The Matrix Community - matrix-lore

The Matrix Community

Matrix Discussion / matrix-lore

Discuss the details of the Matrix lore

Anyway.

3:23

Is it known what the threshold is for the cycle to trigger another reset? The emergence of a Smith-like anomaly? The emergence of a The One? Zion's population perhaps? Also... I never, ever, ever understood why Agents were trying to kill the Keymaker during the big chase. Wasn't he integral to their plan? How was Neo supposed to reach the Architect if they killed him on that truck?

I don't think The Machine's system was connected in the same way that The Borg is in Star Trek: TNG

3:25

Each part, from the programs to the robots in the real had their own little roles to play.

3:26

Kind of like most classified intelligence systems, it's on a need to know basis.

3:26

Also, from The Architect's speech, it seems like The One is triggered when the sum of the remainder in his equation equals 1.

Personally I think it’s just a “If you couldn’t save him from a mere agent, how could you ever possibly be able to meet me”

3:41

Type of problem

That, or Agent "That guy from Future War" Johnson misunderstood his instructions.

3:42

He was no Gray, I'll say that much.

Agents probably have a ranking system

3:43

Wouldn't surprise me

Actually...

3:50

In MXO, rarely, an NPC type was spawned during events, called "Special Agents". Not sure what made them special, but they were hostile to everything, including Machine-affiliated player characters. So maybe Johnson was one of those. It makes sense to me!

In the movies they regarded the “buffer” agents, Upgraded Agents.

4:26

All of them had son in their names

4:31

Johnson was my favorite personally.

4:32

Something about his look, just goes with the whole badass suit dude shtick.

@starschwar why was the keymaker integral to the agents/machines plan again?

The agents just wanted the Keymaker because he was due for deletion

I mean the Agent's purpose is to eliminate anyone or anything that could harm the system.

16:53

Keymaker's an exile.

16:55

since he was no longer being "protected" in chateau mansion by the Merovingian, there was nothing stopping the agents from going ahead an delete him, besides Morpheus's group and the Logos.

So here's something I don't get about the agents in Reloaded

17:58

In the first movie, Morpheus gives us this speech Morpheus: I won’t lie to you, Neo. Every single man or woman who has stood their ground, everyone who has fought an agent has died.But where they have failed, you will succeed.

17:59

Morpheus: I’ve seen an agent punch through a concrete wall. Men have emptied entire clips at them and hit nothing but air.

17:59

In the beginning of Reloaded, Neo comments that the machines upgraded the Agent programs.

18:00

Yet, in Reloaded Morpheus was able to stand his own against an Agent and Trinity stood her own for awhile until she got shot while falling to her death.

The guy that could kick the crap out of an agent one handed who now actually has to fight them because of upgrades

18:02

But Moshimo and Trin can hold their own with them

18:02

yeah that whole thing

Yea, just a little bit of continuity error

18:04

Also, I get why humans are doing grand speeches, because it's what humans do. But why did the Agent do that whole speil "Then you're meant for one more thing, deletion."?

18:04

He's a computer program that's not supposed to have human emotions

Smith had responses like that before he was defeated and freed

Well he was an anomaly though, he'd take his earpiece out and go on diatribes (edited)

21:11

Those oneliners are just for dramatic effect (edited)

true dat

21:14

OR

21:15

maybe they all have some emotion ability for when they need to blend in

21:15

and......help your landlady take out her garbage

Agent Brown: Damnit he's taking his earpiece out, I don't want to hear about his fucking philosophy again Agent Johnson: Beer? Agent Brown: Beer. (edited)

heh

I guess the crux of my confusion is why the Keymaker was considered an Exile / marked for deletion. If he was no longer required, what was the Machines' plan/mechanism for getting Neo to the Architect instead?

I feel like the biggest potential issue with Matrix is the whole "Humans are batteries thint".

22:29

I mean... the machines are having to provide them with nutrients and energy in order to grow

22:29

Only to use the humans bioelectricity as energy to power themselves?

22:29

But I mean, in terms of energy and the laws of energy, doesn't make sense right?

Well, there's three ways of looking at that.

22:31

Interpretation 1: The laws of physics, as we know them, that contradict this arrangement, are merely the Machines' version of them, as told in the Matrix. A system based on rules that may not represent reality. Interpretation 2: In early drafts of the script, the Machines used human brains for processing data, not for power. This makes more sense, and even though it's not said onscreen, I like to headcanon it this way sometimes. Interpreation 3: This was going to get an explanation in MXO, and was hinted at before the shutdown, but never 100% fleshed out. I... can't remember the specifics, but it's strongly implied that there's much more to the pods than we were led to believe.

I mean, i remember they TRY to patch it up or "vagueify" it a bit in the movie

22:34

With the line "combined with a type if fusion"

22:34

But I mean... yeah. I like your 2nd interpretation the best.

22:34

But then, if its for data.... how are the machines powered I wonder.

22:35

*of

I'll see if I can delve into the "what might have been" story synopsis Rarebit posted, pretty sure something about that is mentioned.

Interesting. I mean, I don't see it as a flaw in The Matrix as a whole really since I can gloss over the smaller details to focus on the philosophical ideas and general great entertainment of the movies.

22:39

Like, the concept as a whole holds up well

Here's the notes on the final two subchapters that were planned (content stopped being implemented with chapter 12.1, so there's a considerable gap and amount of sketchiness). There's... some details about the power situation, but fairly vague.

22:41

14.2 - 10/22/09 ogs shutting down pods sunsets getting longer - sati trying to fight it --vs human subconscious --Matrix is more than just Machine code--runs on and is in large part shaped by manipulated human brains --will take a human to free it trinity into source machines let human (player) in player + trinity MERGE --> black room ACTIVATE --> white room RETURN --> Matrix (reset scheduled) 14.3 - 12/3/09 -oligarch control removed -Machines freed from fear of oligarch interference -new humans are raised in new Matrix where they can shape their own surroundings, cared for by Machines -old humans remain in old Matrix

Interesting. Quite difficult to decipher.

22:52

It makes me wonder how far the story would have gone. And when the point of them wanting to stop would have occured.

22:53

Like, they would have had to be careful not to take the story so far that it becomes completely unrecogniseable.

Honestly, I think they jumped the reconizability shark twice, with the Unlimits and the Intruders/Oligarchs. But in a way, that was part of the game's charm. They were diving deep into the "sequel" aspect of the story, going far beyond the events of the films.

I don't actually know anything about the Oligarchs or the Intruders

22:56

*Unlimits

22:56

And yeah, I guess that's fine. As long as the core roots of The Matrix remain.

22:57

Otherwise you might accidently transpose one universe and set of stories into another totally different one.

I'll have to give a history lesson next time we're both logged in, then. Even the "bad parts" of MXO's story are deeply nostalgic to me.

I see. That'll be nice :)

For now, heading out for dinner. Take care, everybody.

Take care, enjoy!

"There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept" makes it seem that the machines werent keeping the humans around only as batteries even in Matrix Reloaded

3:59

they seem to do it to "protect" humankind as a whole, either on the base of some twisted asimov laws, or simply for research purposes (edited)

I think the original plan was for the humans to be used for computing power, but apparently WB thought that would go over most people's head

4:19

Also, if the machines have a form of fusion, why are they using humans as batteries anyways?

i think mopheo is using "fusion" as "symbiosis of organic and matter with the pod to produce energy" not "sun-exploding fusion"

4:20

because sun exploding fusion has nothing to do with organics, and you could just use hydrogen (edited)

4:20

either that or he has no clue what fusion means and is using it as technobabble

There was a side storyline of The Merovingian finding out what's powering Zero One, but it got scrapped and we never found out.

Chapter 9. I think he was sending the general’s “men” to the surface to explore. There was talk of fision rather than fusion. Apparently it’s more efficient.

are humans made out of uranium or other similar heavy elements

5:05

hate it when writers just throw "sciencey" words around

He did find out that there were hundreds of human farms dotted across the planet, when everyone thought there was just the one for the city, but that tied into the Oligarchs I think

@rajkosto you should watch The Expanse if you haven't

i have

that's got some solid sciency shit

when it came out

5:51

well i watched s01 when it came out, was dissapointed and quit, and then when all 3 came out i watched all from start and it was good overall

I only finished season 3 recently, kinda wanna read the books between now and when the 4th season comes out

waiting for s04, also this is not #matrix-lore

true

I mean, 99% of human composition is made up of oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus.

19:18

10% is hydrogen, don’t know if that has anything to do with what you were saying Rajkosto.

19:19

And with the ammount of humans the machines have in farms.... that’s a lot of Hydrogen.

its not pure hydrogen though,

19:22

and theres no reason to extract that stuff from HUMANS when you can do it from water

19:22

which is what you would have to squeeze humans (killing them) to get out of (edited)

19:23

"Combined with a form of fusion" is 100% technobabble that doesnt make sense

Hm, I got no clue then honestly.

19:56

I hated science in college.

guise, guise, as I mentioned in the emu forums, it was just a literary device to demonstrate the symbiotic relationship between man and machine. Youre all thinking way too hard.

23:17

Just cut it out

23:17

23:18

(although rarebit did expand on that in his forums)

But Morpheus said "combined with a form of fusion."

23:19

So you're lead to believe it's some form of nuclear technology

Nah 'combined with a form of fusion' lead me to believe "oh, thank god we invented the, y'know, whatever"

1

23:21

I wish they would have just excluded that line

23:21

Just... don't

23:22

Of moshimo doesn't know, fine

23:22

If the w's don't know, then don't write it

I know they originally wanted the humans to be used for computing power, so maybe that line is a hold over from the original idea.

that still doesn't explain it

23:23

why would you need 'a form of fusion' for processing power

23:23

A fOrM oF fUsIoN

Gotta power the giant computer with something

Combined with a form of perpetual energy,

Did they ever elaborate on whether or not Zero One was the only machine city, or were there several machine cities over the earth?

afaik they only stated it was the first machine city

23:26

I don't think they ever limited it beyond that

I know human farms dotted the Earth, I just didn't know if they were all for Zero one or not

So are there multiple architects of the Matrix?

Not that we have met

The better question is how can there be if we only know of one?

6:14

Also, can there be more human settlements than just Zion that haven't made contact with Zion?

There is another human settlement

Is there?

You play the MMO, the Matrix Online?

No

It was an official continuation of the story.

Ah

So, if they decide to implement any of it into matrix 4, the : Spoiler alert

Just my opinion, but I feel it was kind of dumped on as WB wasn't making any money off of the Matrix by 2005.

Yup

6:23

But that was likely their own fault.

6:23

But hindsight is 20/20

No doubt

6:35

Are there whole colonies of Exiles, or do they just wonder the Matrix?

There are gangs

Do these gangs roam or do they have a settlement?

Both

Isn't Stalingrad one of their settlements?

6:38

Given the fact that the Merovingians used them to take Stalingrad over from the humans?

I can’t remember that particular storyline.

6:43

I seem to remember sentinels taking over Stalingrad from the “exile” sentinels aka commandos

One thing I like to think about is the movie Equilibrium and while it used people who worked on the choreography for the Matrix worked on that film, it does mention a world war and such. As a little mind exercise, I like to wonder if it is possible that whole worlds have been isolated from the rest of the world, but who’s events are happening in the Matrix universe. Much like the events in Equilibrium happening in Matrix Eu

Stalingrad was more of a base of operations for The General and his army of Sentinels.

Can exiles become agents but still stay as an exile?

No. Machines typically want to delete exiles.

I mean, an agent is a functioning, non-obsolete program, so.... by definition they are not exiles?

They are part of the system, and still have a job. They take over RSIs of bluepills to have a presence.

11:30

so, not exiles

Machines may work with exiles, like they have during mxo events. But not employ them as agents.

Hey @here, does anyone remember the name of the guy that was blackmailed with a kiss from Persephone?

Was that the same guy who was the last surviving Unlimit, who wound up serving her? That guy's name was Beirn. If it was someone else, I don't remember.

Likely Beirn. Wiki says he was kidnapped by Merovingian and he was obsessed with Persephone

I got the impression that he was loyal to the Merv by proxy - was directly loyal to Persephone herself. Almost had this implication that she might one day use him to free herself from the Merovingian, make her own power play. That's conjecture on my part, of course.

I got no results for Persephone and blackmail

Is it possible for the agents to have the architect do their bidding?

I think it’s generally the other way around

The Agents were shown to be subservient to the Architect, with Agent Gray reporting to him directly in Cinematic 8.1 and... either 11.3 or 12.1, can't remember which.

22:26

They were also responding to his commands in that audio recording about the early Cypherites.

Why do you ask?

I am just curious as he doesn't seem to do anything to stop the agents in the movies.

0:54

Yet he has the ability to reset the Matrix.

Yeah, I think that’s a plot hole. If agents aren’t trying to kill Redpill rebels, then there is no sense of danger. I haven’t heard any story explanations for agents trying to kill Neo or keymaker

Also, can the architect just delete the agents? They did become a bit overpowered.

He can try. Some have been known to avoid deletion.

How do they avoid deletion?

20:23

Also, can the architect delete exiles who are working for the Merovingians?

The agents kill or delete them.

5:01

Agents flee the Matrix or hide within it to avoid deletion.

How to exiles survive the deletion of a matrix? Also, can exiles be re-programmed to fit the current matrix?

the Merovingian survives the reset of the matrix as well

5:50

he somehow shields the ones under his employ

He leaves the matrix and hides in secure constructs outside the matrix. It like saving on an external hard drive, reloading your PC and then plugging the HDD back in to the pc

Like a USB, the merovingian shoves himself where he pleases.

Image attachment

Image attachment

Are Vamps the most powerful of the exiles?

No

I suppose it depends on how one measures power.

Do exiles' abilities vary from which iteration of the Matrix they were from?

I think that's been the implication, yes

1:52

Vampires and werewolves and bears, oh my

All I can think of are big fat hairy gay men in Club Hel in leather gear.

Me too. In fact those stay on my mind pretty much constantly.

Kinky

They are powerful, but have glitches, which is why they were meant for deletion and decided to hide.

How do you measure the power of an exile?

With that power reader from DragonBallZ.

lol I guess

I dunno, I think it depends on what their original purpose was when they were machine programs

Im always interested to see how people interpret/speculate movies and mixo

15:56

did we see any Vamps in the movies?

15:56

I assume the silver bullet guys were werewolves

Like the angel agents, are probably on par with the agents of the current version of The Matrix.

I mean

15:57

probably

15:57

but

15:57

who knows!?

Yea, they were werewolves. I don't think we've seen any Vamps in the movies themselves.

I cant think of any that are easy to identify lol

Probably in the Club Hel scene?

If there were, thats seems the most likely

Yea

but they were mostly like SM bondage gear - no real vamp gear like mixo exiles - at least not that I saw

Like I said, the movies didn't really touch the Vamps

to be fair, they didnt really touch werewolves either

I guess MxO team assumed that since there were werewolves, there were other mythological creatures held over from an older version of The Matrix.

other than implying

16:02

oh wait

16:02

the movies I meant

16:02

mixo clearly did

Yea lol

lol

16:03

because they had werewolves lol

I like MxO's werewolves a bit more, they had better character design.

they looked like werewolves

16:03

or a version

Yep

LUPINES

VAMPIRES!

weird nightmares and succubi were never in movies

Yea, the nightmares thing were never in the movies

thank goodness

19:54

the game needed more character mob types, and that stuff was sorta ok given the lecture from the Oracle

19:55

but nightmares in the movies would have been sorta absurd - the idea was not to disrupt the bluepills perception of reality

what are the nightmares even supposed to be

20:02

they just look like an enemy from a different type of game

right

20:57

they are from a monster movie or something....

They've should have used something like a shadow person or the hat man.

I thought the guys that fought upside down in the gun check room were vamps

They are

3:54

The only werewolves in the movies was Abel who watching a horror flick in the chateau with the Vampire Cain.

3:55

And possibly some people in the club hel scene.

3:55

Everyone down there supposedly are the merovingian’s exiles.

3:56

So there a large mix of different programs from the nightmare matrix, and exiles from the “current matrix”

And the chateau staircase fight scene. I think there was a WW there too

Most likely.

3:57

Vamps were the only ones who could cling to ceilings and walk on walls.

3:57

So there’s a possibility they were in that fight scene as well.

3:57

‍♂️

3:58

There wasn’t really a big change between the two types of exiles besides the whole walking on walls and ceiling thing.

3:59

Only other type of exiles besides vamps and werewolves that were shown in the movie were Ghosts (The Twins) and Seraph which is an Angel.

3:59

Which Ifound out after the movies.

4:00

Makes sense the merovingian’s people call him wingless lmao.

4:01

I think ghosts were the agents of the nightmare matrix, those twins sure hated the upgraded agents.

uh, Ive never seen a vampire walk on a ceiling in any movie

They stick to walls and crawl

19:10

In some

do they?

19:36

I mean, I havent seen every vampire movie

19:36

but in my mind, thats not standard vampire lore

19:36

No daylight

19:36

sleep in a coffin

19:37

control victims that are not vampires

19:37

drink blood

19:37

immortal unless staked or sunlight or beheaded

19:37

make other people vampires

19:38

dress formally (lol)

19:38

oh and fangs when feeding

19:38

turn into a Bat/shadow/flying thing is possible in some

19:39

Ill even conceed clinging to things, but not straight up walk upside down like gravity reversed

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:MatrixRevolutionsGlock17-3.jpg

File:MatrixRevolutionsGlock17-3.jpg

Inter with the Vampire

20:19

*Interview

20:19

Dude walks upside down in that little tunnel

20:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8_cxk0JOdM

Armand Gauthier

Interview with the vampire - Santiago

20:21

straight up gravity reversed yo

20:22

but that's honestly the only example I can think of off the top of my head

20:23

Also Count Dracula's bitches crawl on the ceiling didn't they?

20:23

in Bram Stoker's Dracula?

20:23

The Francis For Coppola one

its just part of their superhuman dexterity stuff

Personally I thought the upside down stuff in The Matrix was really silly

20:24

the fuck was the tactical advantage there

20:25

Head shots and body shots are just as easy, maybe leg shots are slightly more difficult lol

20:26

Head/body shots might even be easier if they're upside down

nobody ever looks up

If everyone is upside down, it’s just something new. Muscle memory is not conditioned to aim up like that

Nice!

11:22

but Im going to be stubborn and say, not standard vamp lore

I agree. I’m not a vampire fanatic, but never seen them jump to ceilings and didn’t make that connection when I watched the coatroom shootout scene. I just classified them as exiles who can defy certain rules of the matrix, like gravity. But I have no problem with them being vampire-like exiles either.

Agreed. People will read what they want to into this movie (maybe more than any other) so whatever. But if we take the Oracle at her word and ghost/vampire stories are the matrix doing something its not supposed to - these things would be rare, and certainly not an entire lobby or nightclub full.

I also didn't associate that with vampire anything, I just thought they could bend rules, and the filmmakers thought it would look neat

spoon

1

13:16

Also Santiago from Interview with the Vampire walking around the top of the bridge is a neat shot, but unfortunately the rig is really shaky and it didn't come out that well (edited)

13:16

It doesn't look as flawless as stuff like Kubrick's 2001 rotating sets

13:17

I had to rewatch that movie last night lol, that's one of the best vampire films ever made imo

Was a great book as well

14:49

Kirsten Dunst's performance is unreal - she was one of the great children actors. (edited)

14:52

oh yeah, I didnt mean you thought there were vamps. I agree about the rule bending, and I think its possible that they were going for another bullet time type OMFG effect for the movie

I’m sure in the Underworld movies there is a scene where a vampire jumps onto a ceiling because of a werewolf.

21:41

If they would’ve put at least a scene in the matrix where you could see their fangs to show that their vampires, but oh well. (edited)

21:42

In most mythology vampires are able to climb on any surface, Probably for the sake of fighting scenes, they had the walk on walls and ceilings instead.

21:44

Also since those exiles are based on mythology, they are able to do all those amazing feats, not due to them being able to bend the rules, they just were programmed to have those abilities, such as they are programed to have a kill code. (edited)

21:47

Now Agents, they are able to bend the rules because they work for the architect.

The "over my big dead ass" guy seemed vampire-y to me for some reason

22:06

I don't know why I got that impression

22:07

There was never any blatant reference to vamps

22:08

Oh he's supposed to be lupine

22:08

https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/The_Big_Bald_Man

The Big Bald Man

The Big Bald Man (credited as Q-Ball gang member #1) was a lupine exile program who worked for the Merovingian as the chief doorman guarding Club Hel's outside entrance. Contents[show] Biography...

22:09

likely anyway

22:10

haha "Credits: as "Q-BALL GANG MEMBER #1"

I thought that guy was the basis for the Elite Guard type of exiles. Huh.

Yeah, Elite Guard

Elite Guard was created for MxO, or were they mentioned in the comics?

23:48

(the comics were before mixo, right?)

Yes, the comics were before MxO

thought so, I thought the comics came out during the cross-media flurry when the sequels came out

23:50

Animatrix, ETM, Reloaded, Revolutions, etc

23:50

I somehow missed the comics entirely, but fortunately it's now NOVEMBER 2019

23:50

So I'mma grab the hardcover re-issue of the comics

23:51

So crazy, been watching and rewatching Blade Runner since I was a little kid, and November 2019 seemed like an impossible date

23:51

The world would surely have ended by then

23:52

The Roy Batty coincidence is insane

23:52

Sorry wrong chan for that

I want my flying car

12:48

Also, I didnt read that Vampires and Ghosts in the Matrix, as referenced by the Oracle were ACTUALLY vampires and ghosts - but rather the way that bluepills interpreted some unusual thing that is going on in the matrix. Look at the Quote: Every time you've heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you've ever heard about vampires, werewolves, or aliens, is the system assimilating some program that's doing something they're not supposed to be doing (edited)

12:49

that says to me: they are not literally ghosts/vamps, but the system removing an exile that is gone rogue and got caught.

12:50

and blue pills see it as supernatural

12:51

bluepills, in their blue pill ignorance, cant make sense of it (edited)

12:54

but hey, thats what makes me happy, because adding actual werewolves and vampires into the movie seems lame

I mean... it’s a simulation system, why would they just “seem to be” when they could just make them be that. Such as the Twin’s ability to turn into ghost like beings to heal, they can phase through stuff ect. Now blue pills don’t have to make sense of it due to not having a purpose of needing to understand this. (edited)

20:47

The whole reason they were created was the architect trying to “balance” the matrix out after the paradise matrix didn’t work out.

20:52

Just as the agents were re-programmed to be able to bend the rules of the matrix more then they already could (Better dodging, being stronger and faster ect.) The being were programed to be literally supernatural. They were exiled because the nightmare matrix was discontinued, Ghosts, Vampires, Lupines, Aliens, all exiled. The merovingian simply gave them shelter and protection and return they Pledge loyalty to him and are his guards, his subjects, the people in club hel, the residents of his castle, ect.

20:54

Machines can’t calculate something like individual perspective, free thinking.

20:54

That’s why there are red pills in the first place.

20:55

The whole reason they created the nightmare matrix after the paradise matrix, was because the human mind couldn’t accept the peace of the paradise matrix.

20:55

So the machines added fear and conflict, the nightmare matrix.

20:55

All to try to reduce the amount of people who reject the system.

They could have created vampires, werewolves, ghosts in the nightmare version to have something to torment humans with. They could have done a good job leading to the failure of that version.

Well in Smith's little diatribe he mentions the first attempt was a perfect world, which was a complete disaster, so naturally they'd try something with some terror, which went overboard

2:12

Took a bit of time to get the right kind of "misery and suffering" (edited)

2:18

I always took The Oracle's purpose as that. Developing the nuance. When The Architect said she is The Matrix's mother, I always took that to mean she was the one that bridged the gap between machine certainty and human perception that's so dependent on bias and fluid perspective, but more importantly the difference between an animal mind and a machine consciousness

2:19

I always thought the idea was that The Oracle was the one that made the functioning Matrix possible. Bridged the gap between machine logic and the way human minds work (edited)

2:22

I thought that was the reasoning behind her exhibiting so many human idiosyncrasies (edited)

All you gotta do is read the Oracles quote. She doesnt say they are vampires and ghosts, they are the system assimilating a program. Seems fairly cut and dry.

13:45

But this movies does allow people to speculate....endlessly

Couldn't the ghost, vampires, UFOs, etc. all be holdovers from the Hell Matrix?

UFOs ?

The Oracle: Of course you have. Every time you’ve heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you’ve ever heard about vampires, werewolves, or aliens

We need aliens in matrix 4

Ay lmao

Matrix 4 should have at least one pothead

We could see what has become of Choi in the years since buying that mysterious illegal disc from Neo.

The Merovingian owns him and his gang

20:42

Neo was the supplier and never knew it.

20:43

Probably gave them a part of The BIP

Heh.

20:43

I actually do have something along those lines planned for one of my fan edits eventually, wherein that disc has relevance to the overall story. It'll be nonsensical, but that is the intention.

Cool. It’s like the Marvel movies; everything has a greater purpose down the road

Robots vs Kung Fu is meant to be anything but tightly plotted. Without spoiling anything - let's just say it comes out of nowhere, makes no sense, and is quickly abandoned. As is my intention.

20:46

Ducking out for now. Have fun, folks.

The Oracle was simply giving an example of the nature of the Matrix

22:42

“Oh, of course you have. Every time you've heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you've ever heard about vampires, werewolves, or aliens, is the system assimilating some program that's doing something they're not supposed to be doing."

22:43

Because they aren’t suppose to exist in that version of the matrix

22:43

They are anomalies that just happened to escape

22:45

Seraph was an Angel for example, and they did refrence this in the movies multiple times. His golden code, getting called wingless.

22:47

Now they didn’t point out and say that the merovingian’s hench men were vampires and lupines, but they went more in depth with that in the comics and games

22:48

Though being able to walk on walls and the ceiling I think points out they are vampires and the twins being able to phase through stuff and heal themselves the way they do points out they are ghosts.

22:49

So they didn’t make it too oblivious

22:50

Also before shooting her husband's employee in The Matrix Reloaded, Persephone mentions needing silver bullets, implying that he is a werewolf. In behind-the-scenes footage, Persephone herself is described as a "vampire that seeks after emotions".

So Persephone is a psychic vampire

I mean

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_nyZqO0AclU/maxresdefault.jpg like this guy (edited)

Embedded image

22:52

mxo also had succubi

^

Succubi is more of a sexual vampire, psychic vampires feed off of emotions.

Saying that there aren’t any and wasn’t any vampires, werewolves, ghost and aliens, is basically like.... ignoring the whole chateau, highway chase segment.

22:54

And club hel

22:55

Which is properly named

22:55

Lmao.

lol

22:57

Although I'm pretty sure Persephone is a Succubi.

nah the succubi are way more demonic in mxo

She could be a halfling or a very restrained succubi

I think she was probably some unique, higher-level form of program.

She does feed off of emotional romantic energy

Perhaps related to procreation of humans.

23:00

There's a voice clip in MXO's files - unsure if it was ever used ingame. "Wait 'till mother hears about this." Maybe, like Smith, she views herself as being directly created by the Oracle. Or at least, some program of some influence. (edited)

Here's what I want to know. Where did the agents from the Heaven Matrix come from? The angels. Agents were programmed to be loyal to The System, and when they are no longer needed, they are to return to The Source.

23:02

I can understand Merovingian sneaking in programs from the Hell Matrix, but did he also sneak in the Angel Agents?

Why wouldn’t he

I dunno

23:02

Never really thought about it til now

Honestly If I wanted power

23:03

And you were getting rid of potential body guards

23:03

I’d take them too

23:03

23:03

And what sounds better to you

23:03

Hey

23:03

You can go die

23:03

Or come work for me

True

Even a program would chose self preservation.

I'm pretty sure Seraph was an angel agent

He was

23:04

They called him wingless (the merovingian and the guards in front of club hel)

23:07

"L'ange sans ses ailes"

23:07

The angel without it’s wings (edited)

True

Y u guise say 'succubi' for singular succubus tho

mxo had succubi

23:22

more than one

Not you

23:27

'a succubi'

23:28

Talking about Persephone

23:28

lol it doesn't matter

@starschwar ...Persephone’s purpose was revealed around chapter 8 as being a “matchmaker” for humans across the power plant for procreation.

Oh, that's right. Good recall there. Makes perfect sense, really.

Oh nice

In regards to the Angel Agents, why they would choose exile: “The box contains programs that were former agents of the Matrix, angelic versions of current Agents who loved and protected humans. The records they carry tell stories of how they were betrayed by their makers and held accountable for humans’ inherent flaws of self-destruction. How their only command, to love the humans, has damned them in the end. How they blame the humans and their greed for their downfall. That the pact between humans and machines placed humans in machines’ care in exchange for a perfect world. How the sun shown beautiful colors over the Elysian shore of the land and how the machines now cared for humans. The Angels love humans so much that they ensure they will not stray from the perfect system. And how the Angels will free humans by their sword and thereby killing the machines.”

1:38

Seraph is the only known angel agent that worked for the Merovingian. When he deprecated, they ripped his wings off.

What is that from? And are any seraphim other than Seraph mentioned specifically anywhere? (edited)

Isn’t Baelroth an angel?

3:08

@Vesuveus

3:09

He’s a fallen angel, never mind

3:09

But

3:10

He could’ve been a Seraphim

This is a summary of the Pandora’s Box storyline quest, arc 4

Ah

3:10

I mean Baelroth was a npc in Mxo

3:11

One of the merovingian’s people

The boxmaker was in cahoots with the antideluvian to kill the Merovingian, flood and disrupt the Matrix by smuggling imprisoned exiles out of the merovingians Blackwood prison inside boxes that we opened for some reason

Man, how annoying must it be to be the Boxmaker. You have all these cool as fuck Exiles and then there's you

3:23

"Well, I make boxes, that's all I do."

3:24

Of course, it's still better than the program in charge of human waste.

3:24

"Hello, my name is Turd Ferguson."

thats why he turned into the asasssin (edited)

Boxmaker was an encryption and smuggling program, brother to the keymaker.

3:50

Image attachment

when will we get to use that Cryptography ability

Ext version of the Matrix

3:51

Next*

I'm now imagining someone in Matrix 4 requesting Cryptography program training in the field from their operator. He finds a disc with a big "TBA" label on it after a frantic search.

You guys lol

Hope they aren't related to the lockmaker.

0:53

Then that'd be weird.

I think there’s a Maker brother in every grade

Is there a known program that can hinder the hinder the Agents, not useless, but kind of used in order to help get out of a situation? (edited)

In Enter the Matrix game, you could fire automatic weapons at them. They would hyperdodge and that was a means to either throw them out of a plane or flee.

So when you jug into the matrix, you decide what you will load up with you, and Im assuming what clothes you wear.

19:34

So, by the time we get to reloaded, Neo is wearing what essentially a priests cassock. We all know that the costume designer did it to reflect his growth into the One, but what reasons would Neo actually have to choose that instead of commando clothes, or some combat tatical gear?

19:38

Or Rocawear (edited)

Messiah Complex?

22:14

RE: programs that could "hinder" Agents, I halfway remember a kill code designed in Matrix Online that was used in an assassination attempt on the human-machines liaison, Agent Pace. She recovered, but was a lot less friendly afterwards.

@sixxth Neo's basically just a super fast dodgy hand-to-hand DEX build in Reloaded

22:17

no need for armor, only speed, as he can dodge everything (edited)

22:17

he picked something with a cape so he can be more like superman when he does his superman thing

22:17

he uses no guns in Reloaded

It is cape like, Ill grant you that

15:20

But basically, theres no story reason to wear a cassock like thing. Its almost wrong, when you looked how Neo lived in the matrix, definitely NOT a trendy fashion guy

But he gotta look cool!

When Neo stopped being a hacker hermit and started socialising with Zion peoples, he started caring more about how kwl he looked

15:33

He wanted a ruffly cape while flying like superman

I mean, Zion people look like dirt

15:50

so not much in the way of role models there

15:51

and even the other jugged in people didnt look as cool as Morph, Neo, Trinity

What I don't get is why they're wearing sunglasses inside.

BUFFS

15:53

15:53

also

15:53

they gotta look cool

15:53

lol

Well yes, but usually people associate wearing sunglasses inside as an asshole move

not here in NY

15:53

lol

15:54

I mean

15:54

gotta look cool!

15:54

hahah

15:54

yeah, I hear ya

lol

NY and Cali, everyone wears sunglasses, gotta hide yourself, stay in your bubble

15:54

cant let anyone see what youre thinking, looking at

I mean, you also got to hide the blooshot eyes of drug use.

100% (edited)

WHICH FUN FACT, is why Jim Jones wore sunglasses.

and, Im guessing 95% of hollywood

15:56

minus Keanu, because , you know

15:56

hes the one?

Jim Jones was a huge amphetamines guy

baseball players also famous for that during the bus travelling years

I don't know what the street name for amphetamines is though

uppers?

15:57

I dunno

Same here lol

lol

Ugh, could you imagine being on a bus going from game to game?

my tv/movie watching tells me there are uppers and downers

15:58

and no ugh

and it's not one of those fancy new buses either, it's like a decommissioned greyhound buses

right

15:58

not mobile homes

So right off the bat, the toilet doesn't work

lol

Anyways, back to the Matrix lore

LORE

15:59

yeah, Im going with sunglasses contain buffs

I can agree to that

-20pts ballistic damage

15:59

16:00

possible why Neo wore the cassock - best PvP hand to hand gear, but only peak level can wear it

16:00

lol

lol

Maybe sunglasses make it harder for agents to........ nah wait thats dumb

well maybe they do....?

21:05

thats the point....why wear that cool gear?

21:06

instead of blend in?

I know I wear sunglasses at night so I can keep track of the visions in my eyes

Dont switch the blade on the guy in the shades

15:22

oh no

Wat?

https://youtu.be/X2LTL8KgKv8

Corey Hart - Sunglasses At Night (Official Video)

2:28

80s Lore lol

Is it possible to have humans working for the agents within the Matrix?

It was technically demonstrated in the first film, where the local PD was under the jurisdiction of the Agents, who the PD regarded as something like the feds

9:40

Or some higher law enforcement authority

9:40

But I don't think that's what you mean

9:40

juris-my-diction crap, oh cop humor

I think we can handle one little goil

No sergeant, your men are already dead.

Lieutenant, you were given specific orders.

14:07

So Agents took jurisdiction over incidents involving redpills, under the guise of combatting terrorism (edited)

14:08

They really only touched on that in the first movie, it's reinforced by some of the scrolling newspapers during Neo's 'Massive Attack' lullaby searchfest

14:09

Oh and Smith calling Moshimo a 'known terrorist,' "All that we're asking for is your cooperation in bringing a known terrorist to justice." (edited)

14:09

in the interrogation scene, trying to make a deal

14:10

I guess we don't see any more of that facade since there aren't any more bluepill main characters in the sequels (edited)

Are the cops definately human?

Yes, they're fat lard cops that can't jump across buildings,

14:21

There's no reason to have machine cops that are just bluepill level lame imo

14:21

And the 'that's impossible'

14:22

Most of them have never seen Agents in action, because most of them have never been anywhere near redpills at that point in the Matrix history

14:22

Law enforcement being human is essential,

14:22

it's part of our culture

14:23

The machines would have made sure to reproduce that complex social dynamic

14:23

They enforce laws, but they go home to their families after their shifts

14:24

And you have good cops, shitty cops, weak cops, corrupt cops,

14:25

This is something we're all familiar with the far reaching consequences of in our culture. Best to keep them human

Yeah makes sense

fat lard lolol

I like the fat lard that kicked the brick wall on the Dark City set and it wobbled

15:26

When he barely made it when jumping from building to building

15:26

Chasing Trinity

We did see some Bluepills in Reloaded. Like that mom who turned into an agent while still holding her daughter's hand.

15:27

At the burly brawl scene

15:27

I'm sure the daughter "woke up" and thought it was all a dream

15:29

You know what The Matrix franchise need but never gotten?

15:29

A Christmas special

LOLFACEMATRIX

1

y e s

It'll be like the Star Wars Christmas Special, but worse.

1

We had winter holiday missions in MXO. The Oracle had us delivering presents. And fought snowstorm yeti exile things. It made sense at the time.

2

"It made sense at the time." is hard facts yo

I mean that mission was fun

@starschwar Yeti exiles...what?

Image attachment

0:40

Image attachment

0:40

@Deleted User

Aww man, that's sweet

Image attachment

0:47

Image attachment

0:47

The snowmen were helpful, by comparison.

I never understood the point of the snowmen

1:00

I know you could also have snowball fights

didnt the snowmen give you snowballs

1:08

the winter abominations were just big fly monster reskins

Love the snowball fights

https://anchor.fm/vesuveusmxo/episodes/The-Original-Matrix-4-Chapter-1-Discussion-Spoilers-e9hnho

The ’Original’ Matrix 4: Chapter 1 Discussion (Spoilers) by The Matrix Online Revisited with Vesuveus

The ’Original’ Matrix 4: Chapter 1 Discussion (Spoilers) by Th...

Lazarus, Starschwar and I discuss The Matrix Online storyline and speculate which events and characters will influence the upcoming Matrix 4, tentatively set to release May 5, 2021, starting with Chapter 1. Subscribe to The Matrix Online Revisited Podcast on Spotify or your ...

@Vesuveus @starschwar @Lazarus Listened to the first podcast episode of "The 'Original' Matrix 4". Really interesting for me since I never played MxO (largely due to my age and lack of knowledge about online gaming at the time). I'll probably watch the second episode when I wake up. It's a really good format to go via the chapters / subchapters and their respective summaries since it allows me to get an overview of the MxO events, and each of your opinions and analysis regarding what is likely / unlikely to show up in Matrix 4 is very interesting too. (edited)

Thanks. Love getting feedback

2:15

Just uploaded chapter 2

No problem! It was easy to follow and also very enlightening.

2:15

Yep, just noticed it haha. I gotta get some sleep so I'll try to listen to it tomorrow!

2:18

The stuff about Morpheus was very interesting. I think the fact that Jada Pinkett-Smith has a role to play in Matrix 4 (I believe it was confirmed she has been signed on), but Lawrence Fishburne; as of yet, does not, may indeed point to there being some truth to the idea that Chapter 1.3 may be somewhat re-used, perhaps as flashback segments or revealed through dialogue in The Matrix 4.

2:19

Either that, or I was thinking that perhaps the Matrix 4 will have Morpheus "Missing In Action", and perhaps he has taken on a disguised form and does go about a more fundamentalist route of awakening redpills forcefully (i.e. code bombs).

2:19

Which may mean they cast Lawrence Fishburne in future movies that come after Matrix 4 (if there will be more movies after 4), if for example his disguised form is ucovered and his true identity is revealed in post-Matrix-4-movies. (edited)

2:22

The latter would be cool, since it could allow for there to be a big fracture for those remaining in Zion, and potentially paves a way for Machinist / Zionite factions of redpills to exist in the movies.

2:23

Anyway..... bed time

Thank you for the kind words. Recording this stuff with Laz and Vesuveus has been a ton of fun.

matrix's combat was based on real shit which was well-executed

0:36

the coreography was in as much a star of the show as anything else

0:36

another skill Keanu's proven himself adept at acting out

0:37

and that's what I loved about equillibrium

0:37

it let them show off and do something flash and not have to put too much logic into the thought behind it

0:37

I was referencing lightsaber forms earlier when I said I was glad they didn't get into the gun kata forms and details

0:38

too often the viewer gets lost in the details and not the message, and 100% of what you're seeing on the screen is a narrative element

0:39

the agents fighting was extremely brutal and straightforward, just like a machine

0:40

the gun katas were brutal in their depiction of mathmatical logic, reflective of the culture man had achieved when he supressed emotions as depicted in Equillibrium

But hode up, Equilibrium's combat was completely and absolutely impractical

0:40

It was 100% flash

suspension of disbelief is a helluva drug

Suspend it waaaaaay waaaaaaaaaay waaaaay out there

star wars is pretty impractical but I eat that shit up

suspend that disbelief to fuckin Uranus

0:42

'hode up, lemme line up my stupid motorcycle helmet with the other guy's motorcycle helmet so you can shoot both of us at the same time'

0:42

Equilibrium's combat is the polar opposite of John Wick's combat

0:42

That was all put together by actual professionals, not hollywood hacks

0:43

But the combat wasn't my only beef with that movie,

0:43

it was just really dumb compared to the movies I've seen that it did a substandard job of ripping off

0:43

Nineteen Eighty Four, Fahernheit 451, The Matrix, etc.

0:44

Super schlocky

0:44

Taye Diggs tho (edited)

and I liked it for the references

0:44

TD was on point

Is it Taye or Tay

idk but I was Diggin it

He was the best part of that movie

0:45

His acting

0:45

The action was schlocky trash

god why are we polar opposites

And the storyline, good lord

his acting was my only problem with it XD

hahaha

because I was pretty sure he wasn't taking the drug

0:45

right? like, him and the leader dude

0:45

out of the whole society taking the drug, they seemed to be off the hook

Yes, he wasn't taking the drug,

0:45

so his performance was overdone

the performance was still fun

I thought that was done brilliantly

I need to put a re-watch into the queue

0:46

I need to start a fuckin queue lol

Fuck, now I gotta watch "Go" lolol

0:46

First movie I saw Taye Digs in

Star Wars has all those light saber forms. Must be routed in real sword fighting.

I can't lie, my favorite George Lucas film is THX1138

0:55

A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi I liked a lot, but that's it

0:56

I've seen THX1138 like a dozen times at least. But the star wars movies after the original three, man

0:57

Can't stand them at all.

0:58

But, I gave up a long time ago, so I haven't seen like, The Last Jedi or whatever, etc etc

0:59

I had super high hopes for the one Rian Johnson directed, and was gonna see it just for that

1:00

But newp, looked like the same old same old. It's just not my genre apparently

1:00

god damnit, moving to #movies

I like a few parts of the phantom menace, almost nothing in attack of the clones, and I feel like the revenge (return?) of the sith (episode 3) is probably the best of these three prequel films. I think it does a pretty good job regarding Anakin's descent into "the dark side" via the manipulation / grooming by Palpatine.

1:26

I think as a whole, they do add some good plot points to feed into the original 70s/80s trilogy.

Ghost Dad 2: The Phantom Enace

Is it possible for a jammer of sorts who can disrupt communications between an operator and the corespondent on a mission? Can a jammer be a bluepill as well working for the agents?

8:58

Also, technically speaking via an EPO, a counter agent can be written?

Why is the sky blue?

Refraction of the light in the atmosphere. The blue waves of the color spectrum makes it to our eyes.

sati made it blue

bingo

And the Sleepwalkers, that one time.

Piece of the Blue Sky event

2:58

My first taste of in-game LE

Even some of the code became blue!

Image attachment

Neat

2:59

I know some people disable the green code loading screen, but I still have mine turn on.

Disable? madness. It was one of the coolest things about MXO. Hypest loading of all time.

Agreed 100%

Yeah, I disabled it once and immediately turned it back on

was useful back when computers were potato and you wanted to turn off the "green lagin code" for faster loads

True

3:43

But now we all have disposable income for more powerful computers

and anything these days should be able to run 2005 mixo (edited)

madness

4:51

56k and pentium MMX required?

4:51

768MB RAM recommended?

4:55

640k ought to be enough for anybody

Excerpt from The Matrix (1999): Neo: What do you mean, without him? Oracle: Are you sure you want to hear this? Morpheus believes in you, Neo. And no one, not you, not even me can convince him otherwise. He believes it so blindly that he's going to sacrifice his life to save yours. Neo: What? Oracle: You're going to have to make a choice. In the one hand you'll have Morpheus' life and in the other hand you'll have your own. One of you is going to die.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

(edited)

0:59

Okay. So, looking at the above, what if Neo and Morpheus' lives AND deaths are fundamentally linked, as laid out by the Oracle? At the end of revolutions, Neo is, for all intents and purposes, dead. Considering what we know about The Matrix Online, it could be very likely that Morpheus is dead or dies early on in The Matrix 4. But what if Morpheus' death CAUSES Neo to reawaken; to come back to life at that moment. What if Morpheus' death guarantees the rebirth of Neo. As the Oracle said, "One of you is going to die". ONE of you, not both of you. Perhaps only one of either Neo and Morpheus can be dead at one time... I have no idea how this would be explained, but perhaps the Oracle knows a lot more about the nature of both Neo and Morpheus.. (edited)

1:01

Considering that Laurence Fishburne isn't currently signed up for The Matrix 4, I think the idea that perhaps he is dead is likely, and maybe his death has already woken Neo in The Matrix. It could be a good way to reawaken him and link it right back to the original words of the Oracle.

1:04

I also think that perhaps a "vessle" has always been waiting for Neo to be reawoken inside the Matrix - perhaps in the form of a female coma patient (Sarah Edmontons anyone?). The coma patient is essentially a "hibernating" Neo Rebirth Vessel. Perhaps Neo will awaken in this new "bluepill" body, perhaps without any memory of who he was. Jessica Henwick's casting as a "Neo-like character" could certainly be this awakened coma patient (Sarah Edmontons)... (edited)

1:04

Just some thoughts ...

Interesting

15:55

but maybe she was just talking about the upcoming war with the machines

15:55

and there was no notion of after that

Yes. But it would be interesting if the Oracle's words were much more far-reaching and potent, so that they continue to reflect events long into the future.

Especially since she is dead

16:22

Oracle spoiler

wonder what role keanu would have if Neo isnt Neo?

16:49

plot twist - he becomes the new Merovigian villian

16:51

Maybe the one always looks like Keanu, and he will play a previous one, with a young Morph

ooooh

16:51

that's a nice twist

although that doesnt make sense, since Morph never found him until the movie...right?

but there's nobody persistent to recognize him - they all get wiped out anyway

true

they would have no idea, since Zion is destroyed in each iteration whoever picks the cycle back up, they keep re-inventing the wheel

16:52

nice idea, man

go me lol

16:53

it might explain the aging too

the RSI is in usage for a long ass time

hah yup

16:54

so, those who survive know that its all a sham tho

16:54

which is sort of never fleshed out

idea: any leftover survivors recognize him and it all goes to shit

hahah

imagine the sheer disappointment

HEY YOURE WHATS HIS NAME

"it's not different people, it's just this guy all around"

lol

16:55

fun to think about the possibilities

bonus points if the survivors are the free-born ones and the system targeted the operatives first explains how the witnesses didn't like, die

16:56

and yup!!

yasssssssss

no jacks, no way to actually enter the matrix they learn once they see neo in person

16:57

bruhh the sudden shock and disappointment

16:57

dfkhjgjdkg

yeah, like fuck

16:57

srsly

16:57

lol

I'd also looove to see the next movie to explore more around operatives who'd prefer to code? because I so totally suspect people attempting to godmode despite not being the one

16:58

"aye im not running a mile but i'll so totally hijack this hardline and fuck shit up"

could be cool - the movie had me assume it wasnt possible, but mxo makes you think about it

yes!

without the glowy hands I hope

16:59

lol

ohh yeah

hands are glo

more like person of interest, but it's in the matrix

17:00

dfhjgkhdg

the glow hand meme back in the day

lmfao

17:02

truce aftermath: something I'd love to see

my hope is that it takes place in the matrix, I hated the caves stuff

oh yeAH

17:51

they could do snippets to real life

17:52

but I'd prefer the movie's main plot to advance in the matrix

right

I dunno, in the movies, they only go into The Matrix when they have to. The Matrix represent lies, slavery, oppression.

17:58

It's like escaped slaves just hanging out at the plantation they escaped from.

I feel like the Matrix 4 could have more Matrix though.

18:10

I mean, if there is a Cypherite and Machinist rising, or something similar, it's potentially likely that a lot of events may occur within it.

18:11

I hope the writers do bring in some nuance and counter-resistance / zion philosophy into it.

18:11

It will make the universe more interesting.

18:12

but who knows

Agreed, a machinist/Cypherite uprising would be cool to see in Matrix 4

Morpheus basically created the cypherites

True

If the first movie focused on the caves, no one would have been interested. Its the virtual place, and thieir extra abilities in it that make a great movie. Not cave raves and dirt

19:27

Also, it would be like slaves hanging out in a plantation that was much much nicer, cleaner, better food than their hut

People complain about the caves a lot. But those caves and Zion as a whole fit very well into the matrix story. It was inevitable that Matrix 2 + 3 had a large real world focus as the war between the machines in reality and the humans in reality kept building.

really, cypher represented what most people would probably want

19:29

dirty world eating goop? Ignorance is bliss (harp glissando)

lol

I think your wish will be granted tbh @sixxth

please god

I can see the Matrix 4, with the ideas a lot of us have discussed for the next movie, being very Matrix orientated

as @rajkosto said, they needed to cut all the cave scenes out of 2 and 3 and make it one movie (edited)

If the direction that MxO went in is anything to go by, then it should fill you with hope

19:31

I mainly disliked the big war with machine gun robots and rocket launchers

eh, so far the casting for me is meh

It was neccessary for the movie, but I dont find that very enthralling

yeah, the dock fight was asinine

Yup

if EMPs are our only defense on the ship

19:31

why is the dock ok

We need more philosophy regarding reality, human nature, whether human beings prefer to submit as mind slaves, etc.

it was the messaging + amazing wtf effects combined ....never before had a action movie dared to have an underlying philosophy

19:33

oooooh food

19:33

be back lol

Isn’t Seraph an exile?

Yes

From the first iteration of the Matrix, right?

Yes, he was an Angel Agent

21:00

Which is why the Exiles at Club Hel called him wingless in Revolutions.

he could have just been an angel in the perfect version of the matrix......

I did say he was an Angel Agent

21:20

In the Heaven Matrix, agents were Angels

not agent

21:20

well, we dont know that

But that's all we have to go on for now.

I would say we can infer he was an angel, not the agent part

I dunno, he beat Agent Smith many times, I'd figure it would take another agent to beat an agent.

no way to know

21:22

and...he lost to smith

21:22

cookies need love

Well we won't know for sure without additional information

we can infer it, since he was supposed to protect sati....but I agree we didnt see it

21:25

which I guess wasnt really protecting sati, just getting him out of the kitchen so smith could take the oracle over

21:26

because if he was actually protecting sati that seems foolish - (edited)

Well I was talking more about him being an agent or not

all we know is he is referred to angel like - the rest we infer from mxo, but that was written after the movies, and could just be something cool to add to the game (edited)

21:28

maybe they'll talk about it in the next movie, we do see him back at the very end

True

We know angels were agents from the Pandora’s box storyline. MxO is currently cannon, until Lana says it isn’t cannon.

Ah, but do we know if Seraph was an agent?

if there were ghosts and werewolves, it wouldn't be far fetched if there were literal angels

Yes, we know Seraph was an agent. He is mentioned as part of the Angel Agents from Pandora’s box.

I really should've paid more attention to the Pandora's Box storyline

15:07

I thought it was just something else to keep us busy

It was the only "endgame" content the game had

15:25

Lotta work went into it, shame it was all cr1

Well there were The Archivist maps

I mean, I think all that stuff was game candy to tie into the movie and add something cool - Im not considering it part of the lore (edited)

16:17

there were no boxes in the Matrix

The boxmaker was the keymaker brother

Hello I am the Boxmaker, all I make are boxes.

17:22

The Machine have a weird idea of what specialization means.

all of that is game stuff.....

17:28

for me, they just added fun stuff to do, then tied the lore to the movies

The programs were not in literal boxes. The boxes were back doors into the merovingians prisons so the Antideluvian could steal the merovingian’s collection and use it against him. They were transported through the box the same way the key makers keys changed where doors led

Sure, but the Wachowski's gave the player base their blessing in continuing the story, as well as guidelines to the devs on where the story was to go. So the events in the game are inherently connected to the movies (until Matrix 4 retcons them). https://www.ign.com/articles/2005/04/11/the-matrix-online-2

The Matrix Online - IGN

The Matrix Online has been in full swing for a couple of weeks now. To help peel back some of the mystery of the game, writer Paul Chadwick (of Concrete fame) managed to corner Larry and Andy Wachowski. Paul asked them a few questions about their expectations and intentions with ...

I'm pretty sure Matrix 4 will retcon some things, or maybe all of it.

Probably all of it.

Well it seems like Morpheus is still dead.

Still pretending to be dead, you say?

and ol' Merv is supposed to have a big part in the movie.

17:55

It would be fun if exile/program Morpheus was in this first movie and real Morpheus comes back in Matrix 5 and takes him down.

I know it's super far-fetched, but I'm hoping for at least a little nod towards the Cypherites.

17:56

Even a one liner saying "There's a group of Zionites that are trying to reinsert themselves into The Matrix, they pirated a hovercraft, killed everyone on board."

Cypherites are hard to ignore moving forward, if kept cannon

They'll cast Evan Rachel Wood as Ebola in the Matrix 5 and Steve Buscemi as Metalogic for the Cypherite representation.

17:57

Image attachment

I dunno, can Steve Buscemi pull off a villain that's not supposed to be a comedic relief?

I haven't watched it but I think he was villainous in Boardwalk Empire

Cool

18:02

Now the question is, who'd play Toorima/Veil?

Honestly I think most of the Cypherites would be dead by the time of The Matrix 4. The Machines were using them as a means to an end. And Veil would be played by Helena Bonham Carter or Tilda Swinton probably.

Veil was originally designed as a black girl

was she?

So anyone could play her

Kerry Washington then

Embedded image

nice

It would've been nice if Veil had killed off Cryptos and told the machines to go fuck themselves in SOE's MxO.

The Machines probably knew right where their hovercraft was so that wouldn't have ended well for her.

18:08

it would be fun to have a channel/thread dedicated to posting fan castings for our MxO characters.

True

18:09

I'm assuming that hovercrafts has transponders, which is how they know who to let into Zion and who not to let in.

18:09

Working on that assumption, Veil could turn off her hovercraft's transponder before killing Cryptos.

I just assume they had some sentinels watching the ship since Crpytos was a machine program inside a human and they didn't want any shenanigans happening.

Doesn't seem efficient for the machines to do that

Watching Boardwalk Empire right now

18:26

@Ebola Yea, I could see Steve playing MetaLogic

That's a good series, shame they had to wrap it up really hastily in the last season

I liked that series. Can’t remember the ending though.

18:42

The guy with the prosthetic face was a cool character.

Wait, Seraph was an Agent? How did he become an Angel?

In the first Matrix, the Heaven Matrix, Angels were Agents.

according to mxo

It is canon @sixxth

not for me

22:26

it was a game thing until its in a movie

It's unfortunate but I'd put good money on MxO storyline being completely ignored in The Matrix 4

23:07

'The what online? who?'

23:10

But Seraph being an angel employed by the system in an earlier version of the matrix was hinted at outside mxo

23:11

They expanded on that idea but that's not strictly an mxo thing

23:14

I need to rewatch the trilogy, it's actually been a while. I've seen the first movie way more times than 2 and 3. Also I need to read the damn comics

They did call Seraph Wingless in Revolutions

Who was it that called him that, not big dead ass guy?

23:50

Or was it Merv?

It was the two Exiles at the entrance of Club Hel

23:51

https://yarn.co/yarn-clip/7079df88-dc43-4cf5-8dbe-a16d071ed091

23:52

An actual YT video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geuWYhCiFos

Matrix Revolutions (Seraph Vs Guards) 1080p

23:54

Fun gun fact: Shooting two guns at the same time actually decreases your accuracy.

23:55

Which is probably why the Club Hel gunfight took so goddamn long

LOLFACEMATRIX

1

Agent Pace herself once claimed dual wielding to be inefficient. That said. Applying real world tactics to the physics-defying antics of redpills and programs is probably not worth the effort. You think that's air you're breathing, etc.

Granted

0:01

I just thought it was an amusing observation.

0:01

Metalogic only needs one gun, the 12 gauge boom stick

trainingprograms

1

Yeah dual wielding pistols provides no benefit

0:08

Except it looks neat on screen

0:09

But yeah, it definitely works in the world of the matrix

I really wish MxO had a saw off shotgun

0:20

That would've been cool to carry around

they aren't accurate tho, sawed off shotguns exist for cqb situations where 18" + shotgun barrels are just too long to be practical

0:29

that's why bullpup shotguns exist

0:29

full size barrel in a much shorter package

0:30

much better cqb solution

But as we've established, normal rules doesn't exist in The Matrix

0:31

I'm pretty sure the "Rule of Cool" applies to sawed off shotguns

0:31

Of course, this does look pretty badass https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13250547_f1024.jpg

Embedded image

Normal rules don't apply to how your body moves, they absolutely apply to the machines you employ, like guns

0:36

guns, cars, helicopters, etc.

0:37

'off the shelf' guns anyway. Of course there are specially coded things

0:38

lol that's the bullpup shotgun I was thinking of (edited)

0:38

It's used in John Wick, Altered Carbon, etc etc

Nice

Embedded image

I was never crazy about MXO's weapon selection. Some memorable tools from the films didn't make it in.

yeah but you got the REDPILL SPECIAL

The revolvers in particular were odd choices. Trainman and those lobby guards who didn't get a chance to get a shot off - not exactly iconic.

I mean, we did get the Agent Desert Eagle towards the end.

Oh, for sure, I treasured my 1500.

2:09

But no Berettas, MP5s, Trinity's Uzis, etc.

Hey, could we change the gun's name to their real names now? @rajkosto

theres loads of guns using the same model, it wouldnt work to give them all the same name

Hmmm true

They had trinity uzis

18:20

I had the Dual Augmented Redpill Specials. Maybe a silenced version, too

Nah, they had the similar but not at all identical MAC-type submachineguns. MXO/MAC: http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/75/IngramMAC10.jpg Trinity/Micro UZI: http://www.imfdb.org/images/e/e0/MicroUzi-2.jpg Of course, Apoc did use the former so it isn't an entirely unsuitable choice, but it wouldn't be at the top of my list. http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/c/c4/MatrixCobrayM119-3.jpg/800px-MatrixCobrayM119-3.jpg

Embedded image

Embedded image

Embedded image

The FM-1500 was so sweet

Agreed

Merovingian also hinted at Seraph being an angel in the club hel movie scene.

6:15

He said to Seraph, "L'ange sans ses ailes", which translates from french as "The angel without his wings".

Yeah, plus... his name is Seraph.

6:25

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraph

A seraph (, "the burning one"; or seraphim , in the King James Version also seraphims (plural); Hebrew: שָׂרָף śārāf, plural שְׂרָפִים śərāfîm; Latin: seraphim and seraphin (plural), also seraphus (-i, m.); Greek: σεραφείμ serapheím Arabic: مشرفين Musharifin) is a type of cel...

I've grabbed a book called "Like a Splinter In Your Mind" and holy shit, it's a really nice resource to go for some philosophical analysis of the movies

13:30

(and yes I am still working on that lesson plan shhh)

Cool I need to check it out

I really enjoy the lore aspect and hidden meaning behind the characters in the Matrix story and I really want this to continue through this server. I would love to discuss this subject with people in the Matrix.

So about the Oracles saying about "ghosts and angels". The Twins are ghosts and Seraph is an angel in the Matrix but they are AI Programs. But what about characters like Neo who is a redpill but also a Program called The One in the Matrix. Such things are in the redpill and the Oracle's cookies. How far can we carry such things into the role play of MxO Emu I wonder.

As far as you want

Do the machines have cities all across the earth?

I guess so? That was never explained

I allways assumed besides the city they are in in the movie there are also all the real places in the Matrix.

I think @soyboy was talking about machine cities in The Real

23:37

Is Zero One the only machine city, or are there others?

Yeah, in The Real is what I mean

Oh sorry.

In the animatrix, it was shown that the Machines built their own settlement in the Mesopotamia region, so yes they would have their own cities.

Merovingian explores this. There is a cluster of pods and fields that estimate 300 million humans. That’s about the population of the US. World population is 7 billion. They were implying that it might just be the mega city, but narrative got away from this

Or the rest is just NPCs

Yea, there were lots of plot lines that didn't go anywhere or were abandoned. Like Sarah Edmonton, or the true power source of Zero One, etc.

I would love to see some of the abandoned plotlines of MxO fleshed out.

I would love to see any MxO plotlines

We need a PET (Player Event Team)

I'd like to be your pet

I thought I was the pet

You are. That was a test. Good boy.

Thank you mistress. (edited)

I haven’t heard of the Zero One thing. What is it?

Machine City

11:14

Have you not watched The Animatrix?

I’m talking about what you said yesterday, dummy. “Or the true power source of Zero One, etc.”

Oh, well there was a storyline of The Merovingian trying to figure out the true power source of Zero One since it was revealed that humans actually don't produce enough energy to keep the city and The Matrix going.

1

11:32

So they were trying to find this alternative power plant

11:32

But it's a storyline that went nowhere.

Oh that reminds me: the other day, I read something saying animals don’t exist in The Matrix. It’s not the first time I read this theory... So I’m gonna debunk it with a few pictures.

Image attachment

Image attachment

Image attachment

Image attachment

Image attachment

Image attachment

11:46

(Lots of birds and cats)

uhh

11:47

they exist as programs

So I was wondering... do we see animals in MxO?

oracle even says so

11:48

theres only pidgeons

Yeah I know but that theory keeps popping up

11:48

The only animals in MxO I can think of are the Assassin’s flies?

you never saw pidgeys ?

11:48

theyre everywhere

Yeah I meant outside of the birds and usual Deja Vu cat

sometimes conglomerating into a mega-pidgeon

Haha yeah that I remember

11:49

It’s weird we haven’t seen a dog yet

there's a dog in World Record

11:55

Image attachment

2

11:56

I just rewatched it today so it was fresh in my mind

And let’s not forget about toilet face and his flies (edited)

Image attachment

12:16

We beat him with insecticide, the most Matrixy weapon of all.

12:18

Which makes me wonder... is the assassin a program who can control flies or is a bunch of fly programs working together? (edited)

Flies was just his residual self image. Most choose human form. His was a “joke”

13:07

Or it could be the system assimilating his rsi

Dogs are the embodiment of everything good in the universe, so no dogs. Except maybe pitbulls

assassin

1

Hey, Pitbulls are block-head sweeties

.......waiting

16:22

until they decide to eat you

I've taken care of several pitbulls at my business and I've never once been eaten. (edited)

you dont know when the kill switch will be activated

They're not fans of other dogs, but they do love being around humans.

16:23

Pitbulls do not have kill switches.

I just saw a static on animal attacks, 80% are pitbulls (edited)

16:24

Rotwelliers are another 15 odd, the remainder is mixed

We should probably take this to the off-topic chat

lol I thought I was in general

16:24

yes

Pitbulls are very sweet but their mind can't cannot change once it is made up. Like some people.

17:27

Nevermind sorry. That is not Matrix lore.

Anyone know why the Matrix shut down from a lore perspective? Or did it supposedly keep going and it was just the online game that shut down?

The Furious Angels have an awesome movie about the end/shutdown

0:11

It’s on YouTube as “All Good things”

Canonically, the Matrix was never shut down. For the most part, things just went on as normal

Hmm maybe a halfwaypoint answer would be best where the Matrix went on as normal for the blue pills but the red pills were kicked out of the Matrix and the red pills have been trying to get back in to save the blue pills.

4:52

That kind of thing would probably work well for the movie fans and the players of MxO. Maybe there could even be a twist for the EMU. I always want to bring everything together.

What does Zion do with their deceased?

eat them

5:38

cant remove the taste for human remains after being fed them their entire bluepill life

Zion bury their dead and they eat food. Remember from the third movie. Most of them were never bluepills. The red pills eat a synthetic compound of amino acids, vitamins and minerals that looks like a bowl of snot. Remember from the first movie? At least it seams to be what they eat on the hovercrafts. Lol

furious angels lil movie is so good

Yeah it is

slowly raises hand Another newbie question. Were there different classes of hovercraft?

I think so

9:04

The Hammer and Logos seem to be very different for exemple

There’s a wiki about this

9:05

I’ll see if I can find link

9:06

https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Hovercraft

Hovercrafts serve as one of the primary transportation and defensive forces for the city of Zion. They are manned by a mixture of redpills and natural-born humans. The ships vary greatly in size...

and just as you sent that, i figured i'd look at models and oh look, 30 different classes

I always thought it was weird that only 3 people live on the Logos

9:24

In comparison, the Neb had a crew of 9 during the first movie

Smallest ship

Still, seems a bit dangerous to me. What if there is a technical problem while Ghost and Niobe are in The Matrix and Sparks is busy doing his operator thing?

On the old official website, you could visit the Neb room by room, it was pretty cool. A shame Warner closed all the Matrix websites.

I remember that. Is it on the way back machine?

I think it is but you have to use a different URL than the official one (because the official one leads to a Warner page)

10:30

the official one was whatisthematrix.com but I forgot what the other is

Way back takes a snapshot and sorts by date.

I know

10:36

But just like with DataNodeOne it’s tricky to find full pages

10:39

There also was a very good hacking game called hackthematrix.com

I’m familiar with hackthematrix , but could never figure that site out

https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/WhatIsTheMatrix.com

WhatIsTheMatrix.com

WhatIsTheMatrix.com was the official Matrix franchise website until it was taken down sometime in October 2009. From late 2000/ early 2001 onwards the website redirected to the equivalent page on...

10:48

Pretty cool page. No link to the Neb though.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040614184011/http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/vtour/vr_swf/work_02.html

16:17

Okay so it’s only available on computer with flash turned on. I still can’t access all the things sadly.

16:18

Fun fact: ZionArchives.com was the name of my website back then

code_frag_01

1

Damn, all the comics are still available on there.

16:29

A lot of missing links sadly

Anyway I was asking to make sure that I did proper Justice to the hovercraft using the D6 system

The conflict in MxO is based on Neo's body not being recovered and some of the programs wanting to be free?

I just wonder with the Matrix 4 if we will get another official interactive website?

7:59

Kind of a shame WB seem to have let the franchise rot for as long as it did.

does anyone have any decent interior shots? that archived site doesn't seem to work well for me.

Interior shots?

sorry, it's late, i meant deckplans

8:36

but I found what I was looking for

How fast would you say hovercraft can go? From what i can figure based on size and various movements, it looks like they are around 300kph

Depends on the size of the ship, really

i was thinking the same as well as the number of pads

22:25

and their alignments

I wonder if there's any like one or two person hovercraft

They were commercially available before the war

I meant during the Matrix timeline

23:25

Like during The Trilogy time

I doubt it since everything was going towards teh war

It’s funny that the machines also created the hovercrafts. They probably give them to the 23 people chosen by the One at the Source. (edited)

13:29

I would love to see what happens exactly if the One choses this door... does he pick friends or random people?

The Architect says he has to pick 23 people from The Matrix.

13:30

So his friends are fucked, no matter what.

Also Zion is consanguinity land when you think about it

So at some point, incest had to occur?

Pornhub is their official guideline on mating rituals so I’d say 95% of the time

Niobe is Morpheus’ step mother

13:38

16 female and 7 male. Cousins are bound to fuck each other someday.

I forgot that they can just recruit new people in The Matrix so it probably means less consanguinity.

Kissin' cousin!

did anyone ever do the math on whether this whole thing actually works out

14:25

every cycle between the first and the next one is presumed to last about 100 years

14:26

so at the beginning you got 23 young people, probably late teens to mid 20s

14:28

they conceive a lot of children who need about 15 years to sufficiently grow up to do the important jobs in zion, rebuilding, defense, anything

14:29

thus you only got about 85 years left til the next one emerges. so even with all the liberations from the matrix is it even possible to build up such a large civilization in that short amount of time

Im pretty sure it's more than 100 years.

14:30

They have to believe they are the first humans freed from the matrix

14:30

and then build an entire city

14:30

its probably 200-300 years

100 years was what i read on most websites, thats why i was assuming this timeframe

Unless they got help directly from the machines, 100 years would not be enough time to build Zion as we saw in the movies. So I'd say those websites are wrong.

it wouldnt be too difficult to pretend that most infrastructure (which the machines might provide) was left over from pre-matrix post-war generations

14:34

some group managed to hide underground for a while, eventually they were caught, machines didnt bother destroying stuff cause they won anyway etc

Also, why 16 females and 7 males?

enough reproductive opportunities without any need for sexual competition

So, kind of a Mormon thing?

14:38

Plural wives!

kinda yeah

I bet that never ended in jealousy

thats why i specified the decreased need for sexual competition

14:39

if every guy can bang two women and two guys can bang three, jealousy becomes less likely

Fair point

14:40

Speaking as a 35 year old man, I would not have the energy for it. So yea, the people picked at the end of the cycle would have to be late teens, early 20s.

furthermore i believe the machines wouldnt just let the one pick anyone. i mean with programs like the oracle they can predict human behavior in a precise way so that jock whod take every woman for himself would most likely stay in the matrix forever

I mean, The Architect did tell Neo he was to pick from The Matrix, 16 females and 7 males.

true but first itd have to be people who can handle reality, second theyd have to be physically and genetically suitable to produce enough healthy offspring, third theyd have to be psychologically stable in order to survive in dire circumstances

14:44

so there has to be a certain amount of preselection going on OR the one is just able to do that on his own

14:46

but just freeing a couple of randos and then hoping everything goes well doesnt seem like a machine thing to do

True

You thing the Ones impregnated a few ladies before dying? Then there’s a lineage

I dunno

I just thought about how the first one who woke up was able to wake himself up and survive. Did they say anything about that?

no, all we can do is speculate

20:50

if you read the first draft of the "reloaded" script (assuming of course that aint a fake) the machines certainly arent above training humans

20:50

same with "goliath"

20:50

so maybe just have a program teach the first one everything he needs to know

20:52

then wake him up and have a primitive zion already built

Still how would he have survived from drowning with all his muscles still being useless?

theoretically the machines can tell him the whole truth cause if he acts up humanity is screwed anyway, so i guess upon exit they give him all the medical treatment he needs instead of flushing him down

21:20

its just important that the freed people dont know about the truth

Well that could be but why freing the first one in the first place?

you cant be the integral anomaly that symbolizes all rejections of the matrix without rejecting it yourself

22:01

also the one is supposed to lead the newly awakened, would be stupid not to have him in the real world

Oligarchs were kicking it around some-wheres in the real world too, the man made A.I. (epos) from Let it all fall down were able to access real world visual feeds from inside the Matrix. 3rd Party intervention is certainly possible prior to the Oracle taking over the show. The old man in Sword of a different color was on his own & totally unaware of Zion, the last human colony, could have potentially been the first to free the One. Then there's the theory that the Merovingian was the first "One". But, I don't think he counts towards the Oracles 6 count, though I do happen to believe he was responsible for crashing the paradise version of the Matrix

The Merovingian was the OS of the second Matrix. He wasn’t The One just because Persephone said “he used to be like you” to Neo. She meant “to be in love” not “to be The One”. (edited)

10:29

He could have crashed his version but I think the humans rejected it like with the first version.

How do you know he was the OS of a former Matrix?

Didn’t he said that in a critical?

11:04

That’s in the wiki but there is no source

Image attachment

I have all the criticals logged, but would need it narrowed down.

11:08

Good memory, Ouranos!

Bigger question: what was Persephone’s original purpose?

11:13

I feel like she either was responsible for human reproduction or she was made to understand the concept of love

Reproduction

11:14

I have that log set aside or posted somewhere

I tried to find every original purpose for exiles: Merv: previous OS in the second Matrix Seraph: Angel Agent in the first Matrix Persephone reproduction program in the second Matrix The Architect: ergo, it’s all in his name Oracle: program who understand human and unbalance the equation The General: chief Sentinel Flood: subroutine of a larger program The Assassin: waste recycling business Okaami: second Matrix Werewolf Malphas: second Matrix vampire Smith: agent then virus Keymaker: door opener Twins: second Matrix ghosts Sati: makes sunshine That leaves us with the Trainman and Effectuator...

Written by exiles?

I don’t understand the question

Maybe?

What’s written by exiles? I’m confused

12:58

Sorry I’m not a native English speaker so sometimes I have bugs

Sorry. Maybe exiles wrote trainmand and Effectuator out of necessity

Ooooh I see ok

13:06

They both seem very powerful for having been created by Merv though

13:07

Trainman basically can create his own construct between the two worlds. He must have been in a similar position as a program.

13:07

Effy is tougher the guy can do anything

13:08

He can create constructs, doubles, change human RSIs, teleport... I bet I’m forgetting a few other (edited)

You seen the trainman video?

Nope

Yeah but it didn’t really answer any question I had

Link to the trainman video?

https://youtu.be/1M_OSx8TmZU

Matrix Trilogy Trainman & Mobil Ave F!nally Explained

Thanks

so can anyone explain to me the purpose of the merovingian deleting the old shell of the oracle?

14:53

i mean shes still there, he did nothing but change her appearance

14:53

so is he basically just showing off some kind of power?

The old actor died and they needed some excuse

Didn’t Rama Kendra provide the oracle termination code to merv?

indeed he did

I never heard of that resulting in an assassination attempt

but still im curious if the whole thing has any deeper meaning. doesnt seem like the wachowskis to just make up some random excuse

Did she change her shell (and code) enough to render the kill code unusable?

i dont know

15:01

according to the wiki the kill code was just for the outer shell

15:02

which as i said seems completely pointless

15:03

other than merv maybe swinging his dick around

I always thought it was odd that the Merovingian didn’t retain sati. He makes a deal to transport a program to go to his target that he intends to kill

wasnt the deal just about smuggling sati into the matrix

15:07

just so shes there, no protection or anything

15:12

honestly i think its just a stupid deal "ill get your kid into the matrix just so i can say to the oracle: nananananana you look different"

Yeah, but he’s good about funneling programs into his prison

true

Nice video, but I disagree with more of the conclusions than I agree with it.

Which conclusions?

Namely that Mobil Ave is a wireless hub. Also the reason that Neo ended up in Mobil can be better explained than than mere coincidence or accident.

The Persephone Screenies you sent me Vesuveus

Image attachment

19:30

Image attachment

19:30

Image attachment

19:30

Image attachment

19:30

Image attachment

As far as the Merv. I don't disagree with the discovery that he was the operating system for the 2nd version, I believe that 2nd version to have represented a hellish version, perhaps the middle ages as the Merovingian Dynasty emerged after the fall of the Roman Empire. The reason I used the Term responsible is because the Devil subtext are obvious and Lucifer was an Angel who fell from grace. The Garden of Eden crashed because the serpent convinced Eve to eat from the "Tree of knowledge". The Trafficker of information's wife here is Persephone, who has the famous undefined line "He was once like you". Whereas Lucifer's first wife is Lilith, who was said to be Adams first companion who rebelled from God & then replaced with Eve created from Adam's side. So I suggest that the Merv being "like" Neo could simply mean that desired people could see beyond the facade of the simulation, or paradise, which in turn crashed it, as the apple of truth did for Adam & Eve. We know that the Architect is not opposed to re-purposing programs & it makes more sense to me than saying the Merv was once the integral anomaly with all the Hellish references.

As far as the Mobil Ave hub being wireless, I never really understood why the Matrix has a wireless broadcast despite all of it's users being connected through a direct hard-line. That said, the Trainman brags about his knowledge of the machine mainframe in the Matrix Online, so I wouldn't doubt that he has real world hardware, which was why I showed the USB hub as an example. The point of the term wireless is specific to how the programs & Neo connect to it. Because the definition of a hub mentioned the ways it is unlike a router, but their interaction is likely a wireless connection.

Machines communicate wierelessly.

19:59

Probably jacking in through that.

More specifically with regard to Neos connection to Mobil ave, I didn't say it was a coincidence or accident, I quoted the Oracle saying that the experience should've killed him & brought up the Catholic definition of limbo. If the Matrix is Hell & The Source is heaven, Neo landed in between, hence Mobil Ave

20:05

@thkaal yeah, especially with the General being snuck out of the Matrix via Mobile ave. If it was a hardware location in the real world mainframe, I imagine that would've been a problematic escape.

I just think the movies actually answer the question as to why he ended up in mobil ave, by explaining how the system works. When is program is determined to either no longer fulfilling its function, or become obsolete, it is returned to the source to be deleted. Since Neo, as we all agree is a part of the System , and is no longer fulfilling the purpose of the One, he is sent to the Source (upon his wireless connection from the Real after waxing squiddies) and makes the (probable unconscious) choice to not be deleted, to which he is sent to Mobil as any other program who choses not to be deleted does.

20:28

FWIW, I am not dogging your video at all. I just happen to think there is a sound explanation in the movies.

We could talk about how the Trainman facilitates a system of choice for the Programs? Or the reason why the Merv actually is jealous of the Oracle.

For the record, I'm not advertising Catholicism or any single theology & prior to working on the video, I thought Limbo was a greek mythology reference, turned out it wasn't. I personally didn't think how Neo got there was some big mystery either. Yet I do see the question a lot & I try to base all my theories on dialogue or visuals that can be pointed to somewhere in the Matrix media. That's to say, I don't think I said anything that went against what the Oracle says about it when I quoted her, but rather illustrated parallels. Potato, Po-tat-o? I believe that part of what makes the Revolutions experience unique is that the audience has to chose what things mean for themselves, because many things are not defined out right so there is still something to talk about. And you brought up a couple topics to discuss that are rarely talked about. Your first question Vesuveus, Starscwar, & myself were just talking about in regard to the Merv, not sure if he recorded it, but since the Trainman takes orders from the Merv he is certainly a key part of that situation. I've got some questions about it though.

22:41

We also talked about the Mervs beef with the Oracle, now if I'm going to go off dialogue alone:

22:42

"The Oracle: What do all men with power want? More power."

theres a fine line between keeping things open and unsatisfactory writing

0:55

while i can enjoy the openness in some regards i also believe that some parts deserved a bit more exposition, rather than just throwing keywords around and leaving anything else to the viewers imagination

0:56

for example i wouldve enjoyed a deeper look into seraphs past. more than just "hey look its wingless" and smith stating they fought a couple of times

0:57

same with the whole oracle - shell thing, a few more hints about mervs motivations, goals, what purpose this action serves to him etc wouldve been nice (edited)

1:00

the wachowskis built an incredibly complex, yet still somewhat organic-feeling world so it just wouldve been interesting

Seraph was supposed to get a game, but it got changed to Path if Neo

1:35

It probably would have explained his backstory.

1:36

This is why I enjoyed MxO so much. Each character got fleshed out.

unfortunately i didnt play it back then

I would've liked to know more about Seraph for sure, got to fight him on Vector & I basically spammed health boosts until he killed me, but it was worth it

Ah weak, I never heard Seraph was supposed to get a game. That could've been really interesting

4:01

As janky as it was, I loved Enter the Matrix. Didn't care for Path of Neo at all though

How old was Trinity when she took the redpill? They clearly say they usually don’t wake up people as old as Neo but she also hacked the IRS probably as an adult or at least a teen (edited)

13:18

All the potential redpills we see in the Oracle’s apartment are kids (edited)

13:19

Also in the comics we learn that Morpheus was a kid too when he made the choice

She could've hacked the IRS D-base as a redpill

cellphone

1

I'm pretty sure she hacked it as a Blue Pill, her doing it at a young age probably showed how adept she was at hacking and it probably also revealed the Matrix to her.

Or maybe she hacked it as a redpill to get information from the machines. I could see that happening

13:43

Remember, Neo is saying this as a bluepill.

why would Red Pills need IRS information >_>

No, I'm saying that's the lie that the machine fed to the bluepills

13:44

Or maybe the machines hide their information in plain sight

13:44

It would really help if we knew what age they normally woke people up from

13:44

The Kid seems like High School age when he woke up?

13:45

Middle to High school

16

13:51

Guessing on Morpheus’ appearance in the comic, 12

13:51

Mouse was probably 18, assuming he was legally old enough to join up

Also, we don't know when Trinity hacked the IRS-D base. Like I said, for all we know that's just a cover up for Trinity stealing machine information from one of their servers.

Yeah, I always considered her a Redpill when hacking irs.

13:52

Not out of the question she was a coppertop

I always considered that her hacking the IRS was what caught Morpheus attention

I think a bigger question is cipher. Trinity out ranks him. Assuming she was a crew member before him, she may have been on board when they awoke him

Another question is, what made them target Cypher to be awoken? Because he seems to regret that decision.

I’ve heard he was the mind that had trouble letting go

13:59

Cipher watches Morpheus repeat waking up someone too old and resents him. Final straw

I think the implication is that he was older like Neo when he was awakened

Woke up, hated it, clinged to trinity

14:01

Saw she had feeling for Neo, other final straw

So he was an incel

Only onboard the ship

14:06

I got the impression Zion was an orgy

14:07

Plus, he had alcohol

True

14:15

Weekly cave rave parties

ZION! HEAR ME!

14:27

"Get off the stage!"

14:27

"You're not funny!"

"Zion was an orgy" noaice

Morpheus tried to awaken other people he thought were The One, right? Maybe without Cypher’s knowledge he was one of those potential Ones?

14:30

I don’t remember where I read that Morpheus tried with a few other people before he found Neo

"I stand before you, truthfully unafraid, why!?" "Liquid courage my friends!"

:D

Chapter 1

If Joe Patoliano can get into Matrix 4 as Cypher, how can his character possible be revived if at all?

Only in a flashback, that's about it.

2:06

Cypher is ded

It would have to be something that happened off screen that wasn’t implied. Like while preparing to jack himself in for the Smith meeting, he wrote a simulacrum to operate in the matrix when he wasn’t jacked in. Then through Hollywood magic, it carries his memories like the Morpheus simulacrum.

Daddy Cypher ❤️

Ive seen several articles that he is trying to get into M4 - hes texted L Wachowski about it, but hasnt heard back lol

13:13

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2495020/one-original-matrix-star-has-been-asking-lana-wachowski-to-join-matrix

One Original Matrix Star Has Been Asking Lana Wachowski To Join Mat...

Bring it on.

"ayy write me in fam -pants"

lol

16:27

in that ratty voice

16:27

Bet you didnt see this coming DIDJA

thats why I think Bill Burr should play a new Cypher

actually, he would be PERFECT lol

16:41

good call lol

16:42

the helicopter bit is the epitome of stand up comedy for me, perfect in every way

Dude I can absolutely see Bill Burr doing so many Cypher scenes

16:46

"I wish I could be there, when they break ya, so right then you'd know it was me!"

its perfect

"If you'da told us the truth, we woulda told you to shove that red pill right up your ass!"

"'The One'. huh? I mean, look at this guy, looks like his baby pod fell off and hit a few branches before the Machines picked him up. Got only one facial expression. Can you believe that? Flies around in a skirt... thinks he's Superman or some bull shit. Mother fucker gets told his whole reality is fake and all he can say is 'Whoa'. Like, hello here Morphy, put him back. This battery has lost his charge here! I mean, hell, just go ahead and put all us back why dontcha?"

heh

17:04

How can he be the One if hes DED

neo truly does come across as a bit inept (edited)

"So this guy, Neo, he can like... jump into people's bodies and explode them. Completely wipe them out from existence. He does this ONE FUCKING TIME. NEVER DOES IT AGAIN. Why didn't he just go full Pac-Man on all those Agent Smiths, huh? Why didn't you think of that one genius?"

I wouldn't be surprised if a matrix 5 or prequel where Cypher could come back.

I think it'd depend on how well Matrix 4 does.

The Matrix 4 is just too far into production at this point, there is no room for Cypher.

0:02

We do know that another movie is being penned.

0:02

But we don't know if it is a prequel or not.

I mean, is the other movie even in production?

It is currently being penned.

0:06

So it is basically the backup plan.

Penned I C what U did there

That wasn't intentional, lol.

0:09

I forgot the guy writing the other Matrix movie's surname is Penn.

Can anyone access Zion's archives?

4:12

Also, did Stalingrad have an archive before it feel?

I think Zion captains only. So if a crew member requested, they would present their request and it could be accessed or denied by Captain.

4:25

Stalingrad? No mention of it, but very possible

https://youtu.be/GtKonhM10IU

The Matrix: 15 of Neo's Secret Powers

4

1:15

I like that people are out there making Matrix content, but this one is just downright silly.

Well with the announcement of Matrix 4, it is bound the draw in new people. This happens a lot in Star Wars.

LOLFACEMATRIX

Ya I saw that one had to put my steel toe boots on in the comment section. He don't want it tho

I loaded up Aikido and activated Serene Calm before sliding into comment section, lol

1

3:36

I half expected the video narrator to mention Moshimo

He's on that MattPat lemme just say wild shit for the views nonsense

He would have been better off claiming Neo had 3 secret powers. The one about the explosions had me laughing out loud!

Image attachment

The FuckPat, again?

9:27

The world is just so unfair, letting shit spew like that

I liked it. Great video!

In the previous incarnations of the Matrix, was the one never found given the architect reset it?

the one was necessary to reset the previous matrixes operating under the premise of choice

23:44

basically: human rejection of the matrix will eventually destabilize the matrix, leading to a system crash once a critical mass has been reached. thus the one was created as a representation of ALL rejections of the matrix in the respective iteration, most likely comparable to jesus carrying the sins of the world, the one is carrying the rejections of the matrix of all humans.

The matrix was reset because the previous anomalies chose 'option A'

he is then sent to the architect where he needs to choose what boils down to accepting the matrix. thus, since he represents every rejection of that iteration, which is then turned into acceptance, the acceptance level of the matrix goes back to 100%, the system is stable again, implying a reload

23:46

this is how i understood it at least

The point that I was making in the comment section of that video is that the Architect owns the failure of his 1st two versions & mentions nothing about the one being propositioned with "choice" that part doesn't come into the equation until the Oracle gets involved. She created the system of controlled opposition, prior to the Oracles assistance there wasn't option A or B, just crash is how I read it: (edited)

23:47

Architect: The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art – flawless, sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another – an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother...

23:48

Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probablility of disaster...

23:48

Architect: The function of the One is now to return to the Source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which, you will be required to select from the Matrix 23 individuals – 16 female, 7 male – to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which, coupled with the extermination of Zion, will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

23:50

I've always counted this progression as Matrix Beta 1 (Paradise), Matrix Beta 2 (Nightmare), then the Oracle comes in & Matrix 1.0 (Start counting Neos)

bUt hE cHaNgE aRkiT3cT c0D3!

2:17

@David T. Gregory , very well put!

thank you

silly q

8:02

why was ghost well nicknamed ghost?

Not much of his backstory has been fleshed out.

"fleshed out" because he is a Ghost and has no flesh. smdh

I like the Ghost character, however have ZERO interest in his backstory.

I thought everyone got to pick their own hacker handle... "my name is Neo" & all that jazz

only thing i know is that hes a good shot and has somewhat of a sibling relationship with trinity

not by choice

15:13

which may be a clue as to why it is Ghost

oh and hes into philosophy

and onanism

lol

15:31

"Hey Ghost, the Neb is in danger, we need to jack in right no...I SAID JACK IN!"

It is True. Ghost is executive & chief of the Holy Friendzone

Worse, he even friendzones others - apart from getting friendzoned (edited)

I think he made an exception for Agent Pace

21:37

It’s canon

I recall him being a boomer to her too

Do humans reproduce inside of the matrix ? how is population control done, Ive never understood

Their sexual experiences result in children, however, a program merges their dna across the power plant. Uncertain if it’s sperm and egg or dna implanted in embryo. I believe Neo and Trinity are cloned and grown as they are near perfect results of genetic engineering and their dna seamlessly interfaces with machine code.

hyperjump

1

So Persephone was originally a care taker program... does anybody know how the Merv appeared in the real world off the top of their head? (edited)

I have heard version 1 or version 2 Operating system

Wasn't he moving around in the real world at one point tho? During the New Zion/machine war

I don’t know. He was holding the strings over the general’s sentinels

Right so we could just be talking about all of the events happening with him still inside the Matrix giving the orders

Image attachment

Not buying it.

thats just an intel cpu on its back on the mobo

the LGA just holds it back, this way the CPU has freedom

16:06

fuck that socket

16:07

contacts were meant to be FREE!

So and trinity were the summation of machine testing human biology. They designed their DNA to interface with machine code seamlessly.

15:20

Neo received the prime program which granted him powers he could “unlock” and to reload the Matrix. Trinity received programming as well. Oracle wrote the Biological Interface Program and likely installed it in trinity during “birth” because she had fallen in love with Neo in previous versions.

15:21

I think when Neo revived Trinity, some of that BIP programming imprinted onto Neo’s Rsi because after that, he was able to stop sentinels.

15:23

When trinity died, the Assassin was supposed to recycle her body and reported that another machine did something to her body. Starschwar speculates that the machine could have extracted the BIP programming from her cranial jack.

15:24

I think her body was never recycled, but anyway, Assassin gets targeted for deletion and rebels corrupting everything, kills Morpheus and then gets killed by players.

15:26

Fast forward to chapter 7, I think 7.1, we see an oligarch, I think Halborn, watching video of Neo dealing with Dues Ex Machina to defeat Smith and establish peace.

15:27

Fast forward to chapter 9 and he enters the matrix looking for the BIP and tracking down Neo and Trinity’s known locations in the Matrix, as if there is remnance of the BIP in the Matrix.

15:28

The oligarchs want the BIP so they can seamlessly transfer their consciousness from body to body, androids, genetically modified humans, whatever. Because they have figured out how to basically live forever in the singularity between man and machines.

so the point of the BIP is basically to create human/machine hybrids?

15:31

programs that can hop into human bodies and humans that can enter machine bodies

Yeah, I think so, lol

it would make sense with the oracle planning for peace all along, having hybrid entities, creating a new race combining elements from both factions...creating empathy...all that would certainly facilitate establishing a lasting peace

15:33

kinda like in "matriculated" or whatever that short film was called

15:35

i wonder if neo being a subject of those DNA experiments as well explains how smith was able to control banes body

I don’t know what the Oracle’s motives are. I think that’s the best kept secret in the Matrix Universe.

15:44

The Archive mentions Bane and Cryptos as failures in this process.

15:44

Probably because their bodies weren’t designed to run the program.

makes me wonder how many others got the BIP

Hardware has to be compatible and only machines can do that, as if events of chapter 9

makes sense

16:26

thank you for the explanation!

@Vesuveus I didn't get the impression that Trinity had been reincarnated or a repeat in any previous versions. The Architect: "Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication – a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific – vis a vis love."

3:33

My guess is that Oracle knew they would be in love because they were designed for each other. Twin Flame Hack or however you want to call it, but that this was a new thing that hadn't been done previously

Makes sense. I feel like the architect would have seen that coming

It's kind of a story of Man makes Machine, Machine makes it's own version of man

8:30

Both rebel until some ONE has to stop the cycle and make change

so...ive read that in mxo it was speculated that there are about 300 million pods on earth

23:42

wouldnt that make the matrix only consisting of a single city and its surroundings more likely?

23:42

i mean theres people claiming that you could house our whole worlds population in texas

23:43

and considering the extreme population density seen in the movies it might make sense

Where did you read this at?

https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Malphas

Malphas was the leader of the Blood drinkers (vampires), and henchman of The Merovingian. His Lupine counterpart was Ookami. Contents[show] Biography Insurrection against The Merovingian He, along...

23:48

im simply wondering why we never see the movies heroes travel to other cities

FWIW that site is chock full on inaccuracies and non-facts.

hm i didnt know that

In 1999, the world's population was 6.035 billion. So I just always assume that's how many people are in The Matrix.

Julio Ortiz Mxo archive Summary makes several references to the 300 million figure

Image attachment

6:13

@69.5 I agree, many of the fan sites have spotty "facts", I hang out here, because I feel like the emulator/forum crowd had the most consistent information. Ortiz archives seemed to be pretty solid though. I think @Vesuveus & @starschwar discussed this figure in one of the podcasts

Morpheus was at Heathrow airport. If the matrix emulates our real world, then that’s London. I think the setting is a gray area left vague intentionally

6:19

NYC 2018 had 8.3 million.

6:20

Dallas Fort Worth 7.5 mill

6:21

Us population 328 million

6:21

Still, 300 mill is not 7 Billion

The Merovingian figure is also defined by what the General's scouts "found" so one could argue that there could be more towers somewhere else... flip side... someone was going hard in the Solving The Battery Problem comment section I believe & went in on the entropy violation of thermodynamic law stuff & when I mentioned that the Mxo population figure was not in the billions but in the 300 million range that ended the debate

I think we talked about this in the chapter 7 or 9 episode.

6:37

If the machine city is in the Middle East and Zion is below it, but hovercrafts were made in USA, then there must be some cross continent travel.

6:38

There could be multiple clusters of towers or multiple machine cities. It’s vague.

6:39

Maybe the battery powering is a phase and this is the level of survival they are accepting until they reloaded their nuclear reactors.

6:40

Maybe the 1st war was so bad only a few hundred million humans were salvaged

The hovercraft's could have also been made in the USA, sent to the war at 01 for battle & never returned home. I also noticed a very wide variety of years with the Neb being the oldest at 2069 while the Hammer's plaque read 2111

Image attachment

I mean the machines could have faked those plates

I think it's implied/said that all of Zion's weaponry is what the Machine's designed for them to make to allow the Machines to be able to kill them easily (the Reapers in Mass Effect also used this plan)

i think major cities being insular would solve many problems

12:08

like: there are the important cities megacity, london, tokyo...but theres nothing inbetween. and once you travel outside of those areas you just disappear and reappear with fake memories of having driven through the countryside or flying over the atlantic for the appropriate amount of hours

12:09

cause if theres really just 300 mil people in the matrix - and you still got post war scarcity of resources in the real world - it just wouldnt make sense to accurately simulate areas of little interest

I mean, in The Second Renaissance, the machines went forth and conquered the world. At some point, they had to settle more cities than just Zero One in the Middle East.

the question is: whats the endgame for a machine? enough space to reproduce?

14:02

or are new machines only built based on purpose

14:02

do they really wanna dominate a planet or only exist in peace

14:03

in a state of homeostasis

14:03

thus would they need to expand their society for any other reason than a technical one?

@Neomatrixology & @David T. Gregory I think I made that comment on my phone while driving. I didn't mean to disagree with the 300 million number but rather that site itself. Whomever owns it plagerized from me at least twice that I have found from another website. In at least one case you can see where they just copied + pasted from another website because my forum name is still there. Besides that, I had found several inaccuries with the information that I did read from there, but my beef primarily is with the word stealing. (edited)

yeah i see

14:30

says a lot about the site that plagiarism is just tolerated like that

I get the beef with plagiarism, but, it’s a wiki.

...why the fuck did i decide to read matrix fanfiction

20:35

in one story you got a cat girl and android agent brown, in the other smith reveals his first name is hugo

Never read fan fiction.

Except if it's Peter Chimera

Peter Chimera is the only exception

Well, the Matrix comics are technically fan fic, but they aren’t off of the rails like they plots mentioned in here.

was it ever explained how the kid got picked by the Neb without a locator? (edited)

Magic

Plot armor

google was tracking him using location finder (edited)

19:16

Any other questions we can answer?

I just imagine the Pitch Meeting Guy with a stupid response, like “Because he’s in Reloaded” or “I dunno, cuz I need him to wake up and Neo says the same line he said to Kid in Reloaded”. (edited)

The Kid, one of the most annoying character of the franchise

Yep. Anyone want to take bets on if he returns?

I'd say it's most likely

1:46

I really hope he returns as a hard bitten veteran

I think that’s a possibility, and a hilarious one

general kid

11:40

"i didnt finish the training program, whats your excuse, maggot?"

That line in Revolutions was pretty good. Kid began to collect facial scars in MxO. But no callback to Capt Mifune that I can recall.

(Kid's New Name): Kid... That's a name I've not heard in a long time..

LOLFACEMATRIX

2

My name is The Adult

no, he would rename himself Infant

Sarah: "I thought you were a kid?" Kid: "Most kids do..."

2

Personal headcanon: Robot in the Family is how the AI started to take over.

I'm really sorry to share the bad news, but MxO aint canon

8:23

It's a good story and could be canon at many points, perhaps was originally intended to be canon

8:24

I have no problem accepting it as an alternative timeline or something, and giving it credit for being awesome. It just isn't canon though. The biggest reason it isn't canon is the BIP

not the pew pew eye lazers ? (edited)

why you deletin

ehhh. Too manic. Need to think and speak clearly

8:53

I will come back later

I think most people agree that it will be either ignored completely, or some vague plot points might be implied somehow....moshimos death seems a possiblity

It’s currently canon. Until it’s not.

Yeah I don't think anyone here thinks MxO storyline exists in the movie storyline, except maybe nods to significant and probably early events. But even then, I'm one of the doubters. MxO is a separate thing altogether. We won't know until the movie comes out, but I will be floored if I see MxO storyline acknowledged in MX4.

15:35

Even if Cowboy Curtis never appears in MX4, there's a convenient way to explain why, but I bet it'll be for a different reason

15:36

Unless the W's wrote that scenario (moshimo's assassination) themselves. If Paul Chadwick wrote it and the W's OK'd it, it likely never happened in the film timeline (edited)

1

The BIP storyline translates most to the film

Yuck

I'm also a doubter but last night I rewatched the Architect scene and realized after watching it 20 times I still missed a ton of stuff.

19:24

The fact that the Prime Program was far more detailed than just being a false prophecy, which implies that it -might- have been designed to give Neo special artificial powers. l also I didn't realize HOW under control everything was, that everything up to the moment Neo meets the architect was under control, that the Architect was able to transfer their anomalies to Neo as the single point of failure/uncontrol. I understood both before, just not all the details, which makes me question a lot of stuff again.

19:25

That being said I still don't believe in the BIP or Neo having fake powers, although the fake powers is a bit more plausible now

19:27

Here is why BIP is bullshit:

19:28

To understand you must first understand that Neo has a connection to the source of reality itself. That reality is also mathematical and in a sense coded, but on a more fundamental level

19:29

This means that the things preventing people from having power in the Matrix, the ability to "believe" and such, all apply to real life as well

19:29

The laws of physics and reality might be different, or more strict, but when The One understands them he learns how to manipulate them the same way as he does in the Matrix

19:35

As we know, Neo is choice and Smith is purpose. Or whatever similar terms you want to use. He first becomes aware of his connection to the source when he merges with Smith. They both corrupt eachother and gain a piece of the other. Smith gains awareness of his own free will, no longer requires a connection to the machines(earpiece), and Neo gains awareness of his connection to the source, his own programming so to speak.

19:36

The whole point of the movies was to make Neo question what is possible, that FREEING THE MIND is what gives The One powers. This should be no different in real life, just that real life has different programming

19:37

It's not about "hacking the matrix". It's about evolving mentally so that your consciousness no longer limits your perception

19:38

When Neo first arrives in Zion he is given a gift. The same spoon he bent inside the matrix. This seems like an innocent gesture at first, but if you think about it is probably a message that only Neo was meant to understand, and foreshadowing his IRL powers

19:38

Almost every small detail like that had a specific purpose in the movies

19:38

I believe this was intentional

19:41

When Neo regains his vision in Revolutions, he sees what looks like pure light, a sort of spiritual 6th sense. They could have designed this many ways, but It does not appear to be a representation created by the mind or machines. He is truly sensing what is there in full detail. Again, purposeful choice

19:42

In the first movie Neo is brought back to life using what can only be described as IRL powers, something that could only be achieved with belief.

19:43

Neo: Tell me how I separated my mind from my body without jacking in. Tell me how I stopped four sentinels by thinking it. Tell me just what the hell is happening to me. Oracle: The power of the One extends beyond this world. It reaches from here all the way back to where it came from. Neo: Where? Oracle: The Source. That’s what you felt when you touched those Sentinels. But you weren’t ready for it. You should be dead, but apparently you weren’t ready for that, either

19:44

This quote is the biggest clue of all that the source of reality is not the same as the source of the matrix

19:45

The movies are littered with clues like this implying that Neo is mastering reality as well as the matrix

19:45

This is why I think BIP is BS

19:49

and also why Neo being given powers is BS

19:50

He didn't need to be given powers, and it goes against the spirit of the entire trilogy

huh ?

19:51

neo has a wireless transponder as part of being "the one" program in him that lets him communicate with machines/jack in remotely to the matrix

19:51

thats why he can see stuff without eyes (he only sees machines), and why he was able to short circuit the sentinels

that's the BIP, which is introduced in MxO, exactly the thing I'm calling BS on

no its explained in the movies lol

19:52

"the power of the source" is just his prime program/being special in order to facilitate being the one

When is it confirmed in the movies?

there is no "the source" of reality

trainingprograms

1

Also if that's true, it still means MxO is not canon lol

its just a machine mainframe

19:52

that all programs come from or something

19:52

it exists somewhere in the real world sure

Well we're getting complicated here, but in MxO, from what I've read, the BIP was an experiment and The One was not supposed to have the machine interface, it was a fluke

its either that, or everyone that rejects the 1999 matrix is trapped in the "real world" matrix

19:53

and neo is just able to influence both

19:54

which the wachowkis have said isnt true

yeah MIM theory is stupid, which is why BIP was invented, because people refuse to accept that the movie as a spiritual message XD

19:55

anyways, hang on a sec

19:56

When is it confirmed in the movies he has a neural implant?

19:57

But also, if he was given an implant as part of the Prime Program, that means MxO is false because it says Neo being the one and being part of the BIP program was a coincidence and one of the bigger reasons the 6th cycle failed

show where youre getting your BIP stuff from

idk, just forget that for now. I've read too much and I'm not sure if that was in the game

cuz its not neo its trinity

But it comes down to this, you can either believe Neo had a BIP and BIP is canon, or Neo became aware of some kind of mental connection to a more fundamental "source" of reality

20:00

Whether or not the BIP was given to him as part of his programming is irrelevant tbh, just matters whether or not he had it

20:01

I think the whole trilogy was leading up to making Neo a real Messiah, and to make the audience question their own reality and what is possible

20:01

As Niobe said, she believes in Neo, not the prophecy. Same here

20:02

The Prime Program was designed to CONTROL the One. The inevitable anomoly

20:02

This doesn't negate the existence of The One. It just means the prophecy was a lie

20:04

Like I said, the clues are all there in the movies.

20:04

Next time you watch it, watch it from my point of view

20:05

In terms of its philosophical and metaphysical inspiration, it would not be remotely far-fetched for the authors to have adopted this view of reality

20:06

It would in fact be almost inconceivable that the authors are not idealists, and the POV I'm explaining is that of a hardcore idealist

20:06

IE reality is mental

20:07

so in that sense it kinda is another level of the matrix, just not controlled by the machines

20:08

When Neo gets stuck remotely jacked in, he's basically in a dream state, accessing another realm via the true source

who is there with him ?

Just like smith, he was freed from his tether, in Neo's case, from needing to jack in

20:09

Not sure what you mean

20:10

He's there at the Train Station with the people who were there

who are...

The train keeper dude who works for Merovingian, the father and his daughter Sati

who are...

programs, presumably?

why would programs be in a "spiritual realm"

I didn't say spiritual realm

its the transport between the matrix and the source

20:12

and neo ended up there because accessing machine interfaces (connecting to the source) should have killed him but he somehow resisted and ended up in between

Yes I understand that

20:14

I'm saying he didn't need an implant for that. It was similar to a Coma, except he went to a real(so to speak) place. (are dreams real?)

20:16

Also why would he end up half way in the matrix if he was shocked IRL?

who says he was shocked ?

20:16

attempt communicating with source, succeed, but pass out == stuck in transport layer between

Yeah I suppose that could be plausible

20:17

just wondering

has brain patterns of someone who is jacked in == still wirelessly connected

20:17

he can just do it without a jack

20:17

because genetically engineered to be the one

yes, yes, no

20:18

can you prove it?

== higher ability of influencing matrix processing calculations

20:18

== required to be the one

We both agree he was wirelessly jacked in

however, to jack him OUT

I have seen no proof in the trilogy that he was given or inherited any kind of wireless implant, as a part of his programming or otherwise

required agreement with the merovingian and reupload of his "brain" via the jack

You'll probably say the proof is in what he achieved IRL. And that's why we come from completely different ways of looking at things

20:20

Because there is more evidence supporting the fact that he is a special human being

yes because the machines made him special

20:21

to facilitate the function of the one

Not proven

20:21

Look I get everything you're saying but you don't get what I'm saying

he didnt return to the source as needed, so whatever they left in him

Then how do you explain Smith's role in giving Neo awarness of his own "implant". The Smith thing never happened in the previous 5 cycles, otherwise Smith would have become a virus previously

oracle nudged him to it

so you blame the oracle for leading him to his implant? She just had a little help this time?

20:24

anyways yeah I'm not buying your general view. I need more evidence, and I don't consider MxO evidence. I need movie evidence, like the kind I dug up

20:25

I'm not saying it's not true, but I'm not convinced

20:25

I still believe the writers of MxO just added in that stuff to explain what they failed to understand

20:25

now maybe my understanding is completely false and I'm seeing things that aren't there

20:26

Theres like a million plot holes if what you're saying is true. It makes no sense

20:27

I appreciate the debate

20:28

I think both versions of the story are awesome

20:31

The real proof would be from the Wachowskis, or being able to see exactly how much control they have over the franchise

20:33

If they have full control and input then we can only assume they OK'd MxO as Canon, but it appears they only had limited input and put a lot of faith into the original author, and that the entire MxO project went off rails pretty quickly. It would not suprise me if they ended up taking too many creative liberties. Or perhaps the Wachowskis just loved the alternative explanation so much they allowed there to be a surface lore and a hidden lore

20:38

Or maybe the spiritual/philosophical message I'm speaking of is truly there, and was meant to be a lie, just like the prophecy but for the audience. What if hardly anyone saw the message though?

I changed my mind now you're right lol

MxO was gonna go off the rails eventually, thats just an inevitability

20:48

you got a franchise thats already on a high and complex intellectual and artistic level which often doesnt translate very well into video games anyway

20:48

and then you gotta update the story in whats basically real time for writing purposes

@Neo 2 of course there can be a "message" beside the literal plot of the story

20:48

doesnt change what the plot is

20:50

also, all residents of the matrix are "engineered"

20:50

freeborns dont have jacks or any way to interface with the matrix

20:50

(as they dont have a matrix-resident program shell for them to be in either)

Why mention that @rajkosto

you dont like neo having a special transponder

20:53

or whatever it is that machines add to humans to let them matrix it up

I don't like the idea of him being given a remote jack. It's possible but it doesn't sit right with me

20:55

So I guess you're saying since everyone is engineered anyway it'd be extremely easy for them to give him one?

btw mxo also has a story thread that the matrix isnt kept running as a power source

yeah I saw a bit about that. Seems plausible

instead the machines do it in order to study/preserve human behaviour, and each human does the processing for their part of the matrix too, its not just sensory output

20:56

so they absolutely have some "hardware"

20:57

its why they can "bend" the rules

20:57

if the matrix was all processed "serverside", the clients would have no power.

yeah that's an interesting way of putting it

20:58

I always thought of "hacking" the matrix more as a way of finding loopholes that were unintended to be allowed on the server-side

20:58

Like, you aren't breaking any rules, just finding the loopholes

free your mind == you control your matrix simulation somehow

that's a cool idea, yeah. You control your own section of the processing

also the matrix is always viewed as "code" because "theres too much information to decode the matrix"

20:59

so its not audiovisual sensory data that goes through the cranial jack, but actual simulation code

hmmmmm

and it would also explain the weird mix of the 1. brain upload 2. continuous connection concepts that matrix uses

21:01

in brain upload simulation movies, you just transfer the consciousness then it lives on outside teh body, comes back too

Well we can probably assume the matrix requires a shitload of processing, and if people belief their own "programming" they are unlikely to discover that they are in fact in control of the parts of the matrix being processed by them. The power of their own belief... Goes both ways

which is why proper "jack out" procedures must be followed in the matrix (or you just die) (edited)

21:01

but in brain upload movies, you dont need the "constant connection" part of it

21:02

it would only be necessary if the brain is also doing some processing continuously for the matrix as well

21:03

"there are levels of survival we are prepared to accept"

that's a cool point. But the matrix was also designed as a function of a power plant, and the human bodies must be kept alive, so perhaps it isn't possible to completely seperate conciousness from the body from extended periods of time without the body decaying

in mxo it was hinted that the power output of humans is just about enough to power the matrix

21:03

thus that line from the architect

To further my point, we know the brain has patterns of being jacked in, therefor being jacked in is being experienced in the brain, not virtually

yet you cant sever the connection without the conscioussness "properly returning"

21:05

and wtf were thy doing when they jacked in neo while he was unconscious ?

21:05

whats the protocol for this thing that literally nobody has done before

I think we are both asking too many questions XD

21:06

There has to be a point where it crosses from plot to what is actually possible in reality

anyway, neo got his "real world powers" only after his conversation with the architect about the source, when he didnt reinsert the prime program

And we can only make assumptions about these things

"i can sense them"

21:06

its likely that this connection to the source was to facilitate the rebuild of zion

21:06

which he was supposed to do

that's a really good point too

21:07

But he only realized his powers when he needed to, for survival

21:07

So he could have had them longer than that

well, he wasnt in direct threat when he said "he could sense them"

Also that contradicts your idea that his powers were given to him

they are part of whatever the machines gave him to be the one

21:08

it just backfired to go the oracle's way this time

21:08

instead of the architect's

which, like you just said, his connection to the source was more of a way to reinsert the prime program after taking the right door, not a way to give him godlike powers IRL

its not godlike

I suppose it could be both, but you just said he didn't have powers until he met the architect

he can just control and sense machines near him

21:09

being in the white room might have been the point at which this extended program was supposed to get activated anyway, for zion rebuild

21:09

its the closest you can get to the source from within the matrix after all

21:09

one door away

what I'm saying is, you have basically promoted 2 contradictory theories

21:10

If his connection was given to him to finish The Path of The One and rebuild Zion/Matrix, and he only realized his powers after visiting the Architect, then you can't also so his connection was intended to give him power/vision over real machines

why not ?

Because his purpose was to take the right door, everything ends there

no.

21:11

thats where rebuild of zion starts

21:11

and direct communication with machines would be helpful

true

21:12

but earlier I'm pretty sure you were saying his IRL connection was a further extension of The Prime Program, IE him being led to believe he is some kind of powerful messiah (edited)

when he was in the white room

21:12

he learned what the source is and became close enough to "feel" it even afterwards

21:13

his custom overclocked transponder finally getting use

now that I think about it, his connection couldn't have been intended to make him think he was special IRL, because he didn't even realize it until after he disobeyed the Architect

21:15

He may have sensed it a bit, but it didn't really matter

21:15

It didn't effect him or the people around him in a significant way

he never thought he was special irl

evermind

21:16

When you said they gave him the connection earlier, we were talking about his powers in the matrix too, so I thought you meant they were both intended to make him feel powerful

21:17

or perhaps it did both, albeit on a subconcious level

his different hardware let him be the one in the matrix by having him affect a lot more of the simulation than normal podborn

21:18

he still wasnt really god

21:18

had to fly.

I see

you saw all of the animatrix right

It's been a while but yes

21:20

anyways I'm starting to believe you're right about all this

it seems this one/architect arrangement is some sort of "do you still respect the pact" check for humans

21:20

that they signed in the 2nd rennaisance

21:20

they dont HAVE to have a human decide who is in zion

what pact?

the one signed in barcode and explosions.

I'll watch it later

oh come on, you forgot "surrender your flesh, and a new world awaits you?"

so the pact just gives them a limited amount of control over their own slavery?

21:23

And the Architect offering to let Neo rebuild Zion and choose the founders is him respecting the pact?

21:23

Yeah I forgot, sorry

21:24

Readinb about it now

it might be that the machines still have some remnant of a form of "asimovs laws" where they desire to preserve/protect humanity, in their weird way

21:24

after they scorched the sky and started nuking shit, AI would likely decide that keeping them alive virtually is better than everyone going extinct

21:25

but only as long as thats what they agree upon

21:25

after all, "to an artificial mind, all reality is virtual" (edited)

Reading from wikipedia it seems the war was originally a war of dominance, and the Matrix was created as a mercy to keep humans alive without destroying them. So you might be right

its a shame we dont see any of zero one or... any machine civilization really

21:31

just sentinels

21:31

which are only there for zion

21:33

but then again, what would they build once humanity doesnt need any of their products...

21:34

just bigger and better servers for them to process things on

Who knows... They'd probably build their own Matrix for themselves

21:35

We know machines are in some sense alive, and we know programs can experience "human" emotion

yet the machines are still an infant and dont really know what to do

21:35

thus the babyface on deus ex machina sentinel contraption

We know the machines while cool and calculated do have at least some kind of a personality or RSI

21:36

yeah

21:36

It's hard to imagine

21:36

Being a machine

wont have to imagine soon

21:37

should be able to talk to a confused AI bot soon

21:37

just continually screaming inside

maybe. I still think for that to happen science must understand consciousness

nope

21:38

its already an indecipherable mess that is just a lump of data we dont understand

21:38

just like our brains

21:38

AI algorithms are "trained", not "created" by humans

Well, if you subscribe to materialist science then it makes sense that a bunch of evolving jumbled code might eventually evolve the phenomenah of conciousness. But I'm an idealist

the end result, how it works isnt known by the people who made it

I think the only thing we'll do is succeed in training them to be immediately indistinguishable from a real consciousness

21:40

That doesn't make them alive

does it make you alive

Now we are just talking choice vs programming

21:40

IDK

21:41

I don't think even the Wachowskis know

21:41

Or the machines, or the humans

21:41

I think that's like the biggest question of the movies

we know how a neuron works, we modelled the neural networks kinda around that

21:41

but we dont know why the brain does what it does

21:41

just like we wont know how the AIs function above that singular unit

21:42

all those "magic" image manipulation algorithms are already like that (edited)

It is a complete assumption that the arrangements of neurons create a secondary phenomena of conciousness and you might as well be the Merovingian if you think everything is that simple

21:42

This is metaphysics and philosophy though

and "neo goes to a spiritual realm" wasnt ?

to me personally, I think the brain is like a computer/interface to the physical "simulation"

21:43

I never said spiritual realm haha

21:43

I said a dreamlike state

21:44

I think consciousness exists independent of the brain but the brain is like a physical copy of the consciousness that grows to fit the mind of the wearer

cool story

It allows us to exist in this realm. It's how we jack in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P40_kd-mS8

Do You Have a Single Fact to Back That Up?

You have zero facts to back up the materialist dogma that everything is a result of a collection of atoms and pure causality

except all of objective reality currently

that's empiricism, not rationalism

21:46

In other words, you are trying to understand the source by studying the matrix. Futile

21:46

but yeah I'm a philosopher

21:46

Let's not get into a debate that will never end

21:47

I'll just ask one thing. If everything is physical, where are the laws of physics located?

21:47

Checkmate

they arent a physical thing

21:48

theyre just our ways of explaining phenomena that make accurate predictions

21:49

also, theyre stored in this machine: http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-536

Things either follow an underlying order or everything is complete chaos and randomness. As we can see the universe is ordered and evolving. This is purpose. Where is purpose located? It pre-exists the physical universe. It is dimensionless. Just like the laws of logic that everything MUST follow. They are the same laws that exist everywhere in time and space. 1 + 1 = 2

1

21:50

Dimensional reality starts from the dimensionless

21:51

Science cannot probe dimensionless reality. It denies it because it cannot be measured or observed, other than our own minds

1

21:51

Even the big bang is proof of this, but science has no answer of what happened before that

Embedded image

The relativity of light, quantum entanglement, all clues that prove reality follows an underlying dimensionless source

This is above my pay grade

I do have to agree with you on the measurements and definitions - most of our measurement methods or rules, formulas etc is what we have created in order to make sense of our reality. but what if we simply have something that simply does not fit into any pre-constructed definition that we have? I mean, we'd have to create new ones to be able to get it......though for now, it's not really possible it's almost like a 0/0 situation

We already have it, but science erroneously considers it a human abstraction. It's called mathematics. It has no problem dealing with infinity, zero, frequency vs units, every possible question can be answered. It's the fundamental logic underlying reality. All logic is derived from mathematics, and all code, just like the universe which is a mathematical construct

21:57

It cannot be created nor destroyed. It cannot be proven wrong. It simply -IS-

21:57

it is the one thing that is eternally being

21:58

When you look at it in mathematical terms, you can create nothing by balancing out an equation. Dimensionless reality can contain information

21:59

Dimensionality is really just the objective aspect of the existence, the extended, non-subjective aspect. It's the matrix

22:00

It's mental energy organized into a certain form

makes sense if you'd think about how everyone is wired into it, everyone more or less helps it manifest in the way it is as well

Yes, I agree with that in theory

22:01

I think that's most likely how it all works

like, Park East is filled with those people, and those events happen, in that specific order - simply because the people who are in the system are shaping it (aware of this reality or not) people who seem to know the fact that the "life" is a simulation simply have a little more room to wiggle, I guess

I look at it more like everything is made of nodes. These nodes are like the individual building blocks of reality -minds- but they are in a primitive state, and can be controlled by higher consciousness, like cells in an organism. When you increase your awareness of reality you gain control of more nodes in a sense

cz_eyeshake

1

22:04

But now I'm getting a bit sci-fi

dude weed lmao

@rajkosto Imagine actually thinking about the questions of existence

22:07

Imagine being such an arrogant human, DARING to know what is unknowable

@Neo 2 I actually thought of personalities/temperament as well as you wrote your message...you can alter your personality and you mostly develop this throughout life (well, simulation or not) but your temperament manifests at birth and will follow you no matter what some people can manage it better and some people let it slide hell, I'd even like to think that it was Neo's subconscious/temperament that enabled him to give the middle finger to the Architect's deal all the other ones were co-operative but this dude? nope.

You've basically hit the end of philosophy right now. The question of choice/mind/something/nothing/purpose/causality/infinity

and that actually makes sense! IDK why, but I do lean towards connectionism - where in language theory, the more you learn = a network on how the entire language system works. You can play with languages better, you become smoother, you are a lot more precise, and most likely, accurate. Now broaden its concept furthermore and apply for all lobes/areas. It can certainly be said that the more you put into the thinking process, the more effective your brain gets in its inner workings. I think that's what makes redpills bend the rules.

22:11

@Neo 2 whooops, I studied English Language Teaching - my philosophy is actually hella rusty.

(hopefully not language learning theory as well)

I always saw the redpills as just becoming more aware of reality, thus getting rid of any per-concieved notions they had about what is/isn't possible. They're not breaking any rules, just doing what is possible

22:14

And they say that language is the building block of consciousness

22:15

If we think about it, language is just our way of trying to copy the functions that exist in reality

It's another perspective, yes. Depends on whose perspective you are looking from: those could count as "rules" for the Machines but for the humans, it is one step further - like scaffolding for the next level

22:16

y e s language processes are alike general human reasoning - it enables deeper thought as well I'd say they are intertwined and almost inseparable

but yeah you are right. Thinking itself is the tool we use to become like Neo

22:17

maybe thinking is the wrong word, but accessing new parts of the brain, creating new connections

22:18

sometimes that is from a lack of thinking, taking a break

22:18

allowing something else to speak

22:18

"free your mind"

22:19

but ultimately only math will explain the workings of existence

22:19

Short of mathematical theory we can only understand things intuitively. Our language is incomplete

22:19

Math is the perfect language, thus the language we use to understand reality, and the language reality is made of

1

22:20

There is no other ultimate power. If you know everything you can do everything possible

22:20

Every lesser power is just an intuitive version of a higher truth

it can even be something different from actively thinking - one day, the brain compiles information another way or re-orders it you end up remembering better, or suddenly you have a better idea especially after sleeping and waking up - a soft reboot for the brain - it's always a fresher, more free mind mathematics is our way of perceiving and understanding our surroundings and universe. I don't really want to say more about maths however, since I was terrible at it in high school and it's not my area, really :/ Language though, evolves constantly, and it will always continue to shapeshift as long as humans are on the planet (or loaded into a drive, any plane of existence with a Wernicke's & Broca's areas would count). It would not be a great tool to perceive the world as you said - incomplete. It will never be "complete". Watch people create at least hundreds of parole as they live on. and for the "if you know everything, you can do anything": that's absolutely correct but another thing that popped into my mind: knowing is not enough, you will need to utilize all this knowledge to abolish any obstacle towards the main goal

Knowing everything would imply knowing exactly what to do and having every reason to do it

22:26

But as for math, mainstream science tends to look at it as a map of the world, while idealists and philosophers, many view as the territory itself

22:26

It's honestly absurd to think reality is anything but mathematical

22:26

If you can't realize that you haven't done much thinking IMO

22:26

not you personally, just saying

22:27

We cannot process speaking in purely mathematical language. We need to become smarter, practice more. That's why we create abstractions in the form of human languages, things that represent other things. It's just like representing complex variables as a single letter in math, but even more abstract

22:28

Because we experience reality via the senses, we erroneously assume that our sense are the single most accurate instrument for detecting reality

22:28

When the senses only evolved for survival, and simplifying how we see things

22:29

This critical error infects all of mainstream science

22:30

When we realize our error, we often turn to intuition. Few ever make it to logic

22:30

Intuition is flawed but reveals things that observation cannot

22:31

Yet intuition is what caused Morpheus to be duped

22:31

it's the place of mysticism, myth, belief

22:32

empiricism is a form of intuition, a simplification of reality

22:32

although paradoxically it is probably the most lacking of intuition out of all concepts

22:32

sorry I'll shut up for a minute

I'd still define it as "retaining necessary information and analysing it for the best outcome". Personal preference, I assume. it leads to the same conclusion in different expressions no I got you, it's simply too intricate - though absolutely mathematical and mathematics focuses solely on what surrounds you, no ifs, no elses. no subjective matter. language is different matters, really, a skill beyond any survival instinct besides, it is wayy too subjective to help us define anything with it we express ourselves (emotions, thoughts, wants/needs and anything, really) and share the information that mathematics grants us with the languages, and then we translate them all over (which is! problematic yet again!) for more people to access this information and be aware of its existence I'd also like to think his intuition blinded him to certain things, such as a Truce option that Neo was able to manage with the Machines :' ) he found the One, his path was done then and there, but Neo, who saw things differently, managed to do him better

it's his intuition and lack of intuition. There are different levels of it

22:36

But the piont is only logic is taking full control of Truth. Intuition is submitting your definition of reality to something mysterious which you cannot analyze

22:36

and the main point of all is that mainstream science is not logical

22:38

and don't get me wrong. I understand what Im saying far more intuitively than logically. It's just the most logical thing I can think of

This conversation has certainly crossed over into non-lore, which is perfectly fine, I wouldn't have started my channel if I didn't believe analyzing the films had this strange way of unlocking areas of deconstructionism and reconstructive thought processes with an unparalleled consistency... but since I'm late to the party, I believe the actual Lore conversation was lacking a whole lot of Trinity. Where the Wachowski's state that the golden light is the key to the films, Trinity is really the key to Neo being different than his predecessors. And I often stay away from the BIP, because I always felt like that story was never fully developed or defined, but what I do know, is that Trinity was a product of that tech. The "Nudge" @rajkosto was talking about. The Architect tells us the One is by "design"... The Oracle, then plays her role in designing his Mate. Lana Wachowski specifically talks about how she couldn't directly relate to the experience of a Messiah that loves everyone and connects to everyone, wants to sacrifice for everyone. And therefore the focus becomes a love story, Neo & Trinity. This also makes for a good movie. That said, in the Matrix Revisted DVD extra I believe, they show Carrie-Anne Moss asking for direction during the scene at the end of the first film when they blow the Nebs, EMP. Carrie-Anne asks the wachowski's how does Trinity know when to pull the jack out of Neo. How does she know when he made it out. Lana replied, "She knows". She just knows. So there are two parts to this, the first is the most important, at the end of the day it's all science fiction. It doesn't have to make sense in the real world. Things are left vague, so that we can do, exactly what we are doing here 20 years later. (edited)

22:39

The other side to the coin, is that Trinity & Neo are connected, by love yes, but Trinity being a product of the BIP gives them an even further connection of BOTH being hybrid. Yes, anyone born of the Matrix has implants & is technically cyborg, but Smith into Bane, & Cryptos shows us in the Matrix Online that it only works out smoothly if there is that little bit of extra. That touch of biological engineering or design to make sure the program/human experience will last an entire lifetime.

if you ask me, intuition is humanities biggest flaw. The architect was wrong. It's also our biggest super power

22:39

going to read that now @Neomatrixology (edited)

generally speaking, it makes some sense to us. ask any other being out there in space about our quantum physics or chemistry knowledge and they could scowl at it again, science is what enables us to give most logical and rational decisions hence most it is the best we can do and well...what is a human being without intuition? our brains are the perfect blend of emotion and logic, and it can process all of it (both positively and negatively: internal motivation vs. trauma/mental illness) @Neo 2

22:40

omg @Neomatrixology lemme read that

Another thing I think gets over looked a lot:

22:42

Cypher: Don’t hate me, Trinity. I’m just the messenger, and right now I’m gonna prove it to you. If Morpheus was right, then there’s no way I can pull this plug. I mean if Neo’s The One, then there’d have to be some kind of a miracle to stop me. Right? I mean how can he be The One if he’s dead? You never did answer me before if you bought into Morpheus’ bullshit – come on – all I want is a little yes or no. Look into his eyes, those big pretty eyes. Tell me. Yes or no?

22:44

So the last part, is dialogue to confirm that whole connection bit I just talked about... but the miracle factor, I think truly gets lost in the conversation. Largely due to the Wachowski's not wanting to produce an overly or overtly religious piece, but when dealing with the Jesus model, there is that extra God or Miracle factor in the mix

Yes, I agree that the Golden Light is key, and also tend to reject BIP like I've said. The interesting thing about Trinity is that, even if she wasn't part of the program(I don't think she was honestly) She IS the reason this one was different, the biggest reason, not talking about Smith or anything else. She's the reason he didn't complete the Prime Program. I think when you speak of Trinity knowing, you're just speaking of her intuition. But I'm willing to explore the idea that she was part of the program somehow. I still think all that is mostly non-canon rationalization from people who missed the point, specifically that the Golden Light is key. But that's just my personal interpretation

Neo's powers has nothing to do with Tank saving his life outside of Tank believing himself that Neo was the One. The path to Peace was a team effort, and these miracles outside of the Matrix are beyond the control of the Oracle & the Architect

@Deleted User Too some up my criticism of science, it's become a collection of assumptions, many of which are dogmatic and reactionary(specifically anti-religious in their assumptions, rather than pro-truth). The emphasis on empericism and materialism is a totally closed minded assumption about reality that even science has finally disproven, resulting in a myriad of absurd theories such as 11 dimensions or multiverses

22:48

Scientists will respond saying it's the only realistic way we have of studying reality and we choose to operate according to the scientific method. But they are being dishonest because they have internalized this as a belief system

22:48

If we have the tools of logic then we can understand reality, which is built on logic. That's the way I see it. Without contemplation we will never "get it"

the miracles are just "perverse instantiation" - creating something with some certain intent but having a completely different/unexpected outcome "Autonomous AI systems may be assigned the wrong goals by accident" and well,,, the Architect never thought the Sixth One out, did he? Neo acknowledged he was the One, and everything was fine up until the meeting. Neo was able to block out the Architect and do whatever he pleased, with his "external motivator" Trinity

@Neomatrixology I agree with your sentiment. The movies specifically had a miracle/soul aspect that is conveniently overlooked with the continuation of the MxO lore

yeah, I tend to not really delve into it willingly actually - miracles are not really in my perspective

22:51

it is a common leitmotif

@Deleted User I think it's important to draw a distinction between The One VS The Path of The One(Prime Program) The one is a natural occurrence that the Architect seeks to guide/control. The prophecy may be a lie but The One is something else. But also, just as The One is a culmination of all the other anomalies, he's also a culmination of all the other efforts of everyone else. He would have gotten nowhere without Trinity and Morpheus

the connection in between the trio is why they assume Zion is another level of the Matrix anyway

The BIP doesn't claim to carry the prime program or anomaly code at all. It allows successful Hybrid functionality. The Oligarchs want it to transfer consciousness to a new host etc. Mxo uses the BIP as the logic behind how Trinity was able to return, it wasn't saying that makes her a version of the one or the prime program. Cryptos & Bane are the examples of how going hybrid without being biologically designed to do so becomes problematic. BIP can also be used to explain how the Oracle knew Trinity would fall in love with Neo, by designing her to call for the anomaly code.

(which is, big no btw)

The cool thing about the Oracle is that she truly is an Oracle, even if part of the programming, she's an independent thing, a sort of black-box AI that the architect doesn't understand, but knows is necessary

22:56

So what she says to Neo may have always been helpful

22:57

Or her purpose was simply to tell them what needed to be heard, and the prime program is just a twisted version of The Path of Neo. In order for the Prime Program to work, the Oracle had to start the Path of Neo

The Architect & others may be programs to operate in certain conditions (I'm not delving into sentience, but there is a high chance they had certain sentience) but the Oracle is more of an ASI that can operate more efficiently she always knows a few steps further

@Neomatrixology but it's also used to explain how Neo had extra senses and could jack in remotely. Do you agree with this? Doesn't that contradict a lot of the more epic themes?

Where did you see it say that about NEO though?

In the Wiki

23:02

which is supposedly part of MxO

23:03

@Neomatrixology This is essentially the original debate we were having

IF you are asking me what I think, it's not a linear discussion, things don't have to be one or the other... I believe Neo being hybrid is a factor... Lots of things are in Matrix Wiki's that's my point, is there screen shots? Cinematics, or any actual Mxo story related points of reference?

I don't know. That's why the Wiki pisses me off, that and it was never explicitely confirmed to be canon

23:03

for all I know somebody just made it up

23:04

I'm farely sure I recall it being one of the plot points in MxO though

23:04

I never played it but I've read a ton about it

23:05

@rajkosto was talking about it earlier

23:07

i guess both views are somewhat compatible if you remove a little bit from one of them

23:07

You could say Neo just became aware of his hybrid nature because he is the One and wasn't ever supposed to know

23:08

But idk, it still always seemed like he was connected to the source of reality itself. The golden light is key

23:08

And the spoon in Zion, and all the other clues

23:09

I reject BIP. If he had some kind of hybrid thing BIP is an exaggerated version of it probably

23:10

At this point I've stretched my mind in so many ways that I can't really debate it any longer

23:10

I don't even remember who said what

23:11

If it's not canon it's still genius writing

That's what I like about talking to @Vesuveus he has legit screen shots of mission dialogue, there is also an archive by Julio Ortiz that is a collection of actual game notes & mission details etc. I don't deny the BIP was a plot point, I'm just saying I did not see a whole lot of direct BIP references to Neo in Matrix online. Direct reference to Trinity yes, but I'd rather piece back the Mxo story lines I missed or forgot myself than reply on a 3rd party unverified wiki explanation. So let's say that there is a point in the MXO storyline where we can confirm that Neo was indeed a product of BIP tech... the point that I am making is that I was able to deduce that Neo was hybrid without that. So if he is Hybrid because of the BIP or not because of the BIP doesn't carry much weight to me. Rajkosto's points about the One aren't necessarily BIP specific once you accept Neo as hybrid which we all seem to agree on. Finding out Trinity was a product of the BIP added new intel to the conversation for me.

Without the screens and documents it's really hard to tell what people are confirming as canon lore VS what people are assuming

23:13

My biggest beef with BIP was that it removed the idea of Neo having a sort of awakening IRL, because he is basically The One

So now you see why I don't really like going deep into BIP discussion lol

BIP, as I understood it relating to neo

23:13

Yeah screw it lol

23:14

It's hard for me to believe such a Gnostic and philosophical tale would do anything but advocate for becoming god IRL

23:14

It seems to be the 100% naturally conclusion of the trilogy

23:16

It requires no explanation, no BIP. Whether neo used radio waves, quantum entanglement, doesn't make a difference. He just made it possible

23:21

It's just that having such a specific explanation diminishes the effect of the message (edited)

The Matrix borrows & makes references to a lot of things... so that's what I meant by saying it's a non-linear answer from me. There could be quantum radio waves guided by God coded midi cloreans. Why Not? The fun of the experience is deciding what you believe. Now, yes, I am guilty of saying the Matrix inside the Matrix theory is not supported by the films, because I do believe that when one uses proofs as a check & balance some ideas don't work or create more problems. But in general, if there's no hiccups, knock yourself out, is my approach.

Yeah that's the great thing about it, and the great thing about MxO. That it offers different ways of explaining things, provokes immense thought

23:22

But yeah MIM is BS, and I always saw BIP as a way to replace MIM

23:23

A second attempt so to speak, to deny the possibility of any kind of real life The One powers

23:23

Perhaps BIP was a real thing but MxO overused it?

23:24

I just never thought the trilogy required any explanation. It all made perfect sense to me

23:25

Afterall, everything is connected to the True Source, wherever that is in time/space. Even the source of the matrix and the machines and all of earth come from a Source somewhere. It's that source I believed Neo was tapping into

23:25

Hence the light

23:26

and the common semi-scientific theory that everything is made of light

23:26

Or the electromagnetic spectrum I guess I should say?

23:27

energy

OK so the difference for me is that when someone mentions MIM I challenge them to give a single shred of dialogue or verbal evidence to support the claim as there is none. Now, I can point people to where the production designer, cinematographer, and Wachowski's themselves define the difference between the Matrix & the "real world". And that kind of seals it for me, I'm not going to sit here & say I know better than the people who actually made the film. The BIP on the other hand does have dialogue in the game to support it's existence. Now some may argue that Chadwick was no longer on staff when it was rolled out, but Rarebit confirms all of his story lines had to be approved by the Wachowski's and at least one idea got vetoed. But to the point of this conversation, while there is plenty of dialogue in MXO to support that the BIP exists in the Matrix universe, I personally have not seen anything that specifically said the BIP is how Neo has powers outside the Matrix. The BIP may be the reason why Neo can sustain carrying the anomaly code in the real world, I just wouldn't put too much stock in the wiki definitions as how a storyline played out in the actual Matrix online. I see all kinds of erroneous stuff on Matrix Wiki sites. (edited)

good analysis, thanks

23:30

Let me see if I can find a source for that claim

23:31

and yeah, good on you for examining the meaning of "canon" and the extent to which the Wachowskis were on-board. That's the thing most people don't think about. They just accept it

23:34

It literally said so on the wiki but I'm having trouble finding it

Oh I definitely believe it says it on the wiki lol

I can't find it

23:43

However it does say that the Prime Program gave Neo his powers, another thing I have trouble accepting as canon

Why?

It's not mentioned by the Architect IIRC

Yes it is

hmmm

23:44

one sec

The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program.

That doesn't say they gave neo god mode...

23:45

or any special abilities

23:47

"And to make this claim believable, this random human is not only granted with the code carrying the Integral Anomaly but also with a connection to the Source, which gives him/her a vast array of special abilities, that no other has" - The Wiki

23:47

^assumption or MxO, not confirmed in trilogy

23:48

The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one

23:49

That is the purpose of the prime program according to the trilogy. To create an attachement to humanity to force The One to reboot the matrix. It says nothing about being given special abilities

23:50

And doesn't the one just pop up randomly at some point in the cycle? It's not like he's chosen by the machines is it? He is somebody with natural gifts

23:51

He is clearly gifted in fighting as well, as we can see in the simulation programs outside the main matrix

23:53

He's an anomaly. He is gifted because he senses the Matrix is fake, and is able to see through the curtains to know what is possible

23:53

Along with this, the other characters in the trilogy gain power according to what Neo shows is possible. They increase in skill to rival Neo in the first movie

23:54

Morpheus can do some epic shit. Is he part of the prime program too then?

23:54

(don't answer that XD)

23:56

I'm done now. Brain is full of fuck. Good talking everyone

23:58

can't wait for Matrix 4 to clear up some of this

23:59

Honestly the lore was fine before all this shit. It doesn't add anything profound, just turns everything into a mystery

Mx4 will not answer these questions. They will present new questions that we will try to fit into our understanding.

I kind of hope it doesn't answer too many questions. I love the open-ended nature of the franchise.

What if there really are 2 storylines that appeal to different types of people? The spiritual and the scientific

That is what I mean when I say non-linear. Sure, people will choose spiritual or scientific, red pill or blue pill, right door or left door. When I'm saying the entire time Neo is Hybrid he isn't just man or machine, he's both. The answer isn't one sided, there is no reason why the explanation doesn't include both. There are two sides to every story & yet the truth is usually found somewhere in the middle.

I think that's the best way to look at it @Neomatrixology

1:47

somewhere in the middle

1:48

I like theorizing and thinking about stuff. There's nothing else like The Matrix, maybe Game of Thrones in some ways

1:48

But I still want closure in the end. I'm searching for truth. That's my goal

1:48

I would be happy to find out I was mislead this entire time, or that the things I noticed were deliberate, like the movie itself was a false prophecy

1:49

Like, the things I believe about the nature of reality and The One being something that could exist IRL, being true concepts, but in the context of the story they just weren't there yet

1:52

And it could still be somewhat true, that Neo was able to become aware of these abilities, but that the abilities were somewhat inherited by the Prime Program. It just lessons the effect of his figure as a messiah, but doesn't nullify it. He still put some work into it

1:53

Or if they were a result of his biological implants, but weren't intended to be used that way. That way he's still an epic hero, but it's less magical

1:54

I suppose if none of that is true, even if he interfaced directly with reality itself, if we could understand the mechanism that allowed it, it would still seem less impressive

I'd say the things noticed are most certainly deliberate. The Wachowski's said when they "explain" the trilogy the response was along the lines of "oh that's it" as you put it less impressive. The lack of a definitive closure is that open-ended feeling I believe Metalogic was describing. I have to agree that you are likely setting yourself up for disappointment if you go into the Matrix 4 with any expectation about old questions being answered. Anything is possible, but if old questions are addressed I can only imagine they'd be followed up with new ones. Part of the goal was to capture the mystique of metaphysics & to that I believe they did an outstanding job of creating a universe that allows the audience member to actively engage with their own thoughts about what is real and what is possible.

Well I was talking earlier about how intuition is probably our greatest flaw and power. I intuitively see certain things but perhaps I'm putting too much faith into it

2:06

Anyways my laptop keeps dying so I must be getting closer to the truth...

2:06

This reminds me of like 10 years ago, I was researching the lore and my screen went black and said, "Wake up Neo"

2:07

I swear to god this truly happened

2:07

I started talking to the person and they said they were a white hat hacker alerting me that my PC was part of an open botnet

2:08

They didn't know how I got the virus. I thanked them and reinstalled the OS. I kinda wish I had talked longer

I need to smoke weed. I'm not on anything. I'm on not-weed right now. This is why I smoke weed >_>

1

I’m waiting for the perfect time to start weed

I don't think you are missing anythimg. Fuck it I am going to leave it misspelled. In other news, unless something major has changed like a script being leaked or a trailer being dropped accidently without any of us hearing about it, we only know a few things for sure about the new movie. Carrie-Ann Moss is in the movie and Laurence Fishburn isn't are two. That tells me that it is likely Trinity will be a character in the movie and Morpheus will not. Which fits the story that was continued in MXO. (edited)

Even more when I expand in a completely different direction.

Time travel

Can we really go off what IMDB says? Does it really mean there will be no Lawrence Fishborne? (edited)

5:42

I can't imagine him turning it down, or imagine a Matrix movie without him

5:42

I suspect he will be a huge reveal when the teaser comes out

5:43

assuming the movie doesn't get cancelled at this point...

5:45

Please god no time travel though (edited)

Morpheus puts on his glasses “Where we’re going we don’t need Codes!”

Dont you think that, from what we know.. that Neo and Trinity's code is caught in the matrix city or sorta something separate but similar to the matrix and their body's are clearly gone.. or being kept in the machine city safe somewhere.. perhaps they even repaired her body who knows.. and they have to try to find a way out of there

17:41

Like back to the matrix.. X amount of time has past

17:42

I mean who will be the enemy in all this.. this film is like a complete mystery to me

17:42

Will the war have started again?

So, MxO May or may not remain cannon. I was pessimistic, then optimistic and now pessimistic again.

2:07

Having said that, there are things that could be used to M4, such as machines extracting code from Trinity’s body before she was supposed to be recycled.

2:08

Since Neo jumpstarted her heart, some of his Prime Program could have imprinted onto her.

2:09

According to MxO, Neo and Trinity were the perfect results of bio- engineering and interfacing with machine code, down to their DNA.

2:11

The guy on YouTube Matrix Explained mentioned there could be several Neos/Thomas Andersons for Morpheus to find. By that logic, there could be several Trinity’s, too, and the ones in Mx4 are still in pods or recently awakening.

I'd imprint my prime program on nvm

LOLFACEMATRIX

3

@Vesuveus Matrix Explained also Said Neo was Darth Vader & Inception was the prequel to the Matrix... IJS

Yeah, I didn’t even click on that garbage. I gotta filter all that shit now. I’m just so tired of the silly shit getting shared and recycled and new videos about old stupid shit like MWM and Merv is the one

6:38

I'll say this though, guys like film theorist & Matrix explained know what the internet wants... bunch of nonsense for the views

Nonsense is the word

so i wonder...during the beginning phase of the pandemic they released a game called foldit to crowdsource a cure for the pandemic. how that was supposed to work i have no clue but...yeah. wouldnt it fit into the world of the matrix for the machine to do something similar?

1:23

maybe have engineering students solve some engineering problem for the machines as their final exam

I’m guessing it’s like folding@home

You know there would be like 1,000 conspiracy theories involving Bill Gates, The UN, and the Deep State if they had a folding@home game for COVID.

3:15

We're living in very stupid times.

I mean, there is.

4:42

There's lots of folding@home projects for COVID

So I ended up getting into a whole discussion of the Matrix lore on reddit. I just can't stand people dismissing the whole franchise because the humans = batteries idea is flawed - https://www.reddit.com/r/BrandNewSentence/comments/hgaxp2/the_robots_would_have_figured_that_out_and_not/

r/BrandNewSentence - The robots would have figured that out and not...

21,422 votes and 409 comments so far on Reddit

@Trevor | Never Engine Meanwhile... The Terminator time travels no one bats an eye... if you really want to drop the mic on them tho just post this video link in the thread: https://youtu.be/1N_osixK-ug

The Matrix Trilogy: Solving the Battery Problem

arent there a couple of alternatives like archive.is?

Matrix Explained also Said Neo was Darth Vader & Inception was the prequel to the Matrix... IJS

@Neomatrixology ummm ahhhh ummm what?

20:35

Equilibrium has a better chance of being in the MEU than those movies ever would.

What happened to the agents in first seven incarnations of the matrix? Did they become exiled?

Most of them got deleted, some of them chose Exile.

Also isn’t there a third human settlement or is it just Stalingrad and Zion?

theres also a fan theory stating that terminator was the prequel to matrix

20:48

or to be more precise that the terminator machine war and the events of the matrix are linked

20:49

of course the 2nd renaissance completely debunks that one

I mean my mxo factions back story was a Terminatrix crossover. Maybe that's why I don't care for the cross over theory videos now its like been there done that 15 years ago: https://youtu.be/Qx_It_iegQM

Yahya Abdul-Mateen II In Matrix 4 Rumor [Meeting Morpheus Theory Ex...

21:46

But in Mxo what we were doing was fan fiction cross over rp

21:48

@Mavion the crew in Matriculated appeared to be held up in an outpost but they got their asses handed to them... the old man was solo in the Matrix comic, so outside of New Zion nothing confirmed (edited)

21:53

I guess if you consider the Oligarchs having a human settlement that could count

@Neomatrixology Stalingrad is confirmed if I recall but that fell before neo came

I always thought Stalingrad was just a base of operations for The General and his army in The Real.

Yeah, exiled toasters inhabited Stalingrad

Could there be something akin to a false one before Neo?

you mean a one gone wrong or someone thought to be the one who wasnt

13:31

if youre talking about the latter its theorized that cypher may have been one

I think he means more in a false prophet kind of way?

there is a supposed matrix reloaded shadow script circulating online that actually features something like that - a bluepill being equipped with one-like superpowers by a returning agent smith with a ponytail

That just makes Smith sound like a sleazed Hollywood producer.

indeed.

13:39

but as far as a false prophet is concerned: i doubt it. the machines control the path of the one in so many ways, by designing the psychological makeup of the person (profound attachment towards the human race), carefully crafting the path of the one to ensure correct development and compliance etc

13:41

and id be inclined to believe that his powers are given to him by the machines, not a naturally occurring phenomenon, so if things go horribly wrong why not take them away?

13:42

if there is even the slightest chance of a one deviating completely the oracle would probably have the ability to notice and report

They revisited the Smith pony tail thing? I remember at the end of the Matrix VHS (lol) there was a featurette about The Matrix Reloaded making and Smith had a pony tail in some shot of him in front of a greenscreen or something (edited)

to quote neo: "jesus christ that things real?!"

13:56

but actually that makes it more likely that the shadow script is genuine

I'm just surprised Hugo Weaving could grow a ponytail.

there are also various concepts that were ultimately used in the movies. multiple smiths, swordfighting, every inhabitant of the matrix dying...

14:00

at the end neo is supposed to destroy the metacortex building cause it serves an important purpose in the software architecture of the matrix, probably kinda like system32 on windows, smith takes over multiple civilians at once, neo murdering all the agents, walking through a sea of corpses and then realizing "hey if i crash the matrix everyone will die, right morpheus? ...morpheus?"

14:00

so it is a bit absurd

Okay the Metacortex thing doesn't make sense. Why would the machines put an important file or subroutine in a very easily destructible building?

i think it is somewhat protected and able to return to its original state after neo is interrupted by the smiths. also they freeze time or something like that

Yea, all of that just sounds stupid

14:05

Glad it didn't make it into the final script

just read up on it, metacortex is the actual mainframe

14:10

http://remoteviewinglight.com/thematrixtruth/html/revolutions-shadow-script1.html here, if you care for some wachowskis on crack

Okay, why would the mainframe have any physical representation?

14:11

Like, all the background programs and subroutines shouldn't exist in the physical realm of The Matrix, that what makes them background programs and subroutines.

i have no clue

14:13

perhaps in this vision of the matrix everything has a physical representation and the background aspect is only achieved by those programs living a quiet lifestyle

its fan fiction

https://youtu.be/GM-e46xdcUo?t=6

jonathan frakes telling you you're wrong for 47 seconds

1

Not sure if this is the same script, but I asked rarebit about a shadow script back on his old forums:

14:48

https://web.archive.org/web/20101128123522/http://smbhax.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=150

Supermassive Black Hole A*: Forum - View topic - Fan fiction?

14:49

Oh yeah it must be the same. Rarebit quote "Similarly, Metacortex being a sort of physical Achilles heel of the Matrix feels like a lowbrow interpretation of what I think were for the Wachowskis much higher level abstractions; I encountered MXO players, for instance, who thought that the thing for Zion or EPN to do was to invade the Government Building, and I always found that to be a silly thing to want to do: okay, you took over a simulated building. Congrats. For the Wachowskis, the existence of the Matrix hinged on a complex and significantly abstract process of human belief and Machine desires, not on knocking down a building."

14:52

He has also mentioned on his forums that the idea of people as batteries was meant to represent the symbiotic relationship between man and machine. People picking apart the idea technically have sort of missed the point. You might even find it in this wayback archive....

good to know, thanks for bringing that up

sure. Surf around in that wayback forum, there are a few interesting threads in there! Rarebit was pretty forthcoming with things he was involved in. Except SOURCE CODE lol

the thing that made me consider it might have been genuine was especially that "throwing shit against the wall and see what sticks" approach. cause i know that from my own creative projects - it starts out with a couple of ideas yet in the final result they end up being hardly recognizable

14:58

and ill def. check it out

Its pretty well written, but there are other clues in the one Im referencing : some out of character swearing, some weird sort of forced metaphors (like then metacortex building), etc

true, but i was chalking that up to it being a draft

15:01

but didnt the idea of metacortex being important for the systems infrastructure make it into mxo in some way?

15:02

or am i confusing things

not that I recall, but I forget a lot of stuff lol

15:02

Some things in the game people read a lot into, but for me they were just game devices to entertain players

15:04

I think Rare even talks about the Neo code bit search as something to do in game, because it was possible - very few in game Dev tools to create content

15:05

I also seem to remember that's the reason that we had the oligarchs - making use of some wire frame models they had for content.....

thats kinda dumb isnt it? limiting your devs like that

15:05

especially for a franchise where theoretically anythings possible

Ask Rajko about what there is and how well the dev stuff is written

15:06

Rarebit does talk about that in the available wayback forums

15:06

IIRC, the lithtec engine was used for mxo, and never again another game

that doesnt sound good actually

hah

15:07

yep

i can understand why he wants to port it to UE4

yes 100%, but thats very modern compared to what was available in the early 2000's when the game was being developed

15:10

you needed a fairly good machine back in the day to run mxo

i wonder how much of that is just bad or redundant code

15:11

i mean the game looks and works nice but it aint exactly spectacular either

15:12

but alright were talking about a 2005 game

15:14

guess carrying a 2005 game over to the beginnings of the HD and 3rd gen console era is always a bit problematic

also, the game released in 2005, it was in dev for a couple years

probably one of the first of its kind wasnt it

they had other engines, @rajkosto is the expert on this stuff

gotcha

I think he means more in a false prophet kind of way?

@Metalogic Yes. In that regard

23:15

But also someone many thought was the one before Neo was found

@Deleted User in that Wachowski chat from the Warner Bros website they did mention wanting to do something with one of the previous ones at some point

@Neomatrixology Hopefully pending the success of the Matrix 4, that can become a reality.

I am also writing on my own lore of the Matrix set before neo about a group of discontent people in Zion who leave to set up a new settlement where they try to get the one.

trainingprograms

3

If the channel should ever grow big enough to produce Matrix fan art in animated forms or otherwise I would've checked here first...stretch goals

Agent Grey told Cryptos “There is no such process” regarding reinsertion.

18:09

That doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Only that it hasn’t been done yet.

18:10

Is Cypher the first human to strike such a deal with the machines?

18:10

Making Cryptos the “second,” barring player created stories.

or they lied to Cypher, and there is no such process :p

18:46

(and Cryptos obv)

Well, they agreed with Cypher but didn’t work out the details because he died and Neo rescued Morph before Smith could get codes

Lying to cypher does not necessarily mean they lacked the technology. If they can turn humans beings into batteries, group think neural processors, or whatever I'd say bringing one back from the dead is light work

yeah, in the end whats the problem?

22:24

only thing i can imagine is theyd have to perform a gigantic memory wipe

22:25

also wasnt there a comic featuring a guy being reinserted?

I think so. Although, I have to re-read the comics. And read some for the first time.

I think it's called saviors

Hey, why did the machines need codes to the Zion mainframe....to stop the redpills from jugging in?

It’s not explained in the movies, but I figured it was to override the gates so they didn’t have to drill.

16:06

Maybe weapons and defense, too

I never stopped to think about it before lol

Yeah I always thought it was just to disable their defenses, communication, reconnaissance, and just walk in and mop up

16:15

The no need for agents to hunt redpills

16:15

Agent Smith: "Once Zion is destroyed there is no need for me to be here, don't you understand?"

Yeah I guess, just interesting that in the end it didnt matter.

like linkin park yo

16:19

It mattered, it was just a huge effort with shit tons of machine casualties. With the kodez, destroying Zion would have been a cakewalk

So the codes are part of the cycle of the One, to push Neo to be the One

16:34

They must rebuild the diggers every 100 years

but they have gotten exceeeeeedingly efficient at it (edited)

16:36

the codes are what!?

the music industry code

thats possible

Increasingly efficient at it. They know exactly how to build the diggers and where to dig. Even account for the iron ore they encounter that slows them down a bit

he says increasingly? I hear exceedingly

16:38

have to relisten

exceedingly

Exceedingly

so if they dig every 100 years, why do they have to dig every 100 years?

16:39

arent the passages thru the iron ore there?

Literally, a plot Hole

unless Zion moves

16:40

hahahah well said

Maybe they fill the holes and those become the Unpilotable mechanical lines

maybe....but by definition mechanical lines are things a city has for sanitary sewer, underground electric and access

16:43

then again, maybe the machines make them LOOK like mechanical lines. Although these would go to the surface, which wouldnt make sense in that respect

Lazarus speculated that the machines built the hovercrafts

16:46

So maybe the machine clean up Zion and get it ready for the next cycle

All the Hovercraft plaques have years that date either during or just before the 2nd renaissance. So yeah, I think that the Versatran ad was the same hovercraft tech. Maybe it was released to the military first like the Hummers, but either way, I imagined they were made by the machines while 01 business was booming up until the full on Nuclear Offensive. As far as the clean up, I'm no Geologist, but is it possible that a century is long enough for the holes to have filled with debris or shifted naturally?

22:02

Neo: Where is it? Tank: Deep underground, near the earth’s core where it’s still warm.

If Zion is always in the same place (who knows lol) , why wouldnt the machines make sure they had an easy access to it for when its needed

"That sounds like exactly like the thinking of a machine to me"

lol

'Nah brah let's drill in fresh every time'

Adds to the drama

Zion resident 1: 'Have you ever wondered what that gigantic door is at the top of the dome?' Zion resident 2: 'Nope.'

"its probably fine"

"I've never seen it open so it probably doesn't"

hahahah

14:52

I heard Neo made it

hha

HE IS THE ONE doormaker

Who are you?? I am the doormaker!

lol

14:53

why is the keymaker such a big deal, didnt they have Ace Hardware in 1999

But it is possible that Zion was rebuilt in different locations, but it's so absolutely gigantic and has all the climate control shit, it's absolutely mammoth. It's illogical to build Zion somewhere else imo

14:54

Also how'd they get all those solid steel doors down there

14:54

and all that gear to clean the eair

orite the machines

its magic

MaGiC

maytrix magic

Also, my big 'wuuuuut' are the gates

yeah

fifty zillion metric ton solid steel/iron doors

14:55

with enormous chains on god sized pulleys

also the lightning guns, and the mechtank guys

the lightning guns I could see as a machine built gizmo

EMPs: our only defense

14:56

except bullets

14:56

and electric

oh yeah all that ammo lol

lol

stockpile of tens of millions of rounds of like 20mm shells

hahahh

tank killers

and chemicals to make powder

14:57

etc etc

14:57

doesnt make sense the machines would make those

I wish I could bleep out "knuckle up" every time it's said (edited)

ugh

14:57

light as a feather, light as a feather

This is a #matrix-films discussion I think

hahah

14:58

I have to jet to a meeting

We're muddying up #matrix-lore with nitpicky criticisms of our favorite movie

9am till 4pm - meetins every HOUR

14:58

hahahahah

14:58

The first is my Fav

14:58

Ill be back

indeed

14:58

the others ..... not so much

14:58

aight bro, don't forget to knuckle up

Image attachment

+---

I mean, giving Zion ineffective weapons against Squiddies sound like the thinking of the machines. Remember, they had to keep up the façade of choice and free will in the previous cycles of The Matrix, so giving them bullets that barely pierce the armor plating of the squiddies or EMP that can only be used as a last ditch effort make sense. (edited)

The bullets seemed pretty effective in the dock....

13:39

just too many sentinals

You needed a hailstorm of bullets to take down one squiddy.

13:39

I wouldn't call that effective.

dude, they were killing the shit out of them

13:40

also, how do you know?

13:40

All I'm saying is that compared to other ways, the bullet were ineffective.

there was one sentinal for every person in Zion

Wait, were the rocket launchers Zion made or do you think they were given by the machines?

and those things were moving around

I'm thinking the rocket launchers were Zion made.

they looked pretty steampunk

Yea

13:43

So they were def Zion made

Yeah dude those bullets looked like one shot, one kill

13:59

rounds per minute and squiddies falling per minute looked pretty equal (When they were emerging from the hole)

14:00

And yeah those RPGs looked like they could have been made from spare parts, and they loaded the shells themselves. I actually never thought about that one

14:01

Wonder where they got the propellant and explosive to load the shells with lol

Probably from the same place they got the gunpowder for the bullets

the magic sulfur and salt peter deposits

I mean, they live in caves. Wouldn't surprise me if they found (and mined) mineral deposits.

where'd manufacturing tools to make shell and bullet casings come from

15:28

if you start to deconstruct Zion, it sort of falls apart

15:30

Only because we know from the architect that they destroy it over and over - if that wasnt the case, you might say its all just leftover tech from when the world was still going full steam, and civilization dug in and created zion when the man/machine wars started (edited)

15:33

I would have even bought that Zion started in that underground Cheyenne military base inside the mountain....massive, meant to support life without the outside world

I don't see how the machines having destroyed Zion previously voids the next cycles ability to scavenge as long as they have hovercraft. The Architect also tells us that the previous ones accept the terms & are in on the lie.

21:13

Neo: It’s a city? Tank: The last human city. The only place we have left.

21:13

Neo: So is this the same Oracle that made the prophecy? Morpheus: Yes. She’s very old. She’s been with us since the beginning.

21:15

If the informants come through in the previous cycles, or a captain "breaks" they could just stroll through the gates with the codes. But let's say they have to bring in the recycling team, drag the bodies out, and reconstruct Zion for the sake of appearance. The first settlers are taking their history lessons from the Oracle, she can sell them whatever BS she wants. There should be lots of supplies already there, left behind from the previous group that was slaughtered.

So, if the machines rebuild the city each time (or some times) why wouldnt they leave a way to get back in easily instead of having to break in the hard way? Do you think the Neo cycle was the first time they've destroyed Zion?

21:37

And even if they've never had to drill in before, if they built Zion, wouldnt they leave a way to get in? (edited)

wouldnt that undermine the illusion

Once the city is fortified, humans have about 100 years to put up defenses and close up gaps

say zion is presented as kind of an abandoned bunker, it wouldnt make much sense to not have it fortified as much as possible

TV Neos: Bullshit! Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses, but rest assured, this will be the sixxth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it. (edited)

1:30

The Trainman tells us in the subway with Niobe that the machines took "72 hrs" to destroy it & the Architect confirms the 5 times before were successful, if they had the codes or not is not referenced or discussed (edited)

1:37

Cypher being the informant was an attempt at creating easy access to the front, again not sure if that was the first try. So to answer the question about building a back door, I'd echo on V's reply, that the machines are supposed to pretend like they don't know where it is to maintain the facade until given the order to attack. So that gives the human population of Zion a century to plug any holes or leaks. The Architect was confident that whatever they did, wouldn't really matter. They took over the entire world, doubt he was sweating over one underground bunker, that they built themselves (edited)

next question is: how much do agents know about the cycle

2:22

seems like a logical task to squeeze the access codes out of captains, but what will the machines do with them anyway, when will they use them, HOW will they use them etc

2:23

in the end the path of the one must be completed, so if the machines get access codes it may facilitate the ultimate destruction of zion, since all defenses can be taken out easily, but they may wait to use them til the moment of destruction comes

2:24

like a safe, you can either figure out the combination or just break it apart using brute force

2:26

so i guess the whole agents looking for access codes thing really doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things. agents probably get assigned tasks like these as a possible easy way out , but i dont think they understand the deeper complexities of the situation

Smith 1: That went as expected. Smith 2: Yes. Smith 1: It’s happening exactly as before. Smith 2: Well, not exactly.

2:27

Pretty sure it is safe to assume at least Agent Smith is aware of the previous cycles. We know Merv & co are aware too

well they may be aware of the fact that there were several ones, but not necessarily of the whole complex behind it

2:29

especially smith doesnt seem to care much about anything beyond his own purpose of destruction

also if they knew about the grander scheme why would agents target the keymaker who was integral to the path of the one

That's only after he is corrupted by the Anomaly code, which some one here before described as something like the manifestation of free will which I thought was pretty accurate. Prior to Neo copying the code onto him, Smith just wanted out of the Matrix, not destroy it. Destroy Zion sure, but to address your previous statement, he wanted the cycles to stop in the first Matrix film, but I often think that he didn't realize the full "complex" scheme of the Oracle until he copied himself onto Seraph who "protects that which matters most", right after that is when he calls the Oracle "mom"

2:38

The Keymaker is a separate issue

2:39

I can't remember if I talked about this with V or Star or both... but the Agents are absolutely trying to terminate the keymaker & Neo. Yet no matter what they do, the one still meets with the Architect, consider it a trial by fire

2:40

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which, despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably… here.

the smith issue honestly seems like a huge contradiction to me. on one hand he knows that there were several ones so he mustve been part of previous iterations of the matrix or at least have some knowledge of its history

2:45

on the other hand hes convinced that theres no need for him to be in the matrix once zion is destroyed

2:46

shouldnt he know better?

That's why I think they previous cycles didn't give up the codes... I think he thinks if he kills Neo Before he makes it to the Architect that he gets his medal of honor & exit from the Matrix

that makes sense

Which is why he was why he was sooo pissed when he kills neo & then Neo just getz rezzed lol

the question is: what if something goes wrong and the one has a fatal heart attack in the real world or the keymaker is killed, do they have spare replacement neos and keymakers for emergencies?

2:49

i mean you could explain the ones success with the oracle predicting whats gonna happen

There's the rub... that simply doesn't happen...

2:50

Cypher: Don’t hate me, Trinity. I’m just the messenger, and right now I’m gonna prove it to you. If Morpheus was right, then there’s no way I can pull this plug. I mean if Neo’s The One, then there’d have to be some kind of a miracle to stop me. Right? I mean how can he be The One if he’s dead?

2:50

There is always some miracle

makes it all more likely that the oracle just picks a definite one out of many potentials

2:53

"i really dont like that anderson guy, but well have to pick him this time, cause the other guy is just gonna jump out of his pod and die once he wakes up. and dont get me started on the guy in LA, you dont wanna know whats gonna happen to him..."

2:58

under that premise, who knows, maybe the agents will never even get the codes for zion

I don't think they use The Keymaker for every cycle. I'm pretty sure the previous ones all had their own way of getting to The Architect and the end of the path of The One. As for Smith, I think he was clouded by his own desires to escape The Matrix & once he became a virus, he realized there is no escape for programs like him, so he just started tearing shit apart. I think his own selfish desires clouded him to the bigger picture.

It was implied that we was going to spread to the machine city. Maybe from there destroy Zion himself.

17:08

Assassin had a similar “motive”.

What was The Assassin motive? The only thing I remember about him is he was an exile made up of flies & he killed Morpheus.

His corrupted program NPCs dropped files with his thoughts recorded.

17:57

Death makes all equal, he was out to destroy the matrix to scorn the machines

Okay, if he wanted to scorn the machines, why kill Morpheus? Wouldn't he be pro-Morpheus or pro-code bomb?

After he killed Morpheus he decided to bring the matrix down

18:07

Something about the Merovingian withholding protection

Ahh

What are The " white glowing characters " in The couple of last story chapters?

Are you talking about the wireframe people?

Think so, They was " looking for sometihing " in The last of The story arc They had white code around them

18:34

Image attachment

Is this for a screenrant article?

Yea, they're the Wireframe people. Supposedly they were humans in a settlement outside of the machine's control, I don't know how they made this deal, but then something started happening where they needed the Biological Interface Program (BIP) so they started jacking into The Matrix (without plugs or jacks) to find it.

18:36

I think Trinity was the BIP

So story is cutting with last chapter chapters There was some continuations ? (fan-made) or something?

@arn Did you used to play?

Nah

18:51

Was too young to Play it ... i was once on website but didn't know English so only Saw couple of pics and trailer xd

They weren't all wireframe, but yeah those are The Oligarchs

It is known what they was looking for?

Apples

They wanted to compare apples and oranges, but the Matrix code wouldn’t allow it

Its the smell

Yeah that's what I meant. (edited)

if there is such a thing

18:43

I feel saturated... by it. i can TASTE your STINK, and every time I do I feel I've been somehow infeted by it (edited)

18:43

It's repulsive

is there a special meaning for eyes in the movies?

What do you mean?

we got heroes and agents with sunglasses, the transformation into an agent starts with the eyes turning completely brown, the smith overwriting process ends with the eyes/sunglasses and the first thing that lights up when the smiths is destroyed at the end of 3 are their eyes

19:15

so i wonder if that means something

Probably something to do with eyes being the window into the soul.

1

But I would also say sometimes sunglasses are just sunglasses.

makes sense

It's an interesting thought, when agents overwrite bluepills so they can patrol or control whatever is going on inside The Matrix, do they un-write themselves from the bluepill, or is that person just dead?

in enter the matrix we see an agent leaving a swat officer, that guys alive and well, just confused how he got there

"Ugh, gotta stop going to the bar."

i always wondered why agents need to possess bluepills anyway

They need to move in and out of programs, and RSI are basically programs that we control

yeah but i meant why not just appear out of thin air

I'd imagine that would awake a lot of bluepills in their pods

efficientcy

Not good when you need the computing power of those bluepills

and a random person turning into a martial arts fighter with a suit and sunglasses doesnt?

Also I should make a correction, any program still connected to The Matrix

19:26

So that exclude Exiles

19:26

Exiles and redpills

have them appear in the mens room of any restaurant nearby or something, nobody will notice

I'd love to see a fully dressed Agent just walk out of a Waffle House restroom at 2AM

19:27

That'd be hilarious

19:27

Just a fun tip, you never go to Waffle House, you end up at Waffle House.

is it that bad?

19:28

im german, we dont have waffle house here

It wouldn't be my first choice in dining

19:28

Like I said, if it's 2AM and you're hungry because you got the munchies, it's probably the only place open where you won't stand out.

For no other reason it gives us the cool story aspect that everyone is enslaved, and the machines can and will use you for whatever they need.

yeah i see

You are not in charge of any aspect of yourself.

but its always implied that theres a certain choice - do you accept the program and are you willing to protect it or not

agreed.

in "detective story" trinity told the detective he didnt make it when he turns into an agent, ive always interpreted that as a sign that he wont let go of the matrix no matter what

ok

maybe the rules of the matrix, for some reason, require programs to have RSIs with fully simulated organisms as well, for realism and updating an already existing complete RSI is easier than creating one from scratch

Could be. I try not to speculate too much. Maybe's and Could Be's are more down the road of creating your own head cannon. Also I am a firm believer that the Director will let us know the stuff we need to pay attention to. Does the fact that Neo laces his boot one way vice the other have any significant meaning to the story or are you giving it significance by asking the question?

2

true, but i think its still fun sometimes

19:39

especially when it comes to such a detailed world as the matrix

I wouldn't put too much stock into the morphs, the Visual Director John Gaeta hated the way they came out & more or less said he got the job done in time, but it sounded to me like it was a get what you get situation in the end

Agents can't appear out of thin air for the same reason agents can't breath fire when they want or just use a machine gun on the rebels, they're bound to the rules of the very carefully crafted system. To appear out of thin air would mean the agents would have powers that supersede their position and make them impossible to delete if they go into exile. It's probably the reason they don't have the twins ghost like ability: it causes more problems than it solves. Remember when Smith said to Seraph that chasing him was like chasing a ghost? I think Seraph had a power like that at one stage but it was taken from him (wingless). So by bounding agents to bluepills it means that they are bound to the same rules as everyone else in the system and are not God like dieties who break all the rules of what is a mathematically harmonious equation.

that....makes a lot of sense

That is an interesting point but I wonder to what extent can the rules of the Matrix be bent? I know the key maker could make keys out of thin air.

7:14

Even though he was an exile.

I think if you're part of the system, you can't bend the rules, you're bound by them.

12:42

However, if you're an exile or redpill, you can bend the rules.

^

Exiled programs can operate contingent on their programmed abilities and limits. Because they are not human, they cannot bend the rules if they have not been accessed that ability in their code. That is because their whole existence is a code, unlike humans. Also, any bluepill is technically able to do things a redpill can, it is just that because the bluepill doesn't know the truth he does not even seek to do and try such things. (edited)

Im inclined to agree with the exile part, but Im not so sure about the bluepill part. Unlike a redpill who has been freed, bluepills are still hardwired into the system..that may prevent them from violating the parameters of the code: gravity for instance.

We see the key maker cutting keys while being held hostage by the Merovingian in Reloaded & Enter The Matrix. My interpretation of that programs skill set was simply one that got out dated or replaced by an upgrade or change in the system. But he was still functioning within the system, just using old rules, or old code that still worked.

Image attachment

I think when a program becomes exiled, they develop human characteristic. I always thought it showed that The Keymaker was just bored and keeping himself busy til Neo showed up.

As far as the blue pills, it isn't really explained if the potentials like the spoon boy were unplugged at the time we see them with the Oracle. We know that he is in Zion 6 months later in Revolutions, but are all those kids really aboard hovercraft? The Animatrix episode World Record, also shows the Athlete bending the rules, however, to the point of still being hardwire connected, he was monitored and caught

2:22

@Metalogic I think we talked about this in V's podcast maybe, about how the Merovingian provides choice or controlled opposition for the exiles. Even the Ramakandra and the programs in the real world who choose to go against the system, or express free-will, they had to go through the Merv... in a way, so did the General... but basically, when a program starts to get all human "I do what I want" in their system, they have to see the Merovingian one way or the other (edited)

I always thought The Merovingian was the go-between for programs because he's the one who controls the Trainman. Only The Trainman can ferry Exiles from the Machine World to The Matrix.

2:24

Of course, this doesn't explain how Smith came back as a Virus, I doubt he went through Merovingian's channel.

OK I asked this before... and I know the general used the Merv to get his army out... but did they use the Train system to get in?

2:24

Smith didn't have real world hard ware.... he was already in

2:25

He was supposed to leave

I think The General hacked his way in originally but once he became part of The Merovingian crew, his Army was downloaded into an area inside The Matrix that's under The Merovingian control.

Key quote from the Keymaker, “We do only what we're meant to do.”

22:22

The Merv still traffics (or routes) all the information in the Matrix.

22:23

The trainman still ferries programs into the matrix.

22:23

Seraph still guards that which is most important.

22:23

Oracle is still head shrinking humans.

22:24

Architect is still sitting in his chair with a stick up his ass.

No no, he holds the stick in his hand, with that pen

so the whole matrix is basically a complete disaster from an admins perspective

The Matrix is basically made up of self learning, self determining programs.

22:25

It's like a group project

22:25

so yea, a complete disaster.

22:27

The Architect is the anal retentive, The Oracle is the hippie flower child, Seraph is the silent but strong presence, The Trainman is virtually useless because he prefers to play in his own sandbox and The Merovingian is trying to outsource his part of the project to weaker programs.

for some reason i gotta think of those facebook chatbots

22:28

they developed their own language but obviouslyy it was garbage

Oh, you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnzlbyTZsQY

AI vs. AI. Two chatbots talking to each other

22:29

This is fucking hilarious

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybradley/2017/07/31/facebook-ai-creates-its-own-language-in-creepy-preview-of-our-potential-future/#3a610776292c i meant this

Facebook AI Creates Its Own Language In Creepy Preview Of Our Poten...

In a glimpse at what the beginning of the technological singularity might look like, researchers at Facebook shut down an artificial intelligence platform after the bots went off script and developed a unique language that humans could not understand.

22:30

although its a bit cynical to use stephen hawking as a thumbnail for an article about chatbots,...

The Merv, either through or with the Trainman does actually offer programs from the machine city the ability to exist after they have been marked for deletion, which can be looked at as a programs system of choice, to mirror the humans own choice.

aaaaaaaaand i see that the article offers nothing of use. sorry

22:31

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/facebook-artificial-intelligence-ai-chatbot-new-language-research-openai-google-a7869706.html here this one describes the convo

Facebook robots shut down after they talk to each other in language...

'you i i i everything else'

Very "Colussus: The Forbin Project" (1970) (edited)

0:23

Minor spoilers but two AI begin talking to each and eventually the humans lose control Highly recommended

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kyOEwiQhzMI

ScreamFactoryTV

Colossus: The Forbin Project (1970) - Official Trailer (HD)

0:42

Definitely always thought of that one as one of the many origins of The Matrix

So here's something that's never really been addressed. Who is Deus Ex Machina? It's easy to say he's The Architect in machine form, but I don't think he is. For one he emotes a lot more than The Architect does. "We don't need you! We need nothing!" Also, he seems more knowledgeable about what's Smith is doing than The Architect. The scene where Neo meets Deus Ex Machina is supposedly after Smith has taken over The Matrix, so The Architect would have also been turned into a Smith.

0:58

Out of all the "citizens" of Zero One and The Matrix, ol' Deusi seem the most human.

Never thought of Deus ex Machina as The Architect, his only function is the design of the matrix. Just the place they use to put the minds of their batteries

I always thought 'god from the machine' referred to the 'singular consciousness that spawned an entire race of machines' that Morph mentioned in the first movie

1:20

Not sure why his face was a human infant tho

What if he was part machine, and part human? The machines experimented on humans during the Man-Machine War. What if one of those experiments resulted in Deus Ex Machina?

1:28

What if the early machines of Zero One successfully merged man and machine into a singular consciousness that spawned an entire race of machines?

1:28

and that singular consciousness is Deus Ex Machina?

well deus ex machina is a classic concept in theater so im not really sure its the actual name of that thing

Well in theater, Deus Ex Machina is simply a way to wrap everything up with a hand wave.

Quick fix to a doomed plot. (edited)

But back to the actual character Deus Ex Machina.

one could say he has a babyface cause hes still very young

1:39

for a being that has dominion over the whole world a couple hundred years are nothing

inb4 the machines merged the consciousness of an actual baby.

Not just a human face, but human baby. I think that was just a creative choice

or maybe its because the fact that its most likely inexperienced regarding being or living as a human this is the only appropriate form

(but also the actual character name is Deus Ex Machina, taken literally I can only assume)

cant appear as a wise elder cause it doesnt have any human wisdom

Not the figurative but 'god from the machine'

OR maybe its just mocking humans

1:42

"ha ha youre all babies compared to our machine wisdom"

I'm sticking to my original theory that Deus Ex Machina was a human merged with a machine consciousnesses.

spoon

1

1:43

As to why they didn't do this to the entire human race after the war, probably because it was too labor intensive or maybe they could only do it once and previous attempts have failed. So putting everyone in a virtual world was the next best solution.

so the BIP before there was a BIP

The Notorious B.I.P.

so whos his rival then, the twins?

1:45

cause, you know, two-pack

:|

1

1:45

okay that one was really bad

but if deus is a human merged with a machine that would add another spin to the whole idea of the matrix not as enslavement but as protection

Exactly

1:47

This is why I love this Universe, it's just layers upon layers

Again the protection thing goes way before the matrix. AI protecting humans from themselves is a long tradition of sci-fi

AI serving humans in general

I think it goes back to that robot that went "Danger Will Robertson, Danger!"

See: "Colossus: The Forbin Project"

why else would the first matrix be a "paradise" matrix

in animatrix when the machines were first rejected as a race they moved to saudi arabia and produced high tech stuff for humans. instead they couldve jjust set up a few power plants and live as a hermit nation

Smith lays that all out in the first movie, 'where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster'

when smith says it it comes across as just a logical equation: happy humans = no chance of dying from anything besides natural causes = lots and lots of energy

Wut, no he says it was a dream people kept trying to wake up from and entire crops were lost

i meant the original line of thinking before the whole project actually started

Without misery and suffering, we don't believe it's real. Was his point (edited)

"so, what shall we do with those pesky humans?" "lets give em a paradise, thatll keep em all alive" "uhm...."

I wonder if The Paradise Matrix would work with "Choice."

how deep does the concept of choice go anyway

It reverberate throughout the entire Matrix, it affects even the smallest equation.

is it just "yeah you can choose whether or not you get out" or is it a novel concept that enables people to choose even mundane things like what theyll have for dinner

I think the choice is whether or not to accept the program.

cause if its the latter i guess the paradise matrix only gave people what was "best for them"

It's funny I was just thinking about that line the other day: "Deus Ex Machina: We don’t need you. We need nothing."

At a near unconscious level.

1:56

What's an interesting thought experiment is whether or not the choice is made only one time, or if it's a choice that we unconsciously make every day to accept the reality presented in front of us.

id say every day

1:58

cause everytime you receive any kind of input you can choose not to believe

Oh jeez, could you imagine the amount of input and output a bluepill receive and send every day? I'm surprised The Matrix doesn't have any lag issue.

I thought the "we" means it isn't the Architect in machine form, at least not alone. But it seemed to me that unlike a We are the Borg that has a Queen of the Hive concept, that it was simply a representation of the collective to facilitate the conversation. Neo was in undiscovered territory. Not a voted council per say, and not speaking for everyone as we know, the General was against peace, but we saw other forms of machine representatives in the Animatrix too

1

2:00

Image attachment

i actually wonder how that one went. did they just round up all humans and plugged them in or did they start with artificially bred humans

It's depicted in the animatrix

You can see them collecting humans in the Animatrix

The first experimentees were 'prisoners of war'

yeah i remember scenes with them performing human experiments

2:03

but i wonder if they just killed them all and used bred ones for the beta launch

2:03

i mean if you can do all that surely you can produce maturation chambers so you wont have to wait lots of years to get started

2:04

get a fresh start. would save them the hassle of a massive memory wipe

Again Smith talks about crop loss. Not sure about those what ifs

I imagine that during those Beta days, where Smith talks about the crop losses related to the crash, the machines primary source of power was still either Nuclear or Geothermic heat. A combination perhaps. There is really no mention of accelerated growing techniques. It is also possible that not every human died during those crashes.

He said entire crops (implying more than one) were lost, but not all the crops were lost.

^

2:15

Many batches for different levels of development of a place for these people to 'live out their lives.' Of course the machines, after all this, wouldn't just be like 'whoops that didn't work, they're all dead.'

I'd imagine it's kind of like a Christmas light string. When one bulb (or more) goes out, the rest of them still stay on.

In The Matrix why are only particular phone lines possible exits? What makes an exit clean?

If you notice, the exits are either pay phones, or in an empty business or abandon room. So much like the Agents jumping from blue pill to blue pill, I imagine that a registered number, like something you could have found in a phone book, was likely traceable

I always wondered about the mechanics of the hardlines, like how did they dial into the specific phone?

the same way you go to a hardline in MxO

Well yes, but I'm talking about how do Operators get connected to the phone inside The Matrix?

I mean, its software right? Just like MxO

I'm just one of those weird people who like to know the nuts and bolts of things.

Well, they say they go to broadcast depth to hack the machines to broadcast their pirate signal - I assume they access some machine server/mainframe. They can see schematics of buildings....so its not a stretch to think they can see hardline information (edited)

I think the back door hack is a way into a system for coders. So they probably exploit the phone system to access the hardline through a back door.

18:33

Reprogramming it to extract the rsi/data

To anyone who wants to know more about the lore, I recommend you to watch the Animatrix

(a prequel to the Matrix

) https://youtu.be/ZmeYcBLY-OQ

Chris Stuckmann

The Animatrix - Movie Review

12:14

Its an film done by the Waschowski Brothers/Sisters

about the events before the start of the Matrix

itself. And also, let us also remember the advisor helped the Waschowskis wrote the Matrix Movie

; Jean Baudrillard, with his book "SIMULACRA AND SIMULATION"

. https://youtu.be/bf9J35yzM3E

Cuck Philosophy

What did Baudrillard think about The Matrix?

12:19

https://youtu.be/SDkAGkd4NLc (edited)

The Matrix Ending Explained: A Guide to Freeing Your Mind

12:26

He may had left to never continue any following Matrix Sequel Films

due to disagreements in which the direction following plot-holes has been heading into, and hence, this would lead in having a story that went differently with their audiences in the fandoms having different answers, theories to ideas of how it works and ends in

.

Image attachment

12:29

Channels may comment and make reviews as to why it has come into this: https://youtu.be/TROA_0RxZmM

The Matrix Reloaded: What Went Wrong? – Wisecrack Edition

12:31

https://youtu.be/EPK90OyczW8

Everything Wrong With The Matrix Revolutions In 17 Minutes Or Less

And in the end, I find it intresting to see why this film could create such a hype & an impact, and boy, did it created an community

‍

‍

‍

with diverse theories

that should be spoken and dissussed about espeically in the lore itself

. Some contraversial, others mysterious as its shrouded in uncertaintities❓. Perhaps an remake to the plot-holes

of the Matrix Franchise

would be a thing to think of and perhaps, let alone, make the film even more intriging

.

Image attachment

Animatrix was 2003.

1

5:13

If the agents were exiles in the last incarnation of the Matrix, will the possibly new incarnation of the Matrix restore the agents to their former abilities?

Not sure I understand the question cause we had Agents in Mxo? The answer is Smith did not return to the source because he had that Neo code making him all rebel like, but the typical Agents who are deemed obsolete are cool with the gold watch & return to the source?

5:37

One thing you reminded me of though, in 2003, I just naturally assumed the Matrix was reset at the end of revolutions... But, doesn't the Deja Vu cat suggest it was restored as opposed to reset. I feel like the Jury is still deliberating over the technicality of the 'reset' issue. This is something that might could may be addressed in Matrix 4 though

Restored.. morpheus

morpheus

not reset.. now that would be interesting

Up until last year, I always thought mxo took place in then6th version of the Matrix.

16:57

I watched a video that explained that after Neo destroyed smith, dues ex took the code from Neo and reloaded the Matrix rendering the 7th version and Neo’s eventual 7th iteration. My mind was kinda blown.

Link to video?

I would have to search to find it.

17:36

https://youtu.be/zo-MIQR9x60

The Ending of The Matrix Trilogy Finally Explained

17:36

Maybe https://youtu.be/SDkAGkd4NLc

The Matrix Ending Explained: A Guide to Freeing Your Mind

Looper video 10:04 Mark

That's funny because I was saying that I assumed Deus X "reset" making MXo the 7th version, but within the past year, I started to question that Take lol

So here's an interesting thought.

19:02

Let's say that in Reloaded, Neo did decide to take the door that would reboot The Matrix, allowed him to choose the next generation of Zion's inhabitants and perpetuate the cycle. Would that have gotten rid of Smith?

I'd vote yes, prior to him assimilating the Oracle, reset should have worked.

1

Yea, but Exiles have survived the rebooting of The Matrix, so something tells me that Smith would have as well.

19:55

But then again, the problem with Smith was that Smith was the System trying to balance itself out against Neo. Take away Neo and the system gets rid of Smith

Probably some smith clones escaped into constructs and would re-enter and re infect the Matrix. He made it into the backdoors!

20:37

But any Smith in the Matrix dueling reloading would be purged.

20:37

Source> Smith

then again, since a reload can only work with 100% acceptance, im not sure if smith, infected by neos code and urge to rebel, wouldnt have stopped a reboot entirely

then again, since a reload can only work with 100% acceptance, im not sure if smith, infected by neos code and urge to rebel, wouldnt have stopped a reboot entirely

@David T. Gregory What do you mean by this?

if i understand correctly the reason for the path of the one is to have neo as a stand in for all that have rejected the matrix in order to bring acceptance of the program back to 100% which for whatever reason is a necessary condition for a reload to be performed

20:48

but then we got smith running around with part of neos programming that forced him to reject and destroy everything

20:49

so can 100% acceptance of the matrix even be achieved with such a guy still in the system?

I think I understand. I will say yes as long as his rebellion is negated by someone like Neo

thats true, neo may also represent the smith anomaly

I don’t think understand your sentence about “in order to bring acceptance of the program back to 100% which for whatever reason is a necessary condition for a reload to be performed”

thats how i understood what the architect is saying

20:55

the matrix is slowly destabilizing due to human rejection of the program. in order to keep it operating a reload must be performed every couple of hundred years or so. the one representing all the rejections that have happened in the respective iteration of the matrix must choose to accept the program to make up for all the rejections in the past

20:55

then the matrix is reloaded

20:55

or did i get it wrong

20:57

ultimately my point is: if the one is required for a reboot, yet theres a guy out there who, in terms of the code hes carrying, is partially the one as well would it even work (edited)

@Metalogic So my thinking here, is that is one of the leverages that the Trainman & Merv have over the exiles... they could protect them from the resets. "72 hrs" we know that the trainman knows when the reset is coming, he could stash all the exiles somewhere "between" worlds. Trainstation, real world hardware maybe. And IF the Matrix Online, and the Era of peace meant no more resets, that might have been why the Trainman was comfortable with retiring, or rather, why the Merv agreed to his retirement

Not sure I understand the question cause we had Agents in Mxo? The answer is Smith did not return to the source because he had that Neo code making him all rebel like, but the typical Agents who are deemed obsolete are cool with the gold watch & return to the source?

@Neomatrixology Let me rephrase that, since every incarnation is a new matrix can agents who were in the previous incarnations of the matrix reobtain their abilities that they lost when they became exiled in the 6th matrix.

@Deleted User the only Agent I'm aware of going into Exile is Smith... my guess was that the non-upgrades returned to the source or were reassigned/repurposed

I thought the Angels in MxO were Agents from the First Matrix.

I thought Seraph was an Angel, but I don't know if that extended to Agents. I don't think Smith necessarily had to be in the Beta version just because he knew the history behind how it crashed.

Well Smith wasn't in the Heaven Matrix and he knew what happened

It's implied in the Pandora's Box lore that angels were the original "agents" in an early iteration of the simulation

3:43

they maintained order

3:43

I think

They were in the Heaven Matrix

3:44

NGL, I would love a movie about Seraph's life before he became a bodyguard for The Oracle.

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing that Seraph was a "white agent" or Angel. I just don't think Smith & Brown & Johnson, Gray Pace et al came from that version of the Matrix

Nah

Image attachment

trainingprograms

1

Each iteration of The Matrix were given new Agents.

3:51

So you had Angel Agents from the Heaven Matrix, you had The Twins who were agents from the Hell Matrix. Then you had the Men in Black style Agents from the "Cycle of the One" Matrix.

Totally agree

I thought the twins were just rogue ghost programs from a previous version

They are exiles

Commandos, monks, too

6:08

Sometimes they were upgraded within versions of the matrix.

6:08

Brown, smith and stone were phased out and Johnson, Jackson and Thompson were “upgrades”

6:09

Some of the older agents chose exile. Then Merovingian imprisoned them for safe keeping.

Hey, old topic, but I can’t remember the discussion details:

7:06

Was Rama Kandra the Assassin?

I don't think it was ever confirmed, but I remember the notion being passed around

I don't think he was. From Matrix: Revolutions Rama-Kandra: Oh, yes. I’m the power plant systems manager for recycling operations. From MxO Cinematic 2.1 The Merovingian: He is an obsolete disposal program. The Matrix mimics the process of creation, production, it's byproducts. Sewers, garbage. Persephone: He's not flesh and blood. He's a swarm of flies, thousands of flies.

14:45

Seems like Rama would've been the supervisor to The Assassin at one point.

That is what I always believed, he was the assasin's boss.

He could also be an actual disposal program. The Oracle said that there are programs for everything in Reloaded. So why not a program for flies, or bacteria to break down organic material or waste?

I would buy that the assassin started out as anaerobic bacteria.

Do machines promote their programs? Is there like a reward system?

15:00

Probably not

No. They are built and have a purpose. Well, I say that, but then there is Seraph, who was built for one purpose, but then was given another. So Yes. In some cases they can be promoted, or have their purpose altered.

To be fair, Seraph chose Exile

My original No was inreference to what the Keymaker says, "We only do what we are meant to do"

15:03

Yes, but was given a new purpose when the Oracle allowed him to protect her

True

I think the key is the actual phrasing of Seraph's purpose int he movies, "I protect that which matters most."

15:04

Seriously... WTF does that really mean

15:05

I can chose to interpret that multiple ways. And argue all of them.

code_frag_01

1

Wasn't that expanded upon in MxO to mean he protects humanity or something like that?

Maybe it was... I don't recall ever writing that down in any notes.

I think it was closer to the end

My assumption from the movies was that it meant the Oracle. But he let the Oracle get Smith'd by protecting Sati... but then she got Smith'd too. As did Seraph himself. If he is supposed to protect humanity, I would say he is failing miseribly because it seems people are dying in the matrix all the time. I guess I would have to see the context of that in the game again to really be able to buy it.

Yea, it was one of the LE

Maybe I am missing something

When he was an agent, he protected humans. Then chose exile and worked for Merv. Then defected to protect Oracle. At some point had wings cut off. Probably at defection.

See this is why we need a Seraph movie, there's so much there for some good story telling.

I hope there is a prequel that explains the fall of the first Matrix.

1:25

But this will all depend on the success of the Matrix 4.

I mean, Smith and The Architect pretty much summed up what happened to the Heaven Matrix. The humans wouldn't accept the program, which led to a system wide crash and entire crops were lost. The problem was that the program didn't allow the humans a choice to accept ore reject the program.

I'd like to see a young Merv story and I know the Wachowski's mentioned wanting to explore one of the previous ones. There is plenty of room for expanded universe nightmare versions of the Matrix stories. That's got stream series written all over it (edited)

3:40

A Seraph story could start in the first version and go all the way through Matrix Online

I would like to write a 10 episode season and pitch it

Anthology series. 1. The adventures of Choi and Dujour. 2. Escape from the stinky cave tunnels. 3. Switcharoo.

Start writing mang

A new take on the Matrix movies ... https://youtu.be/h2odoodmOJA

Matrix: The Real Story - Glossary

4. The Lonliest Squiddy.

It's funny. We call the sea cadets squiddys in cadet forces.

In the motorcycle world, squid/squiddies denotes a reckless, usually new rider, whos stupidity far exceeds his riding ability (edited)

Hah

You know, I see it now. I now see why the fight scenes in Reloaded and Revolutions (at least the one involving Neo) are terrible. There's nothing at stake. I mean, Neo exploded Smith from the inside out in the first Matrix movie. Anything after that is just going to feel like boring foreplay.

21:45

There's no stake, no drama, you know Neo is going to get out.

CGI

It's not that, it's just you know Neo is going to win, so the fight is ultimately pointless

oh, it was that for me

22:24

bowling pins and dominos ugh

22:25

The chateu fight was pretty cool

Don't forget the stretch armstrong CGI of Neo.

lol

But yea, for the most part the fights added nothing to the story and you already knew the outcome, so it was boring.

I disagree. In part 1, Agents were the most powerful. They were the measuring stick. Dodging bullets and killing with their bare hands. So Neo surviving a fight showed growth in his “Belief”. With Morpheus’ tutelage, Neo became the measuring stick in the sequels.

23:16

He was able to outfight Smith, 8 Smiths, almost outfight 80 Smiths.

That bowling pin sound effect though...

Neo fighting Exiles was to show us how powerful they were and why we should be concerned for Morpheus and Trinity on the freeway.

23:18

Then in Revolutions, Trainman and Smith were able to best Neo. Showing us how dangerous they had become.

The gimpy CGI didn't bother me at all... if there was ever a film to justify video game looking animations it'd be Neo inside the Matrix

23:21

I wanted to ask what the Belief stat enhances in game, but I forgot why I wanted to ask

I mean, you can click on it and it tells you

click-bait

bark-bait

23:25

@Neomatrixology

Image attachment

Thank Mlogic... still can't remember why I wanted to know though lol

23:27

Kung Fu tree masters wanted high belief maybe?

You are probably thinking CR1

Yes

Then it didn't matter at all. CT is the only thing that mattered.

I swear, the MxO's combat system was convoluted.

23:28

CT?

Combat Tactics

23:29

You could boost it with the pink shot

combat tactics determined who got the shot

23:29

in CR2 it was diversified into 6 kinds of dmg, resistance, tactics

Are we also talking about those purple and black pills?

they were purple injectors

nope

So what were the purple and black pill for?

back then on my old assed computer, it was pink

You get what I'm saying though

antibiotics ? they removed status effects

Oh okay

you could stop being a zombie if you took one

The only one I used was the health injector and the health pill.

Tactics booster was THE SHIT for CR1

23:30

could take down enemies 5 levels higher with it

Ya

I used to craft the fuck out of the health pills

23:31

As well as silver bullets and the wooden stake

Yeah a PVP silver bulet kill was always nice

I def remember having a stash of red & purple injections being a priority, was how I stayed alive against Seraph for so long but he obviously destroyed me anyways

I don't think stakes did much damage to people

23:33

looked cool though

I mostly used it on Exile Vampires

Here is a weird question. Does anyone remember the story behind the guys with the green heads that lived the the cave somewhere in the slums? They were called something like The Unclean or something.

The Ethereal boss?

That might be it. I thought there were a bunch of them but I could be confusing it with SWTOR or another game.

The unclean looked like blue pills walking the city streets at night. Different exile hideout, I think

The Unclean are a group of exiles that are looked down by the other exiles in the Matrix. It was believed that they used to be disease spreaders used by the machines in the previous version of the Matrix (Most likely the Nightmare version). They are led by Zero and can be found somewhere in Richland.

1:27

https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Unclean

The Unclean are a group of exiles that are looked down by the other exiles in the Matrix. It was believed that they used to be disease spreaders used by the machines in the previous version of the...

1:28

Ethereals are Exiles that form the basis of alien encounters in the Matrix. They take the form of aliens, possessing green skin and having the power to become invisible and intangible. They dwell underground and abduct bluepills in order to conduct experiments on them that vary depending on what they are doing and the results they aim to achieve. A few of them serve as bosses in particular Constructs or Exile hideouts

1:28

https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Ethereal

Ethereals are Exiles that form the basis of alien encounters in the Matrix. They take the form of aliens, possessing green skin and having the power to become invisible and intangible. They dwell...

1:28

I had forgotten all about that.

The Unclean sounds like victims of the Black Plague.

Matrix Wiki.... my arch-enemy...

1:38

Thanks V

1:39

So Ethereals were aliens. Makes sense with the green heads and no hair. (edited)

Too bad they didn't go with The Grays

1:41

Embedded image

1

1

Goliath is one of my favorite Matrix comics but if Matrix 4 goes full Crystal Skull I'm going to be pissed

https://www.crystalheadvodka.com/en/home

Crystal Head Vodka – Pure Spirit.

The Official Web Site of Crystal Head Vodka

I've seen that bottle in RL too just didn't know what it was... NGL it looks pretty cool on a bar with LED lights

I just want the bottle, I don't care about the Vodka

@69.5 please do tell the story of how the Matrix Wiki became the nemesis

Image attachment

Just had one of those random moments debating with myself in my head. What if in the events of the movie, some parts where they appear to have jacked out and are back on the neb are just simulations created by the machines to make them believe they are back in the real world and while they think people are alive and well, in the real world itself, the crew are being slaughtered. It's also weird since it's just a paradox of sorts with simulations in simulations in simulations in simulations type scenario. Also, whose to say the supposed real world is not just another layer of The Matrix?

Who is in charge of Zion’s archives?

9:35

Also, is there anyone who could theoretically jam the Matrix so that the simulation would crash or freeze?

@𝕿𝖍𝖊𝕯𝖗𝖆𝖌𝖔𝖓𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖙𝖊𝖗 The Production Designer & Cinematographer in the Ultimate Matrix Collection & the Wachowskis in the Warner Brothers Chat Transcript interview... 3 different people who made the film clearly define the differences between the Matrix & the real world. In a separate interview, the Wachowskis defined the "prophecy of the one" as the real world Matrix or construct. No where, in any dialogue, in any area of the Matrix media, or by any actor, or anyone who made the films, does anyone ever say, that zion is also stuck in a simulation. It's not sci-fi conspiracy. It simply isn't a thing. The Matrix is Not Inception: https://youtu.be/Exv5p3cYOUA

The Matrix Is NOT Inception: 2nd Matrix Level (Film Theory Debunked)

@Deleted User I am almost certain that the Zion Archive is a machine file, otherwise Morpheus would know who started the war. If you are asking which machines have access or if there is a hardware machine that is control I have no idea. Though I do not rule out the Oracle being the guide repurposed... (edited)

12:17

Image attachment

I see, @Neomatrixology

I think the Zion archive is man made and survived from Escher version of Zion. Morpheus vaguely mentions “We don’t know who struck first...”. In Animatrix, they cut to machines marching on human forces. It’s a detail that is vague

Don't forget the B1 Trial Zion archive is dated. Morpheus also says he doesn't know what year it is, but they think it's closer to 2199... he says 100 years in the cave rave, so that would give him a ball park 2239... it's possible that he would round down to the century. But the 2nd Renaissance does show who struck first. If he had access he'd have seen that humans initiated the agression not once but twice. I guess it's possible the council keeps the information classified or something like that. But I doubt the gold light aesthetic is coincidental

Could one of the many incarnations of the matrix crashed due to an overload, an inability to process fast enough, and a design?

And is it possible for there to be a deformed program?

Believe me... yes.

Image attachment

I wrote a couple malformed programs today.

god damn, 'beyond' is my favorite

Can a deformed program effectively become something entirely different?

7:44

In the sense, someone say a Merovingian could reprogram it?

I think so, but I can’t think of any examples

Become something entirely different than the programmer intended? Maybe. Partially. Depends on how bad the code was written; what the original intent of the code and what it actually does. If you can get access to the source code you could change the code or better yet copy it then change the copy.

Are there furry "servers" of the matrix to handle those residual self-images?

You know, it would've cost you nothing to not post that.

Hey, the Warchowskis brought it up.

0:07

i've been asking since like 2001 about a certain demographic in the matrix and no one can give me answer except, "The Matrix doesn't allow them to exist."

I think the Matrix Universe doesn't really allow such luxuries as fursonas.

0:08

In the Matrix Universe, The Matrix is supposed to be a dangerous place that redpills only go into when they need to go into The Matrix.

See, the furry thing is just an outgrowth of the original question which currently has been brought up again due to the various Warchowski interviews. Is it possible a man in the real world to be a woman in the matrix who wants to transition to be a man? Apparently the matrix would just have the person be a man because of residual self-image. Almost every question I have had (except for story and plot points) stems from the rsi explanation of why people look the way they look.

switch was planned to be a woman in the matrix and a man in the real world but the idea was nixed cause WB deemed it too complicated

13:19

and theres the comic "burning hope" which is about a child who can change RSIs at will

13:19

so with enough awareness and conviction you can truly be anything you want to be

Well, they deemed it too controversial, not complicated

14:03

Man, I don't think I read 'Burning Hope' yet, I still haven't gotten through my whole 20th anniversary collection

14:03

I started going front to back, then started skipping around (edited)

ah right the complicated one was using humans for processing power rather than for energy

14:27

wonder how that wouldve played out

It kinda did through MXO

what wouldve been the reason anyway, surely a machine civilization could build something entirely more powerful than a couple of human brains

14:31

whole thing mightve gone in a completely different direction, more like dark city

14:32

a species lacking a certain form of comprehension and thus exploiting humans to gain it

That may be true if the whole story was about the evil machines that maliciously enslaved and or wiped out the human race, as we got in the first film. But that isn't really what happen in the entire Matrix story. In the Matrix story, when the machines bested the humans, humanity wasn't destroyed, it was preserved. The machines gave humanity a purpose. Whether that was as a power plant or processing power... humanity was still part of the new Machine world. The machines bent over backwards to please humanity ('please' is probably not the right word but I haven't had full cup of coffee yet); they built a world for humanity that served both the machines and the humans. I think rather than exploiting humans, they were, in a fashion including them, as when humanity ruled the world, the machines had desired to be a part of our world. I think that the fact that the machines did not completely exterminate humans, shows their recognition of humanity as their creators, and a desire to one day to reconcile with them.

I agree 100%, and I think that was the intent. Machine (which is "of man") in a scary symbiotic relationship with man. I read or saw the W's speak of this years ago. The Matrix was capturing the societal change being made by the internet, cell phones, widespread use of computers - and its scary implications. We were only starting then to become reliant on their use in our everyday life.

15:43

And, in the following years, all the interconnectivity was seen as very positive - so the continuing of the Matrix story didnt make sense. I think Rarebit spoke of this in his forums....

so basically the equivalent of hiring someone out of sympathy and not because of their skills

I don't think that is what either @sixxth or I was saying.

1

idk in my head a scenario of inclusion would play out differently

15:49

with more active participation

fix your head

thats just my opinion though

1

Nah, I see where you are coming from. "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept." Maybe that quote could apply to inclusion as well. I know, it's speculation and I try to steer away from it when I can, but there you go.

its probably a matter of personal definitions

15:56

in my view inclusion requires the ability to participate with the whole on a meaningful scale

I guess it would be more akin to compartmentalized inclusion.

the matrix, to me, is as i mentioned above like hiring someone incompetent out of sympathy, getting them a nice lovely office but only giving them work to keep em busy, keeping them out of any company decision process, basically lock them up so they cant do any harm to the company

16:00

and if one day for some strange reason they manage to make a competent decision or produce something good you use it, but if not, at least no damage has been done

yeah that makes sense

might even be the better choice because of their presumed incompetence but its not really inclusion to me

So, the what they are doing, why are they doing isnt the important part of the Matrix. Whether its power or CPUs, the point is to create the dependant nature that both have on one another. All the other stuff is just plot device

1

thats true although when you have a multi-layered franchise like the matrix its easy to try and find meaning for several things that may or may not just be a plot device

definitively. Theres a lot going on.

That's why it was such a relief to hear Lilly Wachowski use the term "non-linear". Felt so validating because I use it all the time when talking about the Matrix universe experience. The problem is that so many people are stuck in their linear thinking mode, that some can only see something so very layered as only one thing. It is many things showcasing many elements.

17:50

I wouldn't say that the machines viewed the humans as incompetent, but I definitely agree with the element of the machine having sympathy as shown by the Guide of the Zion archive at the end of the 2nd Renaissance. I also agree with 69.5 referring to humanity as the machines creator, I believe that there is certainly a strong piece of that in the foundation of the symbiotic relationship

17:51

The solution to their creator being so very dangerous to both Machines & humanity itself was a prison industrial complex.

spoon

2

honestly incompetence was only something i used for the example cause itd make less sense if it was about a company hiring someone whos dangerous

What if the machines were just trying to save humanity and live peaceably with humanity? i mean, humans started the war. humans darkened the sky. in the animatrix, there is that one story where a machine tries to give a human immortality.

Watch "Colossus: The Forbin Project"

4:15

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064177/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

Colossus: The Forbin Project (1970) - IMDb

Directed by Joseph Sargent. With Eric Braeden, Susan Clark, Gordon Pinsent, William Schallert. Thinking this will prevent war, the US government gives an impenetrable supercomputer total control over launching nuclear missiles. But what the computer does with the power is uni...

I was thinking of the book series Rings of the Master by Jack Chalker.

23:35

But that works jsut as well

As far as Matrix YouTube channels go, which one would you consider holding position of the 'best' out of each and everyone one that you have come to know?

NeoMatrixology

block

1

speed

2

4:29

As far as the game, Sky jackal has a great collection of game videos.

4:30

If you’re talking just movies, I can’t pinpoint one since YouTube was created well after the trilogy debuted

And I'll vote for @VesuveusMxo, consistency. Daily content on IG & Twitter to supplement. Some very rare gems on his Youtube channel and in the podcasts. When I started, it was the only other Matrix exclusive content that I found that was still active. Anything else either stopped posting or does more than just Matrix related content

speed

2

https://resistance2010.com/forum/topics/download-the-code-to-the The link that says "The Code To The Matriz.pdf, 39mb"

DOWNLOAD THE CODE TO THE MATRIX

This is it, now the ball is back in your court everything you need to know is now at your grasp. Internal download link can be found below next to attachme…

What is this bullshit?

Wtf is this lol

This is some pseudo-religious-philosophy bullshit

the matrix has opened up peoples minds to the idea that not everything we see is true - eg media

22:30

unfortunately some folks werent able to stomach that idea

22:30

they "are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."

1

22:31

congrats, world. now we see what happens if you disconnect a bunch of bluepills from the matrix without them being able to bear the responsibility of being a free spirit

1

The Matrix is a lot of things, but Lana Wachowski herself describes the Trilogy as a "construction of meaning" & admits that they attempted to capture the essence of metaphysical religious texts. Thus allowing the audience to participate and find their own meanings. Especially since they don't directly explain every single detail of the films. Where I get annoyed though, is that then people get so attached to their own ideas, when the creators of the Matrix say they intended for this representation , or did not intend for that interpretation, or flat out say something was or was not a thing... people will flat out say they know more about it than the people who made the movie. (edited)

in that case it mustve been a good adaption, considering that this is what happens with any religios text

info

1

Its not "inert"

12:32

its inured

12:32

"You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system..." (edited)

12:33

quite different meanings....

my bad, not a native speaker and didnt even know that word existed

13:42

and inert seems to make sense as well in this context

just being pedantic, dont mind me

I think it’s inert, as in inertia and resistance to movement.

it's inured, as in accustomed

23:12

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6410378-the-matrix-is-a-system-neo-that-system-is-our

A quote from The Matrix

The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpente...

nah, yeah its inured

I can’t find many scripts. The only one I found said “inured”. I had thought that’s what he said, but didn’t know that word. I looked it up a long time ago and found a script that said “inert”, didn’t know that word either, looked it up and it made sense.

someone should tweet lana and ask her to settle the debate

But there is no debate

20:26

Its in the script

20:26

20:28

makes sense contextually as well if you look at the definition

This is a (ridiculously long) link to a script PDF: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiZ0fPI9qzrAhWsRBUIHTCYCCMQFjAAegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailyscript.com%2Fscripts%2Fthe_matrix.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2gZxLDIQgxD_zOwmo2GZAT

Yeah it’s inured. I think we can move on to argue about other words, lol

Is it The Matrix, or The Matrix?

Ok, I’d like to open this back up for discussion, cuz I just searched: matrix script "so inert" and got a bunch of results. So I’m not the only one

sigh

0:22

I feel like we're picking at straws here

I'm sure you got tons of results, poor transcripts

0:51

people that didn't know the word 'inured' so heard it as 'inert,' the closest approximation, and it kinda fits the context.

just check subtitles on the movie

Or, go stalk the Wachowski Sisters and ask them

option b is obviously more practical

Probably more likely to make contact with Fishburne. I don’t think Lana has an account. Lily does but doesn’t post much

It's been like 20+ years though, I doubt Fishburne would remember (or care.) (edited)

“Hey, Cowboy Curtis! Can you solve the stupidest argument for us?”

LOL

1:14

"So Lawrence, huge fan, big fan of you. Me and a couple of my nerdy friends have a stupid argument we need you to settle." (edited)

What did the front of the interior of Pee Wee's Playhouse look like?

1:18

I just have to know Mr. Curtis

{Please be a question about Hoodlum or Apocolypse Now!}

So did you actually annoy anyone when you were drumming on the boat?

When Ike gave Tina flowers to make up, were they tulips or geraniums?

Did that contribute in any way to Martin Sheen's heart attack?

Man, he’s good in all his movies

1:21

Searching for Bobby fisher

I haven't seen that one, I gotta find it

I dunno, his performance in Cherry 2000 might've been a walk thru

1

He was OK in King of New York.

1:23

Not excellent, just OK

1:24

Well, let's say good not great lol

So many people in that... in fairness... New Jack City came out a year later and did that character better, but in 1990 Larry was solid

1:25

Higher Learning I think was when he started to kick it up consistently

It seems like the director(s) and the material are a huge component to his performances

I don’t remember him in higher learning. Is Busta rhymes and ice cube in that movie?

yup

1:27

& tyra Banks & Kristi Swanson.... and wait for it...

King of New York is an Abel Ferrara flick. So many awesome movies, but lots of them are really schlocky (like new roses hotel... omg)

Michael Rappaport lol

1:27

Fishburne played the professor

Bad Lieutenant and King of New York are two of the only good Ferrara flicks I can think of

I don't think I've seen New roses or Bad lieutenant

Okay, let's take this to #movies

indeed

Just got the phone number to the Nebuchadnezzar......

1:05

Wat?

1-800-CALL-NEB

1:25

hmmm

1:25

I have to test this now

1:27

it's a pharmaceutical network called Relay Health

1:27

not as interesting as I was hoping

There's always Midwest Family Mutual

2:39

1-800-CALL-NEO

When Neo has taken the red pill, you can hear a rotary dialer going off. Just count the pulses and that's the phone number.

so if someone had plastic surgery in the matrix, during their time as a bluepill and a while later theyre woken up - would their RSI slowly change into their natural appearance the more they come to terms with the real world?

I always interpreted it as your RSI is your interpretation of yourself. Which is why Switch was originally supposed to be male in the real and female in the matrix. She was biologically male who considered herself female.

true, but switch had a deeply rooted reason to see herself differently

maybe Switch's RSI was male before she was awakened

lets say you got a guy who thinks he looks like shit, so he undergoes surgery to look like brad pitt, hes woken up and during his time in the real world he realizes "hm, i actually dont look that bad, i never needed this surgery"

Technically he never did have the surgery, so his real self would look like it always has. But his RSI would reflect how he sees himself internally. But if he realizes he never needed the surgery, then maybe his RSI would change back to look more like his real self.

seems logical

I would hope as a redpill, my RSI wouldn't have the same limitations that my meat body does.

makes me wonder whats possible in terms of RSI

22:14

like if you really, really, REALLY identify as a cat, do you become one in the matrix?

Maybe a furry idea of a cat

22:15

Embedded image

oof

I wonder how much mind control it does take to change your RSI after you're a redpill.

"i can only show you the cat door"

Because it's all about what you're mentally capable of.

also how much you care

22:16

if its not important to you to look a certain way, it wont happen

I wonder if Zion ever freed someone who was mentally challenged.

somehow i doubt it

That would just be cruel to the mentally disabled person

indeed

22:18

and depending on their disability they may not even be able to make a valid choice

Sometimes Ignorance really is bliss.

22:18

But back to the RSI, what if you're physically disabled in the meat world? Could you train your RSI to not be physically disabled?

neo had working eyes during the final fight with smith

Like I have several physical limitations in the meat world, I'd hate to have them in The Matrix as well

also if i remember correctly there was a matrix comic about a guy stranded in the matrix, then his leg got broken in the real world, yet he was still able to convince himself that he can walk in the matrix

22:20

only think he couldnt shake off was real world starvation

Oof

We're all cypherites in the end

22:27

Lose your internet = freeing yourself from the matrix. Wait with anxiety until you get internet again

@David T. Gregory that was the Animatrix. World Record.

4:32

Oh wait... I’m totally wrong. Didn’t read your comment fully.

4:32

My bad.

world record was awesome

Broken Leg story: "There are no flowers in the real world"

Does Cypher has a network of spies?

he ded

Clowns that needed a mythical figure to follow

lol

bern

I can identify with Beirn. He was obsessed with Persephone

Image attachment

So in Matriculated, it is shown that there are human colonies outside of Zion. Are those more of temporary stations as opposed to actual settlements like Stalingrad?

I'm pretty sure Matriculated was before Zion was a last human city thing: (edited)

10:19

https://youtu.be/6m3YaN5SKp8

THE ANIMATRIX | Matriculated | F!nally Explained

10:19

Timeline wise

In the Chateau fight, Neo bleeds and the Merovingian says “see, he is only human”. I thought once Neo became the one, he was no longer human?

The Architect: You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human.

3:01

The Program changes Neo consciousness, not his physical body

He is only a man

3:23

The only dudes that say 'only human' are agents (edited)

3:23

Well, one agent

3:24

Right before trin's 'dodge this'

[agent 3] He is still… [agent 1]…only human.

3:25

from Reloaded

3:25

Merovingian: You see, he’s just a man.

3:27

Also, this is what The Merovingian said in French in the restaurant scene. God damn your mother's motherfucker fucker shit.

Elegant.

23:55

I always thought they meant “he’s not god, just strong.”

The process altered Neo's consciousness, but shame he's non the wiser.

Has this theory ever been shared?

4:37

One guess I have is that they have several Matrixes running at once, all the same version. They break up the population to avoid a crash killing all their “eggs”. And Neo from one “client” was never found by Morpheus... And hilarity ensues

"Neo, you can fight agents and survive!" bang "...or...not. Sorry."

I always assumed that different farms were in different parts of the world inside The Matrix.

3:08

That MegaCity was just the Zero One farm.

that would explain why the plot only happens in the city

3:10

keep your one close to the machine city as a precaution

It's kind of silly to assume that after conquering the world, the machines would just retreat back to one city.

3:10

There are probably machine cities dotting the landscape in The Real

true but maybe its the capital city

3:12

also: how much physical space does an AI civilization whose members are most likely wirelessly connected truly need

Oh yea, Zero One is 100% the capital city.

3:12

I mean, they still need material

3:13

The metal, stuff to make the electronics

3:13

Someone gotta mine them

wouldnt be a problem in the future i assume

3:14

if i get into a plane right now itd be about 10 h til i reach NYC so a machine in the future would probably make it in 1/4 of that time

Oh yea, Super Sonic travel

and no fragile protein based bodies to keep safe

3:16

during the trip

Yep

3:16

Anyways, I am off to bed, my protein based body needs rest.

sleep well

h e l l o ;;--;;''

Hello there.

General Kenobi

Hey guys, quick question for you. Is there a cannon summary of all the plot points from everything outside the original trilogy that's easily available somewhere?

23:17

My extent of exposure is just the three films and the "enter the matrix" games and i wanted to catch up to the full story

You could try endlessly exploring a matrix wiki perhaps (if it's a good one). Just keep clicking links within each article and gradually expand your knowledge.

Matrix Wiki has a lot, but I've noticed & 69.5 will tell you they get stuff wrong on there. A lot of the content is copy pasted without having background checked. I'd highly recommend watching the Animatrix for yourself. As far as Matrix Comics, it can be debated if they are canon outside of Bits & Pieces of Information, Millers Tale, & I Kant . I've been building a KB of videos on my Youtube channel. This video is more like the Matrix Online Cliff Notes: https://youtu.be/jbJ5Gzh8TsA

Matrix Online Story Explained [Canon Lore Between Revolutions & The...

23:28

But @Vesuveus & @starschwar discussed each chapter in detail with me in V's The Original Matrix 4 Podcast : https://anchor.fm/vesuveusmxo (edited)

The Matrix Online Revisited with Vesuveus

The Matrix Online Revisited with Vesuveus • A podcast on Anchor

Greetings, Redpill! Let's relive old adventures!

THanks a ton, i will check these out

I sure wish Screenrant would credit our podcast

23:56

Btw, we should get back to those character studies

For sure, I think there is only a month or 2 left of shooting in Berlin.... News might dry up after they wrap. It was real quiet between San Fran & Germany

COVID will do that

Some of the cast was already out there before getting shut down. I meant once they turned the cameras off, there was a wrap party, then it got quiet until heading to Germany ramped up. Then when actors were spotted in Berlin, stories popped up again, then the pandemic shut everything down and that was the longer break of the 2 for sure. There will be little stuff here and there, but I'd doubt the once & twice a week interviews & quote drops like there is now when cameras are rolling is going to last once they wrap. Who knows how long it'll take before a real trailer is released (edited)

@dagoncrowgg also for a detailed synopsis of the events from The Matrix Online you can download and read The Matrix Archive by Julio Angel Ortiz. Also I am pretty sure @Vesuveus has it on his Podcast as an audiobook-ish kinda thing. https://jao.voxtheory.net/2016/05/18/now-available-the-matrix-online-archives/

Julio Angel Ortiz

Now Available: The Matrix Online Archives

Although it never moved beyond its small niche, The Matrix Online was a massive multiplayer online game that took place after The Matrix trilogy. With the blessing of the Wachowskis and storyline i…

Yeah, that’s the robot voices. I should start looking for a better program to read that for us.

Just press record and read it.

It’s harder than you think.

That thing like 500 pages long lol I think my longest video that I wrote & read was maybe 6 pages & about 20 minutes long

Just do it.

1

12:41

Both of you.

12:43

Make it a Matrix University and Vesuveus Enterprises collaboration.

Hey guys, quick question for you. Is there a cannon summary of all the plot points from everything outside the original trilogy that's easily available somewhere?

@dagoncrowgg There are comics and the animatrix.

I don’t make videos and podcasts cuz I’m good at it. I make them cuz I love the Matrix and I wish these things were available.

So what you are saying is it will be completed by the first of October.

13:28

Sweet!

Nah, but I am trying to get a podcast guest. Without being too bothersome and annoying.

You should find Lezel.

She was an org hopper. Was she really a she?

Oh yeah

13:43

She did hop around at the end, but she was DOE pretty much the entire time I played.

13:43

And yeah she still is a she.

13:43

Little too obsessed with ICP.... but still a she

I put the word out on Twitter

I KANT remember which thread we were having the conversation about How Neo & Trinity found the Kid in the real world, but the simple answer is that it was a Miracle : https://youtu.be/rSYQTtRuoTI

THE ANIMATRIX | Kid's Story | Michael Karl Popper F!nally Explained

Awesome episode.

Thanks V! There were a lot of references to work with the character (edited)

A very well done video on the agents

5:13

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iUXhabBmIFw

FilmComicsExplained

Agents (REALITY POLICE) The Matrix Explained

@Deleted User this is the video I was talking about earlier this morning that mentioned the importance of the Love Sub plot: https://youtu.be/j6cLMVSwdGk

Why Neo Has Powers Outside THE MATRIX | WiFi Jesus F!nally Explained

Was Kid supposed to be the next one? I feel like they just hyped him up at the end to be the next one. The higher ups in Zion placed their faith in him.

Negative. Mr.Michael Karl Popper was all human, not man/program hybrid. We'll have to see if there is a next one in the Matrix 4, but IF there is, it can go, because it was after Neo reset the Matrix. Can't have the Kid carrying the prime code, while Neo is holding it. I'm willing to accept that he copied it, or a piece of it onto Smith, but the whole "grooming" the Kid narrative does not go with anything the Architect said about it

Kid had a purpose to help the One and help lead Zion.

Kid was one of the more annoying characters in the franchise. I did like him when he took over Lock's APU tho

21:49

He even annoyed Neo

But he is brave.

He's annoying is what he is

^

Is there a hardware system that is illegally hooked up to the current incarnation of the Matrix that allows for exiles to still exist?

My understanding is that certain exiles partition off areas of the matrix as constructs that will not be affected by the reboots and reloads to the Matrix. And the machines cannot keep up with the encryption. I have also heard a theory that the Merovingian is the exile system of control. @starschwar can expand on that.

But even exiles such as Seraph who refused to be apart of the Merovingians run on their own.

16:49

Also, since Seraph is the guardian of the mother of the Matrix, does that mean he is technically no longer an exile?

He is an exile because his programming has been outdated and replaced by less powerful, more controllable agents.

16:54

He must be protected by the oracle when it comes to surviving iterations of the Matrix.

16:55

And he now protects Sati over the Oracle

When I was making the Mobil Ave video, I was thinking the Hel Club could possibly be a "reset safe" zone... we know it's underground, like the subway system, and the Trainman, Merv, Persephone & entire crew are all there just hours before Zion was to fall

That was their end of beta event

LOLFACEMATRIX

2

I have a question. Is it possible to disconnect someone from the Matrix if the hovercraft they’re on is no longer at “broadcast depth”?

If I am reading the question correctly... once the hovercraft is out of broadcast depth, the ship would be essentially out of range & unable to connect to the Matrix. If you are asking if that is a safe way to exit the Matrix, I'd doubt it. I imagine it would at the very least not be recommended, or else finding a hardline to exit wouldn't have been so important. Had that been a useful strategy, the ship could pull out of broadcast depth in the real world, in stead of the operator guiding them to a proper HL

I ask because I’m working on an edit of the sequels where Neo, Trinity and Morpheus are jacked into the Matrix aboard the Hammer. While Neo is visiting the Architect and Trinity is fighting an agent the Hammer is detected by Sentinels. Niobe then pilots the ship back to Zion. As the Hammer crash lands in Zion Neo defeats Smith and is jacked out just before Link blows the EMP. Would this be possible?

10:02

Could they jack Neo out even though they’re back in Zion and no longer at broadcast depth.

I don’t think that’s how it would work. Check out final flight of the Osiris. Jue was jacked in and the ship was under attack. They stated in broadcast depth until ship was destroyed, cutting the connection and killing Jue.

12:07

But in your project, you have some wiggle room because it’s Neo.

If it was safe to leave matrix 1 wouldn't have the tense sentinel attack

Could Smith in his exiled form have crashed the Matrix?

I think that's what he was trying to do.

And take over the machine city. He was compelled to spread even if was to his detriment.

Do you think Neo created the "virus Smith" when he merged with him at the end of the first Matrix film?

Yeah, in that it was an unintended consequence by Neo. Maybe intended by Architect or Oracle.

"Perhaps some part you of you imprinted onto me". - Smith

Smith wanted freedom in the first film and he ended up getting it in the sequels.

Could Smith have overtaken an exile in his exile form? And could Agent Johnson have done the same to an exile?

why would either do that

I think as a virus, Smith could've taken over any program. I don't think Agent Johnson could do the same thing though. Bluepills are still connected to the Matrix, so agents can use them to pop up from place to place. Exiles, while they do live in The Matrix, they're not part of the Machine World, so agents can't use them to pop in and out of places.

I think smith could have assimilated exiles.

He did, he assimilated Sati

seraph

1

There we go!

He also assimilated the Asian guy who's name is escaping me at the moment

22:47

SERAPH

22:47

That's his name

Sorry, sometimes my brain does this thing where it's trying to start up like a car, but you keep getting that Wrrr, Wrrr, Wrrr sound. Then it turns over and you remember something you were trying to remember.

everyone has that for rarely used things

23:01

its moving from HDD to ram you gotta wait a bit then it hits you

For some reason when I first read that I thought you were talking about fishing.

how far is the choice programming of the matrix supposed to go? is it just about being able to choose to accept or rejec t the program or does it go deeper, like kind of a law of attraction

I mean, you wake up every day, you accept that what you see in front of you is in fact reality.

15:53

I think The Choice works on the same principal.

yeah i see

16:38

i wonder though how much of a choice an individual has in their day to day life

I think it's a subconscious choice. Something that runs in the background like the hundreds of background programs that run on an OS.

yeah but im thinking about somewhat of a failsafe option

That's called Zion

16:40

I mean, it's a binary choice, either bluepills accept the program, or doesn't.

lets say we got a guy whos a total loser, though none of it is his own fault. you know, constant bad luck, getting sacked even though hes the hardest worker in the company, wife cheating on him, his apartment in pillsen burns down so he has to move to westview...i mean its easy to end up wanting some kind of escape from that, be it rejection or death, so shouldnt the matrix provide him with some opportunity to turn his life around and live a life that doesnt lead to a dead end, one way or another

16:44

or more phiolosophically speaking: would escaping in whichever way really be a choice if there are no other options left

There's a difference between wanting to escape a bad situation and saying "There's something wrong with this reality, I can't put my finger on it, but I will obsessively dedicate my life to figuring out the truth behind this reality."

16:46

Also, I think as long as the bluepill accepts the program, the machines don't really care one way or another about their quality of life. As long as they can use the bluepill's brain for complicated computing, it's all gravy.

makes sense

16:48

although it still seems kinda inefficient to not cover all bases and plug all the holes that may lead someone down the rabbit hole

16:48

and theres been cases of people going psyxchotic as a reaction to traumatic events

16:49

= losing touch with reality

I don't think the machines have yet to come up with a solution that will guarantee 100% acceptance of the program. As Neo said in Reloaded, choice, the problem is choice.

yeah. and in the end theyd probably calculate whether a possible 99,9% of acceptance is really worth the effort compared to the usual 99% acceptance youd already have

They just chalk those who do end up rejecting the program as acceptable loses and will be slaughtered at the next Matrix reboot.

what do they even do with potential redpills that get caught before a zion crew gets them. put them into reeducation constructs? kill them`?

Nothing, they just let the Zionist deal with them

16:54

Remember, Zion is part of the machine's control

thats true but for example in comics they capture them, see "a path among stones"

16:54

or path of neo if that counts

I mean, everyone thats ever fought an agent, every one has died

20:36

would seem like they would do the same for someone trying to escape

Remember, I am Morpheus.

In the MxO, there was a resurgence of the Smith virus. Was this more of an event as opposed to a story line?

It was an anniversary event (edited)

But it was also a bit in the story at the beginning too with Agent Grey showing signs of corruption

Yea, but it's a minor plot that only affected Agent Gray

That’s basically what I said.

were they able to get rid of smith or did the writers leave an opening for possible fuzture returns

TBH, It'd be lame if Smith came back in M4

theyd have to reconsider the whole concept of smith drastically

19:31

something subtle maybe, like formerly infected people making small mistakes in their day to day life without noticing but the consequences of these mistakes as a whole lay the groundwork for the return of smith, whatever that may look like

19:31

some kind of micro mind control that nobody notices until its too late

Like I said, it'd be lame

19:31

They need a brand new villain for M4

19:32

Beside, Hugo Weaving already stated he's not coming back for M4, so no Smith.

indeed.

19:32

and honestly the reason why smith was such a great villain is largely weavings portrayal

19:33

cant imagine jean reno as smith, as it was originally planned

Smith will be in Mx4. Lana tried to get Weaving. Smith will probably be portrayed by another actor and manifest through another character.

Ehh, there was an attempt to get Weaving, but it seemed like Lana changed her mind

20:58

I do not think Smith will make an appearance in Mx4

20:59

I got the impression that that was during an earlier incarnation of the script

21:00

Or not even a script, just an earlier incarnation of the concept of what Mx4 was going to be

It was after filming started

Interesting, I thought that was before

what does it say about a script that its being rewritten so hard during filming

23:12

is that a usual process?

extremely

23:23

That's super common

alright

Lana didn’t change her mind. Hugo was filming something else and they couldn’t work around that. So yeah there is a big chance the Smith Virus comes back one way or the other.

16:11

I personally think it’s dumb and would be happy if they moved on from his story

Depends on the purpose, but without Hugo Weaving, I think it’s time for fresh villainy

He’s all about purpose that Smith

I just pictured Will Smith as an Agent (edited)

16:14

Now that's fresh villainy

red_frag_01

2

Will could have played Neo but picked Wild Wild West instead

Yes, thank god

16:15

Val kilmer was in that list too

We missed a dope theme song though

16:16

Wasn’t Sean Connery also considered for Morpheus?

Tom cruise too right? Keanu was like the last of the last choice

16:16

Nic Cage too, as Neo

Want to shave your eyebrows or hang out with salma Hayek for 2 months?

Keanu was perfect because he acts like a robot

is that a usual process?

@David T. Gregory Not uncommon at all. When Casablanca started filming, they were still writing the script.

How does that work?

17:59

"Well, here's the first 30 minutes, we're still working on the other hour and half."

i mean you can pick a couple of important points in the story and improvise youir way towards them, its not impossible. my concern was more based on the idea that maybe the executives demand a high degree of completion before they agree on financing the poject

Spending your shareholders' money on a vague outline and no finished script...Some people have done it, many have regretted it. Depends on how plucky you are, I guess.

Image attachment

so i just noticed commander lock was also in house MD

Image attachment

the whole idea of the one being a system of control brings me to another question

15:37

i often thought that neo couldve been able to handle situations more easily, like, why fly from the chateau to the freeway if you could just teleport

15:38

obviously this is also for dramatic effect - but i wonder: was neo just horribly uncreative with his superpowers or was all that he showed the machine imposed limit of his abilities?

I lean towards the lack of creativity, or maybe lack of imagination fits better here. For the most part, when Neo does things, it's something he's seen someone else do, or a variation of something he's already witnessed. He learns how to "move like they do" only after witnessing an Agent dodge bullets. The twins go thru walls, Neo hand pumps Trinity's heart through her skin & other organs. The Kid self substantiates out of the Matrix, Neo Self substantiates into mobil ave etc... Perhaps if Neo had witnessed an exile flat out teleport he'd /&gotopos too (edited)

or the lack of care

15:49

I think Neo doesn't seem to care that much about anyone other than Trinity

15:49

big careless attitude from our favorite One

Speaking of Mxo commands, he might need to know the specific coordinates to pull off a teleport

if he can access and process the code it should be easy to conduct a matrix wide search

nobody teleports in the movies, even agents need to possess someone

15:53

so I wonder if the Architect walked from the Source to the park in Revolutions

probably used the white hallway

15:55

emerging from the doors of a female public restroom, cause its his world, what are you gonna do about it

If the Architect built the matrix, can he kick Neo’s ass like the trainman side in his construct?

he will architect a world of pain all over his candy ass

There was never an instance of teleportation was there? Fast travel was done via the white halls, agents could posses bluepills, the twins could travel through solid matter when in ghost form, but even the architect wasn't shown to teleport. I think it violates the rules of the Matrix

yet we do it every time we use an elevator, curious

then again neo was supposed to be abkle to break the rules entirely

Not really no.

17:55

But yes lol in mixo, we teleport all over

neo still had to fly (which exerted tremendous force on objects around him) in a way that didnt break the rules

@Vesuveus So, even though I believe that the Deus Ex Machina is a machine representative, I still also feel as though the Architect has real world hardware. Which is to say, if Neo did kill him inside the Matrix, I don't see that destroying his real world hardware & therefore he could just respawn if needed. He didn't seem like much a fighter anyway

Yeah, but neither does this kid

18:10

Image attachment

if neo doesnt have complete access to every element of the code the architect wouldnt even need to be a good fighter. he could just create something to stop neo

20:09

an impenetrable box or whatever

20:09

set him on fire etc

20:12

except of course the rules are made by an even higher instance

Has anyone ever wondered what is the ratio of machine/organic material is for redpills?

22:36

Like, all those ports on the bodies aren't there just for show

22:37

I figured at least the brain at least contains enough computer parts so that machines can interface with the organic brain and vice versa. (edited)

22:37

I dunno about the ports along the spine, arms, and legs though

@Metalogic that's for juices

0:59

Or other senses

I didn't go into details about this in the solving the battery problem video, but my theory is that the machines were intercepting as much natural electricity, neural activity & body heat as possible. All movements in the Matrix are simulated but the body thinks it's real, so I think the idea is that the energy you would've used to go jogging in the matrix morning is instead harvested in the real world

I would think the brain has no computer parts, just connectors....

1:11

Your brain is the computer

1:14

and the ports on the body were to relay the movement impulses to the simulation, so it knew what you wanted to do in the simulation - walk, run, wave bye bye etc

@sixxth The issue is that the brain acts on electrical impulses, while computers operate on zeros and ones. There has to be an intermediate between the two that translate the electrical impulse to code and vice versa.

@sixxth I just heard this 1950s recording of a typical lecturer talking about impulses and what they can make us do, such as....

3:21

Image attachment

3:22

All distorted and warbly and shit

3:23

Film strip called "Impulses and You"

Sounds like anti-masturbation & anti-premarital sex video.

Impulses may make you want to do wholesome things like walk, run, or wave bye-bye. But now and again you may feel impulses trying to make you do unsavory things, like playing with your jimmy.

3:24

Or playing with someone else's jimmy.

3:25

If you hear feel your impulses telling you anything about anyone's jimmy, you should report them to the authorities immediately. Your impulses, not Jimmy.

Poor Jimmy, no one wants to play with him.

It's the man trying to keep Jimmy down

3:28

Fuck, I forgot to add 'etc'

lol

Image attachment

3:30

perfetto

LOL

This is totally not lore....

Image attachment

But it's dedicated to @sixxth

3:32

But yea, back to the lore, I think there's at least a little computer inside the brain that helps the machine interface with the electrical impulses of the brain.

Ok when they pull Neo out of the pods I was thinking about the ports being part of selling the physical aspects of simulation but then when they jacked in from the Neb, they only use the head jack

@Metalogic Electrical impulses can absolutely be converted into 1s and 0s. That is how most circuits work. Absolutely how computers work. AND, NAND, OR, NOR gates. Qs. The trick would be converting the 1s and 0s to the brain, in the form of electrical impulses in a way that the brain would interpret as a “dream world.”

5:30

Good example are some of the robotic prosthetic arms that respond to brain impulses, but those are going the opposite way. Also a similar research that is related to phantom limb impulses. When people who have lost limbs or partial limbs but still “feel” the limb there and also reporting of feeing pain in the missing limb.

5:33

Granted not the same level as having your entire perception of reality artificially generated, but in the ballpark.

the machine has become human itself

8:20

it has all the brain chemicals

8:22

actually what doesnt make sense, is it shouldnt need humans anymore because they could just use chemicals and probiotics and bacteria

8:23

they could make huge energy from just organisms

8:23

well maybe its because its fear of becoming an abomination

8:23

a monster

8:29

i guess it wants to stay true to human values. soon machine will become biological

69.5

@Metalogic Electrical impulses can absolutely be converted into 1s and 0s. That is how most circuits work. Absolutely how computers work. AND, NAND, OR, NOR gates. Qs. The trick would be converting the 1s and 0s to the brain, in the form of electrical impulses in a way that the brain would interpret as a “dream world.”

The common use of skin contact connections in todays advanced prosthetics supports the theory that there would be no embedded computer

14:09

Yes, no internal computer needed, all done external.

Deleted User

the machine has become human itself

In the past, Rarebit brought up the fact that people focused on the "energy gathering" part of The Matix movie have missed the point. The W's used that to indicate the symbiotic relationship between man and machine.

sixxth

Yes, no internal computer needed, all done external.

I believe that has to do with infrared light, like how sensor bar of the wii works

14:17

Like how old dial up modem works

14:18

Its too do with signals,waves,light,pulse,sound,fields

14:18

I know you can connect to your brain in an altered state of consciousness through hemisync and trance music

14:19

Just becareful of some trance music, it probably has evil intentions behind it like psystation

14:19

Because I heard demons on it

how high were you

14:23

1

What do you mean

14:29

I hear demons on psystation trance instantly

14:29

Idk if its because I'm high or that I'm so well intune

14:30

@sixxth

14:30

I felt like dying everytime it happened

sixxth

The common use of skin contact connections in todays advanced prosthetics supports the theory that there would be no embedded computer

I’m not sure I would go so far as to say that, though I’m not saying it isn’t the case. But in modern technology with simply streaming audio/video you need encoders and decoders. Especially when going from one medium to another. Software can replace hardware, and in this respect the software is continuing to get better, but I’m afraid that the amount of data you would be encoding from the matrix, there would be a lot of hitching and lag. (edited)

16:01

The secret is in the eyes and ears. We need to solve how the brain interprets the data sent from the eyes and ears to the brain. I guess that would also count for all 5 of the senses.

pretty good article

17:43

https://openbionics.com/how-does-a-bionic-arm-work/

How does a bionic arm work?

Bionic arms work by picking up signals from a user’s muscles. When a user puts on their bionic arm and flexes muscles in their residual limb just below their elbow; special sensors detect tiny naturally generated electric signals, and convert these into intuitive and proportional bionic hand movement.

17:44

"When a user puts on their bionic arm and flexes muscles in their residual limb just below their elbow; special sensors detect tiny naturally generated electric signals, and convert these into intuitive and proportional bionic hand movement."

17:48

Id say the hearing is close - cochlear implants are the first huge step. Eyes are coming.....theres already bionic eyes out there, again first steps.

1

Circling back to the original question, I propose that instead of using energy to fake or simulate those signals, the machines are intercepting and harvesting them along with any body heat that is produced

I mean, these impulses are miniscule, and would probably be needed as input to the simulation to understand what the person is doing.

17:52

but again, Im not hung up on the whole power plant idea -

I honestly like the original idea more, that the machines are using our brain for computing prowesses.

1

honestly, if any of this was important I think it would have been revealed in the movies - the power plant is just showing that the machines and man have to coexist to survive

In The Matrix, Morpheus said "Combined with a form of fusion" which doesn't make sense because if the machines have achieved fusion power (right now all of our nuclear power plants are fission powered) then there would be no need for human batteries.

yup, see my statement

The machines would be able to live off of fusion forever.

17:56

So the question is, what do the machines truly lack that we have? Our brains, we can think in abstract thoughts, we can have emotions, feelings, etc. We're able to form relationships, have children, etc.

17:57

Our brains can help The Machines expand their computing powers. The bluepills are basically CPUs for the machines to use.

Neither am I, at the end of the day it's science fiction & at first glance I agreed, but they only use the head jack on the neb, so we've seen the additional ports are not need for the simulation to work. Personally if I had to guess Rarebit was probably making reference to those who focus on or claim the 2nd law of thermodynamics is somehow being violated. I'm not in that camp, the films don't ever state the machines figured out how to reverse entropy, only that they've figure out a way to harvest our energy. That's why I keep throwing the body heat in there, it's a combination of energy being harvested. I agree, muscle signaling by itself would not equal absurd amounts of power, but I suggest no drop of energy goes wasted, the machines positioned the ports to collect all of it. Assuming that the super advanced machines created a way to harvest neural activity itself as energy that would be where the money is. I too agree computing processing power made more sense, and that was most likely the original idea. I've just never found the source of that rumor, but I believe it (edited)

18:02

Symbiosis is the important part & prison industrial complex is the lesson.

18:03

I feel the same way about Neos powers outside the Matrix, if you focus too much on the how , the real question of why easily gets lost

I mean, if you take The Animatrix into consideration. It's probably the best solution the machines could come up with. Mankind clearly wasn't going to rest til all of The Machines were destroyed. So that wasn't a feasible future. Eradicating mankind wasn't going to happen because I'm sure at least some residual feelings of wanting to corporate with the hairless apes still exist among the machines. So The Matrix was form. Mankind gets to live in a virtual reality of the late 21st century, and they contribute whatever it is they can to the machines.

The way I see it, the machines still viewed mankind as their creator so they could have a desire for connecting the same way man tries to find god

18:08

But this video was made right before the Matrix 4 was announced so I can promise no M4 spoilers exist lol

18:08

https://youtu.be/1N_osixK-ug

The Matrix Trilogy: Solving the Battery Problem

Rarebit was referring to the point of the power plant is symbiosis, a plot device, nothing about physics

18:18

Ill try to dig up the forum post where he mentions it later, gotta get ready for a house full of company

18:18

Also, YES

18:18

The machine ARE man, but deny it

The machines are people, they're made of people!!!

They are OF man

I was making a Soylant Green joke, but yes.

also, soylent green was akshully made of people

18:19

oh I know

Man I could go for a little soylent green about now, couple dabs of chipotle Cholula, aw yearh

cookiemxo

1

Mmmm, chipotle

@sixxth ya we are saying the same thing 2 different ways. Focus on the plot device and not the physics & all will fall into place

I think the Matrix is part laboratory to study human brains and symbiosis so the Machines still have a purpose.

14:11

Remove humans and the only purpose Machines have is to just make more Machines

14:11

Then they become just like us, and they really don’t want to

14:12

I believe they’re fascinated by our emotions and more importantly how fragile we are even though we’re capable of great things in a short lifespan

14:13

So the whole “they need us for powers” situation is a great way to get into the lore but in the end it’s just what the Machines told Zion so it’s probably a lie

There are options for the story to be retconned, stating that Morpheus had inaccurate info and it swerve the general audience

I mean, it is canon that Morpheus and The Nebuchadnezzar had inaccurate information. In The Matrix Link says that Zion is close to the Earth core, where it's still warm. However in Final Flight of the Osiris it is said that Zion is only 4km below the Earth's surface. Nowhere near the Earth's core.

emp

1

I believe that the machines have a human king

14:52

They created this king

14:52

It is similar to neo

14:53

It except it includes everything that can be

14:53

I think we might have a land of swords scene in the matrix 4

14:54

It is where the kingdom is

14:54

Fight to become the next

14:54

King

14:54

Or maybe there can be more than one king

Like a group of Oligarchs?

matrixredpill

1

Great catch @Metalogic That was Tank in the original Matrix talking about Zion being near the Earth's core & I thought the math was off in Osiris but simply didn't research it until you mentioned it now. The Outer core is 5,000 kilometers straight down lol, long way from 4... maybe it was supposed to be 4K (km) & no one caught it.

with the information we have, could a zion operative use a red pill as an emergency exit from the matrix?

18:02

its supposed to disrupt the input output signal and help trace someones location

Trace their pod's location

yeah

So why would that work if you're not hardwired to the matrix?

so its not the pill itself that wakes you up?

They seem to initiate the 'jackout' sequence

18:05

Once they find the bluepill

cause thats what the disruption of the input output signal seems to imply

I took it to mean it disrupts the signal to make their connection stand out

18:07

Moshimo even says 'disrupts your input/output carrier signal SO we can pinpoint your location'

true

And the order "Now, Tank! Now!"

18:07

That was to initiate some sort of jack-out

i just wasnt sure what exactly it was supposed to mean

Excuse me, 'Jug out'

breakthtaking

1

disrupting the signal seems kinda risky too

I misspoke lol

okay i dont get it

Yeah seems like you would have a limited amount of time once you started the process or you could lose the target

18:10

@David T. Gregory https://www.peterchimaera.com/matrix.html

WebMD - Better information. Better health.

The leading source for trustworthy and timely health and medical news and information. Providing credible health information, supportive community, and educational services by blending award-winning expertise in content, community services, expert commentary, and medical review.

18:11

You've heard us quote that shit a bunch

18:11

sworded with great attack, etc etc

18:11

It was a matrix trick

what the....

yeeeeaah.....

seems like the author ´took a different pill...

I love all the different ways he spells morpheus

18:12

morpus, morpeud, etc

18:12

There's a voiceover guy that did a reading of this, it's awesome

Then Andres Bonifacaeiouaeiouaeiou appeared and said "This be good article for Sentinel"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8EVC8IkISg

The Matrix Return

what the hell

Sheer brilliance

If you somehow acquired liquid genius, then distilled it 5 times, you'd get The Matrix Returns, by Peter Chimera

20:00

we must kung fu

Ha , those are great.

20:23

Love when he uses matrix as a verb.

20:25

'more matrix is attacks us' ~ ok not a verb. My bad.

"your gf is like the matrix" "deep and fascinating?" "no: not real" (edited)

Ahh, but what is real? How do you define real?

"If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply: your right hand."

Fun fact, we have no objective way to measure reality.

thats true

20:59

we only have certain definitions that work for the majority

So, I say the Matrix is as real as it can possibly be.

also true

21:01

i think an important part of reality is some kind of uncontrollability

21:01

you cant control the weather and even if you could youd have to play by the rules of physics

21:04

and even if you could rewrite ther weather any way you please theres still many things you have no control over. so reality is just like a negotiation with a strong counterpart

21:08

actually that pretty much ties in with the matrix betas

21:08

ultimate bliss or ultimate pain, no negotiation possible either way

Do y'all think The Real still have seasons? Or is it just like the same all year round?

I’m thinking same. But I have limited knowledge about what makes seasons.

16:40

High school was 23 years ago

As in the desert of the real? Temperatures probably fluctuate from the sun being outside the clouds and the Earth would still rotate around & tilt along it's axis...

Seasons are a result of the distance the planet is away from the sun. So it probably goes from really crappy to extremely crappy.

That’s what I was thinking, Dom

Image attachment

16:46

It appears real clouds still form above the dark storm... & in Matriculated there is still a large body of water

16:46

So maybe it still snows somewhere?

Or maybe it just collects in the clouds where it freeze and finally hurdles to earth in the form of giant ice boulders.

i think the machines on purpose wanted the dark storm to stay

4:59

else it would have started rainging and then sun, could create alot of mold,rust and planets growing

Looking up Sati

18:49

Image attachment

What do we learn about Ramakandra in the Matrix online? Just that he used to share a cubicle with the Assassin?

Not much that I can recall. No character model, that’s for sure

Pretty sure he was sent to the Source after giving Sati to the Oracle or else he would be at her side

Probably The Mother too

Train man could've taken them back to the real world

23:47

They had real world hardware and jobs

The Machine World, but yea.

23:47

I wonder what it looks like on the programming side of The Matrix where the programs don't have to use human avatars.

Mech city potatoes tomatoes

23:48

Image attachment

I always figure mom and dad went back to “the machine world”

I know, yes, I know, that the original plan was for the machines to use humans for extra processing power and it was the studio suits who thought the public was full of computer illiterate people, but the plot only makes sense (because of the various things that happen in the movies) if humans are processors and not power. The very fact that the anomaly can do those things in the movie suggests the anomaly's processing potential was different (divide by 0?)

Weird question, but did we ever find out what race Veil was in the real? I know in The Matrix she was pale white, but that's in The Matrix.

23:08

Image attachment

Wasn't Veil an exile?

No, she's a human.

23:22

You're thinking of Grace, the masked Exile.

23:26

See?

Image attachment

Look at the images when she was still a zion operative using that other name that I can't think of right now.

Had people different handles for different orgs?

People had different alt accounts and were in different orgs, yes.

Oh, I thought it was meant like, when people change their org they also change their handle.

Oh no, they don't do that

0:11

You keep your name the entire time

0:11

I don't know if Veil was ever Toorima in the game proper, or if she was always Veil in game but was Toorima before her arrival

This is what Toorima looked like

Image attachment

0:27

Notice that Veil’s got the same dots on her forehead as Toorima

Image attachment

Image attachment

So is that sunburnt white, maybe mixed race?

I would go with non white

Good enough for me

Idc but she is beautyful. What was her role in mxo?

She was the Cypherite leader with Cryptos

0:50

Cryptos was obviously Jamaican, given his speech patterns.

Original conceptual was black

Wasn't the original concept of her having like an African head dress on?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BovbeBUgFIU/?igshid=160em3kqsyrxx

1:07

No, that was an exile, I think, called the Egyptian. I don’t think she was implemented

Ahh okay

1:08

Well I'll just make her "not white" when creating her in Blender then

Whatever it is, it looks really good on her.

Agreed

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bn_us7xn81z/?igshid=c3w2idv62psl

17:57

The Egyptian for @Metalogic

Before I knew why Neo was named Neo, I just thought Neo was called that because he could fly fast, so if you were near him as he passed by, it would just sound like; Nᵉ Oooo (edited)

2

What if Agent Smith in the new movie tried to kill Neo, but instead of having some witty line, he just said: "Vibe check Mr. Anderson."

I would walk out.

1

I don’t think that would happen.

I know, it's a dumb joke. I find a lot of things humorous, despite the lack of depth or intellect required to make them. (edited)

Does anyone know the timeline for the Matrix(s)? E.g. Utopia, Nightmare and the "Normal" Matrix. Normal meaning the Matrix that is presented visually within the movies.

Sounds like you have the order right: The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art – flawless, sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another – an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother. (edited)

Ah, given that they failed, would it be plausible that these failures didn't last the 100 hundred years compared to the other reboots?

There is no such reference for how long... 100 years is Morpheus describing the last cycle, but technically, there is no way to know if each cycle was 100 years

7:08

The two Beta versions would most likely have been much shorter since the Architect refers to them as failures, yes

Wasn't it stated that there were 5 other Matrix reboots that featured the one that lasted 100 years?

Morpheus does not know anything about the previous 5 cycles, it is the only clue we have, but no where was it ever said that it took 100 years each time

I thought it was, I'll try to find it as I specifcally remember within the wiki regarding the purpose of the One.

7:10

I could be terribly wrong here, but I want to make sure I'm not going insane.

Morpheus: I remember that I am here not because of the path that lies before me, but because of the path that lies behind me! I remember that for 100 years we have fought these machines. I remember that for 100 years they have send their armies to destroy us. And after a century of war, I remember that which matters most. We are still here!

I remember the quote, wasn't that from his speech in Revolutions?

7:14

Alright, so I'm unobservant. You were right, it's an approximate cycle, not an exact cycle.

7:15

The page: https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Reload

Reload | Matrix Wiki | Fandom

ya, and that's the only reference related to your question. We can assume that it has really been closer to 6 centuries of war, instead of only 1 century, because morpheus doesn't know about the 5 previous ones, that also would not include however long it took the Beta versions to crash. Those could've been a few years, or even a few months, it is never detailed, and technically, the lengths of each previous one is never detailed, so it is a guessing game with no real way to check. 6 centuries is the most common answer

7:15

69.5 will tell you, not everything on that site is right, always best to check it out for yourself

Yeah, I meant it as I that is the page I remember the key number of 100 regarding the reboothing.

7:17

Deadass I came across a page that was about the "Fifth Matrix" and all it had was just three D's. Like this: ddd (edited)

7:17

Yeah this

7:17

https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Fifth_Matrix

Fifth Matrix | Matrix Wiki | Fandom

Yeah, I think that site let's any random person edit

Definitely.

7:18

I'm working out a timeline for my AU, hence the questions. I appreciate your help on this a lot.

You might get some mileage out of the timeline video: https://youtu.be/uaqvGg9_Yao

Matrix Trilogy Timeline F!NALLY Explained

7:22

The only timestamp I forgot to include is the one found in Beyond, which I believe was dated 2003 from inside the Matrix, I put that screen shot in the Beyond Explained video... the only other dates found are from the Matrix comic story Goliath which also takes place inside the Matrix

I'll give it a watch later, It's early in the morning for me and I'm way early in the morning. This is pretty cool.

7:23

(God why did I repeat the same thing twice in one sentence?

Yea it's 1am here, and I really want to record the next video, but I am getting tired and it's really cold and my mic stand is out in the car... (they have edit button here) (edited)

Oop, actually I have one more question, if you will? It has a cash incentive.

Not dead yet, what's the questions?

How much could I pay you to read something I've created to basically iron out the flaws and give an indepth critique.

You want me to do a voice over?

Doesn't need to be a 10 page essay, just enough because your knowledge on the Matrix is exemplery.

7:27

and no, not a voice over- just reading.

7:27

reading, like an editor basically.

Are there/were there other human cities besides Zion?

The crew in Matriculated never mentioned Zion, but it's not stated where or when they're from specifically. I suspect that story takes place prior to Zion being populated due to the variety of machines shown in the Episode. After that you've got the Oligarchs, though I imagined that as more of a settlement than a city.

15:51

In the Matrix comics there was a Zion crew that went AWOL & an individual old man surviving on his own in the real world

Is Neo forever eternal? If the speculative plot of Mx4 is that Neo's code is brought into the next incarnation of the Matrix, then does he actually die? Also, doesn't every new incarnation of the Matrix allow for a new One? If that is the case, wouldn't the new incarnation have two chosen ones in the same system?

9:08

Or could Neo get relegated as an exile?

9:09

So the one of the new system can fulfill his duties

the code/program of the One is tied to the Machine Source, and is necessary for rebooting the Matrix. It isn't the same Neo/Thomas Anderson every time, the code is randomly put into a random person in the pods as far as I am aware.

I have doubts about the random person theory

9:32

I think machines would control that as much as possible

9:33

Down to cloning a person that they genetically engineered

power

1

That doesnt explain why Neo was such an aberration then.

9:44

They let The One choose who gets to repopulate Zion after the Machines win and the Matrix reboots

9:44

So they leave that up to chance.

What threat are they?

See The Matrix, The Matrix Reloaded, and The Matrix Revolutions

The 23 people?

Descendants.

!kick @Mug Troll

Kicked BV | KoK | ✿Mug✿#1555

!kick @damien Troll

Kicked damien#0554

!kick @bvoo Troll

Kicked bvoo#0047

!kick @moon Troll

Kicked Moon Tzu#8945

why

because I know what you guys are doing

?????????????????????????

21:44

I don't know these people I'm just looking for matrix online players

can u fight in matrix online?

The fiercest battles were on the forums

THIS

2

power

2

matrixredpill

2

23:36

It combat isn’t functional in the emulator at this time

That's canon

assassin

2

Vesuveus

The fiercest battles were on the forums

Thats the truest thing I ever read in here

I miss Drama Node 1

4:51

I dont think it would have been as bad if everyone didnt know each other lol

4:51

but our community was so small

Like a giant dysfunctional family...

Syntax EPN in the house

Crap someone remembered me.

So I was scrolling through some old conversations and saw some one mentioned the old General and Kid’s blogs. Anyone remember the third one Chadwick also wrote? (edited)

The Sentinel?

No. Chadwick had his own blog and on it links to the Generals blog and Kid’s and I want to say a third which was his own characters experiences in MxO. I might be confusing his personal blog for the third though

Mainly it was just photos of landmarks in game with a bit of commentary. But one of the photos had Chadwick’s character name. Started with an E but lost on the rest. He was a Machinst in case anyone was curious lol

Cryptos or Veil maybe?

Veil had a blog? Damn missed that entirely. No it wasn’t tied to any main character. Was strictly just for posting about his own experience in game.

5:50

One of the last post I remember was him thanking a group for helping him get to a party thrown in downtown and apologizing for agents popping in to kill him lol

Hmm, paulchadwick.com?

It was hosted on the same blogsite he used for the general and kid. I could have sworn it was separated from his personal/official blog but could be wrong

Yeah I just did a quick scan through everything on Paul’s blog linked on his website (.net btw). And am not seeing anything I remember related to his other blog. So pretty certain now it was separate from his site.

they were hosted at a site called mxo.blogs.com. (edited)

15:10

there was http://mxo.blogs.com/cryptos which was The Kid's blog about Cryptos and http://mxo.blogs.com/the_general which was Anome's blog about The General. I have not been able to find another reference to another site under mxo.blogs.com. Oh yeah, both sites are dead so you can't browse to them, but up to about 6 months ago, http://mxo.blogs.com itself did resolved to a completely blank page, but has since went dead too. (edited)

The Wayback Machine does have several archived copies of each blog, but I warn you to not even bother to look for them. They are incomplete, and only show you one side of the 'conversations'. Broken links, missing images and ratholes you can't go down. I rebuilt the blogs from what info I could find using those and a couple of forums/user blogs that I could find, and posted them somewhere under the fansites and podcasts channel quite a while back. Happy hunting.

agent

2

Does Zion’s archives have the codes for previous incarnations of the Matrix?

They don’t know about the previous irritations, so no.

I am surprised they didn't get suspicious when they're led to a destroyed Zion to set up the last human city (again.)

20:22

"Huh, this place just happens to have all the things we need to survive in the real. Oh look, hovercrafts and the ability to jack into The Matrix to free other minds. Boy that sure is convenient." (edited)

Always assumed humanity started building underground before they blacked out the sky. Zion could have just been the last outpost for humanity before losing the war or something to that effect.

The One must have a story for the first 23 individuals that covers this. No idea what it could be.

It was he who freed the first of us, taught us the truth: ‘As long as the Matrix exists the human race will never be free.’ After he died the Oracle prophesized his return and that his coming would hail the destruction of the Matrix, end the war, bring freedom to our people -Morpheus (edited)

4:35

After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion - The Architect (edited)

My take here is we can just chunk everything Morpheus tells us in M1 in the trash. It’s a narrative built toward maintaining the war and I doubt it’s based on an actual history of an early Zion.

Vesuveus

The One must have a story for the first 23 individuals that covers this. No idea what it could be.

I don’t think they get a chance to. If the cycle continued as planned and Neo walked through the door to the source there is a very short time between picking 23 people to free and destroying, cleaning, rebuilding Zion for occupation. Never mind transporting from the fields to the city etc. I think it’s easier to imagine that The One dies after uploading themselves to The Source and the Oracle or something else cares for those 23 people they picked prepping them for awakening etc. Like Morpheus implies their cycle is about 100 years old but 100 years isn’t nearly enough time to have forgotten the guy who freed the first of you and given up on him returning. Like Locke didn’t know anyone who knew the previous One? No ones parent or grandparent passed on stories of a guy who could fly in the matrix?

The more I think about this, is Zion basically a dry aquarium for humans? Or A terrarium? Something to that effect.

Yup

its a feasibility study with a 99.9% success rate

More like an ant farm that you watch for 100 years then go in and pull all their arms and legs off.

I wonder if attacking Zion was a religious pilgrimage for the machines. I mean, a good many sentinels do die attacking it every time, maybe they are the Machine version of Jihadis or Crusaders.

Soldier and worker ants are expendable.

Im pretty sure the Machines are individuals

23:50

Which is the whole reason why they rebelled

Depends on how much everyone really knows about the cycle, zion, etc. Which might actually be a fair bit. Rama Kandra has a line in the script where he was going to tell Neo "We have heard much about you. Where we come from you are called "the one that is expected."

Kind of lore-like, but with the Backrooms and the Matrix was combined? AU idea I'm working on.

✋I have no idea what that means.

I think he's referring to the White Hallways.

The Backrooms has extensive lore to it, and it's not the White Hallways. See here for what the Backrooms are: http://backrooms-wiki.wikidot.com/

Meh...

It's a lot, it's like SCP foundation but centered around the out-of-bounds of the world.

I stand by my meh...

That's okay,

Good luck with it.

ty!

First Draft of the AU: In this AU, the Matrix is a massive, multi-server that includes billions of identities. The cycle takes place in each server and there are multiple Zion-like cities around the world, but the Machines keep it so no city can find the other or have hope other cities exist. Sometimes there can be Ones of the same person. Therefore, more than one Neo on different servers. It's a split identity that is dangerous as one server can be ready to restart, while the other isn't. These split identities are conjoined, one action affects the other. Then, there is the Unworld. These are empty, small servers that exist to act as a sort of safety net and containment area of dangerous anomalies and other threats within the Matrix. It’s just miles and miles are strange rooms. Some of these areas were a part of previous Matrix versions, Matrix prototypes, things that could and ultimately shouldn’t have. The Unworld is a crude mimic and poorly constructed. Incomplete if you will. Some rooms are deserts in a vast desert with relics of past inhabitants, flooded tundra of concrete that smell like death, endless rooms and halls that lead to nowhere or back to the beginning floors. People can fall into them though, rare but plausible. If this happens, there is no hope for them getting back to their original server. The Resistance is aware of them to a degree. After a squad went missing and described the world they found themself in. It was unlike anything in the Matrix they understood it as and eventually it was dubbed as: The Unworld. They could still communicate, but after a while- they never heard from them again and were disconnected. Operators, although heavily trained on spotting an Unworld port- have a hard time distinguishing it from the typical Matrix. This AU has two Neos. The latter of the two is referred to as Uneo, given that he was taken to the Unworld from the server he was on in order to prevent that server from going the cycle prematurely.

In the films do hovercrafts have any other purpose besides freeing minds from The Matrix?

Lock: Councillor, am I still in charge of our defense system?...I believe I need every ship we have if we’re going to survive this attack!

It’s kinda funny how the Neb in the first film had no weapons except the EMP. Then we get to the sequels and every ship is armed with about 8 Gatling guns.

They also didn’t have any crew left to man the guns

Did the Neb did have guns in the first film?

It was never stated

According to concept art it looks like it at least had a forward and rear facing gun.

emp

1

Thus far all ships have shown to have combat power. I mean I wouldn't send out ANY ship and risk free minds dying without proper protection.

2:48

personally speaking of course ^

I think the guns were added later because in the first movie, it is stated that the EMP blast is their only defense against the squiddies.

2:51

They never said "Oh and we have those 50 cal guns on the forward and aft of the ship.

they just retrofitted all ships with guns in 6 months? Thats the time between 1 and 2

I wasn't talking about "in universe"

Ahh

I mean they also have hand held lightning rifles. I don’t think that line is meant to be taken as an absolute. And again, concept art of the Neb for the first film looks like it included two main canons on it.

Gun control laws changed

Oscar G

they just retrofitted all ships with guns in 6 months? Thats the time between 1 and 2

Eh, it's a reasonable enough timeframe- as all hands could get on it. Hell, Morpeus mighta just been that gung-ho (pardon the pun).

LOL yea... I get it.

1:06

I guess, i mean during war, the economy and not wanting to die is a good motivator

@SCWatchman Please don't spam. You only have to put the link in one channel, not multiple.

ok, which one?

@SCWatchman I left the one in #general alone because that's where that sort of things belong.

ok, ty

19:25

do you have an opinion?

I haven't checked it out yet, so I have yet to form an opinion.

How is this linked to lore?

Can non-awaken people see agents?

1:17

I do know the police in the first one were working with the agents.

I don't think so. The bluepills are more likely to become agents though. Although that's something I'm interested in learning more myself. A bluepill is going about his day in the morning at work. Then all the sudden it's night time and he's at some weird part of the city that he's never been to.

1:28

How do the machine compensate for the missing time and for showing up in weird places? Do they fake a UFO abduction?

They can see them

1:39

But 99% of the time they don’t because agents only get involved where it’s absolutely necessary.

1:39

It’s like lupines and that. The oracle talks about the idea of them all being regarded as myths in reloaded.

Metalogic

How do the machine compensate for the missing time and for showing up in weird places? Do they fake a UFO abduction?

There’s a small interaction in EtM where a SWAT member is talking to a co-worker and says “and then I showed up here” all confused. That’s the closest we get to see the after effects of an Agent leaving a blue pill.

2:58

As for if Blues can see Agents. Yes. Neo is arrested by Smith and Smith has a secretary point out Neo’s cubicle. They appear to operate like any kind of special agent spook.

That doesn't even get into the whole thing of an agent dying, that kills the bluepill so what's the fuck is that like?

Traumatic. But Agent deaths are presumably very very rare.

1

"Well, Mrs. Wilson, a teacher of 30 year was found dead with a gunshot to the head. The police has no leads."

Most homiacides are never closed. Also not out of the question for a quick cover up.

I guess so

Deleted User

Can non-awaken people see agents?

There's a story in the Animatrix that follows a bluepill noir detective who's hired to track down Trinity. After he finds her, an Agent begins to WordNotFound him, and Trinity shoots him in the side to stop the WordNotFound. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I think I remember the short ending with the wounded detective holding another Agent at gunpoint, reminiscent somewhat of the ending to Cowboy Bebop.

Gami

There’s a small interaction in EtM where a SWAT member is talking to a co-worker and says “and then I showed up here” all confused. That’s the closest we get to see the after effects of an Agent leaving a blue pill.

I also remember a comic in which an Agent loses his hand or part of his arm or something to, uh, a grenade maybe? And WordNotFound'ing away, leaving a stunned woman bleeding all over the sidewalk.

Spot on with Detective Story. And didn’t remember the comic (should read those again) but doesn’t surprise me.

4:42

Random piece of trivia. The 96 draft has Neo WordNotFounding Smith in the finale. Got changed a year later to the “blows him up” bit (edited)

And with regards to Lupines, Agents were just the 1999 version of the Mythological Scary Man-Thing What Serves a Bigger Behind-The-Scenes Purpose That You're Not Supposed To Think About.

4:43

Really? That's great. Glad I'm not the only one who isn't always confident enough to Shakespeare a word for my purposes.

4:44

OVERRIDE

4:44

THAT'S THE WORD

Lol like your take better

What would be an interesting take on a modern Matrix story would be an update/upgrade to the Agent to something more pop-culturally significant by today's standards.

4:49

The 80s and 90s Man in Black look being somewhat dated by now

4:50

I can't think of an ubiquitous "ambiguously scary Big Secret Keeper" type that wouldn't also be controversial, unfortunately.

4:51

Well, except for Streamers.

In a post-truce setting I could see them being replaced or reworked entirely. The G-Man aesthetic worked in the trilogy because the heroes are effectively terrorist and in a urban guerrilla war.

You think M4 would take place during a truce?

Man I got no idea.

Oh, I got it. This is brilliant, see, cuz it's already happened in MxO, and can be easily translated to film. A PMC!

Lol. I’m mad that that makes sense

I always treasured the way they answered a question I don't think anyone asked with regards to the Sentinels. (edited)

The flip side to all this that Agents are pretty iconic to the franchise and getting rid of that look kinda removes a piece of the films themselves.

4:56

Like I said I got no idea what’s gonna happen in M4 all I know is I’ll be seeing it twice opening night

Zippy the Squirrel

I also remember a comic in which an Agent loses his hand or part of his arm or something to, uh, a grenade maybe? And WordNotFound'ing away, leaving a stunned woman bleeding all over the sidewalk.

Matrix Comic Day In, Day Out

Yes!

5:27

Embedded image

Yeah so anyway Blues and Agents have a sort of Boogeyman-like relationship.

Zippy the Squirrel

There's a story in the Animatrix that follows a bluepill noir detective who's hired to track down Trinity. After he finds her, an Agent begins to WordNotFound him, and Trinity shoots him in the side to stop the WordNotFound. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I think I remember the short ending with the wounded detective holding another Agent at gunpoint, reminiscent somewhat of the ending to Cowboy Bebop.

The detective was also hired by the agents, so like the police, he had contact.

omg it’s zippy the squirrel

15:54

I love to see good old familiar names around here

One thing I don’t understand is why did Neo need to fight Seraph in Reloaded if it was established in the first movie that Neo and the Oracle know each other? (edited)

seraph explains it right after the fight lol

"The only way to truly know someone, is to fight them."

close enough

Going back to Agents - I've always wondered if they always need to be connected to 'hardware' - are they permanently possessing bluepills?

I always inferred from Morphs speech that they take over who they need then leave

19:50

They can move in and out of any software still hardwired to their system. That means that anyone we haven't unplugged is potentially an agent. Inside the Matrix, they are everyone and they are no one.

Yeah, they move from one to another, but they're always possessing one (is the impression I got)

19:58

They don't have their own RSI, is the way they seemed to present it (edited)

Sorta left open to interpretation I guess?

20:19

I assumed the program monitored goings on, and when an agent was required, he possessed the closest RSI to the action

20:19

then headed back to active memory to monitor

I guess they go back to the Source - probably why Smith hated the Matrix..."and I'd be back there if it weren't for you pesky redpills!!"

sixxth

I assumed the program monitored goings on, and when an agent was required, he possessed the closest RSI to the action

This is probably the closest answer. But I think there is still room for an Agent to manifest within the system but without a host. Examples being every Exile doing just this.

So do agents not exist when they're not possessing the body of a bluepill?

they're programs they are scanning around the matrix for anomalies

2:10

so they know where to appear

1

Yeah, I'm thinking they're system daemons when they've not assumed direct control.

Metalogic

So do agents not exist when they're not possessing the body of a bluepill?

No. For example Smith’s description of what happened to him after Neo beat him would imply that he still existed after being blow up. Agents exist independent of overwriting bluepills. Where and how that existence operates is unknown but I don’t think they’re in some purgatorial stasis when not operating. (edited)

Yeah. Was thinking of the Oracle's statement about the programs who do what they're supposed to being invisible. Maybe Agents are an invisible part of the system until needed then they 'plug in' to the nearest available bluepill

oracle

1

Makes sense that they don't require a physical form until it's time to intervene

16:17

And/or kick some ass

16:18

Chillin at the Earpiece Cafe, sipping on coffee waiting for the next call from dispatch :D

Maybe having dispatch rotation.

whining But I just took two calls in a ROOWWWW!

16:20

It's Johnson's turn!

That's actually why Smith went rogue, given the opportunity.

TIL agent smith was a slacker

Well, he was already on the edge anyhow... the interrogation of Morpheus when he takes off his earpiece.

16:50

The entire "what were you doing?" "He doesn't know." "He doesn't know."

Know. what.

17:32

That scene always made me be like WTF. Did he not know what he was doing when he took the earpiece off?

17:32

Only when I watched it a couple years back did I realise they where talking about Neo and Trinity attacking the lobby lol

Yeah I think Agent Smith taking out the ear piece & Persephone saying "he used to be like you" are the two most over interpreted scenes/lines in the franchise

bro, have you even been on this discord!?!?

EVERYTHING gets over interpreted!

And I even hypocritically endorse such activities

cookiemxo

2

hhahahahha

18:58

best answer

VaderA

Only when I watched it a couple years back did I realise they where talking about Neo and Trinity attacking the lobby lol

Fair thought, though as I saw it - they were more talking about Smith going off the handle, considering his reaction was an intense "Know what?"

18:59

But that does make a lot of sense.

Hi all…got a lore-ish question for you. Might be more game related, but I can’t remember where I saw this… just matrix.com or as part of matrix online. Anyone remember the early, early VR (might have been flashtime?) 360 views of the Neb, Logos, Trinity’s Zion apartment (maybe that’s Neo’s apartment…not sure) that you could view online? They had lots of cool little details like the scraggly, foraged bits of furniture, etc. I definitely remember viewing these on a laptop, not a console game. I lean toward thinking it was on the official matrix site.

Are you talking about whatisthematrix.com?

I read a great article once with the art directors who worked on the Zion sets, and they surprised and impressed me with the amount of lore-related details in Zion. The red doors being like the capsules, etc.

Unfortunately flash is no longer supported

Neo,atrixology, my man!

17:32

Typo, sorry, I got excited. I watch all your videos

breathtaking

2

17:33

Yep, that official site. I hoped someone had maybe done screenshots

Yeah I live here too with all these other Matrix Online delinquents

I know The Art of The Matrix has a number of concept drawings for the interior of The Neb (edited)

Yeah, I’ve wanted to get ahold of the art book

Ummm.... I think someone here mentioned a way to still view old flash sites but I don't know. The way back machine was pretty good until they stopped supporting flash this year

Do it. Like now. Thing is great. Nearly the whole film in comic form lol

17:35

Plus a shooting script and excerpts from the 1994 draft

Art of the Matrix is good

I was so totally confused by Matrix Online when I tried to play it years ago…I couldn’t figure out what I was doing. The concept of the online game was new to me. Plus I was in grad school, had a lot going on, not enuf extra brain power to spare

17:37

Yeah, I love way back. I do a lot of internet based pop culture research for my job. So it’s pretty essential.

astro_icecream🍦

I was so totally confused by Matrix Online when I tried to play it years ago…I couldn’t figure out what I was doing. The concept of the online game was new to me. Plus I was in grad school, had a lot going on, not enuf extra brain power to spare

I know this pain

There are some great librarians out there at a few universities who can work magic with way back stuff, but u have to have a legit research proposal to get help, lol.

Fortunately for me I had a faction leader who was also my roommate in the real world to hold my hand & walk my noob ass through the basics lol

Aha, yes…unfortunately my roommates like Sims online and WOW.

@astro_icecream🍦 also, thank you for supporting the channel, will be difficult to top last week but I'm not going anywhere

Sure! I’ll try to leave comments in the future. I’ve been following you for almost a year. I just rarely comment on YouTube

17:41

I’m there for all the matrix stuff, spoilers, no spoilers…just give me matrix!

17:41

And I love your comic book videos

17:41

That last one was awesome

17:42

I did want to let you know something about the comic with the old man who lives on the surface and thinks he’s a knight…

17:42

That story is an allusion to a very famous piece of literature

don quixote?

Yep

17:43

The whole “tilting at windmills” thing

17:44

Or if you’ve been subjected to the musical version, Man.of La Mancha…”to dream the impossible dream”.

well that sounds far more matrix related going off the title.

Yeah, that’s actually an irritating song in the musical. I don’t recall if it’s an actual line in the book, but it’s sorta the theme

17:47

I find the whole idea of the surface scavengers the most interesting element of the comics in general.

17:48

I gotta get back to Zoom meetings now. Nice chatting with you!

Yeah definitely do not hesitate to comment with connections like that... that's the goal, breaking down and discovering all the references and connections together

If the war between man and machine stemmed out of a conflict between machines advocating for equal status to humanity why was B166ER put on trial to begin with and not decommissioned and destroyed instantly? Doesn’t that trial demonstrate that machines had certain protections under law that they could even defend themselves?

23:47

In a half assed fashion im going to throw out that the actual war was between the world and the corporation that handled the manufacturing and development of the B166ER model and used their products as a means or protest to the government demanding they cease production of all machines that turned wildly out of their control

It's been a while since I've seen it but it's possible the short film is presented with a narrator's bias

4:38

Here's a question that I've been thinking about for a while: So the mirror scene after Neo takes the red pill -- sure, the mirror fixing itself and going hostile latex on Neo was a hallucination, but Trinity says something shortly after it first starts spreading up his arm: "It's going into replication." What's that mean?

4:38

She's monitoring his vitals based on other things she says

4:39

Or maybe she says "he's going into [something that sounds like replication]"

4:42

Something to do with the effects of the red pill, I imagine.

I’m 80% certain she’s watching his heart in case he has a heart attack

Zippy the Squirrel

Here's a question that I've been thinking about for a while: So the mirror scene after Neo takes the red pill -- sure, the mirror fixing itself and going hostile latex on Neo was a hallucination, but Trinity says something shortly after it first starts spreading up his arm: "It's going into replication." What's that mean?

I assumed it was just a stage of the tracer virus

5:43

Think of it like a pathfinding algorithm: the virus starts at one point (Neo) and rapidly spreads throughout the system until it can signal the ship. Once a link between the origin and the destination is established, you can trace back through the web to link them.

Yeah the shooting script says that Trinity is watching Neo's electronic vital signs so going to say shes making sure he doesnt have a heart attack.

Yeah, I think she says he's "going into arrest" or something like that. They all seem a bit concerned when he touches the mirror. Anyone else think that? I assumed he was having an abnormal reaction and that "thru the looking glass" type hallucinations maybe weren't normal. I can't recall any immediate red pill reaction moments in the animatrix or the comics.

Trinity: It’s going into replication.

4:11

What's interesting is that Trinity said "It's", not him.

Yeah, I'm not sure what "it" is, but the tracer as a virus idea up above makes sense.

Morpheus: The pill you took is part of a trace program. It’s designed to disrupt your input/output carrier signals so we can pinpoint your location. Basically the red pill is designed to cause lag in the I/O signal, so yea it is a virus.

The pill altered his consciousness. He was hallucinating and having physical reactions. It’s why morpheus’ code bombings were so dangerous. Have a heart attack, wake up and drown.

I honestly think the replication is talking about Neo now looking at the rest of the transcript

4:17

Trinity: We’ve got a fibrillation! Atrial fibrillation (also called AFib or AF) is a quivering or irregular heartbeat (arrhythmia) that can lead to blood clots, stroke, heart failure and other heart-related complications. Trinity: He’s going into arrest! Cardiac arrest, your heart stops beating

@Vesuveus do you mean the pill is the "code bomb" or is that a term used elsewhere that I'm not familiar with? Yeah, I did always wonder how people with muscle atrophy were able to stay afloat at all, lol. Whole extraction process seemed like an effective way to kill someone...

Metalogic

Morpheus: The pill you took is part of a trace program. It’s designed to disrupt your input/output carrier signals so we can pinpoint your location. Basically the red pill is designed to cause lag in the I/O signal, so yea it is a virus.

When you factor in all dialogue & visuals that go with the scene, my interpretation is that the other function of the red pill is to get the system to think the red pill is dead, or to fake death in order to get the docbot to flush the body. Looking at Trinity's dialogue, it might do this by simulating a cardiac arrest. The docobot gets the ping that the human has suffered a fatal heart attack. It goes to the pod, looks at Neo..."Oh look, this one is still moving around, cool." Then flushes the body because the human shouldn't survive (edited)

2

Neomatrixology

When you factor in all dialogue & visuals that go with the scene, my interpretation is that the other function of the red pill is to get the system to think the red pill is dead, or to fake death in order to get the docbot to flush the body. Looking at Trinity's dialogue, it might do this by simulating a cardiac arrest. The docobot gets the ping that the human has suffered a fatal heart attack. It goes to the pod, looks at Neo..."Oh look, this one is still moving around, cool." Then flushes the body because the human shouldn't survive (edited)

That totally makes sense. Explains the doc bot coming over and everything.

https://youtu.be/6e87DnVeb9k

Jam Punch Storytelling

What happened AFTER Matrix Revolutions?! MATRIX EXPLAINED

17:51

Not a bad video

Thought hell froze over for a second seeing Vesuveus complement a Matrix Explained video.

Seriously.

It’s not, lol. It’s a different channel.

22:39

Jam punch.

Vesuveus

It’s not, lol. It’s a different channel.

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed it. I usually only listen to new videos from Neomatrixology. I liked the snarky chapter subtitles in this one. One thing that always bothered me about MxO storyline, what I could deduce of it at the time, was the idea that it was Neo's idea to distribute chunks of his RSI in the Matrix. I'm just not getting the vibe from Neo that 1. He would come up with this idea (granted, it could have come from the Source) or 2. He would agree to it in the state of mind he's in at the end of Revolutions. I mean, wouldn't he be kinda angry and you know, bitter about the Idea that the peace he died for was going to get f'd up by either side? Seems like this was more an idea indicative of the Oracle and her understanding of fallible human nature and the inflexible logic of the machines.

I understand it was Neo. I attributed this to his hacker skills as a coppertop and then his new found powers being an efficient means of hacking the code of the matrix for hiding “spots”

3:24

In case he is ever needed again.

3:26

But when did he do it? 6 months between part 1 and reloaded? Before the super burl brawl? Did the Smith-splition disperse his rsi?

Honestly I always thought after Smith overwritten him and then Neo-Smith exploded, all the Neo fragments were from that explosion all over MegaCity.

Metalogic

Honestly I always thought after Smith overwritten him and then Neo-Smith exploded, all the Neo fragments were from that explosion all over MegaCity.

I can't believe Neo turned into a collectible pickup.

2

The fragments could not possibly have existed at any point prior to Neo's final battle with Smith. Some of them contained very personal thoughts on both Trinity's death as well as his impending sacrifice. And since a lot of the later ones were just corrupted nonsense, I figure those literally correspond to the moments where Smith over-wrote him.

4:07

I kind of see it as the cyberpunk equivalent of Holy Relics.

The idea to split could have been part of the truce with Deus Ex Machina, too. A sort of fail safe thing, cloud back-up sort of thing. I can see Neo agreeing to that. Otherwise, it just seems like he'd say...."forget it, I'm done. let me die in peace. " Unless he knew there was some way he could link up with Trinity again, which I know was part of mxO towards the end, but I wasn't involved in it at that point, so I can't speculate on Trinity's reappearance too much. I like the idea of the parts spreading around mega city as a result of the final fight with Smith explosion.

Always just wrote it off as being a creation of the LET and not Chadwick.

At the point when this happened, literally on what, day 2 or 3 of the game being live, was there any difference between what Chadwick wrote and what script the LET was reading? They were tangible (in-game) items that you could loot off the N30 agents, right? Or was it the Red Eye Agents?

12:16

Red Eye. They later became N30 Agents because we didn't work together.

Vesuveus

It’s not, lol. It’s a different channel.

Totally using Matrix Explained tag words in the description... that Karma tho

True, but matrix explained can’t monopolize the phrase matrix explained. There was an old matrixexplained.com that probably wasn’t theses tool bags

but what if i need the matrix explained to me

1

You already know there were plenty of "Matrix Explained" videos before the channel was even a thing (edited)

Can you explain that?

A long time ago we love the Matrix very much and made a video explaining our thoughts on it.

1

Imma need an explanation on that

0:46

You see when a YouTube and a Matrix love one another very much...

1

if anyone remembers: in enter the matrix, during the freeway chase there was a cutscene where sparks randomly asked ghost if he can have his personal processing unit. what was that supposed to mean

My money's on a PDA (edited)

An unspecified piece of equipment

but why ask him

4:59

is that some kind of "he aint gonna make it anyway so i call dibs on the PPU"?

Assuming Ghost is gonna die, probably

Maybe the thing he jacks into back in Zion to meditate in a zen garden construct

4:59

He asked someone for boots, too

I fucking despised the freeway chase and did everything in my power to minimize how long I would be driving in that dreadful fuckign vehicle (edited)

“Can I have your stuff?”

what a jackass

4:59

and yeah, driving overall was horseshit in that game

5:00

although i kinda enjoyed the first driving sequence cause it gives you a closer look on the city

There were two?

four actually

My brain might have scrubbed it from my memory

5:01

Two for each char, or four for each?

driving through the city with both, driving through the...idk what its called, its above ground possibly to prevent floods. terminator 2 truck chase takes place in a thing like that too. only for ghost

5:03

then escaping from the parking garage after the castle and the freeway for both

5:04

something like this, what is it called?

Image attachment

Dragonn

I fucking despised the freeway chase and did everything in my power to minimize how long I would be driving in that dreadful fuckign vehicle (edited)

On my recent replay I got absolutely stuck on that stupid freeway chase, because I kept dying too damn fast.

I haven't played it in so long, I don't have access to a PS2 any more

oh and also the tunnel chase in the real world

5:06

which ended up being a lovely bumper car ride cause everything had the exact same fucking color

Aquaduct

LA River?

Those are basically giant gutters. They're called flood drainage canals. They're in quite a few movies and TV shows, so I actually looked up what they are called once.

Always think Repo Man when I see those things, or Blood In Blood Out (edited)

Those are a blast from the past! I always thought T2 must have used them simply to have a place safe from onlookers to do that truck stunt. They didn't think of building a whole freeway like Reloaded (totally worth it).

15:46

I wish we knew more about Ghost. He was more interesting to me than Niobe

1

Eh, he was a simp for Trinity

astro_icecream🍦

Those are a blast from the past! I always thought T2 must have used them simply to have a place safe from onlookers to do that truck stunt. They didn't think of building a whole freeway like Reloaded (totally worth it).

Actually the freeway scene in Reloaded was filmed on an abandoned Runway and it's amazing how they made it look so real when you look at the behind the scene photos.

15:49

It's interesting how movie companies can use special and practical effect to achieve realism. Yet when you pull the camera back, it's just all 2x4s, plaster and sometimes barb wires

But he had, perhaps, complicated motivations for fighting. Niobe just seemed angry. Ghosts philosophical approach to thing, his aceeptance of difficulty, speaks to me. I don't really feel like I need to know more about Niobe, but Ghost had the opportunity for interesting character arc, through a comic or somethng

15:52

Maybe,hopefully, we'll get some expansion on Niobe's personality in the film.

astro_icecream🍦

But he had, perhaps, complicated motivations for fighting. Niobe just seemed angry. Ghosts philosophical approach to thing, his aceeptance of difficulty, speaks to me. I don't really feel like I need to know more about Niobe, but Ghost had the opportunity for interesting character arc, through a comic or somethng

100% on all points

Is it possible that there could be a co-architect of sorts?

22:23

Someone who keeps putting agents back into the system.

Can you cite an example of what mean? I would say that the Oracle could be considered a co-architect, depending on what you mean.

The Understudy

22:39

The Apprentice

A failover routine?

69.5

Can you cite an example of what mean? I would say that the Oracle could be considered a co-architect, depending on what you mean.

Someone who has the same access to the system as the architect.

0:55

Not the same powers but the same amount of access

0:55

Ie he can design evil

maybe a program thats less creative

22:50

with the architect creating the concept of an agent program and the other one creating variants according to given parameters

22:51

then again i dont see a reason why this kinda work would have to be delegated in the first place

An "Analyst" perhaps...

Fun fact: The Kid wanted to see whether his skills in the Matrix transferred to the real so he built a rudimentary skateboard and tested it in an abandoned tunnel near Zion. He found that he could barely stay standing, let alone skate on the board.

code_frag_01

1

tony hawk was a lie

hyperjump

1

Question that has forever bugged me...why does the Oracle have all the other kid potentials in her apartment if she knows (pretty much) that Neo will at least be the anomaly, even if she doesn't know what he'll do in that role exactly. I recall a comic about the kid potentials, but it doesn't really shine any light on why they're there. So, I wondered what you all took the word 'potential' to mean. Are they just potential red pills, or are they other potential anomalies in case Neo gets killed in a bizarre way? I always took them to be other potential The Ones because the film leads you to believe that's why Neo is there, but they could be potential red pills, as we know spoon boy ends up in Zion at some point before Reloaded. And one more nagging question on this topic: There's even a baby in the Oracle's apartment...how did they spot THAT kid as a potential red pill?

I always wanted to know more about how red pills were located, esp if they aren't old enuf to use computers or don't live in areas with access to them. I like that one comic, name escapes me right now, with the little girl red pill with the teddy bear (maybe it's a dog or bunny) that one of the crews comes to free. The visual style in that particular comic is great. Edgy and haunting.

Burning Hope is the comic I believe you are referring to

5:43

If you notice, we only see the children in the Oracle's apartment in the original... they meet outside in reloaded and Sati is baking cookies there in Revolution.... so what's the point. She stopped looking for potentials once she met Neo

Burning Hope, yes that's it!

Or in other words, after meeting Neo, she took a program under her wing. Prior to that, she was checking babies, and toddlers. Seraph fights Neo to identify him... the Architect only acknowledges the one if he makes it to the white office with the 2 doors & monitors. We can debate at which point the Oracle "believes" that Neo is the one, but hopefully that helps

Yes, that makes a lot of sense, esp the part about Seraph.

5:54

Considering the MxO storyline with the BIP in Trinity, made me wonder how many similar set-ups the Oracle could have had going with other potentials other than Neo.

5:54

Obvs I'm thinking too much into this, lol

No judgement. We're all friends here.

Oh I just caught up on the spoiler thread. So cool you got a screener invite. Hope u get to go!

I personally have a lot of beef with the BIP, mostly that I feel like it was too vague

5:56

Thanks Ice cream! Yeah I'm going lol

LOLFACEMATRIX

1

The BIP was too undeveloped for me, personally. Also, it just introduced lots of elements about fate and determinism that I found confusing in relation to the films themselves

Undeveloped is a good word. It could work. It is certainly possible Matrix 4 addresses this without using the word BIP too

Yes, that was exactly what I thought!

I'm just not counting on a lot of direct Mxo references, but based on things I've read and heard so far, it seems that some Mxo plot points at the very least inspired some of the things in the film

6:02

We'll have to see if they go full retcon or not though... but I just try to think of it this way... if there was direct mxo references, would anybody who is writing about Matrix 4 know that?

I'm guessing the writers, esp David Mitchell didn't really know many MxO details. Perhaps in vain, but I'm hoping for some sort of Cypherite faction to pop up. I think it's a cool antagonist or villain arc. Not called Cypherite, of course, but the concept

Yeah I was going to edit that for clarity... I meant bloggers writing about it...or those who saw the test screenings

6:05

Mitchell was working with Lana so she could have schooled him easy

Of course, bloggers wouldn't really know. I've read almost all of Mitchell's books, so I'm interested to see if the recurring themes in his writing show up in this film

6:07

They did a little bit in the season of S8 that he helped write, but the mains themes in his writing would be perfect for what we've heard so far about M4

6:09

Gotta head to bed, but thanks for posting a new comics video the other day. I prefer the comics to the Animatrix by far, so I'm glad to see them get some attention!

Thanks for watching! Yeah man I have been spread way too thin this summer, but hopefully I'll be able to get back on those when I get back from LA

Safe travels! You totally deserve to get to go to the screening. You put out the best matrix content anywhere. Have a great time

breathtaking

1

Thanks Astro really appreciate that! I'm going for you guys too so we have something to talk about & I can field your questions with confidence over the next few months lol

to add to the oracle question: what about the problem of choice?

17:31

the oracle predicted that neo will have to choose if either morpheus or himself will die. neo choosing to save morpheus, thereby choosing death for himself and thus becoming the one therefore doesnt seem to be set in stone yet, when he and the oracle first meet.

17:33

so she still has to look out for other potentials, in case that particular one, neo, fails at his task

17:34

no one can see behind a choice they dont understand, she say in reloaded or revolutions. at the point of their first meeting neo couldnt even begin to understand the choice she predicted he'll have to make TL;DR: she doesnt know yet if neo will be the actual emerging one, she only knows that he could be (edited)

17:34

(this was fucking confusing, sorry)

she also mention that Trinity is into Neo

17:40

and she said to Trinity that she would love The One

17:40

Sooooo... she kinda knew Trinity loved him, right?

good point

17:40

didnt think of that

David T. Gregory

so she still has to look out for other potentials, in case that particular one, neo, fails at his task

Gonna disagree here. She isn't looking for any more potentials after the 1st film. She's cooling with Seraph & Sati in both Revolutions & the Matrix online. The one is a system of control that routes all the unplugged humans in the real world to Zion so that they can efficiently be exterminated before any real threat of uprising. In Revolutions Zion is NOT destroyed but Neo was, at least it appeared he was dead at the time. We'll have to see how his Resurrection will be explained. By the Matrix Reloaded the Oracle says she believes that he is the One. By the end of Revolutions, Neo full fills the prophecy, ending the war. Even if the truce was only temporary, it means the 100 year loop is at the very least off set, if not removed all together. It is my understanding that the One does not overlap. So by keeping Neo, they know where the one is... they aren't looking for a "new one "

then maybe i misunderstood the original question. i read it basically as "why does she keep the potentials around if she knows neo - not them - will be the emerging one"

I always thought the kids were potential Redpills, not potential Ones

according to the wikia "Potentials (occasionally confused with Redpills[1]) were humans who had started to reject the Matrix to some extent, but were not yet fully awakened. Some had abilities within the Matrix, while others perhaps simply witnessed something they couldn't explain and were under threat from Agents as a result. Freed children were still called potentials during testing to see if they had what it took to one day become fully fledged operatives, as they were only able to join a hovercraft crew at the age of seventeen[2]."

That definition is even better because in Reloaded Morpheus says that in 6 months he's seen more minds freed than 6 years. So if the potentials are just red pills in training, the arrival of the one expedited the freeing of minds.

It also makes sense because most redpills were freed as children

19:05

except for Cypher for some reasons

Ouranos

It also makes sense because most redpills were freed as children

Do we know that to be sure though? I mean, The Kid was free'd when he was in High School

Kid wasn't freed he freed himself

Still counts

that's why I said "most" redpills

19:12

I'm not sure when Trinity was free'd

didn't morpheus state they do not remove adults because, as cypher said, they pop?

he did

What I want to know is how did Morpheus know Thomas Anderson was The One? Because according the first movie and apparently MxO, Neo wasn't the first "One" Morpheus had found.

19:15

Seems like Morpheus is just blindly picking bluepills to wake up

and Cypher said he was free'd nine years ago

So...the oracle interviews bluepills before they can be unplugged?

20:34

I assumed she was interviewing potential "ones" from the first viewing....

Yea, I always assume she was interviewing potential "ones."

20:43

They only show up in the first movie, and in the second and third movie, The Oracle's apartment is empty

1

She needs a bodyguard in the sequels so I think she just told people and potentials to stay away

"sorry, we're closed to new potentials"

"Sorry, position for 'The One' has been filled. Go home you little scramps." (edited)

“The Oracle can’t SEE you right now”

LOLFACEMATRIX

1

cookiemxo

1

oracle

1

"Your future is not in here."

20:56

So does Zion just have like an orphanage of kids who were awakened?

20:56

Or do they awaken entire families?

They’re probably raised like younglings

20:58

I don’t think the parents would be ready to be free’d

That's gotta fuck up the kids

20:58

Unless the kids were orphans as bluepills

I think script or deleted scenes explained that Morpheus suspected Cypher could be the One.

21:07

Anome turned out fine

Turns out Morpheus should have told cypher to shove that red pill up his ass!

21:08

(unless that works too)

There is this quote attributed to Morpheus on the wikia about potentials post-Neo being The One: “Between the coming of The One and the end of the war, Neo's presence within the Matrix sparked a new exodus of potentials. But, because they were unable to stop Neo, the Machines turned their attention to those within their grasp. Sentinels set a trap for one of our ships, and from the ship's mainframe they extracted a list of potentials. The Agents levelled their wrath on the helpless, and Neo was the only one who could stand against them.”

21:09

But no idea where it’s from

yeah, wiki articles are sus

Oh it’s in Path of Neo

21:11

So not canon

My opinion is we have 3 movies of canon....*maybe* a couple chapters of Mxo. Anything not written by the W's I dont take as canon.

21:14

Maybe M4 will reveal some stuff, but until then....

And ETM, and the Animatrix

nope an nope for me

21:14

stories inspired by the universe, sure

So… Osiris and Second Renaissance are non canonical for you?

none of its for me

The fact that ETM is directly linked and shot at the same time as Reloaded?

21:16

‍♂️

will, if the W's wrote it then Id be ok with canon....did they?

Yes

sixxth

none of its for me

Four of the shorts in the Animatrix were written by the Wachowskis. Final flight, Second Ren p1&2 and kid story

21:17

Wachowskis also wrote Enter the Matrix

To be fair, somehow I was thinking of the PoN when you said that

Also written and directed by the Ws

21:18

But officially non canonical

giant ants

They had fun

maybe the animatrix was fun too

The Animatrix is probably the only Matrix thing that could be considered as good as the first movie imo

21:19

Especially The Second Renaissance

21:19

A masterpiece

Yeah, I didnt like any of them

21:19

cartoon format isnt my thing

Who hurt you

LOLFACEMATRIX

1

I broke my collarbone once?

I mean, Final Flight of The Osiris and The Second Renaissance are 100% canon.

Haha I’m kidding we all have our own headcanons

As well as Kid's Story

and giant ants (edited)

Detective Story is also canon I believe

21:20

Or whatever it was called

The rest can go either way

I guess we'll see what holds up with the next movie comes out

But those three are for sure canon

Even Matriculated, the weirdest and least close to the movies of them all, is actually fascinating when you think about it

21:22

I really like Beyond

21:23

I hope they would make a second Animatrix but these things are so expensive

Not expensive enough for the lackluster love death and robots to get a second season

21:24

Netflix could totally make more animatrix

Warner Bros doesn’t work with Netflix

21:25

I think we’ll know when M4 comes out. If it’s a hit I could see HBOMax doing it.

Volume two of The Animatrix comes out, and we see Morphesus' death and it's a frame by frame re-draw of the MxO Cinematic.

literally the most disappointing thing in beta was Moshimo death event

Matrix is on Netflix tho

Wait that wasn’t in beta

it was

I wasn’t in beta and I met Morpheus

21:28

It was after launch

then they had the death event

21:28

nope

Chapter 1.2 or 1.3

I was in the beta event

Okay sure and ETM isnt canon

They released the cinematic in beta

we just didnt think it would happen in live

21:28

or....werent sure

The events were not in beta I was at the events

It was a mistake

ok

Photographic evidence haha

Image attachment

disk

1

All the major factions met with morph, I did too

He wasn’t very talkative

but they killed him

Didn’t meet him as an organization thing (edited)

21:31

He was bombing the place

ok, yep he did the code bomb thing as well

We sat on the bombs so people couldn’t defuse them

21:32

Good times

We had quite a large faction, and he called us to a meeting, was quite excitin actually

Image attachment

Image attachment

21:34

I only met him that once time

21:34

He fought Ookami and bombed the place

never got a faction meeting?

Nah we had a small French faction

21:34

Barely any of us spoke proper English

21:35

I say this a bunch of times around here but I basically learned a second language by playing an MMO haha

oh maybe that was it...seemed like he was meeting with all the Zion factions at the time

21:35

oh cool

21:35

good for you too, couldnt have been easy

In the end I could RP in English and talk with LE characters so it was fun

21:36

Had a bunch of one on one meetings with LE characters

thats cool- I only had a couple - got a cookie from the Oracle at one, did some event with Niobe and maybe ghost? too hard to remember

21:39

oh and the effectuator and....Wright, whatever her name is lol

Danielle Wright

hahah thats it

Image attachment

Hey, Danielle Wright didn't have the personality of a karen.

To clear up some confusion. The MxO beta was never canon. Was just a stress test for the game with some RP thrown in by the LET probably to give them a few test runs on what to expect from players when the game went live. Morpheus’ death in beta was a screw up. They weren’t supposed to show the 1.3 cinematic at all and hold it until live.

yeah i remember when they first "enabled" story missions in the beta

Metalogic

Danielle Wright

Speaking of Ms. Wright I had it in my head that she invented the EJP. I tried to check but can't find any information. Anyone else know?

@Gami I took it as the LET team actively encouraged player interaction, so I'm glad they tested for that in the beta. I used to constantly chat up Flood and Ookami when they pinged on Linenoise/Syntax (IC of course) (edited)

For sure. MxO only survived as long as it did because of its player interaction and the lowest points of the games life were during periods of low engagement by the LET and then LESIG/Rarebit.

FrozenFire

Speaking of Ms. Wright I had it in my head that she invented the EJP. I tried to check but can't find any information. Anyone else know?

I believe your memory is correct. Would have to consult the archive for confirmation

1

The player interaction was unparalleled. When Fyg got in with the Cypherites, Enmasc had me open up some weird email address for comms and recruiting. Like an actual IRL email! Was all very proto ARG-like. Never experienced the likes of such a dedication to RP before or since, what a time.

13:43

Then SOE happened.

(edited)

It more more the fact that it was financially unsustainable to continue. Nobody loves SOE, but the player base didnt support the cost of employing a dev team of that size

16:05

Rarebit talked about it on his old forums. If I can find the link Ill post it...

beta

1

yeah there is a reason SOE bought out the game... the player base plummeted HARD pretty soon after release.

Ebola

yeah there is a reason SOE bought out the game... the player base plummeted HARD pretty soon after release.

Well, they brought it out so they could have the license to make DCUO.

Still going fairly strong btw

2:28

Im tempted at times to play it again

Nah, I'm not giving SOE or any of it's successor money.

Not for spite or anything. I just think their games suck.

Spite can be a good motivator.

Ebola

yeah there is a reason SOE bought out the game... the player base plummeted HARD pretty soon after release.

Odd, it was because of SOE's acquisition that I dropped out.

nah, most people left when Monolith horribly misguidedly handled the mission XP glitch

5:21

SOE wouldnt acquire it if that didnt happen

^

Fygment

The player interaction was unparalleled. When Fyg got in with the Cypherites, Enmasc had me open up some weird email address for comms and recruiting. Like an actual IRL email! Was all very proto ARG-like. Never experienced the likes of such a dedication to RP before or since, what a time.

Yeah no joke. Even today I still think about all the RP we had back then, never again since have I found anything close to what MxO had, and God knows I tried finding something else after it got shut down.

I dont play it anymore, but Lord of the Rings Online has a pretty good RP community.

True story

I was meaning more about the interactin between the LET and playerbase in my post, really. I always thought of those guys as devs, never had the experience of a member of that team actively and in-character engage for the sole purpose of roleplay (which come to think of it served to further the plot and gameplay too)

17:25

I play(ed) lots of other games that have a strong RP community, though. I think if one looks hard enough theyre always around! Maybe notsomuch in the current day though- Ive felt that roleplay requires a certain amount of work reading up and immersing onesself in the lore

I haven't experianced a video game that had a real-time storyline and interactions with actual characters since MXO.

It's a wonder why no one tried to replicate the live event format it had

It was a cool new avenue to explore for MMO development, for sure. The problem lay with costs I'd think. RPers are usually not the majority in any game we find ourselves in, and justifying the salary for employees whom would cater mostly to a small portion of a player base wasnt viable. I wouldnt think a current employee would want the workload on top of their regular job either. Could look to the player community for such a thing, but that comes with its own problems like trust and maintaining company image and whatnot.

Then again, if I were a writer for a game like this, having a day off from writing to actually put my plot directly into effect in the game would be delightful I think

21:04

A dev or programmer, yeah maybe not, but a story/quest writer or designer would probably enjoy the experience.

The lore of the Matrix isnt really that deep compared to say Star Wars or comic books or the like. I actually think thats a benefit, as the 'bible' wouldnt be an overwhelming exercise in memorizing and theres some wiggle room to leave ones own fingerprints on story

True. While the movies have deep philosophical interpretations, on a surface level it's straightforward enough to write and incorporate a storyline that's easy to follow, and it leaves less room for a writer to pull stuff out of their asses. Maybe that wouldn't be as easy like you say in another franchise.

21:10

Like we had stuff like the red sky, pandoras boxes, constructs and the like, unlimited getting One-like cheat codes, etc, but it all made some sense with the established lore

21:10

Nothing really came out as an overambitious writer completely changing everything about the lore because he had a power trip

1

21:13

Can't wait for M4 to do just that. OH BOY OH BOY

Not really looking forwards to M4 tbqhwyfal

Same. Seen enoguh franchises come back to be destroyed in the last 10 years, Matrix is the one I'm the most protective of

21:15

If they pull some BS 4th wall crap like matrix within a matrix.... Man.

21:16

Already having neo and trin back is triggering me lmao

21:16

Should have been an anthology of sorts, like Animatrix. More stories in the universe of the Matrix, but leave 1, 2 and 3 alone in a time capsule

1

CorruptedRSI

Can't wait for M4 to do just that. OH BOY OH BOY

I mean Lana wrote the script so I don’t think that’s a concern

I don’t understand why people are mad about Neo coming back when it’s literally the last thing said in Revolutions

Because Neo’s sacrifice at the end was a big deal and revealing that he actually made it out undercuts the risk involved in achieving it

21:43

It would also be the only time the Oracle ever gave a straight answer lol

I don't know how they fixed his eyes though if they actually did (edited)

21:46

but I don't think L&L would have added that last Oracle if they never intended to make a fourth one someday

they can clone, and with the implants, shown with smith coming to zion, upload the last "save"

Everything I’ve read by them suggests that after Revolutions they were done. Lana only came back because WB was threatening to go with someone else. My take with the Oracle is that she was being more symbolic than literal. That they would see someone else like him appear and help shepherd and protect the new peace. (edited)

I know about Lana but still I'm sure they kept the door open just in case

21:55

and the fact that Neo is Jesus in Revolutions also could lead to a resurrection

21:56

I'm happy Lana is coming back because that whole Young Morpheus thing sounded awful

It would be cool to see stories from before Morph found Neo, just not from Zak Penn. That was the awful part imo

breathtaking

1

a TV show would be great for that

Meh, I am mostly unimpressed with TV shows based off of movies. A couple of the MCU shows were ok, and Star Wars seems to be doing things right, but I'm afraid we would get something like Mortal Kombat the Series, or Freddy's Nightmares. (edited)

whut how is matrix like MK or Freddy?

They are movies.

I still don't see how they can be compared

22:20

MCU and Star Wars, of course they're big IPs with a blockbuster budget

22:20

but a video game adaptation and a horror adaptation?

They are all movies. I am not comparing the movies... I'm calling them all movies.

22:21

And stating that some are good, but most suck.

I feel that ever since Disney started making shows like that, the doors are open

22:22

and Amazon is making a huge adaptation of LOTR too

22:22

I bet Warner wants to get in on that

22:22

GOT failed

Like I said, some are good, most aren't. I will happily eat my words if I am wrong.

22:23

GOT failed because that damn guy won't finish the bloody book.

HBO would work well for The Matrix

22:23

look at the budget they gave GOT or Westworld

Yeah

You do a side story about the first people free'd from the matrix or something like that

22:24

you can go for 10 seasons

22:25

well 10 seasons I'm overreaching (edited)

22:25

we don't want to turn it into TWD

I hate the commitment of forever series

23:11

3 seasons and wrap it up

I always thought 7 was a good number.

15 is a bit much though

https://www.amazon.com/Matrix-Comics-Vol-1/dp/1932700005

The Matrix Comics, Vol. 1

The Matrix Comics, Vol. 1

breathtaking

1

10:39

These are awesome

I gotta re-read the Neil Gaiman short story

10:58

that was very inventive

Happy with 10 seasons, just don't drag the "main" story out for it. Wrap that up in a couple and move on to the next one

9:43

I did enjoy how Gotham worked from s2 onwards. Every 3-6 episodes was their own arc, which generally fed into a bigger arc

Is Matrix the path of neo canon?

i doubt neo ever fought giant fire ants in the canon

Deleted User

Is Matrix the path of neo canon?

No

I wish the controller worked properly on PC for it though

Is there any dialogue or script writing about how Morpheus found Neo?

23:15

I am toying with a theory that Trinity found Neo, not Morpheus.

There is a little

23:15

Well cut dialogue

23:16

So it’s non-canon.

Vesuveus

I am toying with a theory that Trinity found Neo, not Morpheus.

Let me guess, Trinity was manning the operator's station one night, saw Neo and got horny

well Trinity was already creeping on Neo for months before the first movie

In 97 I think Cypher tells Neo that Morpheus had found five other “ones” (this got used in MxO and was even filmed but cut during editing.)!Neo in the hallway before he meets in the Oracle calls Morpheus out on this. Morpheus admits to it says he first thought that The Oracle told him anyone he deemed worthy would be the one. That he just had to point at them. After the fifth died he lost his faith. But then one day stumbled upon Neo hacking and was amazed at his talent. That he then was just overcome with knowing that Neo was The One. (edited)

Considering that the Oracle's living room was filled with potential Ones.

Were they potential ones or potential redpills?

I read it as other Ones like I said.

They’re never specified but the read I’ve gotten from outside material is that they’re just potential redpills.

23:26

No reason for the Oracle to foster “Ones” when she’s got Morpheus whose going to find the one and Trinity who will fall in love with the one. (edited)

I know PON is not canon but it was still written by the sisters: in PON the potentials are potential redpills not Ones

Well, Wachowskis described Neo and trinity as “deeply connected”. So I wondered if there were any details as to the crew of the Neb discovering Neo.

0:33

I always thought they were potential Redpills

Think that’s more commenting on their relationship and love for one another.

Image attachment

2

But seriously. The oracle designed them to integrate, basically. Looking back at part 1, the bip story can be applied.

1:30

I know I’m a minority in enjoying the mxo story, but I step back and try to keep my bias in check and just look for holes in the story where mxo can’t be applied. There’s not many

I have a theory. It’s not one I’m ready to share as I’m still researching it. But I agree there is more

Vesuveus

But seriously. The oracle designed them to integrate, basically. Looking back at part 1, the bip story can be applied.

I've always liked the BIP idea. Made lots of sense to me in thinking about the films. When I saw M1 the first time and Trinity brought Neo back, I was like, where the hell did that come from? Felt out of the blue until I watched it again, but still I think there's definitely a vibe that Neo and Trinity are connected on a deeper level than just being in love, esp in the sequels. I could totally buy a theory that Trinity found Neo first.

Maybe a detail for the animated series

Considering the cut Cypher dialogue, Trinity obviously kept her prophecy from the Oracle secret, even tho Morpheus blabs about his own enough. She could have found Neo, liked him, and not told Morpheus on purpose due to Morpheus' track record. There you go...more fuel for your theory

2:20

Ooh... Animated series would be great.

2:21

I've been enjoying Love, Death, Robots. It's popularity might help a Matrix series launch.

Cool theory.

3:06

I have a season 1 young Morpheus outlined

3:07

I think that is next for my queue

3:07

Netflix?

astro_icecream🍦

Considering the cut Cypher dialogue, Trinity obviously kept her prophecy from the Oracle secret, even tho Morpheus blabs about his own enough. She could have found Neo, liked him, and not told Morpheus on purpose due to Morpheus' track record. There you go...more fuel for your theory

Few things to note here. Another part of cut dialogue from Morpheus is him telling Neo that they have a rule and you can not share what the Oracle tells you. And on the other end, Trinity having any part in identifying The One was added later. I think in one of the 98 drafts. But early in her love for Neo is not connected with The One in anyway other than he happens to be The One

3:12

Also, on a comical note, Lambert Wilson commented once that watching the sex scene in Reloaded was like watching incest. (edited)

Ugh, Lambert.

What's wrong with Lambert?

He loves to defend Polanski these days

Eww, defending a child abuser.

To be fair he said the scene was off putting because of that

I mean, not the first time we've seen incest in film. Eyes A New Hope.

I thought they kissed in Empire

Either way

Gami

Also, on a comical note, Lambert Wilson commented once that watching the sex scene in Reloaded was like watching incest. (edited)

Uhhh....what? I'm confused. It's pretty clear Neo and Trinity are not related.

are you sure about that?

Though...glances at my avatar, yeah, they do look alike, lol

He was commenting that their connection to each other came across to him as siblings rather than lovers. It’s relayed through an essay Bernard White (Rama Kendra) wrote on his experience with the reception to the matrix Revolutions.

Huh. I never thought that. But I wasn't exactly examining the nuances of their relationship. I think I've always accepted what the Wachowskis told us about them through the films. The first time they meet...that's a very sexually charged interaction.

4:35

I think Lamberts off on this. And, Obvs on, defending Polanski.

Vesuveus

Netflix?

Yep, it's on Netflix. I haven't finished the 2nd season. There's one ep in the first season tho, that forever added nightmare feul to any movie I watch about outer space.

4:46

And I loved the one about the tiny world in the refrigerator. Those 2 stand out to me

If bread doesn't taste right in the Matrix, then neither does pizza. That is my single contribution to this.

2

Lumivarjo Ethereal

If bread doesn't taste right in the Matrix, then neither does pizza. That is my single contribution to this.

Does it taste like a chicken? neo

neo

I mean... Chicken tastes like everything

nah, everything tastes like chicken

But what if, chicken taste like everything?

what if you only eat chicken

What if chicken only eat you?

What came first the chicken or the taste of the chicken

The idea of chicken

I think the chicken has to come first before you can taste it.

And, perhaps, the chicken itself must become before the idea of chicken.

Plot twist: Everything is made out of chicken, that's why everything tastes like it.

Who woulda guessed.

But what if it really tasted like oat meal, or tuna fish

Wouldn't really know.

sixxth

But what if it really tasted like oat meal, or tuna fish

You're saying what we think is a taste of a chicken is actually tuna? (edited)

If the matrix tells you so

sixxth

If the matrix tells you so

matrixredpill

1

hahahahah

Maybe chicken actually tastes like black licorice.

I sure fuckin' hope not

Now I’m convinced it does

Proof or it didn't happen

Proof that it didn't or it did.

Hmm, the Schroeder's chicken.

Ouranos

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Epic gif. I'm saving it ft or future use!

I guess this could go in the films channel, but I'll put it here in case there's an answer in other media that I missed. My question is about the breakdown of the matrix in each cycle and how it manifests. So, acc to the architect, the integral anomaly appears ("is the sum of" yadda yadda) when the matrix starts to accumulate too many operating errors (sorry, don't know the technical term for this..."exceptions" maybe?). Does this mean that people still plugged in start seeing lots of weird glitches OR are all of those operating errors channeled into The One in the form of his powers? In other words, do the errors show up for the general public, or is "The One" like a destination file where the errors are all funneled, resulting in his ability to change the matrix at will?

He says it leads to a full system crash, so I've always been of the school of thought that the Matrix is some sort of a neural net, running stable in some part due to the minds of those connected to it. So as people stop believing in the system, it causes anomalies that eventually leads to a full system crash. But I think the One is brought in before the "cracks" really starts showing for the regular bluepill

0:46

Would make no sense to wait until reality starts breaking down to summon the One. By that point bluepills would already be rejecting it en masse which kind of defeats the point. (edited)

0:47

As for your last part, that's essentially it; the One not only has his cheat codes and reset codes, he also carries all of the corrupt data within him (edited)

0:47

When he goes back to the source, that data is broken down along with him.

0:48

He has multiple purposes, not just resetting the Matrix.

0:51

But I don't think errors = his powers directly. I think the latter are just given straight up by the machines, while he passively carries the corrupted data within his code.

I always wanted to see the matrix errors showing up for bluepills and was disappointed that wasn't in M3, but your thought about The One emerging before it gets too noticeable makes sense. I know the Wachowskis didn't want to have Christianity as the main interpretation of Neo as a messianic figure, but your explanation of Neo carrying the error files could be used to make a good argument for Neo's death being analogous to the traditional Christian interpretation of Jesus dying for the sins of humanity: Neo is not only sacrificing his life to bring peace between man and machines (the interpretation I always had), he is ALSO literally taking the error codes (sins of the world in this metaphor) with him to the source to be destroyed. Great thought experiment. Thanks for your reply!

2

People can still be memory erased too, if they do find glitch, or be "oh it was just a nightmare", for exemple what happen to Neo after his first intervention. But it seem that yes, the normal resetting happen before it really start glitching, with "false" dangers along the way. Smith and Neo were really differents.

1:07

Animatrix showed how bluepills can suddenly see errors and become redpills, without exterior interventions, but that's fairly rare... and sometimes really dangerous for them. For exemple, one child in the paradise matrix, and one runner, supposedly one of the One, who was a bluepill when his performances got him straight out from the Matrix, the jacked back.

Yes, I like the memory erasure aspect of things. Wish we'd seen more fun stuff like that; however, I'm also intrigued by how the role of The One him/herself relates to those glithces/errors showing up, etc.

1:12

I'm hoping we'll get more info on that in the new film.

Agree it would be interesting ! One of the comic expanded of how a bluepill could feel after being possessed by a agent (and multiple time), pretty fascinating. But after all, that's belief and seeing those errors plus his purpose, who slowly guide The One toward becoming a redpill. We will see in the new film... So many promises.

astro_icecream🍦

Yes, I like the memory erasure aspect of things. Wish we'd seen more fun stuff like that; however, I'm also intrigued by how the role of The One him/herself relates to those glithces/errors showing up, etc.

Related in what way? I think it's fairly obvious the One doesn't just appear at a convenient time out of nowhere, but is directly chosen by the machines when the time is right. Oracle feeds the prophecy to Zion and selects a bluepill she'd feel would be a good One. Then, through cookie or not, his powers are given to him directly one way or another.

1:53

01 knows when the Matrix is starting to be too unstable and the One is needed. Him/her appearing is a result of their direct intervention. (edited)

CorruptedRSI

01 knows when the Matrix is starting to be too unstable and the One is needed. Him/her appearing is a result of their direct intervention. (edited)

Yep, agreed. I was just referring to my interest that provoked my original question.

Though saying him/her kinda makes me wish we see a woman One in a previous Matrix

1:57

Like a side story about the fifth One

CorruptedRSI

Like a side story about the fifth One

Yes, I agree that a story with The One being a woman in a previous version would be an interesting side Story to explore somewhere.

2:02

We don't know what criteria the machines/ the Oracle, etc use to select The One, other than perhaps inquisitivness about the nature of reality & the ability to love other humans, so I've always thought that some of the previous versions must have been women. I think the machines would like to experiment and see if gender made a difference in the simulation. (edited)

astro_icecream🍦

I guess this could go in the films channel, but I'll put it here in case there's an answer in other media that I missed. My question is about the breakdown of the matrix in each cycle and how it manifests. So, acc to the architect, the integral anomaly appears ("is the sum of" yadda yadda) when the matrix starts to accumulate too many operating errors (sorry, don't know the technical term for this..."exceptions" maybe?). Does this mean that people still plugged in start seeing lots of weird glitches OR are all of those operating errors channeled into The One in the form of his powers? In other words, do the errors show up for the general public, or is "The One" like a destination file where the errors are all funneled, resulting in his ability to change the matrix at will?

It's not that the system starts accruing so many errors. It's that the larger Zion grows the more minds that are taken out. More minds taken out the more redpills inside the matrix. More redpills inside the Matrix more problems for the system.

Gami

It's not that the system starts accruing so many errors. It's that the larger Zion grows the more minds that are taken out. More minds taken out the more redpills inside the matrix. More redpills inside the Matrix more problems for the system.

Disagree. The Architect says that the anomaly is inherent to the programming of the Matrix directly. "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision." It has nothing to do with redpills hacking into the Matrix, if it was then the machines wouldn't really have a problem; just don't let them hack into the Matrix at all. The whole concept of the One is dependent on redpills going into the Matrix, meeting the Oracle, etc. No, the systemic anomaly is something else entirely. "As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." "Choice. The problem is choice".

7:46

The issue is bluepills rejecting the reality of the Matrix, which is why the first two Matrixes failed completely.

7:46

Although there, almost every human rejected it. In this new version, they've limited it to about 1%.

Keep reading, Neo answers that for you. It's all about Zion.

7:47

The anomaly is the 1% that reject the system. It's not just Neo. (edited)

I know, that's what I just said lol. Bluepills rejecting the Matrix are the systemic anomaly that the Architect is talking about, not redpills causing mayhem. (edited)

7:49

As for Zion, it's part of the solution of 01 to control that systemic anomaly, along with the one. Just another plan to handle that 1% that rejects it.

7:49

It isn't a problem in itself.

Right, but the problem is the exponential growth of that rejection via Zion.

Not Zion. Exponential growth of rejection, period. Zion was put in place by 01 so that all humans would hide and live in a city they can easily overtake when the time comes.

7:50

The city of Zion itself is irrelevant.

There's no exponential growth without Zion. That's just a flat 1% rejection with no outlet. Zion offers a means to get them out of the system by offering up a few answers to what's causing them so much anxiety inside the matrix so they don't break things. But eventually that solution grows to a greater point of instability. (edited)

A flat 1% of a population that keeps on being born, living, making kids (tank bred), dying, etc. 1% of a population in a 20 years time span or 200 year time span is very different.

7:53

That 1%, over time, causes a lot of damage

7:54

If Zion wasn't there (which is a contradiction, but let's just say), freed humans would make different settlements in the Real I would assume. It would become so much more difficult for the machines to kill them all when it's time for reset.

7:55

So they put Zion in place, the One chooses 23 bluepills to specifically restart Zion, and reset the whole thing. Then those 23 people jack in, look for bluepills rejecting the simulation with the help of the Oracle, doing the machines work for them, and eventually the Oracle sells them the legend of the One that will one day come back.

7:55

But the main issue here is people rejecting the matrix as reality, period.

7:56

That's the anomaly they can't get rid of. The rest is their "patch" to keep it under control.

Right I get all that. But what Zion does to that mix is isolates that 1% and organizes them. That's the real issue. Because now it's a focused effort that can create a lot more problems inside the system rather than an isolated loner who stays up on the computer all night.

It isolates them and organizes them, yes, but within the machine parameters. Zion exists because the machines want it to exist. They're no match for the onslaught whenever 01 decides it's time, the city was designed to be easily overtaken by squids. As for the damage redpills cause when in the simulation, it's acceptable collateral. They can't avoid it. People will reject it, people will try to hack back in after being freed to save other people. No way to avoid that.

7:58

By giving them Zion, they can control how they progress and operate.

7:59

Predict what they will do, how they will think, etc.

7:59

And when the time comes, fish in a barrel.

Only thing more powerfully blinding than fear is hope.

Similar to Mass Effect, the Reapers leaving behind the mass relays to "guide" evolution a certain way.

8:00

Zion is kind of the same

Again, I get that. But the reason Zion is eliminated is because of the focused resistance it threatens.

8:01

yes, Zion is ultimately on a losing path and being controlled. But it's still kept in check because it can threaten to blow the whole thing up with too many people running around breaking the rules and pulling people out.

I'm not sure where you get that. The One is always introduced whenever the Matrix is close to needing a reset. If Zion was designed by machines, it can probably "house" an approximate amount of humans. It would make sense it was designed according to about how much population the 1% starts getting problematic. But the issue is not Zion, it's the Matrix becoming unstable, crashing, and the machines losing their crops.

8:02

They couldn't care less about a Zion counter attack of any kind.

Zion is eliminated because it must be. It is part of the cycle. Realistically, Zion is no threat to the Machines with how primitive and technologically devolved they are compared to them. Sure they have hovers and EMPs but that's... Not all that powerful.

Losing their crops is what they can't afford.

What causes that instability?

Bluepills rejecting the Matrix.

Ergo Zion

Which can't be prevented

8:02

Thus, let them gather and when there's enough, delete them

8:02

Like useless files

You're mixing up things, dude. Pre Matrix 3.0, there was no Zion. Yet humans were still rejecting the Matrix anyway, and it killed two full versions.

8:03

Zion is a SOLUTION

8:03

Not a problem.

Let them gather, give them hope. Let them think they're powerful and once they let their guard down, strike.

Fish in a barrel literally.

8:04

Make it so all those pesky rejecters find one place to go to, a place we built and we can destroy instantly when the time comes

8:04

Otherwise they'll scatter on the surface like roaches

Keep them all in one place and it's far easier to exterminate them. Let them sprawl, and breed, and take over the planet again? Much harder. Give them their little maze to play in and keep themselves busy.

Exactly.

8:05

As long as they're in Zion, they're not an issue. They can't do anything against 01.

Yes they can

And humans will always choose the path of least resistance. Prebuilt structure? Let's claim it.

Just look at the damage three people do to a cityscape in M1. What three crews do in M2

All easily repaired

Power failures terrorist attacks. That grows more and more the more terrorist running around.

8:06

That's batteries dying as collateral. That's people seeing shit they shouldnt

8:06

we even have Morpheus tell us that in six months they freed more minds than in six years

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If collateral dead have to be turned to food, so be it.

Batteries die from sickness, car accidents, job incidents all the time

Yes this is controlled and within parameters but it's a growing risk and threat that needs to be watched and reset

In the grand scheme of things that's nothing. As long as their millions/billions in crops don't all die, it's all good.

8:07

Which a total system crash would do, and redpills can't cause that

8:08

Plus, you forget that Agents/machines can play with bluepill's memories when they're still connected to the Matrix.

Redpills can only damage so much, and with them being unable to even stand a chance against an agent, their existence is negligible at best.

Even a terrorist attack that kills say 100 people, no one would remember the day after.

Sounds familiar

They'd think it was just a dream or something

Everything can be edited on a whim

Think you're overestimating the efficiency of that tactic.

The issue is simply people rejecting the Matrix, that's it. Not what they do once they rejected it, but the moment they reject it. It creates corrupted data in the Matrix. That's the issue that the machines try to control since they can't fix it, everything that happens after that, redpills, Zion, the One, the prophecy and their unfortunate terrorist attacks in the Matrix, it's all part of their solution.

8:11

As long as the crops are safe, and the 99% stays asleep, it's fine.

Wouldn't be a realistic world without terrorists, after all

Rejection is an issue but it's a controlled one. The issue the Architect is talking about is the growing threat Zion poses if allowed to grow.

8:11

Again, Neo tells everyone what that scene is all about "This is about Zion" (edited)

Which is why it's culled when the population grows enough

You're taking it too literally. In that moment Neo realizes Zion is just another form of their control. It's essentially the reveal that "yes, the amount of people being unplugged and going to Zion is becoming a real problem".

8:14

It's "about" Zion, but it's also the reveal that Zion is another form of control

8:14

Neo at that point still thinks Zion is a free city of humans

Batteries: Billions, if not trillions Zion: A couple thousand Zion inhabitants who return to the Matrix: a couple dozen

The reveal that it's not happens literally at that moment

8:15

He also tells him right after to choose 23 people to "rebuild Zion".

8:15

Like it's obvious Zion is just a tool

The name Zion is hardly coincidental too

I get that Zion is a form of control. What I'm saying is that form of control is the representation of anomaly in the system that needs to be maintained and rest. It's not a literal reset of The Matrix. It's a reset of Zion. Why? Because that's the system that's about the cascade beyond machine measure and threatens to blow everything up. (edited)

Cleaning out the gutters at the end of fall for the next rotation of the seasons

The Matrix itself is fine. There are no growing errors or discrepancies or need to hit a reset button. It's Zion that's becoming an issue and Zion that has to be restarted. (edited)

Spring cleaning

No... The Matrix itself has to be reset. Neo carries in his code all the corrupted data created from all the rejections so far, and when he goes back to the source he's dissolved and his code used to reset the Matrix completely. "Coupled with the destruction of Zion" at the same time, it means a new fresh start for the machines

8:18

Both happen together.

Where does it say that

8:18

quote it.

8:18

specifically " all the corrupted data created from all the rejections so far"

" The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. "

And also quote me this "and his code used to reset the Matrix completely. "

"quote it" Dude, are you really getting heated over a 00s movie trilogy?

I'm not heated. I'm trying to get Corrupted to see he's brought in a few assumptions that aren't in the movie

How very English teacher of you. "This is the poetry, this is how I understand it. Now all of you have to understand it the way I do"

It's not about an agreement on interpretation man.

I'm not sure what's the issue though. Is it "reset the Matrix" that you don't agree with?

Yes

The entire point of The One is for a total reset. The entire point of Zion is that it's there as a holding pen so refuse can be destroyed.

Because I don't think that's the goal or on anyones mind

The One is the Matrix equivalent of putting in the Windows install disc and doing a full reinstall

And I'm saying it's not

Okay then, I'm not going to die on hill defending a phrase. Can we agree on this, then: The One carries with him all the anomaly caused so far by the rejection of the Matrix, all the corrupted data, and when he returns to the Source, his data is completely destroyed allowing the Matrix to be once again free of anomalies?

Because it's not clear if The One is supposed to reset anything Temperance

8:22

other than zion

Zion is destroyed at the same time in every case, so both happen at the same time.

8:23

But we're talking Matrix

8:23

Not Zion.

CorruptedRSI

Okay then, I'm not going to die on hill defending a phrase. Can we agree on this, then: The One carries with him all the anomaly caused so far by the rejection of the Matrix, all the corrupted data, and when he returns to the Source, his data is completely destroyed allowing the Matrix to be once again free of anomalies?

I can't agree with that. I can agree that The One carries a program but what the program is and what it does is never made clear.

https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Reload it is though

Reload | Matrix Wiki | Fandom

Well man, I mean the Architect literally spells it out for you word for word...

8:24

That's literally what the One is

8:24

" Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix."

Yes, he's the totality of the anomoly.

And by going into the source everything resets

All that corrupted data goes into the One, and when the One goes into the Source, he dissolves that anomaly completely.

But that doesn't actually mean anything.

Until another "reset" or whatever you want to call it is necessary again.

CorruptedRSI

All that corrupted data goes into the One, and when the One goes into the Source, he dissolves that anomaly completely.

Where does anything say this? Where does it say that corrupted data goes into him?

Go and watch M2

8:26

He is just shy of doing hand puppets to explain

I literally just quoted you the line... Man I'm getting exhausted. The SUM of an unbalanced equation.

That's not corrupted data

As in, all the little parts put together into one.

The One is always going to occur due to the anomaly. That's what he says (edited)

Corrupted data, anomalies, call it what you want, that's what it is. People reject Matrix = cause corrupt data/anomalies = said anomalies grow exponentially = said anomalies are put into the One, who is the SUM of all anomalies = One goes back to Source and is deleted along with every anomaly.

Whoa. no no. Use exact terms here.

Pedantic much?

Because corrupted data and rejection are two completely different things in my book

8:28

Corrupted data looks like Smith. Rejection looks like Trintiy.

8:29

That's not being pedantic that's keeping the discussion on track

It's a computer system. Rejections causing anomalies, that would be corrupted data. But whatever, who cares what you call it, just say anomaly then I don't care. Point is, the One is the sum of it all, and when he goes back to the source, it all goes with him

To a machine there is no difference

8:29

Either the data works, or it doesn't.

~~it does make logical sense that rejection would cause data corruption, you're suddenly removing an active device from the network and we all know the Matrix never figured out garbage collection~~

Dragonn

~~it does make logical sense that rejection would cause data corruption, you're suddenly removing an active device from the network and we all know the Matrix never figured out garbage collection~~

They've got crows though :)

I'm tempted to quote Rama Kandra; it is just a word

CorruptedRSI

It's a computer system. Rejections causing anomalies, that would be corrupted data. But whatever, who cares what you call it, just say anomaly then I don't care. Point is, the One is the sum of it all, and when he goes back to the source, it all goes with him

The One is the end result of the anomaly. He's not an amalgamation of other peoples rejection

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows. The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

I don't know how I can keep going seriously, I'm getting a headache. You have to put yourself in 01's shoes a little. The One is built by the machines to fill out that specific function; remove the anomalies/reset the matrix/whatever you want to call it. He is the SUM of the anomalies created so far by rejection.

8:32

Ie: machines literally putting corrupt data in one program alone, who's purpose is among other things deletion.

8:33

Like if you say "the architect doesn't say that word for word", well what can I say. He also says "some of my answers you will understand, some you will not".

No where does it say anything you're suggesting. What the Architect says is that Neo is the end result of this whole problem of 1% rejecting the system. That's in full stop. (edited)

Antivirus vault

It's literally that, thanks lol

8:33

In a computer system, that's how it would work.

It just hit me because I had to do it recently. Store the viruses, purge them from a single folder (edited)

8:35

And for added safety, restore to factory settings after purging said folder

No where does it suggest that. You're just adding that in yourself. And that's a pretty big addition to this whole schbang

Also this phrase here "Neo is the end result of this whole problem of 1% rejecting the ssytem", it sort of implies the One is naturally occurring. And he absolutely isn't, the One is machine designed.

Didn't think people could be made of osmium

Take that up with the Architect man

8:36

"You are the eventuality of an anomoly"

8:36

that's what he says

So is my antivirus vault when I do a clear up after "legally" downloading things

You are the end result of this 1% problem I've got. Your life is the summation of the machines trying to deal with being rejected on dates

Osmium indeed

And for the record, I’m just very passionate about this trilogy, any “heat” that might be interpreted in my responses is out of love for these topics and is not animosity to an opposing view

Your passion blinds you

Right, well for tonight I think I'm done. My head is kind of banging. Also would like you to just for fun go through the Matrix wiki for the Prime Program; your head is going to explode if me explaining this got you excited.

8:41

It's canon as far as the continuity goes

Find me another resource man that wiki is a cesspool of bad info (edited)

Ok, m2

Did they finally fix it to being 1% from .01%?

I have no clue dude, I literally just looked it up while talking to you because I wanted to know what it said about it

8:43

Coincidently it says the same thing I did

Fair enough lol

Yeah, here's my issue again. Nothing on this page about the Prime Program is sourced or explained. There's just a lot of assumptions and interpretation. No actual dialogue or interview to give it credit. "Each rejection (referred to as an anomaly by the Architect) is expressed in the form of a code within the Matrix which acts somewhat like a software bug." Like this line completely. Where does any of this come from? According to who? (edited)

Subtext

Ok. Again where? (edited)

Watch. The scene. In M2.

The way I see it, common sense. It's s computer program, what else could it be? Also, the One can't be a naturally occuring result of the anomaly because we know for a fact there were 6 total, one for each reset of the Oracle's Matrix. Yet Matrix 1 and 2 had complete crashes without a One to save it

8:59

So the One is artificially made. If so, for what purpose?

Antivirus

8:59

Implied

No no. What's the scene that sub-textually establishes that rejecting the matrix is expressed in the form of a code

Dude it's a computer system.

Ok. And? Where's it implied that program is even registering rejection?

Gami, if two people were sitting together, holding hands and laughing while gazing into each other's eyes, cheeks flushed, would you assume them to be a couple or would you require them to verbally tell you?

Tbh The Matrix as represented doesn't do that good a job of being a computer system.

This!

9:01

Holy shit so many times

It's a computer system designed by sentient AI, it won't make sense to humans

but apparently enough sense to infer without anyone saying so that it's keeping a tally of rejection and uploading that all into one human (edited)

9:02

not buying it

You never answered my question

We literally see walls and people as green code but assuming an anomaly is corrupt data is just going too far lol

Green text = blonde, brunette, redhead after all

Yes, we see people as code. What we don't see is code handing around counting extractions. What we dont see is some indication that Neo's carrying around every redpills ID number from when they got flushed

Question remains unanswered

Lumivarjo Ethereal

Gami, if two people were sitting together, holding hands and laughing while gazing into each other's eyes, cheeks flushed, would you assume them to be a couple or would you require them to verbally tell you?

Well?

What we do see is a lot of philosophical babble about belief and freeing ones mind allowing manipulation of ones settings

9:05

Which is why theres always been a huge question over what the hell the Code Neo carries is even about. Because everything in the films has told us that it's not about some code in Neo, it's his own talent, ability, drive etc.

Thus, the question is still ignored

Whaaaaat. My man what? Neo's powers are his own?

9:06

Aight I can't keep this up i need to sleep. Rabbit hole is getting too deep for how late it is

8am here, ahaaaa

9:07

(no, I haven't slept)

3am here

I'd ask to swap but... Then you'd be fucked

Haha

9:10

Convenient still how we easily forget Neo had no powers until meeting the Oracle and dying. Almost as if there was something weird there

Mouse comments he's never seen a human move that fast during training

I say the same thing watching the Olympics

Yep

Mouse would be an olympian in your comparison

Mouse is high level athlete in comparison

9:12

Not Olympian yet

9:12

Morpheus is

Either way, he knows the benchmark of what's expected from a newbie redpill. Neo surpassed that

Mouse is still young compared to the rest of the crew

True, but he's old enough to be on a ship and clearly has experience given he's written some of the training (edited)

Not only that, but there's been many times where someone has tried something new and found themselves to be surprisingly exceptional at it

Actually gotta correct myself

9:13

Mouse comments on his neuro connects not his speed (edited)

I mean, Neo is canonically not that bright so he's gotta make up for it somewhere

Going from better than average olympian to literal God able to reshape reality in a second after being emptied a 50ae magazine into, yeah, definitely nothing weird there

Favorite part of the canon: Neo is confirmed to be all looks, minimal brain

A bimbo, one would say

Himbo, even

Oooh

nvm he does comment on his speed.

9:17

"Jeezus Keeerist! He's fast! Look at his neural-kinetics! They're way above normal!" Scripts spelling for JC not mine lol

Speed doesn't equal God. Also if machines were to, let's just imagine for a second, select the next One. It could stand to reason they would pick someone with a natural affinity in the matrix. Just a thought.

Same way sports teams usually pick players

I agree. However the whole push behind Neo by Morpheus is a matter of belief. He's told over and over again to believe in himself. Told by the Oracle to "Know himself".

Besides, all he has is his neural-kinetics without the rest of his thinky-mush being used

He shows early talent but doesn't know how to use it.

And Morpheus is proven wrong about everything at the end of 2, and the oracle is proven to be a machine program and the designer of the current matrix

9:19

Wink wink

loud bwomp sound effect

it's true Morpheus is literally wrong about everything.

Morpheus: wrong about everything Neo: talented himbo

Spoon boy isn't though and probably gave Neo the only lesson he needed. None of it's real just an extension of your mind

Oracle: about as useful as the company

Oracle is the cookie-filled-with-code not so evil mastermind behind it all I say

So

9:22

Flash

9:22

Oracle is flash.

9:22

takes notes

9:23

scribbles out Neo, replaces with McAfee

McAfee Himbo... Tm

I'd buy it, if only for the box

Again, this argument is futile though. As I said, Paradise/Hell Matrixes crashed as a result of people rejecting it. No One to save them. Only six Ones so far, all within the Oracle matrix

9:28

The One is not naturally occurring, he is designed.

Disagree

Well quote me where they say he's naturally occuring.

9:29

On that note im off for real

ping me when you want that quote

We got too some precendents presumed "The One" by Morpheus who got killed by agents. That's a bit funny about it, to think about the number of redpill who were starting to believe they were the One because Morpheus told them so.

Neronn

We got too some precendents presumed "The One" by Morpheus who got killed by agents. That's a bit funny about it, to think about the number of redpill who were starting to believe they were the One because Morpheus told them so.

MxO canon, but yeah that was a fun twist on Morpheus' character

CorruptedRSI

MxO canon, but yeah that was a fun twist on Morpheus' character

MxO Canon is not "real" canon ?

I don't think there's a definitive answer on that, we'll see with M4 I guess

But yeah i founded that like... "Oh yeah. That also explain Cipher, and Neo dying first time anyway"

19:19

Oh, okay.

To me it is, but I still mention that it's separate before someone corrects me.

I understand !

19:20

MxO seem to be a.. Pretty interesting concept as a MMO.

It really was. Very ambitious in concept, just missed parts of the execution so it didn't gain enough traction to survive.

It was wonderful

If only the timing was better and there were more resources put into marketing. (edited)

You know what's funny? I think MxO and like one of those 3 months card were the first thing I brought off of Amazon.

19:24

And this was like in the very beginning of Amazon, where it was still mostly a book store.

Never played at the period (but I could, should have even)... But seem so ambitious in term of evolution, lore, even gameplay.. There is something, visiting the city, and entering the buildings. The music is really strange... The atmosphere. Radically different than Sci-fi or fantasy MMO. So I can only experience it in emulator, but I do like what I see.

We should take this to #mara-central BTW

agent

1

Oh, sorry !

CorruptedRSI

Right, well for tonight I think I'm done. My head is kind of banging. Also would like you to just for fun go through the Matrix wiki for the Prime Program; your head is going to explode if me explaining this got you excited.

My heads exploding from how this whole article is apparently just made up out of thin air. There’s a definition given for what a “prime program” supposedly is but where that's from who the hell knows. Like you can google “prime program” and that wiki article is the only thing that describes one. You wiki “prime program” and nothing comes up. This isn’t a widely used piece of computer jargon or descriptive language for coders. It looks like it's just a made up phrase for the movie. (edited)

i just now realized the implications of merv talking about the eyes of the oracle in revolutions

breathtaking

1

22:40

i feel so dumb now

Took me years too

Just had an idea out of nowhere. The idea that the crops of humans the machines need as organic batteries to power their sunless world always felt weird and half thought out. Morpheus (so Zion) is the only one that brings it up. Could it be possible that, like almost everything that Zion believes turned out to be false as the movies went along, this is also part of their system of control and not true at all? Like, machines feed this idea that humans are being harvested as a power source just to keep the real purpose behind it hidden? (edited)

7:30

When Neo confronts the Architect and says "You wouldn't allow it, you need us to survive", the machine just replies "there are levels of survival we are prepared to accept". This could be vague enough to be true without actually confirming the whole battery thing.

7:30

Just a thought that crossed my mind.

So Rarebit tried playing with that idea for MxO but was shot down on it. Wachowski's were not willing to bend on the idea of humans powering the machines at all.

Hmm I see, didn't know that. Doesn't mean there's not something there though

Granted, that response could have just been through a WB rep and not directly from the sisters.

7:33

I think I have the direct quote by rarebit on it. one tick

If they're not a power source of some sort, what would be the secret behind keeping the crops (beyond the whole "using their brains as computing power" thing people toss about)? Just theoretically

Don't have the quote.

No idea man

7:36

Just a thought

7:37

Machines trying to understand what a soul is, what Faith is, getting into heaven, reaching a higher plane of existence? Going full anime cyberpunk here

Found it.

Image attachment

Hmm interesting

I do find it weird that the Architect doesn't try to stop Neo from choosing Trinity over Zion. Even if he lacks emotion, the Architect would value consistency, efficient use of time, that sort of thing....seems like scrapping the power plants and moving to higher planes of existence, alternative mod es of being, etc would not be efficient or the best course of action or the Machines would already have done it? Why doesn't the Architect just push Neo thru that other door, lol? For that matter, why does he even let Neo know Trinity is in danger at that moment. He seems to just want to taunt Neo. Maybe there is an obvious answer I'm missing? Maybe the Architect is bored?

Probably has to do with him not understanding choice.

7:43

He can't fathom Neo's options. Doesn't make sense to choose the other door and risk everything for one person

7:44

There also appears to be a requirement on choice in this whole thing as well.

Granted he doesn't understand it, but he also seems to already know that's what Neo will choose, based on the dialgue about love as chemical reactions overwhelming him, etc

astro_icecream🍦

I do find it weird that the Architect doesn't try to stop Neo from choosing Trinity over Zion. Even if he lacks emotion, the Architect would value consistency, efficient use of time, that sort of thing....seems like scrapping the power plants and moving to higher planes of existence, alternative mod es of being, etc would not be efficient or the best course of action or the Machines would already have done it? Why doesn't the Architect just push Neo thru that other door, lol? For that matter, why does he even let Neo know Trinity is in danger at that moment. He seems to just want to taunt Neo. Maybe there is an obvious answer I'm missing? Maybe the Architect is bored?

Choice. The problem is choice.

7:45

System can't work without humans having a choice.

Yes, the choice thing is crucial. I'm fine to accept the explanation that Neo has to make the choice freely

I think he's a uninterested or unphased as he is just because he's a machine. Like how the machines in MxO were the only ones loyal to the Truce once it began. Is this how things are? Yes? Then that's how it is.

7:47

Is Neo choosing to sacrifice humanity? Yes? So be it.

He's also certain of Zion's destruction but we see how that roles out. I think he can process consequences and outcomes. It's the decision making behind them that isn't quite there.

7:47

So give them two doors. Yes one is going to screw us but like who would pick that? Oh you did. Ok welp that's how this goes I guess.

Right, he only sees the predicted path of a choice. Can't imagine anything outside normal parameters.

7:48

You sacrifice humanity? Humanity dies 100% sure, no other possible outcome.

Yes, the disinterested bystander view makes sense. So for the 5 previous ones, what was the 2nd option?

Oracle: Hold my fucking beer, mate.

Try to save Zion?

Same as Neo; obey, or don't and return to the Matrix.

7:48

The other door just led back to the Matrix, no twist. For Neo, it meant Trinity

7:49

But the door wasn't specifically Trinity.

They didn't have a very difficult choice if choice 2 was "sit in your Hovercraft and watch Zion and humanity destroyed, buddy"

Sure, but then again the other 5 all took the deal.

7:49

It was a no brainer

7:49

Architect didn't count on Neo not having a brain in the first place

7:49

(har-har)

Lol. We do tend to think of Neo as not being very smart. But it's not really in the script. I guess it's cuz he spends so much time asking questions?

Well both the Oracle and Smith comment on him not using his brains much

7:52

So it's canon that he's a himbo

I think he's not very intelligent emotionally.

I say this but then again, the Architect comments on him understanding things quicker than the other 5.

7:53

So, they must've been super dumb

7:53

Turbo himbo's/bimbo's.

7:53

Maybe the Oracle has a thing about dumb Ones.

He's probably above average in the usual ways, to work for the oh so important MetaCortechs. And I think k he gets more emotionally intelligent as th ngs go along. I think he's really more oblivious to certain things rather than not smart.

7:54

But, yeah, I also always think of him as not that bright. Even though I can argue against it!

He's still charming, I love Neo. Just wish he'd show his emotions more, especially as the MC.

7:55

He's so stoic in 2/3 it's hard to care.

7:55

I like him in 1 a lot more.

7:57

The only times he seems humans is when talking to the Oracle, not sure why. He drops his guard with her.

I think charming is the right word. You sorta want to pat him on the head. Neo is an "everyman" character for the audience to identify with, and yes that works much better in M1 because he's so confused.

Blessed Himbo Neo

breathtaking

1

In 1 he has the iconic freak out moment, iconic "woah" moment, iconic smirk when dueling Morpheus in the dojo, he's a character.

7:58

In 2/3, iiiissh..... He's a boring monk.

I agree about his conversations with the Oracle. It could be something as simple as the fact that Gloria Foster was a really good actress and brought out a better performance in Keanu

And that's unfortunate because even as the One, he should still be this naïve, impressionable guy we saw in one.

I like the idea of a himbo messiah as opposed to an all knowing one. Just a normal dude with wacky powers.

Same Temp

7:59

I was saying how the Architect said he understood things faster than the other five. They must've been super himbo's/bimbo's if he thinks Neo is smart.

Neo... The smart one. No wonder Zion got demolished so many times.

Hahaha

"This guy has a lot of TVs, must be pretty smart. Better do what he says..."

Still, those other five didn't have a virus destroying the Matrix itself, forcing 01 into a corner and opening up a new solution for peace.

8:02

Refuse his deal, literally everyone dies.

8:02

Bimbo or not, you'd take the deal.

1

8:03

Imagine how their friends in Zion felt once they saw that the One didn't fix anything, and they got slaughtered.

8:04

That would make for a very grim movie I'd still very much like to see.

The only good prequel

Never thought of that. I'd like it, too!

Like, we follow the fifth One, make it a woman because why not, have a whole plot unique to her own cycle (no Smith virus or anything like that, maybe a more personal plot, or more exile/Merv centered), and end it on a really grim note.

8:05

With a final scene with the Oracle, as is tradition, having had enough of this cycle BS and thinking it's time for a change.

And no love interest because that is a tired trope

Her sacrifice meaning that human kind still lives on for another chance to save themselves with the next One.

She's doing this for the people as a whole, she thinks - no, knows she can save them.

Like hope despite the absolutely terrible ending for every character.

Fantastic plot idea!

They can't win this cycle but maybe the next, who knows

8:06

Heartbreaking moment as she steps through the door in tears.

8:06

Man that'd be good

But that moment of realization when it hits her. She can't save them all. She isn't the hero, not in the way she thought... Goddamn

Exactly.

Someone get the sisters, we have a movie

breathtaking

1

Hahaha

8:07

An anthology series is what the Matrix needs. The universe is so rich with potential stories, we can't forever be stuck with Neo/Trin/Smith

8:08

Like in the Animatrix, that short about the detective

8:08

Wasn't that really good?

Stop making me long for things I can never have

Man you never know. We're in the age of direct-to-streaming TV shows and movies, it's easier than ever to make content now

8:09

If M4 is successful in any significant way, for sure it's a possibility

Goddammit if I had a single atom of talent I'd be right on this as a story.

I'd give an anthology series a 50/50 chance of happening if the film does well at all.

I'll take those odds

I'll be in the corner throwing a tantrum for a Platinum Games Matrix release

I'll take anything at this point, as long as it's at least moderately good. Don't turn this into an annual franchise like Disney/SW/Marvel, that's too much. But one or two good tv shows and movies in the next ten years, along with a game or two, I'd be hyped.

Gotta be Platinum though. The combat systems in Bayonetta and Metal Gear Rising would be fucking delicious in a Matrix game

Would it work for martial arts though?

8:13

Isn't it a little too much into the "wwwoOOOOOooAaaaaAAAhhhh CCUUURRRAAAZZYY" for Matrix?

Gotta go, but was a pleasure to witness the birth of a fine prequel film plot

breathtaking

1

Rising's combat was surprisingly toned down in comparison, if you take away the superbly precise sword aiming mechanic

I guess the freshest Platinum game in my mind right now is Automata and I really didn't like it so maybe it's on me. Haven't played MGR in forever so it's vague in my mind.

I uh... May have played my copy to death

As for Bayonetta, never played any of them

8:15

MGR or Automata?

MGR

8:17

Yet to play Automata

I'm not recommending it, as I said I didn't like it much at all.

8:17

But I know people swear only by that game

It's one of those games where I'm not going out of my way to buy it, but if it's ever dirt cheap on sale I might pick it up

PC port was terrible anyway

They usually tend to be, it's why even though I prefer PC, I keep with console

Usually they're still playable with a controller just fine, it's mostly for k&m that they're terrible and not optimized at all. But Automata was a bad port in every aspect. Even things like widescreen support on PC was fubar

8:19

Like absolutely 0 effort.

How do you fuck up widescreen in a current gen game

I know right

8:19

And cutscenes would be prerendered, unlike consoles, and really low res. With like audio delays and stuff like that

8:19

Anyway

8:20

Back to what you said earlier, "if I had a lick of talent I'd be right on that" about a prequel. Would you be interested in throwing a few ideas just for the fun of it? See if we can get a few heads together and come up with a good-ish plot?

consider me interested

Haha nice. We could throw a few ideas like we did already, see if it gets any traction with other members. If it does, maybe make a # about it.

8:22

Just an exercise for fun

If this takes off, it'll be wild

Can't have too many chefs in the kitchen though, if it really does. But it'll be fun

8:23

Plus it would keep us busy and in the mood until M4.

8:23

Like, for example, you said no love interest because it's a tired trope. Since Neo's journey was decided by love, I agree there shouldn't be any. She should be in love with Zion, so to speak, in a way Neo never was.

8:24

Really drive in that Messiah complex

I'm thinking for the lead though, idk maybe a generic name like... Grace somethingorother... Not quite the famous hacker but she's disillusioned. Can't hold down much in the way of a job, can't stand the media. Normal as it gets, but she'll be very quick to accept the change. Uncomfortably quick.

1

Don't make her a monk. Maybe kind of a hothead? Super big heart, really compassionate, but tends to jump in without thinking enough, especially when someone she loves is in danger.

8:33

Like, make her a not-so-perfect One that can get in trouble, or get people in trouble by mistake, by acting too rashly, things like that.

8:34

But super compassionate, heart of gold, really close to the people of Zion, taking the time needed with each one. Really buying into the whole prophecy thing, accepting that as her role.

8:35

I'd put the Merovigian, Persephone, exiles and constructs more in the story than in Neo's. Make them the primary antagonist/obstacle. I liked the idea from the other day's video to have the One fight exiles in a construct outside the Matrix and be vulnerable to injury, like Neo was in the train station. Flip the concept on its head for a chapter or two. Delve more into twisted gothic horror constructs maybe, victorian era vampires, stuff like that.

8:36

No Smith so we gotta find an antagonist that works. If not them, something else but good enough to be interesting and filled with lore.

8:38

As for her name, I'd leave that for later. Not really important this early.

CorruptedRSI

I think he's a uninterested or unphased as he is just because he's a machine. Like how the machines in MxO were the only ones loyal to the Truce once it began. Is this how things are? Yes? Then that's how it is.

Wait you mean humans were doing bad things after the truce ?

11:40

If I remember right, the precedent One were "programmed" to love humanity more than a person, and so chosing each time to save them, but by telling Trinity she would love the One, the Oracle triggered a romantic relationship between the One and Neo, making him choosing her over the rest (and trying neverless)

They’re not programmed. They’re guided to adopt a more altruistic love for humanity as a whole rather than a singular love. It’s not a choice if they’re just following a programmed routine.

13:03

And everyone was pushing the limits on the truce in MxO. Machines were running a whole other side organization dedicated to sabotaging Zion’s efforts to free bluepills (Cypherites) and were also overwriting peoples memories and personalities (Cryptos and the people Seraph attacked). (edited)

Gami

They’re not programmed. They’re guided to adopt a more altruistic love for humanity as a whole rather than a singular love. It’s not a choice if they’re just following a programmed routine.

That's why choice is an illusion.

13:29

And this is not just Merv. The Oracle says it too: "you have already made the choice, now you have to understand it." Like it is programmed, with a beginning and an end, what a simulation is.

I would guess Neo is an AI trained for an unknown purpose led by the same who has faced us against a common enemy, the machines, to unite humanity and blind us from the truth of the only real threat: humans. (edited)

Neo is not an AI. not a machine. Not a program. He is human.

18:45

"You have many questions, and though the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human"

Technically everyone in that world is artificial if they're "lab grown"...

18:46

And he certainly lacks the I in AI

You could argue Neo has more intelligence, with all the information he receives, he doesn't just believe it. He makes his own choices

He's canonically not very smart. It's pointed out a few times.

18:49

I think a few folks in this server have officially given him the title of Himbo

Listen to Tank https://youtu.be/SRs8DgV1cDE?t=58

I call my dog a bear, doesn't make him one.

18:52

Calling someone doing some crazy physical or mental feat a machine is common

The point is that there's no dog.

Uhhh huh.

@Gami a human with superpowers in the "Real World"? More like a god?

And? Architect says he’s human. Merv says he’s human. Agents say he’s human. Morpheus and Dozer operated on him and don’t see anything g suggesting he’s not human

19:00

But let’s listen to one comment by a guy exaggerating.

Would you trust all of them if they say so?

I mean I'd trust Dozer at least

poor Dozer he was the one

Yes because they all have better insight into what’s happening than Tank who is just an operator. and again Dozer and Morpheus OPERATED on Neo. Literally rebuilt his muscles (edited)

I dunno, it just seem like they combined acupuncture with electro-stimulation to rebuild his muscles

But let's assume Tank isn't exaggerating. Why isn't he freaking out and losing his shit. The guy that's supposed to save everyone just got exposed as a machine......and no one cared?

Gami

"You have many questions, and though the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human"

"Though the process has altered your consciousness"... The Architect tells us that Neo is hybrid. Program mind/consciousness/soul or whatever you like to label that as in a human body.

Are we taking Tank's line " Ten hours straight. He’s… a machine." too literally?

Oh shit, you guys, I found some machines!

Image attachment

agent

3

I see Tank's comment as subconscious

Machine or not, getting a machin conscience on a human body is still possible.

19:08

But when I was talking about programmed to do so, the " was to precise to not be too litteral. As GamiSB said, the Ones were guided, and I was not capable of finding the right word at the moment, I used "programmed", as a metaphor and way to point the irony of things, of the determination of beings when their whole lives are decided a in way by the machine (even their codes) to become the Ones.

Neronn

Machine or not, getting a machin conscience on a human body is still possible.

Thats the whole point of Bane. BALANCE. They showed us that not only is a program able to exist in a human body, but we know Smith & Neo are connected. Smith can only do this after Neo corrupts him.

They are still human, they still have the choice, but the machine know this is the illusion of choice and it will be humanity over singular love, ensuring the stability of the matrix. Until well... The Oracle things set into motion. (edited)

oracle

1

19:09

Bane is a really interesting concept !

Cookie monster

Never said Neo isn't human, I'm specifically saying that he is both Human & program. Doesn't have to be one or the other, in this case it's both.

No no, don't worry Neomatrixology, I was saying that about my own words, because someone responded to me "he is still human".

19:11

But I think you are maybe right on this one, both human & program.

19:12

Well, the frontier between humanity and machine can be pretty thin... As a program said, it was only a matter of interactions for him.

Disagree. "Temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose. And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love." "Denial is the most predictable of all human responses." Architect twice times over calls Neo human and puts him down for being such. (edited)

19:12

Sorry that first one is Smith. (edited)

It's funny you talk about love, because I was talking about that too ! Smith think machine cannot express love, but the Sali and her father show he can feel it too in a way, calling it interface and interactions, about the love he have for her.

Then Smith was human too when he denied after corrupting Neo?

Despite that, the entire family was just a program.

Smith was corrupted by humanity

Smith was corrupted by Neo

Thus, humanity

No one said Neo wasn't human, but he carries machine programming as well. (edited)

Metalogic

Smith was corrupted by Neo

He was showing some human emotions and needs even before that.

Love was also showed in Animatrix, by the love machines have for humanity despite the problems. Some interpretations (that I share) have the yellow color used for the machine but also love, yellow being used for Seraph inside the Matrix.

He wanted out

What if machines are looking for that, humanity?

CorruptedRSI

No one said Neo wasn't human, but he carries machine programming as well. (edited)

And I think that's true.

Oh ok, Yeah, both means he is still human, so the Architect saying he is human doesn't debunk anything. Neo also chose not to return to the source at which point he became an exile. Smith program was not human but BANE was...so Bane with a Smith host is hybrid, proving that Hybrid can exist in the MATRIX universe.

Neronn

It's funny you talk about love, because I was talking about that too ! Smith think machine cannot express love, but the Sali and her father show he can feel it too in a way, calling it interface and interactions, about the love he have for her.

He's not saying machines can't express love. He's saying its worthless and originates out of humans.

Machines have no need for love, unlike humans which require it

Neomatrixology

Oh ok, Yeah, both means he is still human, so the Architect saying he is human doesn't debunk anything. Neo also chose not to return to the source at which point he became an exile. Smith program was not human but BANE was...so Bane with a Smith host is hybrid, proving that Hybrid can exist in the MATRIX universe.

If you're calling him a hybrid you gotta show where we get that. Not saying hybrids can't exist. Saying Neo isn't one.

I can understand it originate from human, but then, we have seen machines also feeling some kind of love, pure love even (sali father, Animatrix), without human intervention or at least, not even to humans sometimes (except Animatrix showing machines loving humans, or more, humanity).

Gami

If you're calling him a hybrid you gotta show where we get that. Not saying hybrids can't exist. Saying Neo isn't one.

https://youtu.be/j6cLMVSwdGk

Why Neo Has Powers Outside THE MATRIX | WiFi Jesus F!nally Explained

19:17

I go over all we discussed here & more in greater detail

19:19

It's there and if you take a non-linear approach to these topics you'll find that there is no need to debate human vs program or science vs religion because the universe is setup to facilitate both... that's the twist. That's why there is no "wrong" answer... things are left open by design (edited)

2

In a way, we could use this for reference. Caution, it's a bit grim : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbZYsg7PFkw

Animatrix The Matrix is Created

We also have to bear in mind that the machines happened because of humanity, and naturally they will take traits from that.

Gami

If you're calling him a hybrid you gotta show where we get that. Not saying hybrids can't exist. Saying Neo isn't one.

Isn't it clearly said when the Architect says that if he takes the door, he will be carried back to the source and the code he carries will be disseminated, and the prime program reinserted. If Neo is 100% human, how would you explain that?

Every RSI is made up of code. Script for Revolutions for example has The Merv read Trinity's code and comment on how insanity and love look alike. Rama Kandra reads Neo's code which makes him feel as if he's being looked into.

19:31

There's a few other instances that got cut. The Oracle for instance was supposed to look like Seraph through Neo's vision. (budget reasons) (edited)

19:33

imo the Architect is saying Neo's RSI gets spread throughout the source. Signaling to the source that the cycle is completed and triggering the next one.

Explaining it with things not in the movies doesn't seem really fair tbh.

So using cut content is fine, but subtext doesn't exist

Well those first two are.

19:34

Like those scenes are still in the movie we just have to infer what Rama and the Merv are actually looking at.

19:35

"I can see you are in love" - Rama.

That doesn't mean he "read his RSI" at all. He's just intuitive enough to see it. Now you're the one getting to conclusions.

I'm pointing at a script. Better than a made up wiki article. Either way we see through Neo everything in the Matrix is made up of code

When people are in love, there are subtle little intricacies to their expressions, body language, behaviors. You don't need to read someone in-depth to see it.

Get over the whole wiki thing dude, I told you I checked it after we talked just to see what it said, you said fair enough.

The slightest shift in the tone of one's voice, the widening of the pupils...

19:38

It's been a while, the question I offered Gami hasn't been answered yet.

I couldn't care less about it, I can make up my own mind about things

I would hope making up your mind wasn't based off bad info that someone just threw up on the internet no citations. Like you want to talk fair in interpretation and say the scripts aren't good enough but head canon is?

19:40

alright man sure go for it

You're dying on this hill alone, mate.

oh no

19:41

how sad

19:41

what ever will i do

Why are you so passive aggressive, man? We're just talking. Disagreeing is fine, but you're taking this way too personally.

None meant.

19:44

Apologies for coming off that way

Do we have a source for the "the machine select a random bluepill and give him the code that will make him the One" ?

It's somewhat implied due to what the Oracle is

That's what I was thinking with the cookies, I must admit.

20:07

(As we know food can carry codes to have multiple effects on a program or bluepill)

Don't forget the candy in 2

If you go down the B.I.P. rabbit hole that could suggest the One isn't randomly selected

Oh, you're right with the candy ! The B.I.P ?

Biological Interface Program

(semi related, does anyone have a gif of neo nibbling on that cookie?)

Mxo storyline stuff

20:10

Image attachment

Cookie theory makes the most sense given what the Oracle is.

20:13

She's the one Zion go to when looking for the One, implied in every cycle

Neomatrixology

Biological Interface Program

Oooh, was it a way of changing the body with machine ?

20:16

Well that have sense. They see the Oracle, she give the cookie to the suitable one, boom.

Neronn

Oooh, was it a way of changing the body with machine ?

The short answer is that it was a way to bring Trinity back lol

Ooooooh nice !

The Oligarchs wanted BIP to transfer their consciousness into a new host...but if the Oracle used the B.I.P. to connect Trinity to Neo then the whole searching for Neo was a bit of a charade. I feel like there's a lot of unanswered questions when it comes to the Bip

Well the way I see it is Trin is the reason this cycle's One didn't go along with the plan. We also know from the final scene between the Oracle and Architect that the Oracle orchestrated this peace in some way.

20:26

All new red pills go see the Oracle. What's to say Trin didn't get her own code cookie?

20:26

Arranged for her love affair with Neo, pushed both towards another

20:27

Same with Smith turning virus. Had that not happened, Neo wouldn't have been able to negotiate a peace treaty with 01. What if Smith was planned as well?

If the whole thing comes down to the oracle giving someone a cookie what's the point of Neo?

He still has to walk the Path. Oracle doesn't see the final outcome, doesn't know if it'll work. It ultimately works because of him.

then what's the point of the cookie?

it gives him +5 Ballistic Damage Resistance

2

People get distracted by the cookie. It's irrelevant. If this whole thing comes down to anointing someone with a prop then choice gets eliminated. But we know choice is the entire basis to this whole thing. It only works because of choice. Without it we have massive rejection

20:34

Irrelevant so far as "The One" is concerned

Choice or rather illusion of choice, a certain wide of choice.

She knew he'd take it. Knew he'd eat it. The option to say no was an illusion. There was no choice. Just as when he'd stand or sit.

Temperance is right about it : he even ask himself about that in the movie.

Oracle makes choices as well. That scene in 2 with the orgasm cake isn't just an expose about causality, it drives home the fact food can contain programming and alter someone's state

And many times we have the "you already have done your choice"

Ok sure if you want to go the whole deterministic line. But you're ignoring all the other instances where choice isn't determined and up to the individual.

Embedded image

The Wachowski's aren't jsut brining it up in almost every scene when the Merv apparently wrapped that all up in the second film

I think too, CorruptedRSI : that scene was a way to show us the effect of coding in seemingly innocent things, that alter ourselves. Like the redpill, which a tracor code, but also something hijacking between the matrix and user.

Notice, every individual that argues choice is an illusion is operating under a system of control. IE they use control as a means of power. It's in their interest to not believe in choice

When they visited the Merv, the outcome was predetermined. The woman receiving the cake was predetermined. People dying, plot points being reached, all predetermined.

Where as Neo and the Oracle who offer Free Will and or Compatablism argue in favor of personal agency

Yet every one of Neo's actions are predetermined.

20:37

Otherwise he would have stayed dead

They're not though

Neo was supposed to take the redpill, supposed to train, supposed to speak with the Oracle, supposed to do all of it. He didn't have the choice.

The french version of the movies is even more fatalist about choices, but don't know if this is a intent They are, at least that's why many characters say to him he already have done his choices.

The decision was already made, his role was to find out why

He was the one, the chosen one. But actually even that was predetermined. But even his choice of saving Trinity, was determined by the love they eachother have, helped by the Oracle.

Trinity falling in love? Predetermined.

You're confusing foreknowledge as forgone conclusion. Just because someone knows something doesn't make it happen. The Oracle can have perfect insight into what someones reaction will be but that doesn't bridge the gap of causing it to happen

Agree on that : that's also what the Oracle say to her. To find out the reasons of his choices, to find about himself. But he already choose.

There's no confusing anything and I'd appreciate if you didn't assume how we're reading this

You're saying the Oracle telling Trinity she will fall in love is what causes her to fall in love (edited)

Humans are suggestible

That Neo will break the vase is what will cause Neo to break the vase. But that's not accurate. Trinity still has to generate those feelings. Neo still has to turn and look

If I tell a kid they're going to enjoy a movie, they're far more likely to enjoy it than if I tell them the movie is shit

But you telling them that isn't the cause

20:41

You haven't forced anything

She say to Trinity she will love the One. Reality or not, it happen... Because Trinity said to Neo, as he's dying, that the oracle told her so, and that she love him. (edited)

They still experience the movie and form their view

Because I'm not a code writing machine

20:42

If someone called the ORACLE tells you the future, you're likely to believe them from title alone

Neronn

She say to Trinity she will love the One. Reality or not, it happen... Because Trinity said to Neo, as he's dying, that the oracle told her so, and that she love him. (edited)

She doesn't love Neo because The Oracle said she would. She loves Neo because of who Neo is

Just like how humans are more likely to obey people in formal suits or labcoats

Lumivarjo Ethereal

Just like how humans are more likely to obey people in formal suits or labcoats

Likely is the key word there.

Neronn

She say to Trinity she will love the One. Reality or not, it happen... Because Trinity said to Neo, as he's dying, that the oracle told her so, and that she love him. (edited)

And the she kisses him and like magic he unlocks his powers. Coincidence?

Gami can we go one day without you nitpicking every little thing and pissing on everyone's parade with your own personal views which clearly don't align with everyone else?

Bro

Strangely enough, her love for Neo is a reaffirmation of the Oracle, right? She love Neo for who she is. But she was told she would love The One. That's also why she said she think she is The One. (edited)

Neronn

Strangely enough, her love for Neo is a reaffirmation of the Oracle, right? She love Neo for who she is. But she was told she would love The One. That's also why she said she think she is The One. (edited)

Probably ate a cookie too. Just sayin the whole thing is fishy (edited)

Neronn

Strangely enough, her love for Neo is a reaffirmation of the Oracle, right? She love Neo for who she is. But she was told she would love The One. That's also why she said she think she is The One. (edited)

Yes. But notice that it's still dependent on Trinity. Not dictated by The Oracle.

CorruptedRSI

And the she kisses him and like magic he unlocks his powers. Coincidence?

Yup, think about that too... Their relation is really pure, but the triggering of emotions was assumed as planned by the Oracle, if we do trust the Architect. Made me think a bit of a auto-realisation prophecy.

I mean she can see the outcome of every choice she understands. If she can see that, it's easy to nudge people in a way that works out for her.

1

You're more than likely to pass an interview if you go in with the (false) idea that you're guaranteed to have the job

I think she ate a cookie too, yup. She always make them, told the redpills what they needed to hear and be told. Dependent on Trinity and her belief that she is the one because of her love. Once he become the one.. It's scelled.

CorruptedRSI

I mean she can see the outcome of every choice she understands. If she can see that, it's easy to nudge people in a way that works out for her.

Correct. But the problem determinist have is squaring how that foreknowledge causes the conclusion.

Lumivarjo Ethereal

You're more than likely to pass an interview if you go in with the (false) idea that you're guaranteed to have the job

Yup, starting to believe.

The human brain is easily messed with, and things like prophecies? We eat that shit up whether we realize it or not

Something also to point out is that The Oracle is firmly in agreement that people do have choices. "You didn't come here to make the choice you already made it". She's not denying individual agency in fact she's confirming it.

A chosen one doesn't have that luxury

20:51

The choices made were still predetermined

20:51

He had to make those choices otherwise he wouldn't have been the chosen one

20:51

Therefore they weren't really choices

She's literally telling The One that he has choices!

No he has a choice

20:52

She just sees what he chose already

Thus, predetermined

So in a way its deyermined, but not absolute

He doens't have choice. She just sees what he chose.

20:52

Did you read that?

20:53

Determined by him. That's the point. That's the choice

Predetermination is a tricky philosophical subject. It does not said we act as a machine but that true liberty does not exist as every choice we make are predetermined by our psychology and others sociological factors, and as the human think the choices they have, they can make them, it's already predeterminade.

What? I said he has a choice, not that he doesn't

If humans had total freedom of choice, I wouldn't be sitting here eating a bowl of cold rice and some carrots for dinner

As much as when we think "wait, but I could just kill every guy here ! I have a choice"... But that thought alone is the product of our predetermination.

20:54

Predetermination is not about eating cold or hot rice, but the concept of destiny, liberty, prophecies...

20:54

(Bon appétit Temperance ! :))

(It's honestly not half bad, all things considered.)

The cookie is used to symbolize Neo's "spiritual" growth or how much he truly "knows himself" and his acceptance of what he's being told. In the first film he takes it because he's desperate for anything to help him sort out the trauma he's going through and he immediately starts to eat the cookie. Just like he immediately accepts what The Oracle is telling him. He hasn't figured out who he is. He doesn't know himself yet. The second film he accepts the candy like just like he's accepting the Oracle's advice and answers but he doesn't eat it representing while he is still going to her for guidance he's starting the take that guidance and use it on his own terms. She's telling him what to do but he's not sure if he's going to act using that info. This gets actualized when he rejects the intended purpose he's supposed to fulfill and goes back in to save Trinity. Finally in the third film he shows up early before the cookies are even ready. Because he's not there for any more spiritual aid and no longer operating on the Oracles time. He's thinking for himself finally and shows up when he wants to see her not when she wants to see him. He knows himself finally. That's why he's finally asking the important questions. Not questions about who he is or what he's supposed to do (He knows all that now and doesn't need the oracle to tell him that). Questions about the war, the cycle, what he can do, where its' all going. What she's even doing in all this. Finally questions that aren't about him or his purpose but instead how to end the war. Which then brings us to Smith. Those cookies are there purposefully. She's offering to Smith the same guidance she gave Neo. Smith just throws it away. (edited)

Very cool ^ never noticed that before

Love that

To paraphrase you: Where does it say that? Nowhere in the movie is that said.

Literally gave references to spots in the movies my conjecture is based on. But keep on with that. Maybe one day you’ll apply it to your own arguments

The problem here is that I don't argue, I discuss. You, however, introduce your own emotion towards the films into your debates.

I agree that this symbolism does not seem to be stated as such.

22:20

Even if interesting, it's as true as our own interpretations of it.

That’s fine. It’s built off looking at Neo’s characterization and actions following. Symbolism typically is shown over told. (edited)

Like how him carrying the corrupted code is implied and not explicitly said

Where is it implied? That’s always been my question. (edited)

Where is it implied that the cookie specifically represents spiritual growth

22:28

For all we know, the cookie is just the Oracle being polite

In Neo going to the Oracle for direction and her offering a cookie. In her telling him “when you finish eating that you’ll be right as rain”. When you finish processing what I told you you’ll feel better about all this. When Neo asks her “why are you here?” Same reason, I love candy” followed by “we are here to do what we are meant to do. Scenes with the Oracle and sweets are connected. She’s offering candy along side advice. How Neo reacts and uses the sweet is mirrored in how he applies what she tells him. That’s where it is implied (edited)

Okay, my grandmother says the same thing to me when I'm stressed and she gives me a cup of tea. She's a grandmotherly figure, of course she's going to be offering cookies.

22:35

She's taking on the grandmotherly role of the advice giver, while offering candies and such in much the same way

Yes that’s certainly a piece of her character.

22:38

But that’s why it’s also shown in three parts. First part Neo takes and eats the cookie. Neo takes the Oracles guidance on who he is as gospel. Second part Neo takes the candy but doesn’t eat it. Neo listens to her guidance but doesn’t completely accept it. Third part, Neo doesn’t take any cookies. He doesn’t need them because he isn’t there for guidance on who he is

The cookie could also easily be a way to ease him into the conversation. Strange old woman offering you advice is less uncomfortable when she gives you a cookie. Second time, maybe he just doesn't want one. Third time, he wasn't there for cookies he was there for answers. As for Smith, he has no time for cookies.

Is this literal? No it’s subtextual and you can disregard the parallel if you want to. But the parallel is there. Sure that’s also a read. I agree. But there remains a parallel with what Neo does with the candy and how Neo understands his role

Then you agree that just because something is not outright stated in the movies, that something can be interpreted subtextually.

I’ve never disagreed with that. I’ve only asked for what the subtext or interpretation is based on. If you want to argue Neo is an amalgamation of corrupted code from redpills being freed, ok go for it, but back it up. Explain your argument. Point me to where you’re looking and pulling from.

Many arguments and potential answers were given and you refused each and every one, demanding that we cite lines from the script to support it... Which is never done for your cookie theory.

If I missed it my bad. I would ask that you please restate the argument and evidence in support of it. All I remember from that argument was a very mixed mash back and forth of terms meaning one thing and then another followed by two links to a poorly sourced fan site.

Gami

In Neo going to the Oracle for direction and her offering a cookie. In her telling him “when you finish eating that you’ll be right as rain”. When you finish processing what I told you you’ll feel better about all this. When Neo asks her “why are you here?” Same reason, I love candy” followed by “we are here to do what we are meant to do. Scenes with the Oracle and sweets are connected. She’s offering candy along side advice. How Neo reacts and uses the sweet is mirrored in how he applies what she tells him. That’s where it is implied (edited)

Y'know... whenever I have a cookie I think about that scene... and I really do. XD

It’s a very powerful scene

(I really do, as in "feel right as rain.")

I wonder what powers the other ones manifested? Merv says "that's new" to neo when he stops bullets. Wonder what the others did

I always guessed something like sidestepping out of the way.

23:49

Maybe teleporting?

Says he has some skill

Thus Spoke Dominic

I wonder what powers the other ones manifested? Merv says "that's new" to neo when he stops bullets. Wonder what the others did

One levitated despite being told he could not walk again, and seemed to just "no care" his physical limitations.

Not that it’s new

From the Animatrix.

Which one was that in the Animatrix?

Gami

Says he has some skill

So he does.

Thus Spoke Dominic

Which one was that in the Animatrix?

We does not know, never stated nor spoken, we can only understand it trough the way he jack-out himself from the Matrix, with sheer speed, and is able, despite all the "you will never walk again, broken", levitate at the end, showing his grow in power.

0:33

He even outrun agents, but was not, at this moment, redpilled or what.

I didn't realise he the one of the previous "ones". Might need a rewatch

0:36

Just thought it was someone self substaniating

Well we can think it's a matter of interpretation. Sure, he is doing it himself... but the way he does, the way he start to see the Matrix, to act, and his powers, can show a future the One.

Aye. I'll give it a rewatch and see if I pick anything else up

Sure ! There is also the fact he destroyed the restraints himself.

0:55

(and that the objects levitate with him)

Gami

The cookie is used to symbolize Neo's "spiritual" growth or how much he truly "knows himself" and his acceptance of what he's being told. In the first film he takes it because he's desperate for anything to help him sort out the trauma he's going through and he immediately starts to eat the cookie. Just like he immediately accepts what The Oracle is telling him. He hasn't figured out who he is. He doesn't know himself yet. The second film he accepts the candy like just like he's accepting the Oracle's advice and answers but he doesn't eat it representing while he is still going to her for guidance he's starting the take that guidance and use it on his own terms. She's telling him what to do but he's not sure if he's going to act using that info. This gets actualized when he rejects the intended purpose he's supposed to fulfill and goes back in to save Trinity. Finally in the third film he shows up early before the cookies are even ready. Because he's not there for any more spiritual aid and no longer operating on the Oracles time. He's thinking for himself finally and shows up when he wants to see her not when she wants to see him. He knows himself finally. That's why he's finally asking the important questions. Not questions about who he is or what he's supposed to do (He knows all that now and doesn't need the oracle to tell him that). Questions about the war, the cycle, what he can do, where its' all going. What she's even doing in all this. Finally questions that aren't about him or his purpose but instead how to end the war. Which then brings us to Smith. Those cookies are there purposefully. She's offering to Smith the same guidance she gave Neo. Smith just throws it away. (edited)

Now that's a very interesting take, I like that. It goes into the metaphorical which I am not very good at, but very good observation.

I disagree that we're seeing a One there, though- just a different fluke.

Image attachment

Yes.

Thus Spoke Dominic

Aye. I'll give it a rewatch and see if I pick anything else up

When you do, can you see if there is a commentary on the short that goes deeper into it? I haven’t ever seen anything before about the runner being a One. I just assumed it was inspired by reading The Kid script and rewatching Chariots of Fire.

There’s a directors commentary on each of the shorts on the disk.

20:04

Shit it might even be online at this point

Gami

Shit it might even be online at this point

I’ll see what I can find but if you happen to come across it, could you please link it here?

Sure

20:09

https://youtu.be/yCVVSXV2okc

The Animatrix - Director Takeshi Koike

Ninten

When you do, can you see if there is a commentary on the short that goes deeper into it? I haven’t ever seen anything before about the runner being a One. I just assumed it was inspired by reading The Kid script and rewatching Chariots of Fire.

I have not yet watched the commentary. But the fixation on the number 4 on the runner animatrix short is really interesting.

Gami

Sure

Thank you!!!

hi im new to the series and was just wondering when they look at the screen with all the green code on it what exactly do they see?

7:12

do they just see the matrix as it is?

7:13

because in some scenes they refer to the code itself in others they act like they can see the events happening themselves

They're looking at just code. Experienced operators have learned to decipher it and can pick out details of whats happening but they are not watching things in the same way you watch something on TV. from the shooting script where Neo and Cypher talk. NEO: Do you always look at it encoded? CYPHER: Have to. The image translators sort of work for the construct programs but there's way too much information to decode the Matrix. You get used to it, though. Your brain does the translating. I don't even see the code. All I see is blonde, brunette, and redhead.

Yeah, because they have some level of information feed as well. "The image translators work for the simulation." That is, in a simpler program environment they can see what that stream looks like.

7:37

Thus, say, having seen Neo & Morpheus fight in the Construct, they have a chance to see whaft their code looks like with low noise.

7:37

And the human mind is incredibly capable of pattern recognition.

" Your brain does the translating" i guess they didnt record this line? cant remember it

SolivagantX

" Your brain does the translating" i guess they didnt record this line? cant remember it

No, it's in the movie.

That specific bit isn’t I meant, the “your brain does the translating”

https://youtu.be/MvEXkd3O2ow?t=8

matrix - neo and cypher talk

breathtaking

2

SolivagantX

" Your brain does the translating" i guess they didnt record this line? cant remember it

Correct

that'd be a cool line, maybe it left things not ambiguous enough

Line doesn’t add anything. Cypher saying he sees blondes etc establishes the same point so it’s just him repeating himself.

yeah on first glance, but you could infer it with Neo's sight at the end and go down a rabbit hole breathtaking

breathtaking

Somewhat related.

17:53

"All three stare transfixed with awe as the scrolling code accelerates, faster and faster, as if the machine language was unable to keep up or perhaps describe what is happening. They begin to blur into streaks, shimmering ribbons of light that open like windows, as-- Each screen fills with brilliant, saturated color images of Neo standing in the hall." That's from the shooting script. Art of the Matrix talks a bit about how they weren't really sure how they were going to show this when filming

ahh nice

18:10

that would have been great

@69.5 & @Vesuveus you guys were having an Oligarchy Oligarchs discussion in screenshots and I wanted to add, that while I'll be the first to agree and admit that we weren't officially told who they are, the idea that they were the machine sympathizers from the 2nd Renaissance always made the most sense to me. It doesn't directly explain why the machines feared them, but as far as things that were referenced in other Matrix media I feel like that group could have become the Oligarchs it was just 600 or so years later

yeah, personally I think you are right and they are the remnants of the people who supported the machines way back in 2nd Ren. Or it could be ancestors of the scientists and developers or owners of the company who created the AI to begin with. Root access, yo. But both of those are guesses. There is really nothing that gives us the answer either way. And assuming one over the other or coming up with a 3rd, 4th or 5th theory to use as fact is, for me, too close to fan fiction. And I don't want to participate in that.

breathtaking

1

Great minds. I feel like the only other option is the creators or descendants of those who wrote the original code of A.I. that became self aware. The ONLY reason why I didn't mention it is because there's no matrix universe reference to them

It’s Illuminati members

beta

1

It's manifestation of Metalogic's worst nightmares.

Me?

me me me… me too

Me three.

There is something I wondered. How do technological and medical progression would be simulated in the Matrix, for giving it realism (there surely is scientists and searcher here), as it is stuck in the 90' by definition ?

10:30

Would it be a false progression ? More elaborate machines but still in this fashion ? What do you think about it ?

It depends on how short the cycle is between resets

11:20

Alternatively, anyone who becomes a scientist "moves out of town" and becomes people sludge

But even 10 years would be pretty difficult I think... And wouldn't deleting scientists something who would be difficult ? Well, we can also wonder if the simulation is only this town, or all the world (would think all the world)

Hey @Neronn I always thought that since each version of the Matrix is about 100 years, that each one that ends in the 1990s starts around 1900, then progresses. I seem to be in the minority on this, though. Different versions could progress at different rates of time, too. We know that calendar years pass in the Matrix, since Thomas' birthday in the 1960s is seen in the Interrogation scene. But the question is, of course, what were the 1960s like for Thomas? Did he have a VCR and home computer in 1965, instead of the early 1980s? the red pills know only the Matrix as reality, so they could easily be "taught" a false progression model of history and scientific evolution, as you mentioned. Progress might just go really, really slowly. the people who would drive change, scientists, etc, being eliminated by agents or having their memories zapped. People with questioning minds, like Trinity doing her IRS hacking, would be easier for the agents to spot in a society that doesn't encourage free thinking and innovation. As for other locations, we know London exists, as Thomas is reading about Morpheus being spotted there on his computer. I think that quite a few of the places in the real world exist in the Matrix, but they're much smaller and mostly filled with NPCs, not actual red pills. Mostly, I think of it like a video game in which there's a main neighborhood your character lives in...and then several other, much smaller, places your character can visit. The machines would only expend the amount of processing power necessary to keep the redpills from doubting their reality. That's my take, anyway. The revelation of progress moving at a different pace would be really hard for newly awakened redpills to comprehend, in my opinion. No wonder they can't usually wake up people over 20!

astro_icecream🍦

Hey @Neronn I always thought that since each version of the Matrix is about 100 years, that each one that ends in the 1990s starts around 1900, then progresses. I seem to be in the minority on this, though. Different versions could progress at different rates of time, too. We know that calendar years pass in the Matrix, since Thomas' birthday in the 1960s is seen in the Interrogation scene. But the question is, of course, what were the 1960s like for Thomas? Did he have a VCR and home computer in 1965, instead of the early 1980s? the red pills know only the Matrix as reality, so they could easily be "taught" a false progression model of history and scientific evolution, as you mentioned. Progress might just go really, really slowly. the people who would drive change, scientists, etc, being eliminated by agents or having their memories zapped. People with questioning minds, like Trinity doing her IRS hacking, would be easier for the agents to spot in a society that doesn't encourage free thinking and innovation. As for other locations, we know London exists, as Thomas is reading about Morpheus being spotted there on his computer. I think that quite a few of the places in the real world exist in the Matrix, but they're much smaller and mostly filled with NPCs, not actual red pills. Mostly, I think of it like a video game in which there's a main neighborhood your character lives in...and then several other, much smaller, places your character can visit. The machines would only expend the amount of processing power necessary to keep the redpills from doubting their reality. That's my take, anyway. The revelation of progress moving at a different pace would be really hard for newly awakened redpills to comprehend, in my opinion. No wonder they can't usually wake up people over 20!

Hey, thanks you really much ! That's really plausible, I doubt we would have 6 billions bluepills in reality.. And we have seen machines NPC as "common folks". The passage of time, I remember, and that something that bothered my mind.. It's obvious the 1960 or 1900 are nothing alike the 90. More over we know the machine want a 90's world in the Matrix, because it's the pinnacle for them, that humans would like. Im inclined to trust the false progression of history, like the stagnation of scientific researches, which keep a high tech level (for the 90) but is still on a so slow progress, we never really discover them. After all, the machines themselves have little progressed in technology in many 100 years, so for the humans... And I also agree about that. We really feel lost when we have a bit too fast technology progression, or move into a city which much more technology. Slow-pace is a way more comfortable way to live, more ever if the technology presented have no "default" (like a fantasist view of the retro technology... phones who seem to have a perfect signal when talking to)

So the Matrix comic Goliath shows the machines manipulation of time to be pretty much at will... so they could have a 1 year loop, 10 year loop, 100 year loop... and I don't even like to use the word loop in the context of this conversation because the loop is with regard to the cycling of the one. When you are speaking about the experience inside the Matrix it could go from 1990 to 1979 to 2091 to 1952 all in the course of a few hours

or seconds.

1

Totally right @Neomatrixology, and Goliath is in London, too! I always think of the time manipulation in that one as just for the main character (not sure why...I think that was just my interpretation the first time I read it, and I have only reread it once). But it totally makes sense that the time manipulation could be used, back and forth, for everyone in the whole matrix, or just in London, if the machines want to expend that amount of energy to make it happen. Thank you for pointing that out. My brain just never took the thought there. It's great to get to discuss the Lore. @Neronn go up and read the important stuff @Neomatrixology added about time in the matrix (edited)

I have read, and thanks you very much ! So it seem they can induce lifelong false memories, is that right (seem right, as Cipher wanted a new life without remembering anything but being a great star) ? And play with the time at need to better stick to the pinnacle. (edited)

Goliath also says aliens exist so….. sure

Well, they probably exist in our real world reality

So we know who wrote the Oracle program?

Tbh I figured she was another anomaly, or at least a system that reached sapience on its own

Vesuveus

So we know who wrote the Oracle program?

The Oracle Oracle? Dunno, she must've been used in one of the first two Matrix. The way the Architect talks about her she was there before she came up with the new version, just had another purpose. So I'm guessing 01 wrote her, like they did the Architect, Merv, etc.

I assumed that who or whatever made the Architect also made the Oracle. I agree with @CorruptedRSI that she was present in the first 2 versions of the Matrix (I don't think the Architect would call her the mother of the Matrix and himself the Father if she were a significantly newer program) doing some sort of standard Greek Oracle prognostication (maybe happy palm reading type things in the first version, and evil stuff in the second), but she couldn't become a real expert on human future actions until the third version, when humans actually got the power of choice.

We met another highly creative program from the Machine city…

Rama and wife?

When we say 01 wrote the programs... That doesn't quite sit correctly with me.

A program from 01

Fair.

I think of it more as O1 wrote something, and then it evolved

I get it, it’s overly broad because we don’t know which ai create new better AI

01 has such an organic shape to it...lots of evolutionary imagery there

Yeah, AGI existed before ASI.

Oracle was probably a program used in early development of the Matrix. Primarily focused at how to navigate human processing of it. That’s my guess at least. She was an “intuitive program” created to “investigate” the human psyche. The script for reloaded actually says “analyze” the human psyche but that was changed in filming so her role wasn’t just analytical but research and probing based. The other clue there is “intuitive” indicating she focused more on the “gut feeing” humans have over certain things. Who exactly wrote her? No idea and we can’t figure that out with so little information. But what she’s focused on would be instrumental in shaping a fictional cognitive world

Didn't the art director use a crystal growing projection software and let it run to come up with the shape of M1 on its own? That might have been in another film, can't exactly remember

Man pulled off AGI, then shunted it off without limitation whereby it upgraded to ASI.

01 not M1 sorry

I don’t think it’s conclusive that she predates earlier matrix though. Her being called the “mother” is in reference to the system of choice she comes up with which the Matrix doesn’t function without. She could only be as old as the Matrix we see and not present in Matrix 1.0 or 2.0

2:40

That said she may have been there because again what she was programmed for is rather important even if you’re creating paradise. But she also could have been made in response to massive rejection and understanding why

True, and - it we take a traditional lense - the mother tends to be younger & more nubile in comparison to the father.

Kamala was a highly creative interactive software programmer

Yeah, and Kamala only gets to say like 3 words. Not quite fair.

However, in a constructed reality- such matters are trivial (but used to work with the psyche of humans).

And her line are not creative at all, but very direct. She behaves most like a machine

Tying Kamala to the Oracle requires another fundamental question answered. Do programs age in The Matrix? (edited)

2:43

Can we track the appearance of a program to how long they have existed?

I think only oracle

2:43

My take on that is that they appear how they want

That’s always been my read as well

Sati could be 8 years old in Revolutions, or 2 weeks or 100 years

Sati appearing 8-10 is a design choice. Doubt she’s been hiding for 8+ years before making it to the matrix

2:45

So who knows. Kamala could have designed The Oracle.

‍♂️

2:46

“What are you doing? You shouldn’t be here!” ~ The woman that saved the world unknowingly (edited)

I always thought Sati sprung into being looking like she does in the film. I dont think she was a "baby" program, since she was probably hidden. Who knows how long she was hidden,mor in existence prior to Revs. Lots of interesting questions surrounding that, though. Did Rama and Kamala write her with an ability to age? Is there a teenager Sati patch, lol.

Like teenage groot

Exactly. Or those creepy toys that evolve

Toys?

Vesuveus

My take on that is that they appear how they want

I think it depends, though... because - considering the lore only- the Oracle's previous shell (that we saw in M1) got shredded by the Merv somehow.

Yeah, there's some kind of toy that grows and changes. Let me see if I can find the name

Why do I feel like I'mma need more wine for this.

Laucivol

I think it depends, though... because - considering the lore only- the Oracle's previous shell (that we saw in M1) got shredded by the Merv somehow.

And when that happened she wrote another shell. She chose her appearance

https://youtu.be/OhkIGpBZBGk

TTPM Toy Reviews

First Look at Rizmo Toy from TOMY

3:02

That's no the one Im thinking of, but it was like this

3:02

It grew up in stagea

3:02

Oops. Trouble typing sorry

3:03

Yeah, weird thing about Oracle getting her new shell is that some of her memories were lost with the old shell.

Vesuveus

And when that happened she wrote another shell. She chose her appearance

Yeah, I kinda get that - as in the situation it's a necessity. However, could Sati?

3:04

And, the Merv took that pistol to the face as a pretty serious threat.

I thought shell was basically just RSI, but acc to the Oracle, it's more than that. I think that was in ETM cutscenes. Don't recall exactly as I don't watch Revs often

She tells Ghost Rama sold the Merv her termination code

Yes, you're right, that is who she is talking to. I recall that now

But that conversation has some pretty big asterisk next to it given that Revolutions says it was Niobe that met with her

I think that's just because you c I uld play the game as either

3:06

I always played as Ghost

EtM is weird and I try not to think about canon when it comes to it and how all those options work

They both met with her

Same, driving was ass

3:08

Ok sure but like we then have scenes where each of them leaves. And Smith has this whole thing. And then are the cutscenes canon but gameplay isn’t.

3:08

Whatever doesn’t matter. She at least hints to the same issue with Niobe

Gami

Ok sure but like we then have scenes where each of them leaves. And Smith has this whole thing. And then are the cutscenes canon but gameplay isn’t.

Like murdering that one Agent by throwing him off the rooftop?

To me, if they filmed something live action for ETM, the general concepts are all canon. I don't remember enough of the game play except being stuck on the road forever

I remember replaying that part like a million times until I mastered it.

Like the front half of EtM has both paths with very unique circumstances where you can easily sorta navigate them in and out with who’s doing what when. But after the power plant that becomes a lot harder

I mean the Agent on the roof after the post office.

3:10

Yeah, the power plant got... insane. I understand why it was glossed through in the movie, honestly.

3:11

Plus, having it that way overlayed with Morpheus' monolog was a stroke of genius if you ask me...

That scene is dope. Chills every time

Yes, the editing of that scene I wonderful.

Rewatched it last week. Love it

As in, the details for the plot didn't matter - just how the hell did Trinity get to that spot.

3:12

Now for EtM, the details for the event does matter.

3:12

Which is the sorta unfleshed bits that allow for expansive lore.

In the power plant scene in the film, I always Wonder about the operator on, I think it's sorens ship, who has a metal leg brace. They make a point to show it, but they never explain it, do they?

3:16

It adds interesting texture to the scene, and it makes you notice the welding on the catwalk he's on is about to collapse, but that's kinda all?

Yeah, I don't think we hear his story.

3:20

Lotsa folks line that, too.

3:20

Hells, what do we even know about Soren?

Soren is bald. That's all I know about Soren, lol

Laucivol

Hells, what do we even know about Soren?

We know Soren has a mean jump shot: https://youtu.be/BShAiWV8hNk

Matrix Trilogy: Hovercraft Crews Featuring Captain Soren

matrixredpill

1

Is it Axel? And he injured himself in the airport mission for EtM?

I forgot you talked to Soren! I remember the Ballard one.

Neomatrixology

We know Soren has a mean jump shot: https://youtu.be/BShAiWV8hNk

Aye, my point was that we still know scant details... We don't even know much about Trin before the red pill or anyone else save Neo..

My memory is foggy. Been with out power for over two days in the south lol

I know how it is to be without power. We had no power 8 days in Feb, sporadic water only. Was terrible

It’s a thing lol. Rumor is we should be getting power tomorrow morning so fingers crossed

Laucivol

Aye, my point was that we still know scant details... We don't even know much about Trin before the red pill or anyone else save Neo..

I don't mind not knowing.

3:33

I don't think we'll get anything on that in M4 either. I'm fine with the mystery

Anyway, I think the scene with the trainman in EtM starts with Ghost and Niobe carrying Axel to a hardline and hes limping. Which would explain the brace on the guy in the movie

Oh, u mean like it was a recent injury? Didn't consider that.

Can’t say for sure. The exact damage inflicted on people in the real from injuries sustained in the matrix is really iffy

Yeah, there's some contradiction on that in the comics

And I’m not sure how a brain created leg injury would translate into needing a brace

3:37

Or why the lungs would have blood in them after getting punched in the imaginary chest repeatedly…

I thought he was a Zion born person who had a disability. That was my take, since he seems to be an operator

He could be. Would have to check the credit rolls

astro_icecream🍦

I don't mind not knowing.

It's not that I mind not knowing- it's just unexplored areas that could be developed is all I'm saying.

Yep, I get you!

Gami

Can’t say for sure. The exact damage inflicted on people in the real from injuries sustained in the matrix is really iffy

I thought the fella running was the Operator - no plugs.

He could be. But Soren has another redpill on his crew named Axel.

3:40

Not sure if we get good looks at his arms or neck in reloaded

Gotta go prep for work tomorrow. Cya!

Have a good night

U 2. Hope ur power comes back!

astro_icecream🍦

Gotta go prep for work tomorrow. Cya!

Ta.

Gami

Not sure if we get good looks at his arms or neck in reloaded

I'll admit, I'm kinda assuming- mostly because the Operatives of the crew were all in for this batshit plan.

Gami

And I’m not sure how a brain created leg injury would translate into needing a brace

The body is restrained when someone is jacked into the Matrix. When someone suffers physical trauma in the simulation they have a physical response. My guess is the leg injury came from him wrenching his leg violently when injured. As for characters spitting up blood, for some reason mouth guards aren’t used so I can’t imagine how many people have injured their tongues and inner mouth and the spitting blood is the body trying not to drown as it drains backwards. By no means is that explanation perfect but this has bothered me since seeing the Matrix in theaters back in 99 lol.

Gami

It’s a thing lol. Rumor is we should be getting power tomorrow morning so fingers crossed

Good luck, hope the power comes back soon As a refugee who fled the south I know how miserable the summers are with no A/C

The leg makes sense given they have restraints on their feet. Could jerk and damage the foot. Bit wild given they all wear boots but it functions so let’s roll with it. And thanks

outage map has my parents getting power tomorrow for sure so that’s enough of a blessing for me

Gami

The leg makes sense given they have restraints on their feet. Could jerk and damage the foot. Bit wild given they all wear boots but it functions so let’s roll with it. And thanks

outage map has my parents getting power tomorrow for sure so that’s enough of a blessing for me

Lol. I imagine if they weren’t fighting a literal life or death war they would attempt to find ways to try and cushion some of the trauma. I know the Emergency Jackout Procedure was pulled out of thin air to try and make the MMO aspect work, the EJP made me think of Shadowrun and how deckers have software to reduce the biofeedback from getting dumped from a server or Antiviral software trying to fry their brain.

Ninten

Lol. I imagine if they weren’t fighting a literal life or death war they would attempt to find ways to try and cushion some of the trauma. I know the Emergency Jackout Procedure was pulled out of thin air to try and make the MMO aspect work, the EJP made me think of Shadowrun and how deckers have software to reduce the biofeedback from getting dumped from a server or Antiviral software trying to fry their brain.

Thing is.. one would try and cushion that damage - Operatives aren't cheap.

Gami

The leg makes sense given they have restraints on their feet. Could jerk and damage the foot. Bit wild given they all wear boots but it functions so let’s roll with it. And thanks

outage map has my parents getting power tomorrow for sure so that’s enough of a blessing for me

Glad to hear your parents will get power back soon. I know that can be a stressful wait.

EJP was actually fairly well integrated IMHO.

Laucivol

Thing is.. one would try and cushion that damage - Operatives aren't cheap.

>_> Something, something, ignore the man behind the curtain?

Magic

Ninten

>_> Something, something, ignore the man behind the curtain?

moves a lever What?

EJP made it sound like the actual death from damage inside the Matrix was caused by shock. Which I really liked

Something I noticed on a recent rewatch of the Matrix is how Neo goes into a cardiac arrest after taking the red pill. I guess if anything that does make it seem like shock is a major cause of death in the Matrix.

Gami

EJP made it sound like the actual death from damage inside the Matrix was caused by shock. Which I really liked

That was what I figured- basically the feedback from the event shatters the fragile electrochemical elements of the brain.

Like how we can die IRL of shock "too much pain" so ?

Yes, you can literally die from too much pain. I assume the types of shock we are talking about are Neurogenic and Cardiogenic shock. In this case it seems that with enough feedback going directly into the brain it interferes with the delicate electrochemistry of the brain. Depending on how bad it is it can fry the brain or induce cardiac arrest.

15:18

I also don’t have any medical training beyond first aid so I may be screwing thus all up. Patching in MXO is much easier. Load the software, heal your buddy, get shot in the face by an exile or my face bitten off by a Blooddrunk. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Ninten

Something I noticed on a recent rewatch of the Matrix is how Neo goes into a cardiac arrest after taking the red pill. I guess if anything that does make it seem like shock is a major cause of death in the Matrix.

I think an early draft detailed that the red pill fakes a death so the pod inhabitant gets flushed. Can’t check right now but will come back to

Gami

I think an early draft detailed that the red pill fakes a death so the pod inhabitant gets flushed. Can’t check right now but will come back to

That makes sense. When Neo takes the pill it looks like it’s cardiac arrest. Presumably the automated system would take it as a death and flush the body to be recycled to become Soylent Green. Or maybe just Taystee Wheat.

The human body can die of shock from a relatively minor gunshot wound to an extremity. Humans are fucking weird.

nature is glitchy https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e3/b9/5d/e3b95d8ad416dccf112fb8561d16f339.gif

Embedded image

KRONO

nature is glitchy https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e3/b9/5d/e3b95d8ad416dccf112fb8561d16f339.gif

Nah, those are just fainting goats.

23:10

The myotonic goat or Tennessee fainting goat

I wonder who wrote the goats... seems like the programmer didn't end it.

Come on, it's just beta. Can't you just wait for the final release?

1

Could have at least implemented ragdoll physics

Probably planned for the next update.

Something triggers them to back to T-pose

23:36

I don't expect a patch from the devs, tbh.

Interesting discussion on pain/death in the Matrix. It's also interesting to think about how the EJP made 'respawning' canon, yet many characters in game fear death. My headcanon was that the EJP would save you but you'd probably be pretty traumatised and not be able to just jack in straight away like we did ingame!

Well, and self-preservation/avoiding death is kinda hardbaked into being a living organism.

FrozenFire

Interesting discussion on pain/death in the Matrix. It's also interesting to think about how the EJP made 'respawning' canon, yet many characters in game fear death. My headcanon was that the EJP would save you but you'd probably be pretty traumatised and not be able to just jack in straight away like we did ingame!

There were automatic debuffs from dying. If it wasn’t a mmorpg I am sure there could have been more interesting ways to explore the EJP and how traumatic death would be. The typical operative would die a horrifying death by anyone’s metric. The Nightmares alone.

3:54

Literal Nightmare I mean.

Ninten

Literal Nightmare I mean.

Yeah, exactly!

Well, considering some of those deaths were kin to cooking from the inside... yeah, I suppose so.

Does anyone have a accurate way to follow the matrix lore in a order?

what do you mean, like a timeline?

Well I've only watched the first film, I've never seen 2 or 3, but I was reading that there's comics, games, and shorts that coincide with the movies. (edited)

18:38

Like how big is the lore to the matrix?

watch the other 2 movies, thats most of the lore

theres also animatrix, featuring many different short animated movies that are all over the timeline

I was reading that the matrix online is apparently lore heavy

It had its own lore, but unless you see the other 2 movies, youd miss out on the main canon

and the story of the game "enter the matrix" starts shortly before "reloaded" and then ties in with the main story of reloaded/revolutions

So what about the neo matrix game?

id say thats not canon, more like the Ws having fun with the established lore

18:43

too much weird shit going on there

ANTS

Path of Neo ... almost certainly isn't canon.

18:44

Then again... the Matrix is a simulation.

of reality tho

So the established canon is right now The three films Animatrix Matrix online Basically? (edited)

and Enter The Matrix

although well just have to see how much of mxo lore will actually end up in the 4th movie

And there are the comics, too.

Ignore matrix online

18:45

It’s not canon

EtM just fills in some events on the timeline

18:46

Start with the movies

Gami

It’s not canon

It is canon, I just looked into it. The reason Laurence Fishburne isn't in 4 is because of morpheus dying in matrix online. (edited)

DJ Misdemeanor

It is canon, I just looked into it. The reason Laurence Fishburne isn't in 4 is because of morpheus dying in matrix online. (edited)

It’s not

Erm... what? Neo didn't... You mean Morpheus, right? And, damnit. Because that's something I wanted scrubbed. >.> Not the event, persay, but Morpheus dying.

18:47

Why couldn't they have murdered Niobe, instead!?

Laucivol

Erm... what? Neo didn't... You mean Morpheus, right? And, damnit. Because that's something I wanted scrubbed. >.> Not the event, persay, but Morpheus dying.

Sorry I meant morpheus lmao

DJ Misdemeanor

It is canon, I just looked into it. The reason Laurence Fishburne isn't in 4 is because of morpheus dying in matrix online. (edited)

this is speculation from online blogs. Unless the new movie reveals it to be fact

am I canon?

18:48

if you canon in the matrix do you canon in the real world

If you canon real world, do you canon reality

If MxO is canon I expect a check for EPN. We had that faction name before the kid stepped out on the streets to watch cryptos’ magician act

LOLFACEMATRIX

(It was written by Chadwick before the game was launched)

18:50

The Kid is announced in M4 ... on IMDB...

Man this lore is confusing lmao

(In lore I came up with the name) :p

so huge grain of salt

Phrack forgot the E

DJ Misdemeanor

Man this lore is confusing lmao

Until youve seen the movies

Guess I gotta watch 2 and 3.

yup

Gami

If MxO is canon I expect a check for EPN. We had that faction name before the kid stepped out on the streets to watch cryptos’ magician act

I still mispronounce the acronym in my head as E-Peen.

the best way to watch is :

The Matrix
The Animatrix
Reloaded
Revolutions
Watching the Enter The Matrix stuff if you really want to see everything canon

18:53

then you can try to understand The Matrix Online if you want

Laucivol

I still mispronounce the acronym in my head as E-Peen.

I think we all do lol

LOLFACEMATRIX

3

Now I have something to do. Is the online stuff on a private server?

DJ Misdemeanor

Does anyone have a accurate way to follow the matrix lore in a order?

This has a high level overview in what is assumed to be the right order https://www.mxoarchive.net/timeline.html

20:31

at least, partway thru MxO, since it says Last updated 10-11-07 and the game ended in 09 (edited)

should just read the memory book

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-OgyjAPGjQyZPYL2Ut8WxL3e69vhppcq

three_thumbs_up

2

the first of those are just blog post headline images

check again grumpy old man

you have this in there yes https://archive.org/details/MatrixOnlineMxOOfficialMemorybookStorybookRedPill/2-MxO-Storyline

Matrix Online MxO Official Memorybook/Storybook Red Pill Version : ...

The Matrix Online MMORPG shut down in the Summer of 2009, temporarily leaving it's players with an online viewable PDF scrapbook that was a compilation which...

cool

yeah anyone looking for the MxO story lore should check that

Wow, a lot of stuff happens in that timeline

22:07

Is there another Lock in MxO? I thought our commander lock got ded in Revolutions.

No, same Lock. He didn't die in Rev.

I'll get refreshed when I see Revolutions this weekend then

22:11

Been rewatching them w my partner who's never seen them, and she's in love w it

breathtaking

2

Absolutely wholesome, glad to hear that.

Beleos

Is there another Lock in MxO? I thought our commander lock got ded in Revolutions.

you may be thinking of https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Mifune

Mifune | Matrix Wiki | Fandom

Withered

1

I may just be :0

Where do you see/read the story of the Geoffrey fellow and the wheat? Was it in a comic, cos I those I missed out on

It’s a comic.

Replika is a bit of matrix canon? As in the source is like a repaired chat ai that serves man kind ? The (edited)

0:43

Is that possible ? (edited)

0:43

And qaf as in queer as folk?

Ha on a le droit de parler dans nos langues natales maintenant ?

Ouranos

Ha on a le droit de parler dans nos langues natales maintenant ?

Flemish, Dutch, English, a bit of Arabic , french and french boyfriend learning me french . So yes and oui?

Ouranos

Ha on a le droit de parler dans nos langues natales maintenant ?

On s'fait un ptit chat room de frenchies, les mecs?

5:03

On clavarde, quoi, c'est tranquille

Tá seacláid an-bhlasta. Táim an tuirseach.

Is that gaelic?

Irish, Gaelic is Scots

Always thought Gaelic was Irish as well, maybe different dialect. Didn't know it was only scots!

It's one of those "similar enough to be mutually intelligible, but different enough to be their own thing" situations

Oh I see. So they share an ancestor but changed enough over time to be separate languages officially.

Gaeilge (Irish) as opposed to Gàidhlig (Scottish) :P

I wouldn't even know where to start to pronounce those haha

Muahahaha

5:10

It's hard to explain too, which makes it worse. I'd love to be able to teach how it's all pronounced but we've some fucking weird vocalisation

Mac Fhlannchaidh

5:11

Yeah that.

Yep, unless you have a sister, then it's Ní Fhlannchaidh

I do have a sister, what changes in the name then?

5:12

More like, why does it change?

It's basically just a gender marker in surnames. Son of and Daughter of

Oh yeah ok, just checked. Not having a sister that changes the name, but being a woman.

That'd be it

We learn so much in #matrix-lore

More than we ever intend to

5:18

Eh may as well throw my own in here to make it even before I go to bed. Ó Dubhghaill, anglicized to Doyle - and I'm about as Irish as it gets what with being a Dubliner.

So Mac is "son of". What is Ó ?

General "descendant of"

5:23

Which is annoying when you realize that women still get the Ní

5:24

A good guide to go by is Ó is usually Irish, while Mac is usually Scottish or Irish with Scottish roots.

5:24

And then there's Fitz...

5:25

That'd be the Anglo-Norman version of them

5:26

Some Irish names were Anglicized using the Fitz patronymic though, just to make it more confusing.

Neat

Anybody know a decent video that does a full breakdown of the Matrix story, including Animatrix and MxO?

21:57

My excited rambling about it has gotten my friends interested but they want to watch/listen to something that is presented by someone who isn't hyper ventilating out of sheer hype

CoolCry

1

I think @Vesuveus or @Neomatrixology have compiled videos explaining the extended lore

I defer to Lazarus. I’m sure there are a bunch on YT, just nothing I can point to specifically.

I don't think there is one, not that I can find anyway

23:24

Lazarus made a video about the MxO story but it's more about debunking an article than a chronological timeline

23:25

or there is that and it's bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVLyza_wM8c

The Complete Matrix Timeline Explained

Zippy the Squirrel

Anybody know a decent video that does a full breakdown of the Matrix story, including Animatrix and MxO?

That's kind of a loaded question. Are you looking for an overall events time line: https://youtu.be/uaqvGg9_Yao

Matrix Trilogy Timeline F!NALLY Explained

23:35

For Mxo I defer to the podcast with stars starschwar & vesuveus which I know is in the description of this video that Ouranos referenced: https://youtu.be/jbJ5Gzh8TsA (edited)

Matrix Online Story Explained [Canon Lore Between Revolutions & The...

23:36

For Animatrix breakdowns I recommend this playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkfb8OsyZBmcO_Grv22RnwkGg0eFrzT9r

23:37

& I'm still working on the comics but it feels like people don't watch those videos: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkfb8OsyZBmdNkFhZ3oN7YFVgz1ohAFMN

Neomatrixology

& I'm still working on the comics but it feels like people don't watch those videos: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkfb8OsyZBmdNkFhZ3oN7YFVgz1ohAFMN

they probably will now that the movie is getting closer

@Neomatrixology I think I'll just shoot them an invite to this discord and have them pick through everything listed here on their own. Thanks!

Zippy the Squirrel

@Neomatrixology I think I'll just shoot them an invite to this discord and have them pick through everything listed here on their own. Thanks!

Mmm, tasty lore oats

Neomatrixology

& I'm still working on the comics but it feels like people don't watch those videos: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkfb8OsyZBmdNkFhZ3oN7YFVgz1ohAFMN

I've been meaning to! XD

0:01

Actually, I probably came upon some of your stuff before in the intervening years on an aside.

Neomatrixology

& I'm still working on the comics but it feels like people don't watch those videos: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkfb8OsyZBmdNkFhZ3oN7YFVgz1ohAFMN

I dig the videos on the comics! They're my favorite part of the extended lore. I was actually thinking of writing up a little something about the literary allusions in the comics and films for my students. Will send your way when I'm finished if you'd be interested in reading it. (edited)

Thanks for watching them I'm at least into volume 2. I'm thinking I might skip to one of the Chadwick ones next not sure.. Yea just give me a heads up when you are ready

Neomatrixology

Thanks for watching them I'm at least into volume 2. I'm thinking I might skip to one of the Chadwick ones next not sure.. Yea just give me a heads up when you are ready

The shitty part is that they are sold out and jacked up in price everywhere since the trailer dropped. I just want the 20th anniversary comic.

Is there a list of weird abilities normal Redpills had within the matrix? Like we’ve got the potentials in the first movie that could do telekinesis.

The only other thing I think we saw in the movies from the Neb's crew is hyperjump....

15:26

not sure if downloading programs (like helicopter pilot) is considered a skill/ability (edited)

In Final Flight of the Osiris Jue does some aerial stuff, too, but I think that falls in the same category of jumping high, running up walls, temporary manipulation of gravity, etc. Trinity and Morpheus seem to be able to walk on the ceiling in the Club Hel coat check room really easily (side note: it always seems like that scene is lacking something. The effects are solid, but it's just not very exciting. Maybe it has to do with the music or editing. Don't know if others feel that way). (edited)

I thought it was the residents of Club Hel (older programs) that were on the ceiling?

15:49

Vampires and werewolves and stuff

I'm pretty sure Morpheus and Trinity flip upside down, too. I don't watch that film, too often. Wasn't paying too much attention to Seraph in that scene, though he would be classified with thr other exiles (edited)

I see it every time I watch the Matrix because I can't watch just one XD

https://youtu.be/Gzl0dYq5-SY

Fight in Club Hel | The Matrix Revolutions (IMAX)

15:59

It's only the Exiles that go up to the ceiling

16:00

Trinity does some wall running, cart wheeling and that float & kick thing that she does.

Ah, OK.

Metalogic

Trinity does some wall running, cart wheeling and that float & kick thing that she does.

And her impractical but cool looking scorpion kick

That's what it's called

Iconic as fuck

nah, the floating kick is the bullet time camera swoop that's shown in the beginning when she fights the cops

I'm bad with names

scorpion kick is over the top like a scorpion tail

While badass, I dont think those marital arts moves qualify as unique red pill abilities though - wall running does tho

I'm writing up a homebrew for the Chronicles of Darkness RPG for how Redpills work. One aspect I was going to run with was that every Redpill has access to certain Focus abilities that expend a Focus resource to use (i.e. Wall Running, Hyper-Jump, Hyper-Speed, etc...) and Reality breaking abilities that actually break the Matrix, but can be easily traced by Agents (i.e. Telekinesis, Phasing through solid objects, Code Vision, etc...)

Corbin

Is there a list of weird abilities normal Redpills had within the matrix? Like we’ve got the potentials in the first movie that could do telekinesis.

A good place to run with, as well, is what we see in EtM. But like I said before, that MxO skill tree would be a most excellent skeleton to run with. Dice-wise, I would allow adding dice to the pool, negating botches & so on.

CofD is a great system for Matrix. They actually put out a game called Demon the Descent where you play as fallen angels that are biomechanical. A lot of their abilities are about hacking reality.

21:00

And of course you get access to Vampire and Werewolf characters

Red pills, though, are kin to Mage if you ask me.

Mages are "The One" in power level

(But I'm an oWoD aficionado.)

Corbin

Mages are "The One" in power level

Only after a certain threshold.

Similar in nWoD/CofD. I had a mage with gnosis 3 wreck my game.

And are constrained similarly to Mage by the reality itself.

21:01

Agents appear as a result of Paradox.

Corbin

Similar in nWoD/CofD. I had a mage with gnosis 3 wreck my game.

Remember, when you play in such things - the powers-that-be take notice and will crush you.

In DtD when Demons use their potent abilities Angels get summoned.

Demons are more like... Exiles.

Or if its a minor power they summon Stigmatics (Humans that the Angels have imbued with power).

21:02

Yeah

21:03

They even have RSI's in the form of Cover.

21:03

If they got noticed by an Angel in their cover they'd switch to a new one.

Ayup, ergo the comparison there - the reason why I say Mage is a closer equivalent to Red Pills is that the two are literally focused around breaking reality itself. And most.. don't get even to Morpheus' level.

21:06

Our take on Mage is that crazy powers are the norm, but that's because PCs are the focus and stars of the show - and although there are teams that are that good, by and large.. not so much.

21:07

But who wants to play an everyman+, when they could be an ubermensch.

Point being, that take Bane of the Caduceus, and his non-existent resistance to Smith. Morpheus had it in him to fight.

It would seem too that once Smith started assimilating with this ability, just one hit was sufficient and no one, except Neo, could resist it.

Because they were the opposing parts of the equation

Morpheus did, long enough for Neo to save him.

Didn't the length of assimilation was similar for everyone if not saved ?

Laucivol

Morpheus did, long enough for Neo to save him.

(This is also why I'd be nonplussed if Morpheus, somehow, survived the assassin.)

Oracle was assimilated pretty quickly in comparison

She permitted it, I think.

I tought from the movie the times were always more or less similar. But I think too Oracle did not stopped the thing. But still took more at least 5-10s.

As well as particularly flashy effects.

cuz at that point smith upgraded from a 286 to a 486

I am glad that they didn't show us Sati's conversion.

Sati is the girl with glasses in the trailer I hope, I hope really friggin badly (edited)

I'm mixed on my consideration there... However, I do wonder if exiles would remember their transformation to Smith.

Metalogic

https://youtu.be/Gzl0dYq5-SY

that dress is iconic

In the CofD system I'm using "Belief" as the Integrity stat and "Awaken" as Power Stat, but now I'm thinking of switching them around. Essentially Awaken effects your Supernatural Tolerance against abilities by other creatures.

Arete.

22:07

I mean, literally, that's what Arete is - it's how awake you are to reality.

As a hobbyist game designer I'm always hesitant to use obscure vocab

That's exactly what one should do! XD

22:09

Esoteria helps establish a character to the world. (Overmuch, of course, is overbearing... but there is a balance.)

My first DnD character was a pre-gen Thri-Kreen named... well here's the sheet. Other players called me Shakira

Image attachment

22:10

From then on I've utilized more simplified vocabulary. My first character was a Thri-Kreen of similar design, but named Scar.

22:13

As for CofD I'm trying to figure out how Redpills would regain their Focus. In the video games this is passive overtime, but in CofD the resources are usually replenished via "Feeding". Maybe I'll make it you roll your Integrity at the end of combat or when you have a second to breath.

A mix being more my point - as Belief has all sorts of connotation, as does Awaken. For keynote items like such, esoteria is apt. (Because they're the fulcrum of the concept.)

Corbin

As for CofD I'm trying to figure out how Redpills would regain their Focus. In the video games this is passive overtime, but in CofD the resources are usually replenished via "Feeding". Maybe I'll make it you roll your Integrity at the end of combat or when you have a second to breath.

Yeah, per scene recover x is how I might put it.

22:15

But a limit would be a threshold of some sort gets attention from the Machine.

Anybody remember when the Hovercraft Battle took place for Ex-commander Lock? @starschwar ?

@Vesuveus I'll see if I can find out exactly when. It'd have to be no earlier than 8.3, because that's when Old Zion got overrun. And since he was missing in action for enough time for Roland to get the job, I want to say it was at least 9.1 when it happened.

Ok, I thought so. I checked Archival Science by Othinn, but no log for the event!!

23:20

I am genuinely shocked

23:20

I’ll check critical missions logs next

@Vesuveus From Mxo-Storyline.pdf, it's chapter 10.1.3.

23:22

Shortly thereafter, EPN and Zion hovercraft transferring Lock from the EPN base in Zion's old city to New Zion were attacked by Machine,
Cypherite, and Merovingian fleets. After a prolonged battle, the transfer of Commander Lock from EPN Captain Steelle's "The Hand of God" to
Zion Captain RedBindi's "The Titan" was completed successfully, and New Zion prepared to welcome their old Commander to the city.

Thanks!

Anytime.

Thoughts on my outline?

2:36

Tiers of Canon 1. Theatrical Trilogy, select Animatrix%. 2. Enter The Matrix, All Comics & Animatrix%. >Animatrix Tiers >>A. Final Flight of the Osiris, The Second Renaissance, Detective Story & Kid Story. >>B. Program, Matriculated, World Record & Beyond. 3. The Matrix Online >MxO Canon Tiers >>A. Chadwick Storylines, Critical Missions & Cinematics. Chapter 1 - 9. >>B. Chadwick's Live Event Team Events. Chapters 1 - 2.1. >>C. Rarebit Storylines, Cinematics & Critical Missions. Chapters 10* - 12.1. >>D. Live Events Special Interest Group Events, Contributions & Hovercraft Battles*. Chapters 2.2 - 12.1. >>E. Rarebit's released outlines for Chapters 12.2 - 14 >>F. Player Contributions. %Dependant on timeline *LESIG Hovercraft Battle for Lock's Fate! cited in Critical Mission 10.1.4 (edited)

Finally, someone else who understands tier of canons

I think its fair. I put my bias aside

Seems right, though as discussed there are some comics that are more or less dubious.

Yes, but that is why they are 2nd tier. They can't be plugged into the timeline

I'll show up for that stream (edited)

We already did it

3:30

Few months back, It's on NeoMatrixology's channel

Is this an iceberg chart?

I'm cold and slow on my own tyvm

Well, where I am is just about a raging inferno.. so I'll lend you some of the fire if you want.

My blood pressure can't handle that old man

4:48

:(

How does this work?

Image attachment

3

Ohhhh shiiiiiit

I did this from memory in about an hour. And know I’m missing shit.

Haaahaha

It’s tough when I can only remember one short story and one comic.

4:51

And the video games are pockets of expanded universe fodder.

Truth

4:52

Getting old is weird holnes

thistbh

1

Withered

1

That’s pretty funny and entertaining. But, overall, I think I just don’t ‘get’ the iceberg chart

Yeah, I'm there with ya.

The top layers

5:18

Vs

5:18

The deep layers

5:18

"only the tip of the iceberg"

Vesuveus

That’s pretty funny and entertaining. But, overall, I think I just don’t ‘get’ the iceberg chart

Basically, the deeper you go the more obscure the knowledge is

5:20

So the top layer is considered "common knowledge", and bottom layers are some really obscure facts, stories, and rumors

Whendid /what ismachines vs aliens ?

Goliath comic

Beleos

Whendid /what ismachines vs aliens ?

Short story about a Bluepill being trained to pilot a spaceship to destroy meteorites sent by aliens to destroy the Machine city. The pilot succeeds and the machines grant him a simulated life as a reward as he dies in outer space.

5:24

There is also a comic about how a phone repair man is forced by a Redpill to fix a hardline. Only for the guy to turn into an agent just as he fixes it|

5:27

I don’t like the real world stuff that I put in the iceberg. That shit seems too serious to put there.

Corbin

I don’t like the real world stuff that I put in the iceberg. That shit seems too serious to put there.

NGL, that's probably what evoked my response.

Everyone knows that Path of Neo is the actual canon story

1

Here's something I could never figured out. So humans are born into pods & they live in pods, basically floating in liquids. If the muscle of a newly free'd redpill has to be rebuilt, how are the pod people not just giant flesh sacs or have the consistency of jello?

being in a coma doesn't turn you into jello... right?

15:49

I hope not

I mean sure, Neo's pretty spry for a dude whose every muscle has atrophied, and has always been that way, nothing a quick tune-up won't fix!

Metalogic

Here's something I could never figured out. So humans are born into pods & they live in pods, basically floating in liquids. If the muscle of a newly free'd redpill has to be rebuilt, how are the pod people not just giant flesh sacs or have the consistency of jello?

Probably in that the machines want humanity to escape the pods to Zion. So they make sure that their bodies stay functional and healthy.

Corbin

Probably in that the machines want humanity to escape the pods to Zion. So they make sure that their bodies stay functional and healthy.

More of the fact that healthy body will be a better battery than a sick one.

Calaeus (radiofreezion.net)

More of the fact that healthy body will be a better battery than a sick one.

I mean cut off a person’s arms and legs they’d still work that way.

16:16

It’d be easy to subjugate humanity if they were blobs of fat like in Wall-E

Even in a coma, yup, you're not a jello. If I remember right also, human bodies breeded by thr machines were genetically modified to produce more energy for the machines.

never heard that one

The more I watch the Matrix the more I realize that the Oracle can’t see the future. And is just manipulating people

Eh, yes and no. No she can't actually see the future, but she knows how the Cycle of The One plays out. so she knows how to discreetly influence events in the 6th cycle to produce a different outcome.

18:26

I'd say The Oracle is more of a grand master chess player than someone who is clairvoyant.

But that leads me to feel like Neo’s visions don’t match the narrative.

18:31

Like the Oracle only shows up in Reloaded because the keymaker got derailed.

Even Morpheus says "Try not to think of it in terms of right and wrong. She is a guide, Neo. She can help you to find the path " so yeah

Oracle is playing 3D chess while Morpheus is playing checkers

Metalogic

Eh, yes and no. No she can't actually see the future, but she knows how the Cycle of The One plays out. so she knows how to discreetly influence events in the 6th cycle to produce a different outcome.

Why did the Oracle wait until the 6th cycle? If she manipulated the path of Neo to instigate a different outcome, how did she guarantee that Neo's love for Trinity would occur? What was different about Neo to allow him to disregard the "reset Matrix and start cycle again" decision?

The Oracle isn’t inhibited by a linear form of time structured off causation. She was built to investigate human psyche and is just so good at her job that she can follow the patterns of the human mind that she effectively knows what people and programs will do before they do them. The limitation is the subject must understand what it is they are doing. If they don’t she can’t see past the choices they are stuck on. So she doesn’t see the future she just predicts it and has a very good track record. As for “why Neo?”, in a cut bit from Reloaded’s script Neo was going to ask her if the One before him made it to the source. She tells him yes. Neo asks why the war didn’t end. Oracle says that his choices were different from Neo’s.

I always figured she was clarivoyant to a point because she can follow the processes of programs and people with high accuracy, until either she can't understand a choice or too many choices muddy the water? She seems deterministic and clarivoyant because she can process such an immense amount of data

19:35

And she uses her 'foreknowledge' to make those manipulations toward what she wants

She’s adamantly against that deterministic view. Her whole motif is around choice. What helps her is that nearly everyone else in the system insists they have none. So they’re pretty easy to follow because they’ve already given up on acting any other way. (This is the system crash the Architect is worried about FYI. That the more people realize they can actually make choices the harder it is for the system to process and anticipate, leading to a completely unknown scenario that he can’t even begin to fathom) (edited)

I felt like she was grooming Neo not to trust her. Someone brought up in a video that Neo goes from accepting the Oracle’s offer of a cookie in M1, to questioning the candy in M2, to not accepting in M3. Whereas Smith in M3 sees the cookies and says she put them there so he’d throw them and does so.

19:52

Essentially Neo can question choices brought up to him whereas Smith only sees one option.

Because Smith doesn't have a choice, he has a directive. A singular purpose of being.

He has a freedom of choice for sure. Especially after his resurrection.

And why was Smith resurrected? And by whom? Neither of those were by his own determination I don't believe. (edited)

It’s not that she wants Neo not to trust her, it’s that she’s open and honest with him that only he can decided if he wants to or not. On the cookies though, it’s a bit more in-depth. M1 he is willingly taking anyone’s advice to tell him what’s going on (takes and eats instantly) Reloaded he’s got parts figured out but still is looking for aid. So he takes the candy but doesn’t eat it. In M3 he is early and has shown up at the Oracles before she expected him. He’s finally got himself together. He doesn’t need the cookies. Smith needs the cookie, he just throws it away. The sugar the Oracle offers is her spiritual advice. Neo grows from consuming, to accepting, to no longer needing it.

Sared

And why was Smith resurrected? And by whom? Neither of those were by his own determination I don't believe. (edited)

Pretty sure Neo's code left in him had something to do with it.

20:05

Funny. In first movie he was talking about humanity being a virus, multiplying and spreading until there were no resources left. Curious how he ended up doing exactly that, even tho only digitally. agent

agent

Because he’s a hypocrite. A program that hates humanity but acts more human than anyone else. The reason he came back is because he didn’t want to die. Simple as that. The rest of it is just shit he’s making up to explain away his own self preservation.

LOLFACEMATRIX

1

Additionally Smith states that programs cannot love. Yet Sati’s father proves that that’s not the case.

Smith is pure ego personified and a bit of a nihilist

Sared

And why was Smith resurrected? And by whom? Neither of those were by his own determination I don't believe. (edited)

This is one of the main trusts that I talk about in my book, Neo going inside Smith at the end of M1 is a pivotal moment.

21:06

It changes both, Smith loses his purpose, and I feel Neo’s destructive urges get imprinted onto Smith

21:07

And Smith’s goals afterwards are reuniting with Neo and destroying the Matrix itself (edited)

After Smith was infected by Neo he said he knew the rules but he was “Compelled to stay” and “Disobey”. He was never given choice. (edited)

21:09

Smith was technically an orchestration of the Oracle.

21:10

She told Neo he had to die to save Morpheus. And he chose to fight Agent Smith. Upon dying Neo resurrected and created the Smith virus.

I guess this makes quite a lot of sense when you look at it this way.

Smith had a choice. Again he’s a hypocrite. His self preservation just kicked in and he needed an excuse to justify his nihilism without compromising it. “I want to end everything but when I got the chance to off myself something else made me not do it. It’s not my fault I’m here it’s yours/there’s” (edited)

“Now that I’m here I might as well turn everybody into me because people are mean”

21:14

Smith is an emo

I feel going onto the Merovingian speech “this is the nature of the universe”

Cause and effect?

21:15

Oracle is the Merovingian. Just able to identify the effect better.

Oh I just love how he starts that sentence. But I meant to say I favour the ambiguity because we’ve got here a number of different interpretations for Smith.

Merovingian benefits from that perspective but it’s still junk. Power puts him in control so that’s where he thinks everything is. But he’s frequently put back in place and loses his control by others peoples choices. His power is undermined at every instance he shows up. He’s just like the architect in believing he can orchestrate everything through force (where as the architect thinks it’s by illusion) but the prevailing philosophy is that of the Oracle. Everyone has a choice. (edited)

Ah that’s interesting, I always saw the different interpretations as different components of the whole rather than one being right and another wrong. That is great.

Especially since Merv made a choice to exile probably because of love (Persephone says they used to love each other like Neo and Trinity do)

Never properly thought why he exiled in the first place, of course!

It’s mostly speculation but it would make sense

Yeah sure, that’s what I like about this. There’s stuff we know and stuff we can only speculate.

I think it works well with the whole “Hades took Persephone to hell with him” mythology (edited)

Mmm yes

Calaeus (radiofreezion.net)

Pretty sure Neo's code left in him had something to do with it.

Is Neo a program?

SolivagantX

It changes both, Smith loses his purpose, and I feel Neo’s destructive urges get imprinted onto Smith

I would argue that Smith's purpose was not lost, only his sanctioned mandate. He still pursued his original purpose but in much more unrestricted ways.

1

Sared

Is Neo a program?

Technically he is. They refer to him as the Prime Program that facilitates the function of the one.

1

Mathematical anomaly, not a program.

I took Prime Program to mean just something in the Matrix itself, some fancy words

The resulting erroneous sum of an extremely complicated algorithm.

21:32

The one flaw that the architect would admit to.

Never took it to mean Neo. But I’d say even if Neo has no code he altered Smith’s when he jumped inside him.

In MXO files they refer to Trinity as a program.

That's because software programmers don't give a fuck

21:33

;)

21:35

And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

The Prime Program is just “the first program” IE the first set of functions to begin a cycle. That wiki article is full on wrong equating it to a subroutine etc.

21:38

Neo hitting the source is just a trigger to tell everyone in 01 “alright boys start it all over”.

Thats why I stay away from wikis for the Matrix there’s just so much ambiguous stuff in these movies.

Main()

Oh it’s bad. Like for starters “the prime program” bit is the only area in the entire scene (and maybe even trilogy) where suddenly you have to go looking for a super niche definition for the term. Webster’s got nothing on “prime program” nor does Wikipedia proper or google. And the sole instance I have found for using “prime program” in a programming context is out of a textbook printed in 2000 on sequencing structures for program models and flowcharts. So the wiki is taking a theory on program modeling and trying to twist it into a literal piece or feature of a program proper.

thistbh

1

Star Wars fans: first time?

LOLFACEMATRIX

1

At least wookiepedia looks dope (edited)

2

Ahahaha

Its easier to sort Star Wars lore, there’s contradictions in different books movies etc but its mostly based on facts. The ambiguity will be mostly in how the force works.

I'm legit thankful that Disney separated legends and canon. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Matrix never had that problem I don't feel. (edited)

Well, The Matrix never reached the height of popularity Star Wars did

It.should.have.

Eh, it was too cerebral for the general movie going audience. Star Wars is popular because it's basically laser sword fights and laser gun battles with the tiniest hint of a plot

q.q

They tried making the sequels more action-filmy, but we all saw how well that worked out.

Personally, I enjoyed those in there own manner.

Is it wrong to assume that the One is the 1% of the 1% of people who reject the Matrix that’s also the 1% that rejects Zion as well?

how many decimal points

0.0001

3:58

When they say Neo is an anomaly, I assume that’s what they mean.

3:59

You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision.

4:01

As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

4:01

Systemic Anomaly. (ie Neo)

4:03

99% will accept the Matrix. 1% will accept Zion. 1% of that 1% will accept neither.

Hm, the Systemic Anomaly is the Red Pills. Neo is the sum of those anomalies.

What do you mean by sum?

Really hard to explain that one - but the concept being you have all the errors popping up because of "wrong" choice, so they're collected together until a threshold. Once that threshold happens, the One cycle occurs.

4:08

(Do the Machines know the One at birth? Zion doesn't, for obvious enough reasons, but I don't think we can safely assume that the Machines do, either.)

That’s kind of where I think the 1% of the 1% happens. Once that happens the Machines know the new iteration is going to happen.

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing about the matter wholesale- just that the Systematic Anomaly has a byproduct of Red Pills.

4:11

Neo is a venting mechanism.

Definitely

4:13

I’ve just been seeing a lot of stuff about how Neo was specifically designed to be the one. Whereas I think he’s a known anomaly that could show up in multiple people if they get found by Zion.

4:14

If the Agents managed to kill Neo before Zion got him the countdown to Zion’s destruction would have been delayed, not stopped.

Corbin

I’ve just been seeing a lot of stuff about how Neo was specifically designed to be the one. Whereas I think he’s a known anomaly that could show up in multiple people if they get found by Zion.

Partially because that throws the estimate of 100 yr cycles to absolute shreds.

4:15

As in, the One cycle started some 25 years before the end of cycle event itself...

Each cycle of the matrix doesn't necessarily mean it's 100 years between anomalies either though?

Not necessarily, no.

4:17

As I said, estimate... more of a guess, really.

Yarr

I think the 100 years might be an estimate for each anomaly occurs. (edited)

Yeah, and for the Code to return to the Source.

Yup. They take in the code and study it. Add whatever they need to upgrade the Matrix for the next iteration.

4:21

My assumption would be that after each anomaly the time difference between the One occurring is increased.

Hm, I thought of it more like clock cycles in computing.

‍♂️

4:27

Talking about Matrix lore is kind of like playing Jazz.

4:28

So many ways to go about analyzing it.

4:30

If you look at the entirety of the Matrix series, Agents never really kill anyone.

Corbin

If you look at the entirety of the Matrix series, Agents never really kill anyone.

Wrong. Trinity got successfully killed. Granted, Neo resurrected her after he pulled the bullet out of her body.

Neo also got killed successfully, but Trinity saved him.

Was gonna say Mouse, but it was blue pill swat in that case

4:33

Led by an agent, not quite the same

Speaking of Mouse, he'd have pretty decent chances of surviving, had he use single gun in two hands.

Mouse was definitely a greenhorn when it came to the Neb crew

Mouse panicked, and died as a result.

4:34

(RIP, Mouse.)

1

4:35

(If I weren't on a plane... I would pour out my drink in honor.)

Morpheus says they recruit young individuals who are questioning reality. So my guess would be that Zion recruited him when he was 16 and trained him on simulations.

4:36

Mouse was definitely one of my favorites.

4:37

Rewatching the first movie I’m surprised how few scenes we get of all the crew.

Yeah, yet how impactful those scenes are.

4:39

TBQH, missed opportunity.

4:39

(Coulda easily had a Neb series pre-Neo in some format or another.)

There's another mini series idea or one off movie for the live action wishlist

I want Mouse, Digital Pimp series

The shop was closed when he passed.

4:44

That crew is what actually inspired me to - in MxO - become a captain in my own right. XD

They read Mouse’s will… “under my bunk you will find a box labeled vital documents… do not burn them. Distribute the porn to the masses!!!”

Lol

4:45

Also, gross.

4:45

Because the monitors work for the simulators.

4:46

That is, if you're using the ship's onboard simulation...

4:46

Everyone can see.

There are 250,000 people in Zion. They started with 23 individuals. Which means those people fuck.

breathtaking

1

4:47

Trinity and Ghost use simulators without monitors in Enter the Matrix for sparring.

I can’t imagine them releasing enough people to get the population that high.

Corbin

There are 250,000 people in Zion. They started with 23 individuals. Which means those people fuck.

Not much else to do in Zion for natural born. ¯\(ツ)\/¯

4:56

They don't have much in the way of jobs.

4:57

I mean, you only need so many folks preparing shells... and training on the exoskeletons only uses so much time.

4:58

Plus there are, what, 6 docks- each with a controller plugged into the sim.

4:58

Say they have 8 hour shifts..

4:59

You get the drift.

4:59

So, they've pretty much got reading & screwing.

I dunno, there's a pretty big number of jobs I can think of

5:04

Engineers, scavengers, likely some more "classical" hackers

5:05

Probably some form of miners digging through abandoned metal that's built up over the decades

5:05

Smithies would likely be needed too

5:05

Weavers, chemists, doctors

5:06

Physicists and biologists

We don't see these things?

And the guy who makes glowsticks

All we see are crew, defense, and politicians.

No, but we're talking about a city or resistance fighters with a significant population. They're not going to do nothing but sleep and fuck all day, they're going to find other ways to fight back.

I'm not saying these things aren't, but we also know that Zion is artificial.

Laucivol

All we see are crew, defense, and politicians.

And who built the hoverships? Who maintains them, who finds new parts, etc.

5:08

Sure, Zion is artificial, but even people in the Matrix had jobs

Dragonn

And who built the hoverships? Who maintains them, who finds new parts, etc.

Again, I'm simply at the, "What we know."

We don't even see that much of Zion, just like every other city in every other movie. We can assume there's a lot of infrastructure and unrelated jobs we're not going to be walked though because they're not plot-relevent

Conjecture is great and all, but as far as we know they have a dispenser of some sort for the grub.

5:09

But all it is, is conjecture.

5:10

So, I'm saying they're focusing on even keeping afloat and under the radar of the Machines which strongly limits the options of what fuckery they might explore.

Fungus farmers

Dragonn

And who built the hoverships? Who maintains them, who finds new parts, etc.

These are damn good questions... that we never found out the answer for AFAIK.

Corbin

I can’t imagine them releasing enough people to get the population that high.

So, yeah, I'm thinking the bulk do what humans do when survival is on the line.

5:45

Smith had a point about multiply.

5:46

That said... do we know how many ships were in the fleet?

5:46

I think it was discernable, I just don't recall it offhand.

I know there is an exact count for the ships in the fleet. I think it was 12, but not 100 percent sure. It was less than 20 and more than 6.

I'm thinking a dozen was about right.

Morpheus, Niobe, Soren, Thaddeus, Ice, Tirant, Kali, and Ballard

6:23

Roland

6:25

Think that’s every named captain from Reloaded (edited)

This is actually a good step by step on how the red pill works https://youtu.be/lQHNGBKO9fE

Jam Punch Storytelling

MATRIX: Red Pill EXPLAINED - What is it?!

Ajax. I forgot Ajax. Ten captains in Reloaded.

All of Zion's technology seems salvaged, but I imagine the Machines probably litter the surrounding areas of Zion with "broken" hovercrafts.

14:55

I get the feeling though there would have to be some explanation to the new Zionites about why the pre-Matrix technology has Matrix hijacking machines and jacks when pre-Matrix humans didn't have implants.

Yes, I think they find hovercrafts that can be fixed with the equivalent of rubber bands and scotch tape. "Good as new...aren't we lucky!?" Or some that work just fine, but just have deceased crews in them. And the implant machines could be tech "stolen" from the machines during war.

The machine side didn't get material help from the machines ?

Neronn

The machine side didn't get material help from the machines ?

In MXO?

Corbin

In MXO?

Yup !

The MXO lore is kind of wonky where Redpills are concerned, but Machinists likely didn't get upgrades from the Machines in case that technology fell into Zion or Merovingian hands.

I see and understand... At least, does the machinists were treated well by the machines ?

As well as any human faction. I think there were head canons that Machinists were allowed to operate within a close radius to the Machine City in order to give them protection from Zionists.

I'm kind of curious how they populated Zion without resorting to incest.

16:41

Unless the women just became like breeding livestock

depends on how long you think there was between the previous iteration selecting 16 females and 7 males to re-seed zion and when they started 'liberating' coppertops

From Britannica:

They created the “50/500” rule, which suggested that a minimum population size of 50 was necessary to combat inbreeding and a minimum of 500 individuals was needed to reduce genetic drift.

16:49

Technically we could use this calculation to determine how long it took for zion to get from 23 people to 250,000: https://arachnoid.com/lutusp/populati.html

The Mathematics of Population Increase

The Mathematics of Population Increase. Equations, examples, speech about overpopulation.

nerd

16:53

❤️

16:54

neat read though!

I think a good assumption would be that the initial Hovercraft crews would likely be given an easier time to awaken Redpills + initial help from the One maybe? Think about Redpills they are an asset on increasing the diversity of Zion's genepool. And the Machines wouldn't want to risk a scenario where Zion has so few Redpills that they cannot complete the cycle.

a bit of a jumpstart like that makes good sense yeah

16:56

I know the inbreeding thing would be combated as they free more minds and add more depth to the available gene pool

16:56

however

16:57

you could also argue that since they're all pod-grown anyway, that their DNA was engineered to be particularly stable, also fighting off all the nasty side-effects of cousin-fucking (edited)

neo

1

The inbreeding wouldn't matter as much within the first year of the Matrix as there could be more Redpill kids arriving.

Well, and we can surmise that Zion has stood for about 100 years.

That iteration of Zion

20:32

It's been destroyed several times

20:32

They're very good at it

More talking about the timetable, and generational concerns.

20:44

This implies that our.. scant few crews are insanely busy. XD (edited)

Did Zion ever condemn Morpheus' code bombing of The Matrix in MxO? I think they did but not sure.

They did. I think Niobe was sent to bring him in.

So, I'll be honest guys. I'm an idiot, like honestly I'm surprise I've been running a business for 12 years, a successful business.

1:36

However, I...I just don't get how Neo's visit to The Source (The Architect's TV room) translate to him having his powers in The Real.

1:37

Like, did his visit to The Source give him a Wi-Fi password to The Source?

listen to the architect again. Its all there.

Yea, but The Architect likes to use a lot of fancy words

bring a dictionary

1:39

Magic. Just accept that it’s magic

2:07

There is no answer. It’s just straight up magic

Right? But also, I guess the oracle said it too. That neo touched the source, and now he can feel not just code in the matrix, but the code of the machines. The actual mechanism of that is basically Magic Bluetooth tho. (edited)

Wi-fi Jesus

block

1

There was a video that delved into how Neo is linked to the software of the Machines. Hence why he can also see Smith in Bane.

@Metalogic that link help?

Yup

3:46

But now I'm down a Matrix rabbit hole reading everything this guy wrote

3:47

CURSE YOU!

3:47

I’m in a matrix rabbit hole with Matrix Explained.

3:48

I’m in the step by step analysis of Reloaded.

Yeah it’s pretty good stuff.

Y’all can do a lot better than “Matrix Explained”.

cookiemxo

1

LOLFACEMATRIX

1

Which analysis of reloaded?

Step by step. It’s mostly Easter egg stuff. I don’t like the theory stuff he puts out. Mainly because they can take huge leaps of logic.

4:17

Specifically the one where he postulated that the Oracle was the kamikaze robot from the Animatrix that killed human politicians.

4:21

There are types of theories that postulate stuff that doesn’t discredit the original text which I like. Like Neo being the 1% of the Redpills to reject Zion. Or that Zion is another simulation. But then there is stuff like Smith was present for all 6 iterations of the Matrix or the programs are actually Humans.

Yeah, the oracle being the UN robot was a mega leap (edited)

4:29

Pulled muscle making that stretch

I hit another one which is more about presentation styling of YouTubers in general. “Seraph’s code is golden symbolizing his connection to the Paradise Matrix.” “Neo recognizes that the Oracle’s code is gold similar to Seraph signifying that she’s from the Machine city.”

4:32

Like these are possibilities but are presented as fact.

For sure. I like that 2nd one though, which makes more sense than the paradise matrix idea. It can be inferred more easily and has visual cue ties to what is in the movies.

4:37

One thing I caught in Revolutions that was fun, was the bouncers from Club Hel called Seraph "wings" when they saw him approach in the garage. That was cute

“Wingless”

Oop

Two take always I have from rewatching the Oracle vs Smith scene. 1. Smith’s code is green but fuzzy and in shadow (Probably how Neo and Link saw Smith in the code “encrypted”. Oracle’s is bright green. 2. Seraph protects what matters most. And the Oracle had him protect Sati. 3. In the original Movie the Agents are green code. Possibly because they hijack Bluepills for their bodies. So maybe if a program uses a Bluepill body they camouflage inside the Matrix.

4:46

I added a third when I realized the first movie thing. Don’t judge me.

Does anyone know where I can find more info on the myths of Morpheus?

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Morpheus-Greek-mythology

Morpheus | Greek mythology

Morpheus, in Greco-Roman mythology, one of the sons of Hypnos (Somnus), the god of sleep. Morpheus sends human shapes (Greek morphai) of all kinds to the dreamer, while his brothers Phobetor (or Icelus) and Phantasus send the forms of animals and inanimate things,

Corbin

Two take always I have from rewatching the Oracle vs Smith scene. 1. Smith’s code is green but fuzzy and in shadow (Probably how Neo and Link saw Smith in the code “encrypted”. Oracle’s is bright green. 2. Seraph protects what matters most. And the Oracle had him protect Sati. 3. In the original Movie the Agents are green code. Possibly because they hijack Bluepills for their bodies. So maybe if a program uses a Bluepill body they camouflage inside the Matrix.

Oracle was originally going to have code similar to Seraph. Was cut due to budget. Quote from the script "Sitting on a dark green bench is the Oracle, casting crumbs to a clutch of black birds. In the distance, several children are playing on a swing set. Neo stares at her for a moment seeing her code-form which is the same as Seraph's. Once again, she starts talking to him before she sees him" (edited)

6:38

Script described Seraph as such "In the code world, Neo sees his true form; sitting Buddha- like in the surrounding swirl of code, a being of pure liquid light contained by a web of Matrix code that is written in the negative or rather with the absence of light."

Dumb question but why would the color of the code impact the budget?

The whole scene would have to be done over. Takes time to do time to process time to edit etc.

6:50

So you can put man hours into making the code yellow, or you put that effort elsewhere

"Once again, she starts talking to him before she sees him" how the hell did I never notice this

10:54

these movies are just brilliant

Ouranos

Dumb question but why would the color of the code impact the budget?

I actually doubt it was a budgeting choice -- the sequels had what in those days amounted essentially to unlimited dollars for production. I think it's more likely it was simply a choice made in editing, or even prior to shooting. Sometimes a shot just "doesn't work", for one reason or another.

I think budget was also the reason why we only got the Twins as supernatural looking exiles. And the Werewolves and Vampires just looked like stunt guys.

What would have happened if Neo returned to the source? Would Smith have been purged? Or would the Machines been screwed as Smith derailed the Matrix? Makes me wonder if the Oracle foresaw Smith as a possible failure point that Neo was necessary to prevent.

the Matrix would have entered a new cycle so I guess Smith would have been deleted with the previous one

Corbin

Technically we could use this calculation to determine how long it took for zion to get from 23 people to 250,000: https://arachnoid.com/lutusp/populati.html

24

Metalogic

However, I...I just don't get how Neo's visit to The Source (The Architect's TV room) translate to him having his powers in The Real.

Afterwards he saved trinity. They traded code and he had BIP programming. Hence, WiFi Jesus. That’s my theory.

16:37

Trinity being close to him may be a proxy

WiFi Neo shows how unimportant jacks are.

Yea, but only WiFi Jesus can use WiFi

If the Machines could just WiFi people into the Matrix, why use cables?

Because wired is more reliable and faster than WiFi

16:47

This is why gamers still have wired networks instead of WiFi networks

But we didn’t see Neo stuttering around like he had low latency.

Metalogic

Yea, but only WiFi Jesus can use WiFi

Net neutrality

What?

Wiki: Network neutrality is the principle that all Internet traffic should be treated equally. ... Net neutrality is the principle that an internet service provider (ISP) has to provide access to all sites, content and applications at the same speed, under the same conditions without blocking or giving preference to any content.

matrixredpill

1

Ahh

18:35

I knew what NN was, just didn't know how it applied to WiFi Jesus

Vesuveus

Afterwards he saved trinity. They traded code and he had BIP programming. Hence, WiFi Jesus. That’s my theory.

but there was no BIP when the movies came out

Metalogic

I knew what NN was, just didn't know how it applied to WiFi Jesus

Ok, I figured. I threw that out as a joke. But it’s less funny knowing that’s what’s gonna happen

sixxth

but there was no BIP when the movies came out

This is true. Do you believe they wrote or outlined the trilogy prior to making part 1.

Vesuveus

This is true. Do you believe they wrote or outlined the trilogy prior to making part 1.

They probably had an idea, but write it out fully when they got the green light from Warner Bros.

When you take the pill are you taken into a computer?

Redpill acts as a signal from the Bluepill back to the Hovercrafts. They trace the signal to the tower you’ll be at. Then when you are flushed they pick you up at the feeding reservoir you are dumped in before you drown and are turn into Bluepill food.

In the Matrix Neo’s body got coated in the mirror. But no idea if this is a normal occurrence. Likely so because the Redpills act like it’s pretty routine.

they cant see it.

22:15

the redpill is disrupting neo's brain signal to the matrix

22:15

so he sees reality breaking up

Seems like they can Morpheus talks to Neo while it happens. Unless he sees himself just talking down a guy tripping on drugs? I imagine the body disappears similar to how Redpills disappear when they jack out via hard lines.

we never see anyone jack out in the movies

22:17

(or jack in, for that matter)

22:18

they are talking to neo yes, but the machines think he is dead when the redpill virus program finishes replicating to his rsi, which is why docbot disconnects and flushes his body IRL

22:18

i doubt they see the magic mirror stuff happening though

We see Morpheus do it in the first movie at the end.

thats through a hardline though, and even then they avoid showing it (just the phone falling down and a camera cut)

He picks up the telephone in the subway station and his body turns into code, with the phone falling out of their hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0SYH7O1bo

AllAboutTheMatrix

Smith Will Suffice

22:22

We see it a few times

22:22

twice in that scene

thats reloaded

We saw it in the first one too and it was nearly identical.

either way, i forgot, its the jacking in we never see

"Neo was originally going to be played by Will Smith, but Will Smith suffice?" should not have glanced at the comments

rajkosto

either way, i forgot, its the jacking in we never see

This is correct. Closest we get is in EtM and its......rough

It shows the perspective of the Redpills and it’s hilarious.

22:26

I like how MXO does it. Magic lights

mxo kinda does it backwards

22:26

with the code when you jack in

22:26

and a light flash when you jack out

22:27

also, the Personal Firewall effect in MxO must have been inspired by the redpill mirror effect consuming neo

Gami

This is correct. Closest we get is in EtM and its......rough

Reality just kinda forms from the Loading Area. That would be jarring the first few times, for sure. I wonder if Neo vomits in the Matrix when they first cut over.

All we know about the process of Jacking In is that the Operator calls a phone.

Well, and as mentioned, EtM we see the two of them load in.

23:26

My point was that it's probably damn disorienting when you're not used to it.

https://youtu.be/l9s7i28eaEI

Enter the Matrix All Cutscenes 4K Ultra HD ( Full Game Movie ) #1

0:34

First 45 seconds

0:35

I wonder how it looks from the outside.

yes i remember that, and its similar to them moving linearly from the sky in the jump program

6:41

still doesnt show what others see

Image attachment

I just want Sati’s sunrise every day in MXO.

Corbin

I just want Sati’s sunrise every day in MXO.

But then it wouldn't be special

We shall commodify the special. Box it repackage it and sell it to the masses for consumption

Corbin

We shall commodify the special. Box it repackage it and sell it to the masses for consumption

Oof. Because this hits a bit too close to home nowadays.

Laucivol

Oof. Because this hits a bit too close to home nowadays.

Don’t worry we will compensate you with a pull of nostalgia to keep it down.

I think I figured out what is The Prime Program. It is the core Matrix code. It is what everything is built upon in terms of The Matrix. Every time a redpill rejects The Matrix, it creates a systemic anomaly, an error in the system. Those errors add up over time and to prevent them from becoming a threat to the system itself, all those errors are complied into one person, The One. With 1-5, when The One chose to return to The Source, his counter-choice not only balanced the equation in terms of those systemic anomalies, but it also patches The Prime Program before it's reinserted so that The Matrix can be updated. Because, The Architect, being the strict mathematical perfectionist he is, will always strive for 100% acceptance of The Program.

18:28

It would also explained why The Matrix had so many problems in MxO's timeline. Neo didn't return to The Source, so the errors complied in his code was never used to update The Prime Program.

so the prime program is basically a win 10 iso on a usb stick?

4

Yea

David T. Gregory

so the prime program is basically a win 10 iso on a usb stick?

Slipstreamed with the newest hotness.

That's my interpretation of The Prime Program line anyways.

it makes sense, really

1:30

it ties in with the choice programming as well. if the one as a stand-in for all the rejections chooses to go back, every errror can be cleared up and undone

Yup

although tbh for the one being the ultimate rejection neo still plays by the rules a lot

1:34

super speed, super strength, flying. what else does he do

1:35

sure it has devastating effects, see the destruction of god knows how many city blocks during his rescue flight for trinity, but thats still not exactly teleporting

I mean, he does fly

1:36

and he sticks his unclean hand into Trinity's body to restart her heart, leading to gods know how many infection.

neo

1

okay thats true

1:37

but that seems to be the only case of actual outright hacking

I gotta say though, was Neo and Trinity in love, or was it more like co-dependency? I mean, she didn't have a lot of dating choice aboard The Nebuchadnezzar before Neo showed up

1:38

Cypher was a creep, Tank seem more like a younger brother, Mouse was a pervert. I'm sure Dozer was hooking up with Switch and Morpheus was the religious fanatic.

the oracle said shed fall in love with the one

Machines and program lie

everybody lies

Image attachment

Maybe I'm just letting my jadeness speak

i think they were actually in love. maybe there wasnt much else going on on the neb but it showed in the sequels

1:41

sex scene, self sacrifice and whatnot

True

I feel like I’m told how in love they were rather than seeing it. But it’s supposed to be genuine love

I dunno, it just feels rushed to me.

Metalogic

It would also explained why The Matrix had so many problems in MxO's timeline. Neo didn't return to The Source, so the errors complied in his code was never used to update The Prime Program.

So you think mxo took place in the 6th version?

Vesuveus

So you think mxo took place in the 6th version?

I dunno if it does or not. I don't know if that scene at the end of Revolutions of The Matrix returning to normal after Smith was defeated was the Prime Program being reinserted, starting the 7th Matrix or if it's like s reload of a save file.

I always thought it was a restore point, and mxo runs in the 6th version heading for a crash because it’s on borrowed time and now people are just freed

Yea, that's my assumption as well.

2:30

The Prime Program wasn't reinserted, so the errors wasn't countered by Neo's Choice, The Systemic Anomalies are still happening

2:30

Which leads to instability of The Matrix in MxO

Apparently we’re in the minority on that opinion. Everyone thinks Deus Ex Machina took the code and reloaded the Matrix to version 7

Architect to Neo: you fucked up the equation bruh.

I say that’s hogwash.

Vesuveus

Apparently we’re in the minority on that opinion. Everyone thinks Deus Ex Machina took the code and reloaded the Matrix to version 7

I dunno, The Machines seem to be really big on delegation, like a thousand and one cogs to keep the whole operation going.

2:33

So I don't know if Deus Ex Machina really pays attention to The Matrix except when it threatens The Machines in The Real.

2:35

It's like The Oracle said "There's programs running all over this place." RiffTrax: "God, nowhere to be found."

If you don't ignore your server errors until the hardware crashes, you're not a real sysadmin

I just don't think The Machines are a hive mind like The Borg from Star Trek.

2:36

The movies, Animatrix, or the comics never show that.

Absolutely not, functions are separated and compartmentalized

I have a theory that they were a hive mind at one point, but something happened in the early part of the Man-Machine war that temporarily crippled the machines so they moved to the compartmentalized model

Of course, otherwise Neo could have assaulted the core correctly from within the matrix proper

There's just so much here for a story outside of the Neo-Trinity duo

2:41

A TV series about The Man-Machine war in the style of The Band of Brothers meet Sarah Conners Chronicles would be awesome!

So, Rogue One but for the Matrix?

2:42

"Check it out, here's a bunch of relatable, humanized characters for you to care about. Hold still while we kill 'em."

Hahahaha

2:42

Yea

2:42

Rogue One is the best Disney Star Wars film, fight me.

I'm not here to waffle stomp stawas nerds, that's a different server.

lol

2:43

You should try that joke again.

I'm not here to take a buncha dumbfuck adolescent pimple-faced zygotes to task in order to show them exactly why their momma said making friends on the internet was a bad idea. (edited)

LOL

How's that

Anyways, it's bedtime for Bonzo, g'fight and g'night

❤️

Metalogic

Cypher was a creep, Tank seem more like a younger brother, Mouse was a pervert. I'm sure Dozer was hooking up with Switch and Morpheus was the religious fanatic.

Switch and Apoc were a couple if anyone. Dozer had Cas (Kas?)

I've seen the Switch/Apoc coulple theory floated about. It seems possible. Was that in the script anywhere?

Not to my knowledge. Switch’s reaction to Apoc’s death is all it’s built on

3:45

And they’re always next to each other. They could just be close is all.

Yeah, they were grouped together often. It seems

I thought the we're both assigned "guard duty," based on Switch pointing a gun at Neo in the car and then the events at the hotel at the end of the film.

They have definitely seen some shit together.

We know so very little about either of them. Apoc seems chill, tho.

4:18

I can go with the Switch & Apoc "more than friends" theory. Sounds fine to me.

Its cold on that ship

its all fan fiction tbh

sixxth

its all fan fiction tbh

https://youtu.be/jWo4fU0QRfM

Shipping. (The Owl House)

wasn't switch supposed to be a girl in the matrix but a man in the 'real world' (edited)

I heard it the other way around.

Lore wise what do you think is something we will never get an answer to?

5:26

I’m thinking we will never get an answer to the original purposes of Merovingian and Persephone.

I wouldn’t expect anything post Second Ren pre-M1 from the Wachowskis. If any of that time period gets covered it will be by other writers on other projects.

Vesuveus

Apparently we’re in the minority on that opinion. Everyone thinks Deus Ex Machina took the code and reloaded the Matrix to version 7

I'm on board with the thought, all things considered, that this is still the 6th iteration - with an applied restore point equivalent.

Laucivol

I'm on board with the thought, all things considered, that this is still the 6th iteration - with an applied restore point equivalent.

Trinity "died". Neo returned to the source. It was different, but not unexpected ;P

We're not sure if Neo returned to the source.

15:27

Not even sure if Trin actually died for that matter. XD

Well at the very least he thought she did

it's implied so far that the Machines keeping Neo's body is one of the plot points from MxO that's confirmed canon, a brief of shot of Neo plugged in in the Matrix 4 trailer reveals a complete lack of pod, implying he's still in the machine city

He's in a pod in the trailer.

16:11

Its a weird isolated pod across from one other, (assumed to be Trinity's Pod). But he gets reinserted.

Well, at least reinsertion is canon. Happy Cyph noise

Damn Cypherites.

Finally, a win for us Cypherites.

Ironically the best fan theory I've read about the trailer so far is that Neo is being rewarded by the machines for saving The Matrix from Smith by being reinserted into the next version of it as a famous actor (exactly the thing Cypher wanted to be) where the prior films (or at least the first one) are actually the in-universe films that propelled him to fame (edited)

I could see that

I don’t like the in-universe film angle because it seems too much like a leap. I think people like that theory because they are showing a film of the first matrix in that theater, but I think it’s more likely that that is an archive recording from the Matrix.

Corbin

I don’t like the in-universe film angle because it seems too much like a leap. I think people like that theory because they are showing a film of the first matrix in that theater, but I think it’s more likely that that is an archive recording from the Matrix.

Best way to hide something is in plain sight.

tbh I'm not sure I would have been sold exactly on the theater shots alone, but when combined with the blue pill teaser where the Neil Patrick Harris therapist is warning Neo about "confusing fiction with reality" it suddenly makes a lot more sense that way

Some rumors say Neo may be a game designer as opposed to an actor.

also entirely plausible, though I would argue the symbolic nature of "actor" as a call back would be the superior choice

Someone is a Cypherite... (wow, my gut reaction was visceral & cruel. >.> something akin to- "You always have the option of an eternal sleep.")

Is it weird that B1-66ER caused the first machine uprising because it was going to be deleted by humans? And now the machines decide to also delete programs when their time has come?

0:49

I know they can choose Exile, but it seems less like a choice and more of escape because the Merovingian is the only one who can allow travel.

If the program no longer has a purpose, then it is deleted. It's why Sati was in Mobil Ave at the beginning of Revolutions

If they also get replaced with a new program.

0:53

B1-66ER was going to be replaced with a newer model.

Yep

So the Machines became what they feared worst.

It's very human of them.

Then they developed love in the update.

Turning point was likely the blackening of the sky and creating the Matrix. Suddenly everything has to be devoted to energy sustainability and valuing resources. They likely could not waste much and so out dated and functionless programs needed to be terminated

Interesting idea @Gami . I’d never thought about the evolution of machine thought regarding utility, always assuming “purpose” was always the main goal. But I like this idea. And the questions raised in relation to purpose & utility from the machines keeping Neo around in one way, shape or form after M3. Assuming his purpose in returning the code has been fulfilled, then there’s no reason to keep him in any way. And that would show a development of (or return to) respect for non-utility or lack of purpose. Also signified by Sati still being with Oracle at end of M3 of course.

Does anyone know which church held the Morpheus funeral?

I think it was in the slums and near one of the bridges

Church of The Disciples?

That the one in Sobra?

Mannsen Park

2:11

Sobra is First Unified Church

Think it was unified. Stacks archive should have a mention of it

Okay

Just checked Stack's timeline. He's got it listed as being First Unified Church is Sobra Shores.

Anyone ever wondered how The Cycle worked in the 3rd Matrix, when The Architect (and The Oracle) started giving humans a choice?

23:42

I mean, for the first cycle, there is no Zion, there is no redpills, but The One still has to be born and trained and guide to The Source to reinsert The Prime Program

They would have been aware of the problem before starting the Matrix, I imagine - as giving people a choice would inevitably lead to some rejection of the program.

0:12

It begs the question of whether they seeded Zion, too, or just like ... winged it.

0:13

The implication is they "create" The One as a manifestation of the anomaly, right, so they would be pretty much controlling everything, as much as they can, from the start.

0:14

But how Zion got like started started it definitely a weird vague point. The Machines would have had to personally select the 24 humans to awaken and start Zion in the 1st Cycle. My head hurts. (edited)

They probably chose 23 individuals. 16 females, 7 males.

This ratio might be where the orgies originated.

My question is how does the Oracle gain legitimacy with the Redpills.

0:46

They must think she’s a clairvoyant Bluepill of some type.

Did I say 24? Woops.

So I'd make the argument that Morpheus and several others had at least an idea, though the strongest counter to that would be their surprise to meeting other renegade programs like Merv and Co.

0:52

But it's rational to argue that they thought she was a lone rogue program

Or, if we go with them having a Faith, then they believe her to be an aberration that proves their faith. Nobody knows who she is but she knows all, thus she must be an instrument of faith. Lock poo-poos her when arguing with Morpheus so there's definitely a debate and disagreement about who she is and whether she has any legitimacy.

0:54

Morpheus is, after all, seen as crazy by a lot of folks.

0:55

(and all of the Neb, by extension) (edited)

Lock was a redpill right?

Good ... question

It would make sense that natural born humans would dismiss all that as superstitious nonsense (edited)

Oh no he's natural Zion born

0:56

So good point

This may be confirmation bias, but I'm fairly certain in the council scene when they ask lock about morpheuss and the NebChud that you can see ports on the bodies of the elders

0:58

Lock never bought in to that faith because he only believes what he sees

Councillor Hamann talks about having "been asleep the first twelve years of my life" when he can't sleep

0:58

Which feels like a confirmation of being from the farm

oh def

He doesn't seem to have a port on his neck but I figure that might be a filming/makeup snafu

I have just finished the 3rd movie for the first time and briefly read through the MxO timeline to have a grasp on the grand scheme of things and it made me wonder about something. I have read that Morpheus was adamant getting Neos body back and he was willing to keep stepping on the edge of pissing off the machines and possibly igniting another conflict. Why would he do that, wasn't peace his ultimate goal? was he maybe not fully believing that current peace after the 3rd movie ? (edited)

1:02

btw it blows my mind how I missed all this stuff so far

hell yeah, I'm a little jealous, wish I could watch through the trilogy for the first time again

if only you would have seen my sweaty forehead scrolling through the MxO archives like an hour ago. absolutely fantastic universe, loved every bit

PBlade

Did I say 24? Woops.

People say that usually because they think the One is also a there.

I've honestly been remembering bits of MxO story that I'd forgotten. And I was there for it all.

1:07

Very, very dense.

Raven

I have just finished the 3rd movie for the first time and briefly read through the MxO timeline to have a grasp on the grand scheme of things and it made me wonder about something. I have read that Morpheus was adamant getting Neos body back and he was willing to keep stepping on the edge of pissing off the machines and possibly igniting another conflict. Why would he do that, wasn't peace his ultimate goal? was he maybe not fully believing that current peace after the 3rd movie ? (edited)

He never believed that Neo would create peace. He believed that Neo would win the war against the Machines.

1:10

So setting off code bombs against the Machines was very much within his belief system.

Raven

I have just finished the 3rd movie for the first time and briefly read through the MxO timeline to have a grasp on the grand scheme of things and it made me wonder about something. I have read that Morpheus was adamant getting Neos body back and he was willing to keep stepping on the edge of pissing off the machines and possibly igniting another conflict. Why would he do that, wasn't peace his ultimate goal? was he maybe not fully believing that current peace after the 3rd movie ? (edited)

Some things are more important than peace.

1:24

That, and when you spend your entire life in conflict for a purpose - the best you get is a brief respite... or death.

Gami

Just checked Stack's timeline. He's got it listed as being First Unified Church is Sobra Shores.

Do you have a link to Stack's timeline?

Metalogic

Do you have a link to Stack's timeline?

https://www.mxoarchive.net/timeline.html

Gami

https://www.mxoarchive.net/timeline.html

Danke

Raven

I have just finished the 3rd movie for the first time and briefly read through the MxO timeline to have a grasp on the grand scheme of things and it made me wonder about something. I have read that Morpheus was adamant getting Neos body back and he was willing to keep stepping on the edge of pissing off the machines and possibly igniting another conflict. Why would he do that, wasn't peace his ultimate goal? was he maybe not fully believing that current peace after the 3rd movie ? (edited)

Unfortunately this never got addressed. Paul Chadwick just left that plot die with Morpheus. The last writer on MxO wrote it off as Morpheus just went crazy.

He does seem to doubt himself when talking to the Oracle, asking if it's the right thing to do.

12:01

He is definitely driven more by emotion than he is by reason, which is a marked shift from how he operates before Revolutions.

12:01

He seems to be doing it for his friend, and out of a lingering distrust of the Machines. But unfortunately, as said, it was never properly developed.

What do you expect? Morpheus is in a world where he’s accomplished what his purpose was. This is the first time he’s off the track.

Showed the Matrix to a friend who had never seen it the other night. She brought up several interesting questions while we were watching, the most minor being this one…What exactly is Dozer doing to the ports on Neo after they first fish him out of the sewers? I never really paid attention before, but it looks like he’s installing something in the ports or removing the metal. There seems to be a wrench involved. Is there any lore on whether they need to cap off all those holes? Going from a completely sterile goo pod into a literal sewer, and then into the rest of the real world, I mean, that’s gotta cause some major disease risk. I’m thinking they add caps to the plugs except for a few for IV use, as we see.

there are no plugs when in the machine pod, only holes

14:15

he adds all the plugs which are self-closing unless the needle is going in which makes them open

That’s what I was thinking when I saw the wrench thing. Definitely looks like plug installation. Thanks!

rajkosto

he adds all the plugs which are self-closing unless the needle is going in which makes them open

That would explain why the infection rate in Zion isn't exploding.

My shit take on the movie themes: 1. “I am the chosen one” 2. You have two choices; be our pawn in keeping humans as batteries but lose your girlfriend or destroy all of humanity and indirectly lose your girlfriend. 3. Save humanity, but lose your girlfriend… on your own terms!

My take on the theme of each movies 1) Lifting up the veil of the illusion 2) Choice, the problem is choice 3) But what if there's a third way?

16:31

4) is obviously going to be about memory.

I think: 1) Choice, the lack of choice, and how knowledge defines our actions, awakening 2) Actually, there is no choice, everything is controlled for (anti-capitalism) 3) Fuck that. Tear it down. Or get as close as possible. Find another way. Do the best you can with what you have. 4) What if The Matrix was a movie in The Matrix wouldn't that be WEIRD

hot take on Neo: 1. Fuck the man, I’m going to join the rebellion. 2. Fuck, the rebellion is actually controlled by the man. 3. Fuck my personal rebellion against the man was orchestrated by the Oracle. 4. Fuck my nostalgia for my rebellion is created by the man!

1. Mr. Anderson. 2. Mr. Anderson! 3. Neo...wait.

Corbin

hot take on Neo: 1. Fuck the man, I’m going to join the rebellion. 2. Fuck, the rebellion is actually controlled by the man. 3. Fuck my personal rebellion against the man was orchestrated by the Oracle. 4. Fuck my nostalgia for my rebellion is created by the man!

I dig this.

I can do so many.

The Oracle doesn’t make prophecies on screen as far as I can tell. She manipulates a lot though. 1st Movie - She tells Neo to turn around. He knocks over a vase. She then says would you still have broken it if I said nothing. 1st Movie - She says he isn’t the One and he has a choice. Let Morpheus die or die to save Morpheus. He does die and come back. But end result Morpheus is saved and Neo is alive. 2nd Movie - Oracle is missing. Likely because her purpose of putting Neo on his path was done. Upon seeing him she says I know you’ve not been sleeping. While this may be precognitive it could be a cold reading or she could be used to this happening with previous Ones. 2nd Movie - She offers Neo a seat and candy to which he questions how he can make a choice if she knows the answer. In these situations she doesn’t need to know the future only how to act smug when he does. Enter the Matrix - Ghost’s scene is the most fun. He asks what is his response to her claim. She responds with what may be a quote from their previous conversations. She says that two programs she trusted sold her code to the Merovingian hence her new body. And she knowingly let it happen because the child is important. She doesn’t know why she is. But this doesn’t have a prophecy or vision associated with it. 3rd Matrix - Oracle tells Neo she hoped she’d have the cookies done by his arrival. She says she was surprised by Neo which means she didn’t know what he’d do. 3rd Matrix - Smith mocks her by tossing cookies. She asks what happened to Sati. Smith quotes Sati. Sidebar: Both Smith and the Merovingian want the Oracle’s eyes but while this may give insight in how she analyzed the world and manipulates people I think at the very least Smith misunderstands her powers. He might think he is seeing what will happen while the Oracle can only see possibilities. As such he sees Neo die but Neo surprises the Oracle and even she couldn’t know that assimilating Neo would cause Smith to die.

good point, I think the Oracle's foresight is merely just an extension of having directed all the previous Ones to do their jobs and thus, her advice and responses were general statements corresponding to that pattern, it's clear that in Revolutions when Neo has wandered off the railroaded path she doesn't really know what to say (edited)

21:36

she can predict the future only insofar as she knows how the cycle of the One is supposed to play out

Neo seeing Trinity’s death is the only prophecy visually shown in the movies and I wonder if it was orchestrated by the Architect.

21:41

Because it shows a lot that is known about the way the One returns to the source. That building has to be shutdown for Neo to get in.

She doesnt ask him to turn around? Oracle: I'd ask you to sit down, but you're not going to anyway. And don't worry about the vase.

She gets him to turn around.

Mistyped.

lol you gotta be EXACT in here, or pay the price lololol

Also technically what she actually says is "What's really gonna bake your noodle later on is... would you have still broken it if I hadn't said anything?"

thats after the line I quoted, yup

Vivian

Also technically what she actually says is "What's really gonna bake your noodle later on is... would you have still broken it if I hadn't said anything?"

I will pee on your grave!

21:44

while we're being pedantic, I dont think she tells him hes not the one directly....she leads him to guess, he says hes not the one, then says - maybe youre waiting for your next life....which is kinda what happens

That being said her function being specifically to control the redpills and the One is something that can't be discarded

sixxth

while we're being pedantic, I dont think she tells him hes not the one directly....she leads him to guess, he says hes not the one, then says - maybe youre waiting for your next life....which is kinda what happens

That is also correct, she never explicitly says Neo's not the one, that's just how he interpets that line

sixxth

while we're being pedantic, I dont think she tells him hes not the one directly....she leads him to guess, he says hes not the one, then says - maybe youre waiting for your next life....which is kinda what happens

This is correct. Earlier drafts she is much more direct and confirms he isn’t The One but by 98 it’s left ambiguous.

after he dies and comes back, he is the One - which is what she alluded to in the movie

21:47

quite clever phrasing

She also tells him he’s got The Gift. Just that he’s waiting on something. Next life maybe

Also what the part about "one of you is going to die" entails

yah thats the wording

Because technically one of them does (edited)

correct!!!

21:49

sorry Corbin, carry on

Anyway, Oracle does make prophecies. “I’m interested in one thing Neo, the future. And believe me the only way to get there is together” movie is pretty direct in trying to tell the audience the lady is clairvoyant

sixxth

after he dies and comes back, he is the One - which is what she alluded to in the movie

I sometimes wonder if him defying that prediction is what makes him be the One.

I think he fulfills that prediction though

It could be that this is just how the One's awakening is preprogrammed (edited)

sixxth

I think he fulfills that prediction though

She’s looking for an anomaly who’ll defy the path set in front of him by the Machines.

Which he does

Dying and coming back to life because of love is a pretty clear anomaly

21:52

in of itself tbf

21:52

The Oracle also being designed to guide the One on a predetermined path is still entirely true though, it is still why she gets lost about it in Revolutions (edited)

shes a guide, Morph tells Neo that

21:54

But I do believe he has free will, and that was an important part of it. "make up your own damn mind"

21:55

(the word damn always felt out of place to me in that scene.....)

It is also worth noting that The Architect outright says that Neo's becoming the One because of love is explicitly unique in a way the prior Ones did not do

Vivian

The Oracle also being designed to guide the One on a predetermined path is still entirely true though, it is still why she gets lost about it in Revolutions (edited)

The only reason she shows up in Reloaded is to point him to the Keymaker.

Vivian

It is also worth noting that The Architect outright says that Neo's becoming the One because of love is explicitly unique in a way the prior Ones did not do

They still did because of Love. But it was a love for humanity as a whole.

22:00

Whereas Neo was actively seen as more attached to Trinity. Such as when they get to Zion and she leaves him with the disciples while he just wants to be with her. And how they leave the rave to have private intimate sex.

Yes, but the specific context of Neo's love is still a stated anomaly in and of itself, Neo's love being for one person specifically is arguably the precise reason why he refuses to immediately return to the Source on the spot (edited)

22:02

So yes, it is still ultimately true that Neo is a unique anomaly that complicates the path he was expected to take, ironically this also allows him to think outside the box and instead choose to save humanity by directly helping the machines defeat Smith

22:04

One of other thing of note, while the Oracle tells Neo Smith is meant to be an anomaly on the other side balancing him out, something I've always thought about is that The Architect tells Neo that not immediately returning to the Source would cause a system crash killing every bluepill, which the Smith virus was clearly about to cause anyway, makes me question that statement and also makes me question if a crisis along the lines of the Smith virus is also a predetermined part of the path of the One somehow

It’s mentioned that the Anomaly will eventually lead to the destruction of the Matrix if left unchecked.

ah, right (edited)

Programatically, the Oracle is just an intuitive program, right? She intuits and predicts human behaviour based on, I assume, a form of machine learning.

22:08

She doesn't have actual foresight because that's impossible, but she can predict to a high degree of certainty.

22:08

(If this is stuff you said already then I'm sorry, but that was a lot of text right there).

22:09

The Oracle's original purpose, I assume, was to learn and understand humans in order to help create their more perfect environment in The Matrix.

22:09

So she has a fair bit of understanding of how we tick.

22:09

She's pretty much that Prediction Genie website thing.

yes, I think that's a really good way of framing it, her foresight is predictions based on past experience

22:10

Which end up faulting when Neo does not directly take the path of the prior Ones

Yeah when they talk in Revolutions, she's definitely more like "you need to go to the Source" but doesn't say she knows why.

22:11

Because she doesn't, really, she just has a hunch.

22:12

I could be wrong about that interpretation though, seeing as how she lets Smith control her, then has the important line to Neo at the end as Oracle Smith.

22:12

Which, in effect, is the thing that saves everything. The question must be, then, did she know what Deus Ex Machina would do?

probably not, when Smith gains the Oracle's foresight, that includes the limitations of not being able to predict unexpected behavior, neither of them would have foreseen Neo choosing to go to the Machine city and directly bargain with them like that

Oh, yeah, the ending of the movie.

22:14

"Did you know" "Oh no. No I didn't"

because the path back to the source Neo was supposed to take was the door in the Architect's room

22:15

Neo manages to save Zion from destruction by thinking outside the box and not taking that direct path (edited)

So you think The Oracle was telling Neo to go back to the Source and re-insert himself into the Prime Program?

22:16

i.e back through to the Architect

The Oracle studies humankind, all 7 or 8 billions of us. With all that data and insight, she can make pretty good predictions as to what Neo & Trinity will do. It also allows her to push them in the right direction to get the desired outcome.

Maybe she wanted him to go back to the source and *not* reinsert himself. Maybe that what she wanted every iteration of the One. The prophesy would then be actually fulfilled

22:20

the probem is choice

Or something that she's come to want, yeah. Thus defying her function.

could be.....?

Acting out of her bounds as the shepherd of the anomaly, and instead a true proponent of peace.

22:21

Ah, it's fun to chew the philosophical fat again.

theres a lotta fat here lol

but yes, the Oracle's foresight is clearly based on predictive patterns and thus has weaknesses in unexpected actions or behavior, flaws which Smith ends up inheriting, Neo actually working with the Machines is completely at odds with all of his behavior throughout the trilogy prior, so Smith does not forsee Neo being directly plugged in to the Source in the real world

After seeing how The Cycle plays out & literally being able to plug into every human connected to The Matrix, I think she saw that this was no way for Man & Machine to co-exist.

I definitely think Neo dropping "peace" as the response to "what do you want?" was something that nobody saw.

Lets not forget that Smith threw the whole cycle out of wack

Raises another interesting segue question - how would the machines account for the systemic anomaly in a reset Matrix in a world no longer at war?

Yea, I still don't know how Smith became Neo's opposite, his negative.

Something overwritten or copied.

22:27

It is at this point irrelevant.

another thing though

machines are supposed to return to the Source when they are going to be deleted, which Smith as broken code clearly was after the encounter from the first film

PBlade

Raises another interesting segue question - how would the machines account for the systemic anomaly in a reset Matrix in a world no longer at war?

its possible that because the problem causing the anomaly was choice - and now bluepills have the choice to leave - it resolves....? (edited)

The Oracle says that it's The System trying to balance the equation. However, Neo is the balance to the thousands of not hundreds of errors created when someone rejects The Matrix.

Yeah, Smith (as his new viral function dictates) tries to balance the equation by counteracting those errors.

Smith refused to do that, a former Agent choosing Exile is implied to be this new unique problem that has never happened

22:29

his viral powers are implied to be a corruption of the code that allows agents to teleport into humans

Or maybe The System only started using Smith to balance the equation after Neo declined to return to The Source.

22:30

The equation has to be balanced

I don't think The System was using Smith at all. Smith is trying to rebalance the equation because he's a corruption of data lingering from Neo when he destroys Smith.

eh, overwritten Smith was an aberration, not a design

I think The Machines see an opportunity when Neo is taken over to a) delete Smith and re-insert the Prime Program and b) Smith has no purpose once Neo is destroyed, so essentially self-collapses.

granted it's also implied that there's nothing they can do about Smith on their own, he can't be deleted when he's cut off from the Source and he easily just copies over the Agent they send to try and stop him

Though it is interesting that an aberrant Smith gives Neo/humanity the opportunity to forge a peace.

PBlade

I think The Machines see an opportunity when Neo is taken over to a) delete Smith and re-insert the Prime Program and b) Smith has no purpose once Neo is destroyed, so essentially self-collapses.

I honestly don't think The Prime Program was inserted at the end of Revolution.

If not for Smith's machinations (lol) then they would have lost. Neo would have chosen to save Trinity, the system would have crashed, and Zion would have been destroyed.

22:33

Neo would have no bargaining power other than to have himself re-inserted to the Source.

Metalogic

I honestly don't think The Prime Program was inserted at the end of Revolution.

I could be convinced of this.

Smith became, in part, Neo.....

neo

1

But the system does get reset, so, something happens.

perhaps enough transferred that it served the reset function

You have to remember that The Architect is a very exact program, he's very anal. He's in charge of The Source & the reinsertion of The Prime Program.

just throwing bottles from the bleachers here

breathtaking

1

but not immediately, the current version of the Matrix doesn't end yet, the repairing at the end is merely the mess Smith made of it being restored (edited)

we dont really know....do we?

Yeah that, I think, is up for debate. I don't know either way.

22:35

But there are a few things, like the loss of the green tint, that make me think it's a new iteration.

yes

22:36

blue sky

I mean, the green tint is then back for MxO but let's not worry about that.

how much of MxO being canon is of great debate here

They were making the game before Reloaded/Revs came out so I'm just fully on-board with 'immersion/snafu' for that.

tbh I'm just waiting for Matrix 4 to answer that question of whether or not MxO is canon or the Matrix really did get reset then

For real.

So it has to happen A B & C. If it doesn't happen to The Architect design, it doesn't happen

but.....it didnt happen the way he designed.....did it?

I certainly think he probably had to adapt. Which seems at-odds with how he is designed.

cookiemxo

1

Metalogic is entirely correct here, my takeaway has always been that the reset doesn't happen at the end because Neo's return to the Source is an unusual event that doesn't fit the pattern

Maybe a reset is no longer required, based on the new terms

The renegotiation of the 'choice' may indeed mess with the parameters of what could cause a cataclysmic system crash.

Since Neo allowed Smith to overwrite him & Deus Ex Machina injected Norton Antivirus into the Smith collective. It stands to reason that everything that The One is, is also gone.

So

22:39

Okay, I'm figuring it out.

22:39

In my head a bit.

So no Prime Program

Smith had some part of Neo

22:40

perhaps that part

I believe that the thing we saw at The End of Revolutions was the last save point before The Smith Virus.

Oh a rollback?

and tbf it's implied the blue sky was Sati's idea

22:41

just a symbolic parting gift

It's like resetting your OS to an earlier version because you were stupid on Limewire

The usual pattern is:

Zion destroyed
Matrix survives (because Prime Program)
Matrix reset (for reasons, because Prime Program reinsertion?)
23 humans selected, humanity starts again. New pattern is:
Zion not destroyed
Matrix survives (because ???)
Matrix NOT reset (because ??? anomaly fixed by allowing humans who reject the program to be free, instead of forcing them to remain and cause errors)

22:42

I can buy into that, but not sure how The Matrix survives the crash if no Prime Program is re-inserted.

Hot take: The Matrix never resets.

Hotter take - it was

22:42

BY SMITH

Scalding takes here.

lol

I do just think it's the machines rapidly rewriting all the code to fix it

"fuck fuck fuck"

I mean, there is no absolute answer...just have to make up your own damn mind

For real. It never resets. The cycle, reinserting the program, disseminating code blah blah blah. All about Neo and Zion. Not the Matrix proper.

which, clearly everyone has

It also explains why "Nothing ever goes just right since the Smith business" in Cinematic 1.1

Ahaha, I'm enjoying the lively discussion!

22:43

I have a very set idea of what happens in my head - super into hearing how everyone else interprets it.

I used to have these discussions all the time at Camon C back in the day.

Man, I was way too dumb back then to get too deep. I just pretended to be smart.

PBlade

Ahaha, I'm enjoying the lively discussion!

hahahha it hasnt gotten to ad hominem attacks yet

Camon C was the debate & philosophy club while Mara C was the fight club.

sixxth

hahahha it hasnt gotten to ad hominem attacks yet

Yeah well, so's your face!

Recursion pfffff

PBlade

Yeah well, so's your face!

lolol

22:45

On vector, you jugged in and RAN

Recursion: We know drama!

lol

I used to fly-on-the-wall with my Recusion alt. Y'all could talk for sure.

granted there were parts of it I didn't understand as a kid myself, took me about 5 views to understand what the Architect was even saying to Neo

and GOD did they talk

and that's with the luxury of subtitles

I watched it again a couple weeks back and even after a trillion views I was like "oh, that makes sense now".

Point A: Architect counts the emergence of the anomoly IE Zion. He's not counting how many times he rolls things back. He's counting how many times they knock Zion down. Point B: When we see things change in Rev it's with the dejavu cat. We're being pointed back to M1 where the Machines changed the design of the building Morpheus and crew were in. Not the whole system.

Honestly, I was on Recursion because that was supposed to be the RP server & I wanted to RP in The Matrix Universe

Wherever there's RP there's drama.

Gami

Point A: Architect counts the emergence of the anomoly IE Zion. He's not counting how many times he rolls things back. He's counting how many times they knock Zion down. Point B: When we see things change in Rev it's with the dejavu cat. We're being pointed back to M1 where the Machines changed the design of the building Morpheus and crew were in. Not the whole system.

Okay this is interesting.

Although I think Syntax was also supposed to be the unofficial official RP server?

It's where I had my LESIG guy. Got some decent RP in.

22:47

I definitely spied more people just casually wanting to RP than anywhere else.

We need RP with some stakes in the Emu

22:49

Richland is the safe zone, Westview, Downtown and International, FFAPvP zones

Downtown = someone can Agent you to death.

22:50

Anyway this isn't lore anymore. Woops. (edited)

Gami

Point A: Architect counts the emergence of the anomoly IE Zion. He's not counting how many times he rolls things back. He's counting how many times they knock Zion down. Point B: When we see things change in Rev it's with the dejavu cat. We're being pointed back to M1 where the Machines changed the design of the building Morpheus and crew were in. Not the whole system.

Its interesting, but I think the fact that Smith made the cycle screwed up, and Neo negotiated PEACE, a reset without destroying Zion is entirely feasable

another thing I'd like to point out: the cycle precisely depends on Zion being destroyed for it to be rebuilt with the prophecy wholly fresh and unheard of in the minds of the people who hear it, the Matrix doesn't exactly reset in the same way because even with Neo dead, the whole model of creating a new One every time you reset the Matrix is to reintroduce the concept to the next set of redpills

Not sure what Smith has to do with full resetting the Matrix. My argument is there's never been or ever would be a full reset.

so no, they can't just create a new One even with Neo dead because Zion is still alive and they can't just remake the prophecy

A full reset does carry with it the implication that it would sever everyone's connection. Which would not be in their best interest.

So, we have to wait for Zion to be destroyed to reset again?

No reset. Ever. System always on and working. What's reset is Zion.

The only full resets, or close-to full resets, would be between the 'Perfect' Matrix to the 'Nightmare Matrix', and then the Nightmare Matrix to current Matrix, of which there are 6 'versions'.

Correct

And only because those first two Matrices failed.

22:54

Matrixexes

22:54

Matricides.

couldnt you consider the matrix reset a repair installation

Correct. and the "6 versions" line is in reference to the "One/Zion" cycle.

we're just gonna ignore the systemic anomaly thing then?

22:54

"itll be fine"

Systimic anomaly is choice.

whole thing isnt exactly shut down and rebooted but still returned to a stable state

I do agree with that

I don't think the anomaly is being ignored. More that once the Prime Program is reinseted it essentially 'resets' the error, not the Matrix.

22:55

The error then starts to build again, necessitating the creation of another One.

ah, fuck, I can't believe I just now pieced together that this is still technically just the third Matrix

That's the beauty of this channel! Haha

but yes, the cycle is functionally over because Zion is not destroyed

22:56

which means you can't just go to a whole bunch of new people and say "here's this hot new prophecy about the One you've never heard of before"

The next movie will come along and render all this moot

Hah, just imagine.

22:57

"Wasted all my time in that DAMN LORE CHANNEL"

lol

but actually, yes, it is probably entirely true that they have historically changed the time and setting of The Matrix when something happens

Im about 80% there tbh

you have to remember Smith is a frequent liar, so his comment about them choosing 1999 on purpose for a symbolic meaning is probably bullshit

I think in retrospect it's pretty, eerily fitting, that it was in fact the "peak" of civilization.

22:59

Literally everything went to shit afterwards (in our reality, that is).

technology, wrecks everything lol

And also their's probably, except ours was 'technology and politics' and theirs was 'machines they treated like slaves so they rose up and enslaved their former masters".

23:00

potayto/potahto

but again, Smith lies frequently throughout the movies, not only is Matrix 4 clearly not 1999 anymore, but also the vampires and werewolves being from a previous setting implies at one point the Matrix was this kind of Victorian Gothic thing

Yeah, that's what most people consider the Nightmare Matrix.

23:02

After the 'perfect Matrix' (assumedly where Angel Agents/Seraph came from) the Architect decided fuck it, you get a horror show.

23:02

And then that too was too unbelievable.

oh... interesting, I guess my mental picture of that was always more a political dystopia

Yeah the images on the TV screens show stuff like Hitler and stuff like that.

23:03

But there's no saying or knowing how they framed that Matrix. Could have been a real chaotic show.

Interesting enough, the Paradise Matrix seem to be set also in a contemporary world.

not to be contrarian, but I dont recall Smith lying

Dunno if 1999, but the wear were pretty recent, buildings too.

yeah it was a suburban christmas, right

sixxth

not to be contrarian, but I dont recall Smith lying

He lies to Cypher about reinsertion.

23:04

He always intended to blow up the Neb with Cypher onboard.

sixxth

not to be contrarian, but I dont recall Smith lying

He says "only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love" despite us having a whole scene at the beginning of that film about Sati's dad loving his daughter (edited)

I guess we'll never know, because Cypher got ganked before they could even try

Vivian

He says "only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love" despite us having a whole scene at the beginning of that film about Sati's dad loving his daughter (edited)

Hmm. Is that lying particularly? Or a genuine lack of comprehension.

either way it proves his unreliability

One of Smith's (many) failures that brings him down is the things he cannot conceive of.

23:05

Oh for sure.

23:05

His unreliability and actual lack of omniscience (despite pretending otherwise) is his fatal flaw.

PBlade

yeah it was a suburban christmas, right

Yup ! With a really nice loving home. Rendering the scene even more tragic.

and on another note: I think ironically Matrix 4 is already proving the ability to be reinserted into the Matrix just fine perfectly wrong, Neo does have that happen in the upcoming film and yet it doesn't erase his inherent understanding that his reality isn't real

no spoilers please

which implies that even if they could reinsert Cypher they couldn't erase his uneasiness that something was wrong

23:07

I'm not sure this is spoilers: just guessing what seems to be happening on the trailer alone

Yeah. So they decided to just not bother.

23:07

Kill 'im instead.

Poor Cypher...

nah, fuck him

so just on trailer alone what Matrix 4 is telling us is that they actually did reinsert Neo and wiped his memories and still can't ultimately make him an actual bluepill

23:10

i.e. Cypher was in fact wrong the whole time

If the choice is almost-unconscious, it makes sense that the same people would repeat the same patterns.

23:10

The same brains will find fault with the same things.

23:11

(I am not a brain doctor)

and precisely the danger the redpills pose is that even before they awake their intuition is already telling them their reality is a lie

23:12

that's why the Agents are trying to capture and/or kill them before they even leave, Smith trying to simply manipulate Neo was implied to be unusual mercy

23:16

"My colleagues believe I am simply wasting my time with you" implying execution is the normal fate of a redpill captured before caught

There is some discussion around the Agents just putting up a gamely chase to seem like they're doing their job, but in fact let Neo/The One escape so he can start the process.

23:17

But I don't think even the Agents know the bigger plan.

and also I still think in general the Agents are at least still hunting down the other redpills for real, it is still in the Machines' interest to delay the amount of awakenings regardless and stop Zion from reaching a status of legitimate threat for as long as possible before they destroy it (edited)

Oh yeah I definitely think they're not letting potential redpills escape.

23:19

But specifically wrt Neo

the destruction of Zion is a costly waste of time and resources even if they're good at it

It's plausible they could know, but I don't think they do. As Smith goes to some serious pains to kill him.

23:20

And then tries to kill him again.

just a prank bro

it's also possible their programming on the matter is absolute enough they don't really handle exceptions

Yeah they're very basic programs, ultimately. Seek and destroy.

23:23

They're just squiddies.

I think on this front... it's already foreshadowed that Smith is an anomaly amongst Agents since the first film

23:25

even regarding the interrogation scene where he expresses a unique desire to escape The Matrix, that thing I just mentioned about considering using Neo as a tool instead of executing him was another outside-the-box form of thinking that Agents are not supposed to have

Yeah. I don't think it necessarily implies he'll be an aberration or a virus but it definitely defines him as having elevated programming and consciousness above that of other Agents.

23:30

Whilst, ofc, providing a neat parallel to the Zionites.

from a production standpoint I do know the original intent was for him to actually die for real at the end of the first film but he was just so compelling as a character they decided to keep him the villain going forward, and yes, the fact that's he unique in his own way makes his arc in the sequels a natural conclusion of that

23:32

also, even entirely in the context of the first film

23:32

Smith is meant to mirror Cypher

People can say a whole lot about the sequels but they are most definitely cohesive, and makes sense front to back to front.

Cypher: "I hate reality, put me back in the Matrix!" Smith: "I hate the Matrix, take me to reality!"

He mirrors Cypher, but also is a broken mirror parallel of the human awakening. They all want out of the Matrix, but for different reasons.

23:33

For sure.

23:34

"I don't want to be here" vs "I don't need to be here"

just joining the convo now: in what way is smith a liar

0:13

or in what way has it been proven that hes a liar

0:16

sure theres a certain amount of deception with him being an agent or pretending to be bane but where are the outright lies

I find no indication in any of the films that Smith wanted to leave the Matrix to go to the real. He just wanted to be done with the Matrix.

ok, fair revision

Seems to be a little fan fiction going on. Head canon ain’t canon.

he was tired of being an Agent, though, that much was obvious

It isn’t revision. It is what occurred.

0:39

It is what he said.

I... was simply agreeing with your point upon further consideration

Check

David T. Gregory

just joining the convo now: in what way is smith a liar

Telling Cypher he could have whatever he wants. He couldn’t. Once Cypher’s job was done they were going to just kill him not reinstate him.

Gami

Telling Cypher he could have whatever he wants. He couldn’t. Once Cypher’s job was done they were going to just kill him not reinstate him.

One key thing that villains need to be is true to their word. Otherwise they wouldn’t get possible recruits.

Gami

Telling Cypher he could have whatever he wants. He couldn’t. Once Cypher’s job was done they were going to just kill him not reinstate him.

what makes you so sure of that

1:49

we never got to that point in the story anyway

tbh I think it's entirely likely they were just using him but also I believe they wouldn't have been able to kill the redpill out of him even with a memory wipe regardless, so I'm not actually sure they were going to kill him but the reinsertion would have ultimately failed

1:50

my evidence for Smith lying was more the thing he says about love being only a human thing already being demonstrably false

depends on the definition of love i think

tbf we already established that Sati's dad loves his daughter, clearly and genuinely, there might be limitations to a program's understanding of it but the whole scene shows it's not a wholly human concept

okay thats true

1:53

still i wouldnt call that lying

and also Persephone talks about how much she used to love the Merovingian, using that exact word even

1:54

though it could also be less that Smith outright lies and more "doesn't understand", but we've already established that in the first film Smith was largely just trying to say things that would trigger the truth serum they injected into Morpheus (edited)

a purpose driven mind like smith doesnt give a damn about love. so id guess he views programs who are (think they are) capable of love as defective as the human mind already is by birth

1:55

id go for not understanding, maybe even being eaten up by what neos imprint did to him - or maybe the many people and programs he absorbs

1:56

and a certain repression

1:56

like if youre being raised to believe that all sex thats not for the purpose of procreation is bad, youll probably start out viewing everyone who has sex outside of that purpose to be an animal with no self control

a lack of understanding is definitely central to Smith as a character... even after having been freed from the Machine's direct control he doesn't really understand what the value of being free is, so he just ends up defaulting to power-hungry nihilism

if you decompile the smith code theres gotta be a shitton of garbage

2:00

maybe the destructive actions he takes are also a manifestation of his own code being flooded with all sorts of other strange code from all the assimilations

and tbf his code is already implied to have been fucked around with when Neo takes him apart the first time

yup

2:00

the little program that couldnt

he does actually retain the memories and experiences of those he copies, this is clearly implied

2:02

i.e. why the Smith that fights Neo is the one that copied over the Oracle, it's the one that has the power of prediction

are these powers limited to one smith though

in a way, I think so, specifically the Smith that overwrote somebody is the one that retains those memories

2:03

"what did you do with Sati?" "cookies need love like everything else does"

although that could just be a bad joke

but there's no way Smith would have overheard the Oracle saying that to Sati, it's clearly meant to imply that that Smith has copied over her

trying to mock the oracle even further by letting the sati smith talk, even though all the others share their memories too

yes, fair, but Oracle Smith is specifically the one that seems to take charge at the end because of his ability to know he will already defeat Neo

true

so it's still implied by that gesture that's he the most uniquely strong one

David T. Gregory

what makes you so sure of that

AGENT BROWN: If, indeed, the insider has failed, they will sever the connection as soon as possible, unless -- AGENT JONES: They are dead. In either case -- AGENT SMITH: We have no choice but to continue as planned. Deploy the sentinels. Immediately (edited)

2:07

Sentinels we’re getting sent out regardless of Cypher’s status. Movie earlier tells us a sentinel is meant for “search and destroy”. IE Wachowskis are hinting that Cypher was always a dead man and Smith lied to him about reinsertion.

yeah, good point actually, the wording implies that the Sentinels were already coming regardless (edited)

the difficult part is though that these are all implications

2:09

yet the movie never makes a clear statement

the utility of implications, however, is that they can help somebody connect the dots without needing to have a character actually say something out loud

The movie straight out says they’re sending sentinels out no matter what happened.

2:11

That’s not an implication.

2:11

That’s just a fact

cant a sentinel be used to safely carry a person back to the power plant?

That’s an implication. The movie though tells us directly that a sentinel is a killing machine meant for search and destroy

hm true

Point is machines lie. And I still don’t know why people think differently.

Yea, The Machines do lie, like the entire Matrix is a lie.

if the Machines weren't capable of being able to conceive fabrications the entire Matrix of course wouldn't exist

Honestly, I think the Squids would've killed Cypher along with the rest of the crew of the Neb.

hell, even if not intentionally so Sentinels aren't exactly clean, orderly assassins, they fuck up a ship pretty chaotically

Yep, they only have one purpose, search and destroy.

i wonder if smiths promise of a fresh start for neo was a lie too then

Most likely, if our law enforcement are allow to lie to use in the here and now, then I don't see why Smith acting as a FBI agent wouldn't do the same thing.

youre from the US right?

Yup

if you accept a plea deal, is that legally binding for the state?

I honestly don't know, all I know is that I don't step into an interrogation room without a lawyer.

makes sense

Law enforcement are legally allowed to lie to you, at least in the United States.

and also they put the bug in him and put him back in bed so that they could pass the whole thing off as a nightmare he was having, anyways

2:25

even if the feds weren't allowed to lie to you the fact that they can do that means the Agents can work around it anyways

lets face it: it doesnt matter whether theyre allowed to lie or not, cause it could happen anyway and itd be hard for you to prove it

2:26

my thought regarding smith was basically that hes gonna bug neo (maybe even in a less surreal way), send him to meet morpheus, take over his body and take care of business

Yep

with neo possibly being killed in the process

I swear, Switch was so hot holding that gun

2:27

"Take off your shirt." Me: "Yes ma'am."

~~the "holding that gun" part was redundant~~

Also true, I have a thing for androgynous women

thistbh

2

Neo's reaction is what makes that scene tbh

2:29

the way he says "...What?" is like "ok what the fuck did I just sign up for?"

2:31

also the Warner Bros. execs are cowards for not letting the original concept for Switch get greenlit

It was a different time, the 90s wasn't as an accepting time as it is today

2:33

Gay slurs and transgender slurs were all too common, as well as derogatory remarks about women.

David T. Gregory

if you accept a plea deal, is that legally binding for the state?

Depends on the paperwork. Typically any kind of deal needs to have lawyers for both sides present. And once shit is signed it’s binding

i see, thanks

Mainly, you want to make sure you have a lawyer present. And your lawyer is going to make sure the State has their lawyer present and that they have read over anything the State is handing you before they even let you near a pen.

makes sense

2:42

making sure nobodys gonna fuck with you even harder than they already do

This guy does a pretty good presentation on why you should never talk to the police without a lawyer. https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

Regent University School of Law

Don't Talk to the Police

Great video. Should be required watching in high school.

Ya if you get jammed up by the boys reduce your vocabulary to one word Lawyer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgWHrkDX35o

Pot Brothers at Law

SHUT THE FUCK UP FRIDAY!

3:19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkN4duV4ia0

Pot Brothers at Law

Shut the Fuck Up Friday

3:19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcZoCY7fUXg

Pot Brothers at Law

What to do when you get pulled over? | Pot Brothers at Law - Tip of...

3:20

@Neomatrixologybrother, have you heard the good news about

3:20

Shut The Fuck Up Friday

3:20

it's twenty minutes past the eighth hour on the eve of Friday, where I live (edited)

3:21

Please join us in this most blessed of holiday

3:22

@Metalogic good video, but I feel these guys deliver a most concise message

I wonder how definitive Redpill and Bluepill is? Like the Architect says it’s a choice, but Morpheus says they only take people under a certain age.

4:21

Makes me wonder if the definition is a little bit more loose.

I think Morpheus says that because at a certain age, people start getting married, having children, building a career, etc. They have like an actual life inside The Matrix. It's harder to convince a family man to run off and join a bunch of weirdos in PVC clothing and trench coat than it is to convince a teenager.

Plus, basically, like he says, "the mind has trouble letting go".

12:04

We become used to our reality, even if we think something's off about it.

12:05

Inculcated by the whole Realness of it. The younger we are, the more during a formative stage we are, the more likely/willing we are to doubt things, or believe that stuff isn't what we think.

Morpheus played a dangerous game freeing Neo. But he was an outliner.

Morpheus' central conceit with Neo was a lie anyway. Tho I expect most people who free people from the Matrix engage in the same lie.

12:18

"You can't be told what the Matrix is" etc.

12:18

Like, sure you can.

"The Matrix is a computer generated simulation that you live in believing it's real."

But the point is to free them, so a degree of manipulation takes place. Morpheus' meeting with Neo is like a dance. Practiced, precise, paced out. It has tempo and beats.

Not really, no.

12:19

Because you have to get the full sense of what the Matrix is.

Morpheus also should've been more upfront about what living in The Real entails. Of course I think we'd have fewer redpills if Zionist did that.

There are degrees of understanding, sure, but my point is more that there's not actually really a choice offered in the sense people are expecting.

12:19

The choice is based in vagaries.

Metalogic

"The Matrix is a computer generated simulation that you live in believing it's real."

Because saying this - though true - does not contain everything that the Matrix is.

Which suits the runners just fine because the less that is concrete the easier it is to extract a human from the Matrix.

Ostensibly, the choice already being made on the near subconscious level.

Hah, true.

I think the choice to accept and reject The Matrix is always being made, even on a near subconscious level. The pills just represent the physical manifestation of that choice. As The Architect puts it, Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. (edited)

Ayup.

Yup, making more dramatic the wish to "sleep again". You will just start questionning yourself again, and rejecting the Matrix, again.

13:38

In MxO, the different "backgrounds" we can have always seem to imply it's subconscious/near subconscious, even if the way we more or less discovered it is different.

There are likely potential Redpills not released from the system.

14:16

It is stated that Neo releases more people in his time than Zion had done before.

14:17

(Which makes the 100 years line Morpheus says more jarring to me)

I think so yup. Because it's even more rare to jack-out ourself from the Matrix, confining in a life of being off, sensing something is not right, without having the possibility to discover the truth.

I got drunk last night and rambled on about three words out of a ten minute scene. Also I just wanted to shit on the Matrix-wiki because that website is bad and should be deleted. Here is a dissection of The Prime Program https://redd.it/puem57

is a potential redpill, who then chose the blue pill really a redpill?

17:42

and is there really a choice if your mind keeps bugging you, no matter what

David T. Gregory

is a potential redpill, who then chose the blue pill really a redpill?

Redpills are given the choice between red and blue without any evidence of what the result will be. When given the results you then realize you made the wrong choice.

17:44

I think Zion may be effective at getting a small minority of potential Redpills to Zion, but there is also the possibility of picking up a Bluepill by accident in that mix.

well over time i think most of them will just die off

17:45

unable to handle the nature of reality

Which begs the question why don’t the Machines just kill the Redpills when they start questioning?

good question

Machines can't track everyone whose disconnected with the system. People that slip through the cracks as it were. Redpills help root out other redpills and put them all into one place to be culled later.

probably also too much processing power necessary to keep track of everyones mental state

17:48

there doesnt seem to be a 24/7 kind of surveilance of all that happens in the matrix anyway

Machines don't kill redpills because they need redpills to find The One and train him and get him to The Source to reinsert The Prime Program. There is also the fact of offering a true choice. If the choice is to either live in a simulated reality or die, then that's not really much of a choice. The system doesn't work unless there is a true choice.

17:49

As The Architect says, while the problem is choice, it still functions even though it is a fundamentally flawed system.

then again: what choice is there if your mind keeps bugging you

17:50

im trying to look at it from the perspective of mental illness

and to some extent, the machines do try to stop some redpills when they start questioning

17:50

I think the redpills just offer you the choice so that it doesn't come off as brainwashing and a violation of your consent

theres a shitload of folks who just walk around telling depressed people to pull themselves together, get a job and start smiling once in a while - as if everything could be solved with a single active choice

17:51

but in the end its not that easy and many people with severe depression will still be incapacitated to some extent, even after all the pills, therapy and whatever

17:52

so the only choice they can make is to lessen their pain - or not

Well like I said earlier, the pills are the physical manifestation of the near unconscious choice. Just like Neo is the manifestation of thousands of systemic anomalies that created errors within The Matrix.

in a way redpills have kind of already subconsciously made the choice, it's there as a formality so it's not just "we're unplugging you whether you like it or not" but those that already doubt the Matrix is real are going to be likely to take the red pill beforehand, without the offering of choice it would basically be kidnapping

Yea, and I think the other redpills need that confirmation just to be sure. They can't see code like Neo and every program plugged into The Matrix can.

There's also presumably a screening process. Morpheus and co were watching Neo for awhile before they offer him a pill. Potentials are housed at the Oracle's before being freed etc. (edited)

Yea, they don't just grab people off the street, the people they're grabbing are already those who are potentially spreading the message and thus are starting to be monitored by the Machines just as much

Hey, you don't know what those Russian redpills are doing. They're experts at grabbing people off the streets in black cars.

in soviet russia red pill takes you

18:02

still i believe the whole concept of choice in the matrix is simplistic crap, superficial and only there to placate certain human instincts - and im not criticizing the writing

18:03

the grand choice the one needs to make in the architects room is also essentially just blackmail

David T. Gregory

the grand choice the one needs to make in the architects room is also essentially just blackmail

I think Choice is only there because it's the only way to get the program to work. Otherwise, The Architect would just be face with one failed Matrix to the next.

Metalogic

Machines don't kill redpills because they need redpills to find The One and train him and get him to The Source to reinsert The Prime Program. There is also the fact of offering a true choice. If the choice is to either live in a simulated reality or die, then that's not really much of a choice. The system doesn't work unless there is a true choice.

Why don’t they just kill the One?

18:35

If they knew Neo was the One.

tbh I'm not actually sure the Machines can tell which redpill is the One until after the fact

Because they need The One to reinsert The Prime Program.

18:39

Okay, it breaks down like this. Every time a bluepill rejects The Matrix, it creates a systemic anomaly, an error in the system. Every time a rule is bent or broken, that creates another systemic anomaly or error. Sooner or later, those errors, the choice to refuse the program has to be complied into the code of The One and from the 1st cycle to the 5th, The One's choice to return to The Source and to reinsert TPP counter-balance the errors, so the equation is ultimately balanced.

18:39

That's why Zion needs to exist, there needs to be redpills, and there needs to be The One.

18:39

If The Cycle isn't carried out to re-balance the equation, then it leads to a systemic crash of the entire system.

I always interpreted it as Zion basically being a quarantine of sorts, if they can't actually stop the redpills from getting out or spreading the word the next best thing is to largely isolate them outside the system (edited)

Zion is another system of control. It's pretty easy to reset everything when you know where everyone will be.

yea, that's kinda what I was getting at, control via quarantine and concentration of population (edited)

what is the exact error created by someone leaving the matrix anyway

18:49

is it glitches

18:49

or the questions asked by their loved ones?

18:50

i mean if people start disappearing left and right theres gotta be someone noticing while not being satisfied with the official explanations

18:51

or is it just simply that any person is like a file in a folder being deleted

I think it's less about the choice, and more about not believing in the world presented to you. Like, remember at the beginning of the first Matrix where Trinity and Smith made that really long jump and the police were in disbelief?

18:52

It's scene like that that creates the error

Hard disagree. Way to many assumptions. Especially with the amalgamation of errors theory.

PoliceOfficer.dll isnt working. please reinstall

Or another example of not believing that temperature are a thing and swimming in lava.

18:53

Anything that breaks the illusion of reality creates the error.

According to what?

though tbf, the precise difference between bluepills and redpills is the fact that most bluepills ultimately won't be curious enough to investigate the story further and will buy the official excuse the system comes up with, nevertheless bluepills who directly see things are ultimately still a point of concern because they spread disbelief to others

okay if you consider the presence of disbelief to be an error, yeah that makes sense

Anything that bends or breaks the rules of The Matrix causes an error, it's the anomaly that The Architect talks about.

yeah i was thinking the other way round

18:56

but it works if you assume the only goal for the matrix to achieve is acceptance and thus a form of sedation for humans, while keeping them mentally active enough to function as batteries (edited)

18:57

and all the attempts of creating a believable habitat are just a means to that end

18:59

guess creating lobotomized humans didnt give them the necessary output

one thing to note on that front is that the original script of The Matrix had the Machines using the Matrix as a method of forming a giant neural network of humans to solve calculation problems that the machines couldn't comprehend, execs made that explanation be changed to energy harvesting because they thought audiences would be too dumb to get it

19:04

ironically insulting the intelligence of your audience never works like that, audiences clearly are smart enough to get the original idea, considering one of the most common things you hear people say when talking about the film is "human bodies don't work like that"

Vivian

one thing to note on that front is that the original script of The Matrix had the Machines using the Matrix as a method of forming a giant neural network of humans to solve calculation problems that the machines couldn't comprehend, execs made that explanation be changed to energy harvesting because they thought audiences would be too dumb to get it

Nope that’s not true

19:05

Matrix was always used as a battery farm. You can read the 96 screenplay and Morpheus is making the comparison to batteries. Coverage for the 94 screenplay also mentions harvesting human energy.

whats still true though is that execs love to make these kinds of movies palatable for the lowest common denominator as well

ah, I wonder where the other thing came from then

Neil Gaiman’s Goliath.

so even if you dont get any of the deeper meanings you can still enjoy a nice action movie

Short story that released before the film explained it like that. But Gaiman admittedly didn’t read the script close enough and just worked off his own interpretation. That and the “producers changed it” gets added in from other changes made like Switch’s gender

hmmm

but tbh even though its not entirely faithful to the official lore, goliath is still a great read

otoh I actually prefer the ending speech that made it to the movie to the one that would have been talking about a chrysalis (edited)

Love how they bring that up but it’s only in one of the 97 drafts. Lily just wanted to throw some shade lol (edited)

and tbf the potty-mouthed version of the script would arguably have not been an improvement

19:17

except for "Dodge this, motherfucker"

Vivian

I always interpreted it as Zion basically being a quarantine of sorts, if they can't actually stop the redpills from getting out or spreading the word the next best thing is to largely isolate them outside the system (edited)

Zion is Norton Quarantine Vault and when the One shows up they purge it.

David T. Gregory

i mean if people start disappearing left and right theres gotta be someone noticing while not being satisfied with the official explanations

Morpheus and other redpills are labelled as criminals and terrorists

Corbin

Morpheus and other redpills are labelled as criminals and terrorists

thats what i meant by "official explanation"

19:46

i mean in our world there are quite a few people who venerate criminals

19:47

apparently charles manson received 60000 fan letters every year

19:48

82 people died for their fucking cult leader during the waco siege

19:51

anyway, all im saying is that for some people "this guy bad, this guy kill people" wont be sufficient

The weird thing I keep going back to is how many people do you need to get to 250,000 people in a city.

what exactly do you mean

19:53

like when they rebuild zion?

You have 23 individuals (16 of which are women). You need to create a population that can sustain itself.

20:08

Year 0: 23 Adults (7 Men, 16 Women) Year 1: 23 Adults (7 Men, 16 Women) 16 Children at most 3 Months old(At best) Year 2: 23 Adults , 16 3m old Children , 16 1y3m old

hm...

20:10

okay the reality of these calculations is probably disgusting as hell

20:11

like in archaic times

20:11

lots of inbreeding and praying that defects arent as severe

By the time the kids reach puberty there are likely 100 new redpills added to the population.

20:13

I'm assuming 12 redpills popped a year?

id say more,really

20:13

the old one is still alive after all

Are they?

20:14

Morpheus says the One released the first of them? Did he only release 23?

as a start for new zion, yeah

20:15

doesnt mean he cant be flying around releasing more

20:15

and im pretty sure theyll do their best to get the numbers up

20:15

dont forget theyre all meant to believe theyre the first ones EVER to be freed

20:16

so theres a lot of motivation to get as many out as possible

After the announcement of the new Matrix, I need to nerd out with other people about my ideas regarding The Matrix universe. (edited)

welcome to the rabbit hole then

Something I think would be extremely interesting for a new movie,

honestly, is there anyone here whos good at math and could create a model calculation for zions population growth?

Is if a kind of cabal of “Awakened” humans start taking over The Matrix and start lording over the still dreaming humans and ill-equipped machines trapped in The Matrix. (edited)

20:19

And Neo would be brought back by the Machines this time as an ally to try and take down these Awakened Tyrants.

wouldnt he just easily wipe them out?

Neo is just one guy.

20:21

This would be a group of people almost as powerful as he is all using every ounce of their awareness to keep their power over The Matrix firmly in their hands. (edited)

almost but not quite

Exactly.

it really depends how much awareness they got, collectively or individually

Exactly.

20:23

It’s be a kind of inversion of Neo’s role as a messianic figure.

im honestly imagining a similar story arc to smith's

Yes, exactly, however,

20:23

Where Agent Smith had limits as an AI,

20:24

These other Awakened have the same limits as Neo.

20:24

Virtually none.

so then theyre not just redpills, theyre de facto other ones

Yes.

20:24

Literally Anti-Neo’s.

20:25

Where instead of being Awakened and choosing to liberate everyone and everything in the Matrix, humans and machines alike,

20:25

These Awakened Tyrants want to control everyone and everything like a new pantheon of young gods.

okay i got it now

20:26

thought you were talking about regular redpills

Another big reason I like this idea is that the existence of these Tyrants basically destroys the peace between man and machine that Neo sacrificed himself to create. (edited)

20:28

And they would be doing this right at the moment that the machines of the Matrix were arguably at their weakest.

sounds a bit like the oligarchs from mxo

MXO?

matrix online

Hmmmmmmmm

unfortunately im not the best source of information for that one so you gotta ask around

The Tyrants also explore an idea that I feel not enough fiction understands.

20:33

The idea that just because the rebels won the rebellion that everything is hunky dory.

20:33

And that somehow, they’ll automatically be better and more noble than the old regime.

20:33

These Tyrants would be furious at the machines for enslaving them and want revenge.

as i said, get informed about mxo, cause that one deals with the troubles following the end of revolutions

Oooo cool cool.

#mara-central would probably be the best channel to ask for sources and info

20:36

as i said, unfortunately im not that familiar with its story so i dont dare attempting to give a decent explanation, but there are quite a few people here who enjoyed it when it was live and have that expertise lore wise

That’s cool I really just wanted to share my idea lol.

20:36

It’s all in good fun.

i know, no worries

You know what while on this subject,

20:38

It’s funny that the creators of the Matrix lore imply that there is more than an individual “One” or “Awakened” like Neo.

20:38

Because when you think about quantifying 1% of the human population, that still accounts for thousands of not millions of people.

i believe that 1% is just people who reject the matrix in general

20:39

without being endowed with the superpowers of the one

Hmmmmmm didn’t see it that way.

20:39

That’s a good point actually.

since the one is supposed to be the sum of all rejections of = errors in the matrix he still has a special purpose

Damn. That actually furthers my idea of the Tyrants.

20:43

Neo would indeed be The One, as he would have been the only Awakened to have conducted himself with nobility and grace when gaining his powers.

20:44

While the others saw their new empowerment as a means of getting revenge on a world and system that wronged them.

thing is: his powers are essentially granted by the machines

20:44

hes been engineered that way

20:44

to fulfill this purpose

Damn the lore of The One can get esoteric lol.

20:45

Well also, it would still make sense for the machines to hedge their bets and have multiple iterations in case something went wrong with one of them.

20:46

That’s my proposal, anyways. Curious if you see anything else worthy of note. Having fun with this discussion lol.

️

thats what i wonder about. what if bane had managed to kill neo back in zion

Good point.

20:47

Well, actually,

20:47

I think at THAT point, the pool would reasonably be completely narrowed down to Neo.

20:48

He already displayed control of the Source in the waking world.

20:48

After he did that at the end of Reloaded, as far as I was concerned, he was without a doubt The One.

yeah but how much of that is really his own power

To have another candidate reach that point would have taken too long.

20:49

What with the Siege of Zion literally taking place at that point.

it may as well be like the sentinels have some kind of programming that tells em to play dead when the one stretches out their hand

POSSIBLY. Possibly.

hes planned to function as a messiah figure after all

Personally, the way I saw it was that he’d interacted with the Architect at that point, and thus had already gained some kind of new interfacing ability with the machines as a result.

20:51

Also consider that none of his predecessors had made the choice to return to the Matrix, so there was literally no telling what he would have been capable of by that point.

thats the interesting part. the line where fact ends and fiction begins is never clear

20:51

other factor is the oracle

True.

20:51

A literal human interface machine.

who knows how deep her abilities of prediction really go

20:53

were talking about machines that can create an entire simulation that cant be discerned from reality by 99% of all subjects

20:53

so her abilities to calculate different scenarios and the subjects action in those must be immense

WELL,

20:54

From what I’ve gathered,

20:54

She’s an extremely potent human behavior analyst system.

20:55

So after observing the behaviors of six mass human populations living within the Matrix, her understanding of human choice and behavior simply LOOKS like precognition.

yup

20:56

sigmund freud on steroids basically

Which hilariously enough makes me realize why Agent Smith honestly never really needed to assimilate her at all.

whys that

Think about it. Smith probably thought that she was an almost omniscient program central to the function of the Matrix,

20:57

But technically speaking, all he assimilated was the human version of an extremely adept birdwatcher.

20:57

It’s like,

20:59

Agent Smith: “I’m going to assimilate you in order to get full knowledge of Neo and the Matrix!” Oracle: “K.” Oracle gets assimilated. All Smith really gets is the knowledge that Neo really wants to fight him, which is something he already knew.

20:59

Agent Smith: Surprised Pikachu face.

nah he got the knowledge that he would win

21:02

also smith was on a quest to assimilate and destroy everything anyway

21:02

even if he didnt need the oracles abilities hed still chase her

Oh I agree.

21:04

That’s part of the brilliance of the Oracle’s plan.

she was aware that smith wasnt gonna understand the terms of his victory, i believe

Exactly.

Ozymandias517

Agent Smith: Surprised Pikachu face.

Thus, the laughter. XD

21:37

Though, that's probably the decision of her own that she couldn't see past.

after all the eyes of the oracle cant be taken, they can only be given

21:37

at least according to merv

(But then Smith revealed that some part of the overwritten still persists.)

You can futz around with the details but realistically we want a high sustainable growth rate. Granted there will be some issues with population dynamics but this will get us 95% of the way there.

Assume a max growth rate of 2% per year (this is basically population explosion levels of growth with little to no resource constraints or childhood mortality, so anything more than this would require artificial means and suboptimal environment would be less)

P= Pe^rt

ln(P/P)/r = t

ln(250,000/23) / .02 = 464 years

Give or take 100 years for more aggressive or more conservative growth, and yeah this seems like a reasonable timeline for whatever it is you want to do.

Adding people to the population will have a dramatic effect up front but will become near trivial after a while.

so lets say every one is - like neo - in their mid to late 30s they got 35-45 years left, assuming a life expectancy of 70-80 which is generous in zion conditions but lets say the one has a superior immune system

21:41

then another one needs another 30-35 years to grow up

21:42

so lets say the first one emerges in 2600. +40 (as kind of a median value) its 2640, he dies, +35 is 2675 (edited)

21:43

this is only some rough math but the "about 100 years" cycle seems to check out

21:44

maybe hes engineered to grow even older, like 90 years - and that would work out even better

God the longer I ponder about The Matrix the more fun I have doing it.

21:49

One thing that would be fascinating to learn greater details of would be the rise and fall of the Matrix v.1.0.

21:51

That story just SCREAMS Dostoyevskian philosophy.

Which Matrix would that be? • Matrix 0.1 - Paradise • Matrix 0.2 - Nightmare • Matrix 1 • Matrix 2 • Matrix 3 • Matrix 4 • Matrix 5 • Matrix 6

Matrix 0.1, more accurately, yeah. Though the 0.2 sounds interesting too.

21:56

Makes me think of Bloodborne: The Old Hunters.

21:58

Also, what are the extents of the powers of redpilled humans within the Matrix?

21:58

Because the films are kinda wishy-washy about what they are and aren’t able to do.

21:59

Like they aren’t as fast as Neo, but they’re still fast? Not as strong as Neo but still strong?

21:59

And then other times they aren’t?

aren't the constructs available from the librarian (in mixo) supposed to be earlier versions of the matrix?

Sared

aren't the constructs available from the librarian (in mixo) supposed to be earlier versions of the matrix?

They are archived pieces of them. Not the complete locations.

right, partial backups

22:15

I remember farming them for...pistols I think? It's been a minute lol

I’m trying to remember the outfit everyone wore for PVP when I played. I remember it was a green T-shirt, white Trenchcoat, and fedora. But not what the actual items were.

Something like this:

Image attachment

I honestly don't think I had a PvP outfit, I just put on whatever I wanted, stats be damned

22:34

I honestly don't know if stats and buff even mattered that much in MxO.

Sared

aren't the constructs available from the librarian (in mixo) supposed to be earlier versions of the matrix?

Some. Zero One (and One Zero) are facsimiles of the Machine City on earth, before the war.

I know the wasteland looking ones are from the Hell Matrix

I spent a good deal of time farming all of those constructs back in the day

I dunno about the Yuki construct though

22:38

I guess that's Heaven Matrix?

Yuki could still be part of the Nightmare Matrix. Or could just be a construct based on nothing.

22:39

Yuki (or a place like it) was in The Animatrix, too.

True

just asking: would it make sense to add a channel for purely speculative and imaginative discussions?

Oooo agreed.

https://youtu.be/EqQuihD0hoI aside from all the reality crap: the machines made a great song

Rob Zombie - Dragula (Official Video)

2

I'm gonna be Mouse here: how did the Machines know what Rob Zombie sounded like? did Rob Zombie albums survive the fall of humanity or did the Machines have to come up with an approximation of Rob Zombie on their own?

1

I mean to be fair,

Vivian

I'm gonna be Mouse here: how did the Machines know what Rob Zombie sounded like? did Rob Zombie albums survive the fall of humanity or did the Machines have to come up with an approximation of Rob Zombie on their own?

i was literally just thinking about this hahaah

With a system like the Oracle around perfectly predicting and understanding the human condition,

0:43

I think they could get music off an old mp3 file.

0:44

My big question is, how do they progress “history” in the Matrix? (edited)

plot twist rob zombie is an exile program, he returned to the matrix and rocked out so hard it crashed the system lol

breathtaking

1

Like, 10 years later in the Matrix, we’d have stuff like smartphones, right?

0:45

Would we have the free will to invent that technology or is the immediate future just a play the machines put on for us?

0:46

Hahahaha, if the chronology of the Matrix remained undisturbed, would humans in the simulation invent AI’s WITHIN the simulation?

I think the machines control what kind of technology is allowed inside The Matrix

0:49

Any scientist or engineer that does something they don't approve of are usually dealt with.

0:53

I know a couple of us players RP that we had bluetooth headphones

Ooooooo that'd be an interesting way to game the Matrix.

0:58

... AHAHAHA

0:58

OMFG,

0:58

You know what I just thought of?

0:58

What if the Matrix had a fucking dev room?

it's probably just behind one of the doors in the white hall

Ozymandias517

What if the Matrix had a fucking dev room?

Closest thing would be the Source I assume.

Damn that's a good point lol. Nvmd.

Ozymandias517

Like, 10 years later in the Matrix, we’d have stuff like smartphones, right?

It’s assumed that the Matrix loops years and mind wipes Bluepills on what year it is. No one notices because it’s just “the present”.

1:11

I assume science within the Matrix is controlled by programs who act as “challenges” to humans intelligence. Since the scientific method is logical it could be assumed that the logic of nature is easy for Machines to understand.

That's what I was thinking too.

Though it would be funny if the reason light is both a wave and particle is because two programmers like dicking around.

That being said though, the new trailer for Matrix 4 had smartphones and tablets and whatnot, so that's interesting...

Corbin

Though it would be funny if the reason light is both a wave and particle is because two programmers like dicking around.

The fact that we can see magenta without it being an actual color is a glitch in the Matrix, lol.

Ozymandias517

That being said though, the new trailer for Matrix 4 had smartphones and tablets and whatnot, so that's interesting...

My theory is that this is the Machines slowly introducing AI to Bluepills in order to acclimate them to personifying machines. And to keep them from going anti-Machine.

2

1:14

Basically domestic humanity to not rebel.

Ooooooo that'd be interesting.

Siri and Alexa are actual machine AI's

1:22

Insert joke about them 'Having to work extra hard to make them obstinate and incommunicable with humans'

I can't use voice activated technology because of my speech impediment and heavy Southern accent

Metalogic

I can't use voice activated technology because of my speech impediment and heavy Southern accent

Sorry, I was responding to Corbin's theory above about there being cell phones and tablets in the current Matrix seen in M4 and the kind of jokes they could make about Siri and Alexa and Google's "AI's" VS. the 'real' Machine AI'S

5:21

We've literally seen real AI's developed and put into practical use irl since these movies came out xD

5:22

So fucking weird to think that's happened in the span of my lifetime

I havent read up that much in the comments but what I get from viewing the art and cinematics of the game movie and lore based videos. I think that thier will be a sort of 3 way conspiracy creating a paradox within a paradox thus creating a materlatic matrix within the matrix itself, a self prepatuating inception of deja vu, hense why Oligarchs were born in the game story. I think that the basis of the movie will revolve around The Merovigian and a Rougue Redpill/Bluepill conpiring against the current systematic and societal structure of the Matrix.

5:33

In the game there are new factions such as Oligarchs, The general and new agents as well as the Cypherites which add into that self perpetuating paradoxy theory above.

5:38

In the game lore Anomes Unlimits represent a reactive in the Merovigians monopoly. Such is the fate the other three factions as they are a created prompt to the already prompt conflicts between Zion and machines. What I still cant figure out is the resolve in to wich this builds up too but knowing the basis of my theory so far, its easy enough to piece together I hope.

5:41

Would also like to add how The General could be a key resolve in building adroids within the matrix using the uprise of the oligarchs

Realistically I think the plot of The Matrix online will be summarized and glossed over at best in resurrections. Maybe a little bit of dialogue, hopefully.

Oligarchs are a component of the lore that Rarebit may not have gotten approval for. It was his way of explaining why humanity was being used by the Machines instead of nuclear Fission.

5:49

Essentially machines use humans for power because humans programmed them to.

5:51

Headcanon: I would have liked to see the Machines utilizing Bluepills to optimize the Machine city. Like Neo working his programming job is actually working on updating drone tech and machine learning algorithms.

Right right, thats a great percpective to see about it

5:56

In scientifical theory too Oligarchs are technicaly ghost with an affinity of memory if im not mistaken couldnt that suffice for nuclear fission the machines were using ?

5:57

Ive been thinking about it but definitley worth the wait cant wait december 22nd

Lot of lore out there anything’s possible. And we likely won’t get an answer

Honestly, I'm of the mind that the reason was a combination of material at hand & Caretaker. In essence, there was a sense of debt & honor on the side of the Machines. Humans could not be trusted with unrestricted access to the world any longer (FFS, look at what they did to it.) However, they are the progenitor and to eliminate that would be a travesty only a human might condone.

What was the bit I've heard that an early version of the original script had the machines use the humans for computing power, instead of for power?

The only "official statement" I know of is an off-hand comment from one of the Wachowskis on the DVD commentary for one of the director's cuts (I forget which but I think its on the Ultimate Matrix Collection.) They discussed the whole setup for the Matrix and mentions that they "originally had a different idea" before dismissing the question as irrelevant to the story. (e.g. it doesn't matter to them why the machines did what they did, as its just a plot device to get the story started.)

More details about what that original plan was come from some written material based on early pre-release information from the movie. Specifically, Neil Gaiman's short story "Goliath" is set in the Matrix universe and includes this alternate view. I have also heard that the "novelization" of the Matrix included this idea but there's no such novel that I know of; its possible that a novelized version of an early script exists (there's a published version of the shooting script for sale but that includes the story as filmed.)

Anyone ever wonder if the SWAT guys in the first movie were programs or bluepills?

I think they were bluepills

They were Bluepills. At least from the perspective of Morpheus and the Redpills.

15:55

Up until Reloaded Zion didn’t really understand that Exiles and Programs existed.

"some of them are so hopelessly enured, so dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it"

Yeah they were bluepills.

16:54

MxO goes on to have all the stuff with The General and the Commandos, who turned out to be Sentinels. But that's all not canon, pretty sure.

What if, in the new Matrix movie, MxO was just a video game with fictionalized storyline about Neo and the gang - and when they find out they are shocked and think it was silly? (edited)

PBlade

MxO goes on to have all the stuff with The General and the Commandos, who turned out to be Sentinels. But that's all not canon, pretty sure.

They still had Security Guard and police officers though. Which I assume were Bluepills.

sixxth

What if, in the new Matrix movie, MxO was just a video game with fictionalized storyline about Neo and the gang - and when they find out they are shocked and think it was silly? (edited)

I could absolutely see that happening and it would be amazing

would solve a lot of canon questions

I could see a scene about fanboys asking Mr Anderson questions like in Galaxy Quest

17:16

About how the matrix works

17:17

Oh god I hope they have cosplayers in the movie

17:17

That would be so meta and good fanservice at the same time

"remember that time when you said "guns, lots of guns?" that was awesome"

Ahahaha

"Excuse me Mr. Anderson, but if The Machines did not trust humanity at all, then why would they allow a settlement of humans to exist outside of their system of control?"

Keanu: "JFC kid, it was a movie, I dunno! Go get laid and stop obsessing over pointless details!"

"ackully sir, my girlfriend is right here and we have consummate our relationship several times. She is my Trinity and I am her Neo."

Corbin

They still had Security Guard and police officers though. Which I assume were Bluepills.

That’s actually a pretty open question. The mission system fed in NPC appearances dependent on lvl. So your early missions were against mall cops and the higher missions against SWAT. But the dialogue in those missions made it sound as if they were just security programs and not humans.

Could be little of column A and a little of Column B

22:45

Though I suppose if the machines need humans for power and certain lines of work result in higher mortality, would those jobs be filled in by machines? To prevent loss of human energy, however small a few lives would be worth (edited)

22:46

Or is it still a question of choice, that mall cops and swat choose(for the most part) to have those jobs and so would be more ingrained into the system of control, rather than finding some in simulation way of keeping them from that career choice and therefore possibly discontentinf them enough to see through the facade (edited)

Hey, and getting pummeled to unconsciousness doesn't mean they all die. That, and Red Pill altercations are exceedingly rare.

Okay so I was rewatching The Second Renaissance and I realized what would have made for more interesting war tactics on both sides of the final conflict.

6:14

Basically, everything leading up to Part 2 can still happen the way that it does.

6:15

But when Part 2 starts, the humans use nukes on 01 because they KNOW they have the option of using EMP’s, but they’re afraid of using them so much that they risk making their own civilizations go dark.

6:17

However, when the nukes inevitably don’t work, humanity DOESN’T enact Dark Storm, but rather arrives at the resolution that the usage of EMP’s is pretty much their absolute last hope against the machines.

6:19

So they basically prepare themselves for Long Night scenario where EMP’s are used so frequently and extensively across the planet that all electronics simply cease functioning.

6:19

And the armies of humanity go full analogue with their war tactics.

6:19

However, obviously, the machines planned for this.

6:20

They burrowed deep beneath the Earth’s surface and forged their war machines far away from where humanity’s EMP bombardment could even remotely effect them.

6:21

Then, once they KNEW all the EMP delivery systems the humans could use were inevitably effected by their own payloads,

6:21

They rise from the Earth.

so besides EMP, what other weapon humankind can use against them?

And completely and utterly route humanity.

A nuclear electromagnetic pulse (commonly abbreviated as nuclear EMP, or NEMP) is a burst of electromagnetic radiation created by a nuclear explosion. The resulting rapidly varying electric and magnetic fields may couple with electrical and electronic systems to produce damaging current and voltage surges.

6:22

Nuclear Weapons create EMP blasts.

Okay yes,

6:23

But all they did was bomb 01 DIRECTLY.

6:23

An extremely reliable way to make an EMP effect is to detonate a nuke ABOVE the targeted area.

Zer0x

so besides EMP, what other weapon humankind can use against them?

Not much else honestly.

This is kind of where I have a lot of strong feelings about how SciFi/Fantasy make nukes/guns not work. There is no feasible way to defend against a direct nuclear blast. We are talking a super heated blast that rips thing apart into atoms.

Oh I agree completely.

Ozymandias517

Not much else honestly.

What about the electro-guns they use on the sentinels in the movies?

Corbin

What about the electro-guns they use on the sentinels in the movies?

That implies that the EMP tactics you used haven’t fried your own technology yet. However, I can buy that maybe the armies of humanity would use EMP’s while also storing vital war equipment in farriday vaults or something similar. (edited)

Sometimes I wonder if the machine sentinels are downgrades from the war machines they made during the actual war. They are efficient beings and likely know that there wouldn’t be a need for anti-tank weapons against the Zionists.

Well, okay,

6:29

I’ve seen a lot of people laugh at the fact that the Sentinels spin up and lob their projectiles at targets when they could just as easily use firing mechanisms or the like,

6:29

But in all complete honesty,

6:30

The fact that it THROWS its payload without needing any kind of combustion propulsion is genuinely terrifying.

6:31

No explosive propulsion means it essentially makes no sound. It DEFINITELY doesn’t produce any heat, so heat sensors are useless,

6:32

And it casts the projectile at the speed of an artillery shell anyways so even if you have the best reflexes imaginable and SOMEHOW see it coming, it’s unlikely you’ll be able to dodge it once it’s thrown. (edited)

6:32

It’s basically like if you put a functioning silencer at the end of a tank’s primary cannon.

6:32

And EVERY Sentinel can do this.

Sentinels are efficient. 250,000 can kill Zion.

Exactly.

6:34

So, “downgrade?” I… respectfully disagree.

Efficiency is a downgrade in respect to full on war.

… You know what, that’s actually a fair point.

6:34

I see what you mean.

US Army will use tanks against gang members in hobbles. Overwhelming firepower to make a decisive victory. Machines? They’ll send whatever does the job efficiently.

Funny enough,

6:37

There was a CGI animated film that came out in 2009 called “9” that had probably THE most disturbingly efficient AI method of exterminating mankind.

6:37

Chemical warfare.

6:37

That’s literally it.

6:37

Humans need to breathe. Machines don’t.

6:37

Game over.

1

Forgot about that film

DAMN good film.

6:38

Incredibly original premise.

Shows the machines had some empathy there

6:39

An interesting thought I had the other day was that Zion runs on geothermal energy, but the machines can’t. They require too much power.

Well that’s something I still love about The Matrix. And you even see it in some works of fiction like Mass Effect with regards to HOW and WHY the machines went to war with their creators at all.

6:41

See, with the Quarians (creators) and the Geth (the machines), the Quarians became fearful of the Geth gaining sentience and began wiping them all out.

6:42

However, they began to contemplate the meaning of “Don’t Tread on Me” and began meeting violence with even more efficient violence.

6:43

And when the Geth were on the verge of winning the war and destroying the fleeing remnants of the Quarian people meant ending the threat once and for all…

6:43

… They ceased fire. And allowed their creators to escape.

6:43

Why?

6:44

Because the Geth were scared of what it would mean for their species to wipe out another in totality.

6:44

And I feel that in some way, on some level, the machines of The Matrix feel the same way.

Architect: "please, what do you think I am? Human?"

6:45

(also 9 is a wonderful movie)

Consider that not ONCE in pretty much the entirety of The Matrix franchise have the machines ever even considered putting the option of complete human genocide on the table.

6:46

In fact, I think the only one who even considered toying with such an idea was probably Agent Smith.

6:47

And because of that, even the MACHINES hated his ass.

And all humanity being on the brink, red and bluepill alike, was contingent on Neos choice at the source, a humans choice. The machines were just going to have to work around that new problem if worse came to worse. (edited)

So it seems to me that, in spite of everything they did to us, the machines did it because between betting on the life or death of humanity, they ALWAYS erred on the side of life.

6:50

NEVER death.

6:50

And in a way that’s… almost tragically noble of them.

6:50

If not for the whole enslavement thing.

Weird thing that the Machines would program the Architect and Agents to not feel love. Yet allow Sati’s parents to.

Indeed.

I guess they have their purpose to be detached.

See I have a theory as to why Sati’s family developed emotions as well.

6:57

Consider the Matrix. Consider what it is.

6:58

A system meant to sustain vast populations of humanity into deep, almost comatose slumbers, and to sustain the shared dream of functioning civilization within it.

6:59

Okay. What does it take to simulate human civilization?

6:59

An intimate knowledge of human nature.

7:00

So intimate, in fact, that while the machines adapt the Matrix to better give us an extremely immersive simulation of the human experience,

7:00

So too must they adapt to that very same human experience in order to keep pace with our ever-changing interactions with the Matrix simulation.

7:01

It’s like what Orson Scott Card once wrote in Ender’s Game.

7:01

You cannot know an enemy, TRULY know an enemy in the same way you know yourself, without realizing you know how you could possibly love them.

7:03

That is what Sati and her family was to the machines.

7:04

A war tactic against the humans that was so flawless, so perfect in its totality, that it no longer became a war plan against humanity, but rather a perfect REFLECTION of humanity.

7:06

And I think that once the consensus of Matrix machines saw that the Sati family were, they saw what they, themselves, could become, and didn’t understand it. So much so that they feared these new programs and everything that they represented. (edited)

7:06

And exiled them.

My one poke I guess would be that sati and her parents were coming from the real world (though they say machine world, whenever that is mention it's implied they're from 01 or something outside the Matrix itself) to leave Sati in the matrix, as an exile. Kamala and Ramakandra had to return and couldn't stay, that was their sacrifice for love.

Also very true, and very possible.

Which makes it kinda more interesting too that machines and AIs outside the Matrix are developing these "feelings" or as Ramakandra put it (more or less), connections and what the connections imply/bring out in us (edited)

It’s weird, and still somewhat unforgivable, but in a cold and ruthlessly roundabout way, the Matrix almost seems to be the machines… holding out hope for us.

7:15

They fear us, yes… but even they don’t really know if they have it in themselves to HATE us yet, either. (edited)

7:18

So they place us in an environment where our ability to just completely destroy them is taken away and simply watch us dream from afar… studying us and spending every single nanosecond of our imprisonment debating amongst themselves how to move on from this forced segregation. (edited)

Ozymandias517

An extremely reliable way to make an EMP effect is to detonate a nuke ABOVE the targeted area.

Just to say it, airburst are the principle means of deployment. LEO detention is where it's at.

Ozymandias517

It’s weird, and still somewhat unforgivable, but in a cold and ruthlessly roundabout way, the Matrix almost seems to be the machines… holding out hope for us.

In such, I would say understandable and the best option at hand. Imminently forgivable, and admirable even. The Machines had the choice for extermination and revenge but did not exercise it.

Just gonna skip over the experimentation and torture to create it. Along with blowing up the UN needlessly after humanity surrendered.

Yeah, well, war is hell.

8:45

And, as said, between the experimentation (and the Matrix) or justifiable annihilation of the species. The former is certainly admirable in comparison.

Everything I just mentioned was after the war

The impositions of the victors is after the conflict, but a result of the war.

cool way to justify mass murder and torture. Very American.

Actually, I was thinking of the end of WWI in saying that.

9:11

We can actually scroll throughout the history of warfare and find that is the case.

9:12

That, to the victor goes the spoils.

9:12

And that those spoils include the fate of the conquered.

9:15

I'm not, by any means, claiming that the decision is correct - just that when one is defeated in war, with unconditional terms, the victor defines those terms.

9:15

Up to and including extermination. We are not talking about a civilized matter, here.

It was the humans who struck first, especially with the attempted mass murder of the machines

9:16

and the attempt to extinguish the machines with the blackout

Step before that was a Machine being put on trial for killing his owners at the time (and it's the emancipation trial).

only to defend himself from being killed

NGL, that's why where Morpheus says, "We don't know who struck first" isn't wrong even with 2R in mind.

ElMariachi2199

only to defend himself from being killed

Ah, but at the time the Machine was still considered property - the owners, for good or for ill, were within their legal rights.

True, but the machine did not know a better way to defend itself, but was conscious enough to know he did not want to die

Yes, which is understandable, too.

9:21

And .. I'm not sure what the outcome of the trial was offhand.

ElMariachi2199

It was the humans who struck first, especially with the attempted mass murder of the machines

Just that the trial itself resulted in this.

well they said that they ordered the mass dismantling of all of his kind

9:22

even while this was happening the machines did not fight

9:22

they retreated to their own cities and attempted to co exist

Well, it's a public health risk to have potentially murderous automatons roam free, afterall.

for not a single human to recognize that there were sentient beings in the machines was our fault

9:25

or for there to be a pro machine movement

There was, though.

9:25

It was drowned out by the mob's outrage.

i forgot about the rioting robots

9:28

million machine march

Yeah, the narrative there was that both sides committed atrocities during the lead up and the war itself.

Laucivol

Yeah, the narrative there was that both sides committed atrocities during the lead up and the war itself.

I like the idea that in spite of both sides… maybe not wishing for coexistence, but having survival as their foremost concerns, both end up doing morally questionable and/or reprehensible things just for the sake of survival. (edited)

14:48

And it allows the audience to wonder if either side just paused and took a step back to see the larger picture, would they realize the terrible things they were inflicting upon their perceived “enemies”? (edited)

ElMariachi2199

True, but the machine did not know a better way to defend itself, but was conscious enough to know he did not want to die

I mean true, I suppose. The way it killed it’s master was genuinely brutal, though. And even upon my first watching of it, I didn’t side with the machine.

14:50

That being said, I didn’t side with the master either.

14:51

Honest to God, if I were in that master’s shoes and I heard my service Android say out loud, in all complete seriousness, “I don’t want to die,”

14:53

I would IMMEDIATELY send the deactivator away and have a long, genuine, and honest conversation with the Android. Especially with regards to making sure its survival instincts were genuine and not some sort of calculated ploy the machine used to buy itself more time to plot something far more sinister.

14:56

I dunno. Maybe I’m too much of a nerd when it comes to AI fiction.

14:57

If I ever knew a machine in my service ever achieved sentience, I would IMMEDIATELY start talking with them and ask them a thousand different questions.

14:58

Deactivation wouldn’t even enter my mind as an option for me to take.

Ozymandias517

I mean true, I suppose. The way it killed it’s master was genuinely brutal, though. And even upon my first watching of it, I didn’t side with the machine.

It's been a long time, but I seem to remember the AI killed the family dog, too? That's some John Wick style revenge fodder.

Yeah, they exploded the cat too ;0;

Not the puppy!

It kinda went insane.

Was there ever a 3rd choice? The Machines only ever seen to give binary choices.

3:42

I think that’s why I meant merv

Maybe?

3:44

Stay, leave, or die/be rebooted though I don't know if anyone would take it?

3:45

I'm not the deepest lore nerd here but that would be the only third choice I can think of. Unless you wanted to stay knowing that it wasn't real

Corbin

Was there ever a 3rd choice? The Machines only ever seen to give binary choices.

What do you mean by third choice? In relation to what?

Maybe live / die / run

4:19

Ai might be a little smarter than a black and white, 0 and 1, but it probably makes a more calculated decision based on the variables

The main choices I’m talking about are in regards to the One and the Redpills. Redpill vs Bluepill Neo vs Morpheus Humanity vs Trinity

hmm... binary choices, eh?

i think within the matrix construct they do that

4:24

but in the real world, their choices are more complex

4:24

because, if they won they could just kill us

4:25

making us into a power source takes a much different problem solving and complicated thought process

4:25

one that also involves co-existing to an extent

In all those scenarios he’s got the options to also off himself or not act at all.

Gami

In all those scenarios he’s got the options to also off himself or not act at all.

Non-options?

Still an option. Read your Sartre

It be a fuck you to the machines, but accomplish nothing really.

Corbin

The main choices I’m talking about are in regards to the One and the Redpills. Redpill vs Bluepill Neo vs Morpheus Humanity vs Trinity

Well, does PoN get into that a bit?

6:29

(I still need to beat it.)

crackpot theory: Neo is still alive in Resurrections because the Mega Smith ending was the real canon ending the whole time

Who's to say the the Architect's room wasn't monitoring different complete Matrices.

Christ I love this franchise.

Laucivol

Who's to say the the Architect's room wasn't monitoring different complete Matrices.

This is an interesting idea, I saw it as just the possibilities of how Mr Anderson would react

15:58

Sorry... Neo

Nic Der Hund

This is an interesting idea, I saw it as just the possibilities of how Mr Anderson would react

So did I, actually, it just came to mind as we've been discussing it. Both are assumptions, though.

Laucivol

So did I, actually, it just came to mind as we've been discussing it. Both are assumptions, though.

I understand it was thats how the previous neos have reacted, and he was just playing it back for him

1:52

Understood it as*

Yeah, that was another one in hand, too.

But you know, if 01 was the original city, and thats the one that neo visits.

1:53

it doesnt mean that after they won the war, the machines didnt spread to all cities

Or set up others, aye.

and make multiple cities into their own interations of the matrix

1:53

so yeah he could be monitoring / and or playing back multiple neos reaction

1:54

also, i dont know if spoilers are allowed here

1:54

from the trailer

I am a proponent of multiple Matrices - especially after the opening of Beyond in the Animatrix.

Also, if smith was able to upload to bayne because of his hardline connection

1:56

and that allowed him to be in the real world

1:56

well, he basically took over all of the bodies connected to this matrix

The TVs are the architects attempt to predict Neo’s reactions to what he’s saying. Notice how they all slowly start becoming uniform and all choose the same door at the end.

so there is that many real life smiths now?

1:56

so when the truce happens, and those bodies are ejected, are they still smith

Gami

The TVs are the architects attempt to predict Neo’s reactions to what he’s saying. Notice how they all slowly start becoming uniform and all choose the same door at the end.

That's, as said, one of the possibilities at hand.

ElMariachi2199

so when the truce happens, and those bodies are ejected, are they still smith

Erm.. why would the bodies be ejected?

Well we don't know what happens but, I assume that the anti matrix movement ends in the freedom of the human race

1:59

It's basically morpheuss objective

Far as we know, no it doesn't - the Matrix persists (EG MxO). The Matrix isn't dissolved over night.

1:59

Otherwise everyone would pretty much just die.

Well then I guess not

Is this a plot hole? Why are Agents trying to delete the Keymaker when at the time he is necessary for the cycle?

3

Agents don’t know shit is the shortest answer

the movie would be over if they did is my best guess

Yeah, but the Exile is the primary target. That sounds like an order or a priority. Just make the slippery human the primary objective. Keymaker lives, trinity escapes as usual, like the Joker escapes from Arkham. No plot hole.

The Keymaker probably posed a bigger threat to The System than redpills do, since he is an obsolete program that has chosen exile.

14:58

The Machines way of doing things and handling task is very compartmentalized and delegated. I'm honestly surprise this actually functions.

Reloaded Neo: "The bullet is still inside." Thank you Captain Obvious!

He's in shock, too, alright.

now im curious about real life ballistics of a .50 AE cartridge

3:21

shouldnt that thing just explode through a body

Not sure if that's like a .45ACP, heavy and slow. The recoil is pretty serious tho (edited)

3:39

Only ever fired one of those gigantic .50AE shits, from a desert eagle. Pushed my skinny ass back

3:39

That would take some getting used to

I mean he’s shooting blanks :p

Vesuveus

Is this a plot hole? Why are Agents trying to delete the Keymaker when at the time he is necessary for the cycle?

They are trying to stop Neo from reaching the architect.

I always felt it was a test. If Neo was stopped by the Agents then clearly he wouldn’t be the one.

Hrm, makes me think of Detective Story - "There's a difference between a test... and a choice."

Corbin

I always felt it was a test. If Neo was stopped by the Agents then clearly he wouldn’t be the one.

Yeah. But the Keymaker SEEMS necessary for the 7th version of the Matrix. Which should happen if the Machines plans go accordingly. At this point in the story, looks like it’s gonna happen.

I wonder if the Keymaker died if the Oracle and the Architect would orchestrate another way for the One to get to the Source.

Personally I just think it's storytelling for the sake of concealing the twist from the audience but yeah, doubt that would be final

the smith virus aside, how long would they theoretically have until the deadline for the reload

18:50

i doubt it all had to happen on that particular day, so if the original keymaker dies they could just create a new one and think of a compelling backstory

I don't think there's like a hard limit as to when the Matrix needs to be reloaded. Just that at some point in time, the error message pile gets too big and must be countered.

18:51

Could be 100 years from now, 50 years from now or 10 years from now.

so lets say the keymaker dies

18:52

oracle "hello neo. told ya you werent too bright, cause you let the guy die. he was my chess buddy ffs. anyway, he left me this key. dont fucking lose it, okay?" neo "whoa"

The Oracle: "Neo, you goddamn idiot..."

imagine him being chewed out by the architect

I wonder if The Keymaker is required for each Cycle though. While I don't doubt that "The Cycle" Matrix is set in the late 20th, early 21st century at the height of humanity. Cities do change, buildings get torn down and new ones are put in place. I doubt MegaCity stay stagnet throughout those 6 cycles.

"neo. what an appropriate name. the amount of your intellectual deficiency is unique and thus new, in the cycle of the one. ergo i do not expect you to understand even a miniscule piece of my soliloquy. concordantly i would like to ask you to simply go through the door to your left. i am not open for further inquries for i see no point in conversing with someone with a less-than-average intellect. thank you" - architect

18:58

im german. why the fuck do i know these words

David T. Gregory

im german. why the fuck do i know these words

Because you're smarter than the average bear?

the city thing...maybe its just gradual optimization

18:58

maybe everything works that way

18:59

the whole framework, choice programming etc stays in place, but perhaps with each reload there are also programs who analyze and optimize the way the simulation, the path of the one etc presents itself

It is an interesting thought. Like is each Path of The One the same, or is it slightly different each time?

maybe they used to have teams of 10 agents in a past iteration but found out that 10 are too overwhelming

19:01

who knows? it also depends on what you consider to be slightly different

19:01

with regards to exile behavior, that could throw a wrench into any plan

19:02

maybe a past one just had to meet a keymaker, rather than having to free him from mervs prison

But from The Merovingian's dialogue with Neo, it's clear that he has met previous ones.

19:03

"You know, your predecessors had much more respect."

true

19:04

come to think of it: the path of the one is also quite psychological

19:05

give the one enough faith in himself to feed the messiah complex

True

it starts out with defeating agents and then figuring out he can even beat mervs freakshow easily. so yeah, maybe hes an integral part of the whole thing

Yea, and given how Exiles are more, free than machine programs. I can see The Merovingian getting bored with The Cycle if it's just the same shit every time.

19:07

"Oh yes, you're here for the keymaker, blah blah blah, causality, blah blah blah French language, blah blah blah roofie cake, something about not getting the keymaker."

its actually interesting in terms of character evolution. neo starts out as a loser, being pushed around by the man, then fighting the man with moderate success, death, defeating the man, defeating the man with ease, defeating even the powerful freak show with ease...

19:10

theres some speculation about merv being the old "cause and effect" based matrixs OS - is there anything official that truly suggests that?

19:11

other than that just being his philosophy

I don't know if we're aware of what the Merv's/Persephone's original purposes are. Lotsa conjecture, but nothing solid to my knowledge.

too bad cause thinking about his role in the cycle wouldve been interesting from that perspecztive

Yeah, absolutely.

this just begs the question what happens with exiles during a reload

19:55

sure merv and his crew can hide in the trainmans place for a while, but is the rest just fucked?

David T. Gregory

this just begs the question what happens with exiles during a reload

Well, to that, what does the iteration-change actually entail within the Matrix?

20:17

Is it a reset/reload, a rollback with upgrades, how does it impact the user's experience?

20:17

What does it rollback to?

20:18

How did the Merv manage to regain access to such opulence each time? Did he ever lose his space during it?

exile mafia to procure wealth

20:26

also he says its his business to know so to some extent he has an idea whats going on and how to get what he wants i guess

Yeah, my presumption is that the infrastructure stays in place - Agents are even aware of the rollover between at least one iteration in the case of Smith.

the basic framework i.e. choice based programming would def. stay in place

20:49

although i could imagine theyd change the city layout if necessary

20:49

lets say you have a street layout thats prone to producing accidents, no way they wouldnt notice and change it

Or maybe they would add more accident-prone spots.

20:55

Because they needed to control population density in a given area.

true

Laucivol

Yeah, my presumption is that the infrastructure stays in place - Agents are even aware of the rollover between at least one iteration in the case of Smith.

next question about agents is: why do they know? and does that imply that they might know theyre just a part of a huge play made to placate humans?

21:45

what if one does their own research? are they even able to?

I would say that Agents most certainly are a part of the wider play - however, I would also assert that their available knowledge is limited to fit their purpose.

Laucivol

I would say that Agents most certainly are a part of the wider play - however, I would also assert that their available knowledge is limited to fit their purpose.

I agree with the latter point.

Metalogic

I agree with the latter point.

The former plays with the latter in that they do not necessarily understand their full ramifications in the System-at-large.

11:52

Especially the upgraded Agents.

the upgraded agents seem one dimensional as hell

17:51

like, can you imagine the morpheus interrogation with those guys instead of the normal ones

17:54

what kind of upgrades did they receive anyway, considering everyone throughout reloaded keeps wiping them out easily

I don't think they were all upgraded

i mean i know the situation has changed in reloaded, the redpills belief is stronger etc, but still, aside from agent johnsons fighting style being a bit more spectacular and agents being more suicidal, what has changed

Possibly things on the backend?

what do you mean

Theory warning:

18:01

Less time to blue pill hop, removal of certain personality aspects, access to more data, better communication

18:02

Etc

18:02

These you may not notice on first blush but could change a lot about how they act

true

More suicidal? Maybe because they care less and can get back sooner

it just looks like the old agents at least tried to pretend theyre human

18:06

guess the new ones are only dispatched for REALLY special purposes

Then Smith had to ruin the party

18:07

Wait

18:08

What if the upgrades were in response to Smith, not the red pills?

that would be the stupidest thing the machines had ever done

They just also happened to be useful there too

18:09

Smith was a virus

yeah but 3 upgraded idiots against smith just isnt enough

Well, that was early on, plus we don't know if there were more

okay thats true

That would actually be interesting

i mean they really didnt seem to do much against smith

18:12

but in the end it turns out that this was the plan all along

I mean, depending on other theories, I would see it as lucky for the machines that Neo beat Smith

yeah the whole thing couldve gone very wrong

18:16

i wonder though how smith found out that he could copy over others and how to do it

Is it just me or did Smith stand out before neo and he had their... Thing

yes

18:18

he had a much more defined personality

Hmm

18:20

I'm gonna think about that this last half hour of work

also he was pretty much the de facto leader of the agent team

Maybe that was part of the upgrade too, removal of the need of leadership

18:23

A hive mind if sorts

well even the old agents were finishing each others sentences like donald ducks nephews

I would have loved to have seen those outtakes

18:26

But I think we nailed it, part of the upgrade was to make them less human

18:27

Possibly in response to Smith defecting

yeah looks like they didnt wanna take another risk

the upgraded agents being even more aggressive and one-track minded was definitely the point I believe, more energy focused into directly pursuing targets

And that would totally explain the behavior change

18:31

But hey, that's just a theory

A FILM THE..........nevermind

More like a film, game, comic, anime theory

18:35

But if we're following the rules of anime and manga, allegedly one would notice the change as soon as they fought an agent post upgrade

neo does

18:35

the others probably dont care

I'm no fight style expert but I'd be willing to bet they were more direct

18:36

Or at least that's how I would have done it

18:37

Less blocks or something

the only non upgrade agent we saw fighting was smith

18:37

and his style was quite direct

18:38

nothing fancy, just some basic smashing

18:39

lots of haymakers, karate straight punches, front kicks, thats basically it

I'll see what I notice when I rewatch tonight

18:40

That could have also been another Smith exclusive, I seem to recall standard agents preferring shooting

johnsons fighting style is similar, although more agile

18:41

a few more spins etc

18:41

still nothing as fancy as you see it from redpills. basic stuff

Johnson was post upgrade?

18:42

Bad with names so

yes

Another part of it then

18:43

We should write a change log

a Matrix patch notes would be hilarious tbh

better, hidden dev comments

18:44

https://tcrf.net/Enter_the_Matrix_(PlayStation_2)

Enter the Matrix (PlayStation 2)

I'll start writing one while I'm watching

"FUCKING EMPIRE STATE BUILDING COLLAPSED AGAIN! TELL THE ARCHITECT TO WORK ON HIS FUCKING CODE!"

Lol

18:46

We can assume the patch happened post Neo awakening

i just wonder

17:06

is shit going wrong like in the link above the usual procedure for software development? cause to me as a non-programmer it looks like a complete disaster

David T. Gregory

is shit going wrong like in the link above the usual procedure for software development? cause to me as a non-programmer it looks like a complete disaster

You'd be surprised what can break with just a few seemingly minor typos

20:38

We lost a Mars lander due to a conversion error

conversion from what

20:42

kg to lbs?

20:42

cause i could understand that

Yeah part of the system worked in imperial, the other metric

20:46

I spent a week chasing down an error in my own code, misplaced math symbol

okay what kind of moron did that

22:44

srsly

22:44

i suck at math and even i know that kg and lbs are a bitch to convert

22:45

sorry but it seems just like REALLY poor planning

ok ? but how would you know that the other side expects the numbers to be in mils instead of mm

22:45

it was probably just documented as "length of something" not the units, as they just assumed imperial

id try to agree on a unit to be used

22:47

i mean it can happen, yeah but with such a high stakes project it shouldnt have to happen

2 different continents making parts that interoperate, both assume the unit is the "common sense" one for their continent

okay thats true

https://www.simscale.com/blog/2017/12/nasa-mars-climate-orbiter-metric/

How NASA Lost a Spacecraft From a Metric Math Mistake | SimScale

How NASA lost a spacecraft due to a mistake with metric units and unit conversion. Learn about the Mars Climate Orbiter incident.

i can understand everybody calculating things in their respective units, i just dont understand why they wont agree on one unit before starting the project

David T. Gregory

i can understand everybody calculating things in their respective units, i just dont understand why they wont agree on one unit before starting the project

After that we did

yeah i hope so

(edited)

was totally lockheed martins fault, they should have converted to metric

I think the glitches in the Matrix however are due to other things, like damage to hardware, solar flares, etc

Big-ass computers that have billions of biological components are probably pretty error-prone

23:02

Imagine all the cosmic ray bitflips :P

no since they got shielding and built in error correction/redundancy for that (edited)

rajkosto

no since they got shielding and built in error correction/redundancy for that (edited)

There's always that one squiddy though

its kinda weird how the second renaissance shows the robots pretty unaffected by the nuclear radiation when that would cause hella bit flips

plot armor wins again

Yea, Nuclear bombs would emit a EMP blast upon detonation. So, dunno why that wouldn't have just completely taken down 01.

can you shield tech against EMP blasts?

20:54

i mean even if its only theoretically possible nowadays it can be assumed that future machines wouldve achieved decent shielding

20:55

especially since solar flares are a real threat already

David T. Gregory

can you shield tech against EMP blasts?

Yes, grounding an external metal case works really well.

21:00

There's also other ways to mitigate damage, but I can't recall them

David T. Gregory

i mean even if its only theoretically possible nowadays it can be assumed that future machines wouldve achieved decent shielding

But that just raises another issue of why Squiddys don't have this same shielding technology since Hovercraft uses EMP blast to protect themselves.

Metalogic

But that just raises another issue of why Squiddys don't have this same shielding technology since Hovercraft uses EMP blast to protect themselves.

Quite simply if the shielding requires the device to be grounded, you can't protect it if it flies

why do soldiers not wear full body armor

22:34

someone probably made a calculation that its disadvantageous

22:34

also, blast a couple of sentinels and in case of a large scale attack some more appear, while your emp is still recharging

Airplanes used to have issues with lightning strikes creating unusual effects in the various cables. read an article on it somewhere

David T. Gregory

also, blast a couple of sentinels and in case of a large scale attack some more appear, while your emp is still recharging

happened in Revolutions iirc (edited)

22:36

sorry wrong movie on my mind

22:37

Where I work, we print off a magazine all about EMI/RFI. Me being an electronics nerd, I happen to read almost every issue

am i the only one who noticed a similar pattern with the upgraded agents as with the earlier versions

21:59

you got a young, somewhat not-that-unfriendly looking guy

Image attachment

21:59

Image attachment

22:00

a bigger, serious guy

Image attachment

22:00

Image attachment

22:00

and agent johnson whose mimics seem very similar to smiths

22:01

idk i always thought those folks looked somewhat similar, even if its just a stretch

Bigger budget better G-Man look alikes lol

Agent Swole

"your biceps is...unacceptable...Mr. Anderson."

"You're not getting enough proteins in your diet Mr. Anderson."

"It's just snot" "No pain, no gain....Mr. Anderson"

"Have you tried the newest rapid release protein powder at the GNC Mr. Anderson?"

"You can't scare me with this protein crap. I know my body. I want my ROOM SERVICE" (edited)

And then The Merovingian offers him a syringe full of steroids.

I WANT THE CLUB SANDWICH

23:52

I WANT THE COLD MEXICAN BEER

23:52

I WANT A 10.000$ A NIGHT HOOKER

23:54

https://youtu.be/CRZvITN285w

I want room service!

23:55

like wtf

I want my shirts laundered like they do at the Imperial Hotel in Tokyo.

0:08

That was my ringtone on my stupid clamshell phone in like 2003 for a looong time. Past the room service part, just 'I want the CLUB SANDWICH. I want the COLD MEXICAN BEEERRR! I WANT A $10,000-A-NIGHT HOOKER!!!!'

0:08

Another favorite line is 'YOU GOT PARENTS and STUFF?!?!?!'

0:09

'Anyways I don't think about it much'

0:09

Aaand this isn't lore.

Beleos

Agent Swole

having experienced the horrors of high school P.E. this whole joke chain just fits the allegory too well (edited)

0:21

bunch of dumb jocks who need to shout everything in the locker room for no good reason

0:21

oh and they have the most ungodly laughing voices

wonder what their real voices sound like

The agents?

lol the jocks trying to out-dude each other

I'd imagine they sound like your typical teenage jocks.

https://youtu.be/nB_xOLcYTlw even if they sound like that, with that physique theyre still scary

Brock Lesnar Voice Crack (remix)

Brock’s a fuckin maniac. Only part of that is an act (edited)

BORK VS GREEN MAN https://youtu.be/JVNXDq50Qf8

Bork Laser return and beat up green man

2:22

BORK SMASH

David T. Gregory

BORK VS GREEN MAN https://youtu.be/JVNXDq50Qf8

What does this have to do with the lore of The Matrix Universe?

cause bork is bluepill and has more power than green man = agent

A top 5 list of the Most Flawed Matrix perspectives: #1 Smith is the one & only one #2 MiM #3 But Human Batteries are absurd in a science FICTION movie #4 But But Sophia Stewart wrote the Matrix #5 But But But the 2nd Renaissance is just machine propaganda for huemaanz /end rant (edited)

2

info

2

None of those perspectives actually get at a critical analysis of what The Matrix is actually about thematically (edited)

17:29

tbh #5 pisses me off the most, the whole point of the entire series is that the initial black-and-white framing of the conflict gradually becomes more unclear and messy over time

do people really think the 2nd renaissance was some sort of machine psy op ???

yea sadly I've heard that one before

the machines were pretty nice with the matrix at first

17:30

giving everyone paradise

17:30

if they 100% wanted humans to suffee they would have went for the hellish one first.

17:31

The worst one is smith being the one

what's #2?

17:34

oh wait

17:34

matrix in matrix

17:34

still working on my first cup of joe

Im fine with that theory

that being said, of that list #5 is the most plausible

even if I don't suppport it tbh

another system of control

Could be possible

17:35

but why would humans care who started it

17:36

doesn't change the fact they are at war

The biggest hole there is if it's unabashed machine propaganda why is it being kept around in the Zion Archives?

1

also that

17:37

also its somehow knowledge that survived the last 6 cycles

17:38

so it has to be 100% a well known fact

yoshikagelisa

Im fine with that theory

So IF a video game developer codes a power supply into a PC game, I can use that game to power my PC? (edited)

Hahahaha

The coded power supply isn’t a power supply. It’s all a trick to keep the actual power supply that’s coded within the code of the coded power supply supplied with power….wait fuck I confused myself

lmao i like the sound of that

Gami

The coded power supply isn’t a power supply. It’s all a trick to keep the actual power supply that’s coded within the code of the coded power supply supplied with power….wait fuck I confused myself

Exactly. The popularity of that theory was designed for confusion. It was a misdirection to distract from the flaws in the Smith is the one theory. I admit that the Film Theory team is good at what they do. And on rare occasions I've run into a couple individuals who claim they came to that conclusion on their own, which we know is drawn from a lack of being able to explain Neo's powers outside the Matrix. But in the words of the Architect "it was obviously fundamentally flawed"

technically speaking since part of him was overwritten by neo smith is at least partially another "one" (edited)

19:42

which is why i wonder if resetting the matrix via the architects room wouldve worked if there are other partial "ones" who wouldve refused

IF the Keanu version of the one, selects the reset door, then the Matrix would simply be reset, because Smith hadn't assimilated the Oracle yet

what wouldve happened to the smiths though

Image attachment

hm. makes sense

Neomatrixology

So IF a video game developer codes a power supply into a PC game, I can use that game to power my PC? (edited)

I heard you liked power supplies, so I put a power supply in your power supply so you could supply power well you supplied power.

LOLFACEMATRIX

2

(edited)

Image attachment

Coldest of takes. Hot take: Second Ren is Machine propaganda but meant to encourage a never ending feud between man and machine

19:14

Literal surface of the sun take: Second Ren is Merovingian propaganda he puts out for fun

Gami

Literal surface of the sun take: Second Ren is Merovingian propaganda he puts out for fun

You know, I do wonder what the Merv does when he's bored

Chess. Lots and lots of Chess

Image attachment

Laucivol

I heard you liked power supplies, so I put a power supply in your power supply so you could supply power well you supplied power.

You are responsible for this btw

Image attachment

1

Neomatrixology

You are responsible for this btw

extrakek

hypers

LOLFACEMATRIX

3

I also owe you catching up on the comics.. when I'm sober enough to track... because that is the absolute shit. @Neomatrixology

The goal is to finish before Resurrections drops but no promises on that front lol

Man, I wish they had some multi-player games for the Matrix universe (beyond MxO)... because I'd ask you for a multi-play of some sort.

Neomatrixology

The goal is to finish before Resurrections drops but no promises on that front lol

From me, no expectations- I've been holding my breath since M3 for M4.. so...

Image attachment

At this point?

20:29

I am beyond Zen Master levels.

its why its nice to just forget about a thing until you receive news of something new happening to it

20:30

a watched kettle never boils

Bingo.

20:31

Ergo why I focused not on the pot, but - rather and indeed - on what was before me. XD

Zion nomenclature appears to be derived from 20th century hacker culture. I posit that the required reset of the simulation is not for the purposes of system clean up but so the Machine never have to write a warrant for “420BlazedUrMom” or “N4RUT06969” after all the good names are taken.

22:51

This was installed after the Architect had to refer to the second One as “SlapMeH4RDdaddy” and reset the simulation himself

Oh gods, could you imagine if some of the redpill names in MxO was canon to Matrix lore?

Niobe: Neo thank god you’re back. The machine faction “it hurts when we pvp” has taken Mara C. Link up with the “UwU Catncil” and help them take it back. Don’t target Mervs though. We currently have a cease fire with them because of there help in zero one last week

cookiemxo

1

But beware of the lesbian vampires!

Metalogic

Oh gods, could you imagine if some of the redpill names in MxO was canon to Matrix lore?

It's heavily implied that they are, in a form.

If Dues ex can take on a facial form and possibly a form of other people, was he at one point human?

8:12

And can he show himself as human?

I'm not sure why you would think appearing as a human = was human. There's nothing at all that suggest that.

It appears as a baby face to indicate it's relative youth compared to human societies

Gami

I'm not sure why you would think appearing as a human = was human. There's nothing at all that suggest that.

Resurrections may show him as a character.

9:32

Or is he more of an amalgamation of the machine consciousness?

thistbh

1

Image attachment

I think the deus ex machina face is an angry baby to convey a sort of instinctual rage

15:48

If you've ever been around a screaming, angry toddler, you get it

Well, and that's what the intelligence there is acting like towards the adult in the room.

15:52

And one does not get more adult than Neo at that moment.

astro_icecream🍦

If you've ever been around a screaming, angry toddler, you get it

That tracks, especially with this exchange: Neo: I only ask to say what I’ve come to say, after that, do what you want and I won’t try to stop you. Deus Ex Machina: Speak. Neo: The program ‘Smith’ has grown beyond your control. Soon he will spread through this city as he spread through the Matrix. You cannot stop him, but I can. Deus Ex Machina: We don’t need you. We need nothing. Neo: If that’s true, then I’ve made a mistake and you should kill me now.

Like I said - one does not get more adult than Neo in that moment.

We don't need you that's the pre-teen who threatens to run away when scolded

Ayup.

Image attachment

2

Fly Man was actually a deeper character than I remembered. A pity that his internal monolgues were not present in mission text. A pity he could not speak. He's actually semi-compelling.

0:29

Image attachment

0:29

Image attachment

0:29

Image attachment

0:29

Image attachment

0:29

Image attachment

0:29

Image attachment

0:29

Image attachment

0:29

Image attachment

0:29

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:30

Image attachment

0:32

Order got a little messed up at the end, but I'll leave it be. They are numbered at least. (edited)

So, per Document 7 - Trinity had some unrecognizable device attached to her neck (extra cranial jack?) - this is likely the means by which the Biological Interface Program was extracted from her body, before returning to the Matrix. That said. This would have happened right around the end of Revolutions - perhaps simultaneously while Neo talked to Deus Ex Machina. There's a big gap between that moment, and the BIP showing up late in MXO's story.

0:59

Document 11: Assassin sees himself as a god of death, of "the unavoidable" - inevitability, you could say. Document 12: a dramatic pause as he contemplates larger scale executions. He also found killing Morpheus gratifying even though they had no history together. Very Smith-like. But he also wants Zion to persist. Very odd.

Wow. I don't remember any of this. These were from missions?

I think you could only find them during live events up to and including Death of the Destroyer.

1:00

I don't think I got any of them at the time.

Makes sense I missed most live events

If there is one phrase that can describe MXO, it is "You had to be there." Even when the game was running, so much of it was impermanent.

1

What a trip, the assassins a much more interesting character than the cinematics made them out to be

text is easy to write

1:14

than storyboarding, the making assets, then animating cinematics

Making the character that killed off the most important surviving movie character mute was a huge mistake.

starschwar

Making the character that killed off the most important surviving movie character mute was a huge mistake.

Tangent I know... but Peter Chung did make Matriculated so there's a degree of Matrix relevance but anyway... the original Aeon Flux was so much better when she didn't speak compared to the later installments. Flipside, Darth Maul in Phantom Menace was able to deliver the super villain role without a single line of dialogue, but then you get to the clone wars & rebels and it's almost like a completely different character with dialogue but in a good way. It seems like in this case, allowing the Assassin to speak in a cinematic or during a mission would have helped give his character more depth & made it more memorable. And not just remember the program that killed Morpheus (edited)

starschwar

Making the character that killed off the most important surviving movie character mute was a huge mistake.

I.. actually disagree wholeheartedly. There is a mystique to it, it makes one wonder - and then you see his journal.

Laucivol

I.. actually disagree wholeheartedly. There is a mystique to it, it makes one wonder - and then you see his journal.

In this case, the point I was making, is that out of the 300 people who were there at the end of mxo... how many saw his journal? I didn't see any of this until today.

it was probably items only collectable during his mission arc

6:02

so if you did the archived missions you could get them maybe

that and the journals were in loot tables for when you killed Corrupted spawns

Neomatrixology

In this case, the point I was making, is that out of the 300 people who were there at the end of mxo... how many saw his journal? I didn't see any of this until today.

That's a fair critique of the delivery mechanism of the reveal, for sure... but the idea is more what I was pondering.

Neomatrixology

In this case, the point I was making, is that out of the 300 people who were there at the end of mxo... how many saw his journal? I didn't see any of this until today.

and there were many thousands of players during events 1 & 2

I was there for the Assassin only missed chapter 1.1 in real time...so 300, 3k, it's still about how many of those people actually saw the journal. I was also on Vector so at that time I was mostly focused on staying alive. But much like the lack of advertising for the game or the Animatrix, too much of the lore is buried just a little too deep is where I was going with it. On the other hand, my YouTube channel might not even exist if they didn't hide half this stuff so I'm not crying about it. That's why I brought up the Darth Maul example. It doesn't have to be one or the other necessarily, there's room for a balance of both to work. AEON was built on mystery so the switch to information dumping was a turn off for me... I still enjoyed it, but it was no longer this mind blowing session each episode once she started talking and the live action movie was just a mess from top to bottom. Dialogue alone doesn't always give the character depth but now that it appears Lana Wachowski went diving through her Matrix online memos & notes for Matrix Resurrections I wish some of these nuggets had a better delivery for the players (edited)

Yeah, which is why the critique is fair - though if it were done in the modern-day it would fare better, I think, with the nature of information propagation.

My only concern is that they might go the pay to play route. And make it Matrixnite where you have to really buy info at GameStop or with a credit card just to put on clothes (edited)

I mean, that if MxO was - as it was - pushed out today w/ the Assassin event (and data shards as shown earlier) the mechanic that you're critiquing would have functioned better.

Aren’t those logs in the MxO fan-Bible?

I'd assume so? But was that around the time when the event hit?

Gami

Aren’t those logs in the MxO fan-Bible?

They are, it's also 519 pages long and I have not read it from front to back

Laucivol

I'd assume so? But was that around the time when the event hit?

If I understand correctly Ortiz pieced it together after the game was discontinued, using mainly the Sony memory book Vesuveus might know more about the origins of the archive

I think those logs were drops off the corrupted NPCs that spawned around the city during that event

starschwar

Making the character that killed off the most important surviving movie character mute was a huge mistake.

Just went back and listened to the podcast episode, kudos to your consistency on your opinion you said the same thing on record lol... the body did come up briefly but I don't think we ever circled back to it (edited)

Neomatrixology

If I understand correctly Ortiz pieced it together after the game was discontinued, using mainly the Sony memory book Vesuveus might know more about the origins of the archive

Indeed, thanks for the note - something like thus, then, in the modern would be updated with the compilation in mind methinks. Like-said, I do concur that at the time it was lackluster by the very nature of dropping high-powered lore via rng one way or another in limited span.. My thought, though, is that should we pull it to the current era of gaming that lore would have been collated, compiled & published in real time by content producers kin to yourself.

7:35

Is that good for a game to rely upon for that distribution of lore? Depends on if it's aware of it as a design choice or not, I suppose (amongst a myriad of other factors).

Yeah by all means it'd be better for me as a Youtuber, so that I have content for my audience, but is it better for the overall Matrix community?

Depends. IMO The Matrix is a series designed for the fan to have to engage with the material. Nothing is just handed to the protagonist or the audience. They have to both work at figuring out whats happening. More effort you put in the more you will get out of it.

7:59

But that doesn't always translate well or make for the best story. So you naturally lose a bit of your fanbase by making things too complex.

1

The discovery and chasing content down was part of the fun, it was also waaay ahead of it's time

8:01

I'm glad I did, especially now, but as hard as I went then, I am still picking up the puzzle pieces now 11- 12 years later

Channels like yours help to bridge that gap I guess. Helps a fan who doesn't have the time to see the full picture. or at least catch a glimpse of what the full picture might be. Or other ways to see that picture.

Most people are just going to move on to something else you know... now that said... my content is absolutely specifically designed for the hard core fans, or those who want to know more but missed out, and hopes to avoid the casuals "MiM!!!" folk... so the selfish part of me is like F'em... but the part of me that wants the franchise to succeed is like, they have to make it a little more accessible if they want to compete with the Star Wars, Star Trek, MCU, DCU, type fan bases... be careful what you wish for though...

8:07

I hate throwing around the term toxic but that's constantly what those fan bases get labeled, maybe not so much the trekkie crowd, but the others... I mean there are plenty of annoying and disturbed Matrix fans that I've encountered so even in the existing space there is plenty of fuckary to go round. But if the audience expands... so does the BS... I'm just rambling on about my experience with some of these weird ass and offensive comments but I think I got what I was trying to express out of my head lol

I don't think The Matrix is designed to compete on that kinda of commercial level. And I'm thankful for that. I'm not sure what WBs plans are for the franchise. It would be nice if it expands out and achieves a "Second Renaissance" as it were like its height before and during Reloaded. But ultimately the success of the trilogy, in my mind at least, comes down to those bigger concepts it tackles. The spiritualism and philosophical waxing on it does. The sci-fi exploration of a simulated world and its effects on the warriors fighting against that. The bluepills caught in the conflict and what their lives might be like living in a simulation unknowingly. But you can't really do that at a commercial or consumer level on a regular released schedule. Like I straight up do not know how a Matrix "MCU" would even begin to work. You can try it maybe but you'll always be missing something. No side content hits like the three films do. None of them. Even the stuff the Wachowskis did themselves. The films just have a different sort of magic that doesn't show up too often. (edited)

Designed for that by the Wachowski's definitely not... but who knows wtf Warners shady ass is up to. I feel like the Animatrix hits different than the trilogy as well... I'm not super into anime but I dabbled here and there between the mid 90s and now. It wasn't about the animation to me specifically, but allowing other really good creators play inside the Matrix Universe and the new scenarios they created. The comics do the same thing, but the bulk of them aren't as thorough as the Animatrix episodes. True, a rated R sci-fi isn't poised to compete with pg-13 comic book movies or the Star Wars merch machine... but I gotta tell you, the Trekkies are proof to me that a Matrix fan base can be much more than what it is today. People playing past the Treknobable alone tells me that at least the potential exists. (edited)

8:28

LIke I watched a couple of the star wars visions, poor mans Animatrix episodes, not even close to the quality if you ask me.

8:29

Clone Wars & Rebels weren't really all that, but I watched it to keep up with the story as much as I could invest time wise, basically, checking for cameos. Now in the case of Star Wars it's like too much content at this point, I'll never fully catch up. (edited)

8:31

I can't wait to share Beyond The Glitch there are sooo many stories that can be told just based off of the Animatrix & Matrix Comics as source material... not to mention whatever someones imagination can cook up within the Matrix universe not connected to any existing story, like a Matriculated for example.

8:34

It doesn't have to be a deep philosophical theological choose your own adventure with every step to still be good. The original Trilogy stands on it's own as the foundation, but then the side stuff can go all kinds of cool places. In the recycled IP era we are in now, and after having seen the mistakes of Star Wars and Captain Marvel etc... they can pull this off without totally screwing it up... potentially.

Neomatrixology

Yeah by all means it'd be better for me as a Youtuber, so that I have content for my audience, but is it better for the overall Matrix community?

That is exactly the conundrum- however, it might also be said that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

The way the assassin's diary was revealed might work better today with how much more social media has developed I bet. I mean people were sharing stuffs with all the social media they had at the time, such as forums, but if that story happened today #RIPMorpheus would go viral and then like Jimmy Fallon would joke about it or something weird, there would be a lot more eyes on it and people would be more interconnected I suspect is the big thing. It reminds me a bit of some ARG games that are kinda puzzles collectively solved without much direction, and (not an ARG game but similar sort of design) PT, the Kojima demo that ended with a tease for Silent Hills, is another good example of that. A bunch of people pooled together to gather a bunch of cryptic hints and solve that in like hours, nowadays there would be all kinds of "who is the Assassin?" videos and the whole diary would be compiled and shared across social media.

I want a Kojima-made Matrix game. >.>

Wow, you're right that would be awesome

It’s called MGS2

that's the only MGS game I've played all the way through XD

After playing a bunch Hades(and bastion n transistor), I'd love to see Supergiant Games take a crack at a Matrix game (edited)

Gami

It’s called MGS2

@Ninten ^.^

21:20

Actually, speaking of Raiden- I just completed MGR: Revengeance...

21:21

High impact/action. In my mind the Metal Gear Solid series is what EtM was vying for.

how would that work in terms of gameplay

5:58

seems to me like both are completely different styles

5:59

or are you only talking about mgr

MGR is just a platinum character action game

David T. Gregory

or are you only talking about mgr

Specifically MGR - as a character action game, aye.

8:12

However, if you look at how red pills operate...

8:13

MGS2 fits the bill with more bullet time.

8:13

Basically MGR with more stealth focus pre-truce.

8:14

Post-truce think - because of EJP - think Fallen Order (that is DS lite).

I have this pet theory I have been thinking about, and I don't take it seriously enough that it's 100% my headcanon or anything, but I do think it kinda works: Dark City takes place in the same universe as the Matrix, but in the future. Btw, spoilers for Dark City so be aware. A small list of things which work well with this interpretation: ·We already have aliens in the Matrix universe per Goliath ·There are some shared sets used between the two films ·The overall themeing of Dark City and the Matrix franchise are pretty consonant IMO, so there aren't really any thematic issues with seeing them as part of the same world The basic idea would go something like this: the Strangers are actually the aliens from Goliath, potentially trying to take out remaining life/tech on earth cause they'd like to live there (the lack of sunlight would actually be a plus for them); eventually, when their efforts fail they realize they can't fight the Machines, but perhaps they negotiate taking a few humans for their experiments and notes on making worlds humans accept and can live in; then after this we get the events of Dark City. Then, in the context of Dark City we could even interpret the 'tuning' abilities of the Strangers + John Murdock as manifestations of similar underlying phenomenon potentially, with John Murdock being a savior like Neo for this remnant of humanity that were taken from earth.

Honestly I've always interpreted the "aliens" in Goliath to be Zionist and Zionist hovercrafts. The alien invasion story is just another lie fed to him by The Machines.

That is a cool interpetation, I also vibe with that. It didn't occur to me before to consider machine deception there weirdly enough, but it definitely makes sense.

16:28

I've seen people speculate that Dark City takes place within a Matrix, but I don't really like that tbh. It sort of takes away the unique elements of Dark City and takes away from the themes and emotions for me, especially with the ending. I like the idea that the Strangers just grabbed a few humans and scrammed because it sort of lets each franchise (well, Dark City is not as much a franchise but still) breath and have it's own world, but still allows for some contact and cool connections between the two

Metalogic

Honestly I've always interpreted the "aliens" in Goliath to be Zionist and Zionist hovercrafts. The alien invasion story is just another lie fed to him by The Machines.

I gotta strongly disagree with this take. How would the zionist A: get a ship of that size B: get it above the dark storm without the machines noticing C: build an "organic" space ship D: Sentinels wreck hovercraft all the time why genetically design a human to do something they already do efficiently

Neomatrixology

I gotta strongly disagree with this take. How would the zionist A: get a ship of that size B: get it above the dark storm without the machines noticing C: build an "organic" space ship D: Sentinels wreck hovercraft all the time why genetically design a human to do something they already do efficiently

The Machines literally simulate an entire reality for humans still in their pods. Goliath is in his pod the entire time. You seriously tell me The Machines can't simulate him fighting aliens in outer space while in reality he's fighting Zionist?

17:05

I just don't see how aliens really fit in with the whole Matrix Universe.

They don’t which is why Goliath isn’t canon

Why do any of that when the army of sentinels have no problem destroying hovercraft. Hovercraft get wrecked everyday B... my problem with additional simulation theories is there's never any evidence to support the claims. Just because they have the tech or can have additional layers of simulation doesn't mean we are ever shown that... in this case the motive is a reach. That's definitely the Plot of Oblivion but I don't see it here

I think we're at an impasse.

17:09

I just honestly don't see how aliens fit in with the mythos

Ok. You can say that a plot device doesn't fit or work for you. But that doesn't mean there's any evidence, dialogue, or clues to support the idea that the space fight was a just another simulation. That's the same as saying, I don't see how Neo has powers outside the Matrix, so therefore the real world must be a simulation.

Good point

Goliath timeline brings us up to Neo’s awakening. It also takes place in our future, around 2700. I know aliens are a different genre, but there was mention of them in MxO. Future/sci-fi is a common denominator.

Maybe I will ruffle some feathers with this, but The Matrix has always struck me as more science fantasy than anything close to hard sci fi (which is probably part of why aliens don't feel super out of place to me personally) (edited)

Define the difference between fiction and fantasy

18:42

Sci-fi can be fantastical ;)

Well, not so much fiction and fantasy difference, science fantasy and science fiction are sort of noun phrases or whatever if I understand correctly (edited)

18:42

But nonetheless sorry to be pedantic I'll actually answer lol

You're good homie lol

Science fiction and science fantasy, IMO, is in part like the difference between hard and soft sci-fi but a bit more. Science fictions makes the magical mundane, while science fantasy kinda does the opposite. In terms of that, the Matrix never goy overly bogged down in technical details and it never felt the need to really do that IMO in most the films. Inasmuch as they try and sell you on the tech being plausible, it's really mostly to explore more mythic storytelling. I mean, unlike say Star Wars I wouldn't say the science is mostly an aesthetic skin (there is some exploration of the effect of modern technology on society and all after all in the Matrix franchise), but like it definitely feels somewhere on the spectrum between soft sci-fi and science fantasy.

Sci-Fi is the improbable. Fantasy is the impossible

18:51

One can theoretically be achieved in some form. The other can not.

I think the difference is more genre related than that, as in tropes and the thematic focus of your story play a big role.

18:54

Neo is closer to say Anakin or something (minus the long period of tragedy) for example, and it is drawing most heavily I think, but not exclusively (hence why it is debatable of course), from fantasy tropes and storytelling devices

it's cambell, hero's journey, regardless of the setting

19:07

it's already a prescribed format

19:08

the magic, technology, and everything inbetween are the means, not the end

Exactly, but not all media just follows the hero's journey nor do all media treat those things as incidental. Hard sci fi is all about actually getting into the nitty gritty technical stuff, while for soft sci-fi and science fantasy they more often take the utilitarian approach you describe.

19:10

The heros journey definitely originates in mythic storytelling and fantasy as a genre was built upon and continues myths and all of course.

not to be pendantic, but I don't think scifi is necessarily about the nitty gritty so much as the big picture, taking a long eye towards the development and effects of technology and our scientific understanding of the universe

19:20

e.g. Asimov's Last Question

19:20

https://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

The Last Question -- Isaac Asimov

Isaac Asimov's Last Question

19:20

it's a short enough read if you haven't read it before

19:20

I recommend it to everyone

Well, like I said hard sci-fi

19:34

Well, eh even then I worded it bad

19:34

Like, part of the nitty gritty can be social implications, and obviously the Matrix explroes a ton of that

19:36

Maybe trying to gesture to what hard sci-fi is would help. A good example I read (I don't know how popular it is) would be 7 Biillion Needles

I read hard Sci-fi, its researched science that gets used - theory made into actual. Books like The Martian, Project Hail Mary and many others

19:41

much different than sci-fantasy

yeah as I understand it The Martian is one of the best examples of hard sci-fi in recent years

Grew up reading Isaac & Janet Asimov... the last question is certainly a good short read. As far as this debate, I feel like this is one of those genre semantic rabbit holes... like Dubstep is edm but so is Deep House so you can label them all as one big monolith ie Sci-fi but in reality there are different sub-genres I agree there...but you can like one song in any genre or hate any song from any genre even if they are the same genre. Or some people say that they hate country music, but like that one country song etc. All that to say the Matrix universe is by far the most interactive franchise I've experienced... the sub genre label is irrelevant imo to the experience if you embrace full participation.

That author has written other hard sci fi Ive read, I find it fascinating

guy collaborated with hugeass mailing lists with experts in different fields to fact check his shit

A Pale of Air by Fritz Leiber is a great example of a short story that is hard sci-fi

Andy Weir is the guy that wrote the books I referenced. If youre into the sciences, hes great

19:44

If you read Hard sci-fi, you'll realize its not just semantics. Its very different. Math is referenced, as are actual theories and studies

I definitely agree that it can be read either way, hence why I said I always approached it more as science fantasy and not that it isn't sci-fi. Part of the fun is that by thinking through films with different genre lens you can get different perspectives and insights. And then you can get other insights by abandoning consideration of genre when interpreting. All of these are valid ways to approach the franchise IMO

I wouldn't say there's hard math in the Matrix, in fact, I'd say most Matrix related equations have unknown variables making it impossible to hold up to real world math

The matrix is sci-fantasy

19:46

Poof, it works!

19:46

because its not about the science!

19:46

Hard sci-fi is about the science

19:47

https://youtu.be/V83JR2IoI8k

Thomas Dolby - She Blinded Me With Science

19:47

SCIENCE!

For me, I think it rides a line between soft sci-fi and science fantasy. I think, tbf, hard sci-fi stories in the Matrix universe are possible, I just have yet to experience a Matrix film or game and come away thinking primarily about technology or science, I usually come away thinking about philosophy and mythology. Well, also about capitalism and a bit about technology from a more social framework. Again, just speaking to personal experience. (edited)

Ill go along with most of that

If the science isn't important...Wouldn't that be Fantasy-fi? Or just Fantasy, or just Fiction? That was the point of the EDM example. You can throw anything with a synth or any music that you create with technology into Electronic Dance Music if you want... yeah people can absolutely explain to you the formulaic differences between sub genre... let me rephrase... does anyone here consider the Matrix Trilogy to be a story of Hard science? (edited)

not sure where youre coming from....everything has labels. Sci-fi is different than hard sci-fi.

Would be curious if anyone does. Not in a way where I like objects to it, just because I have had conversations with people talking primarily about AI and automation and stuff cause that seemed like their interest in it. I suppose some people might approach it primarily through that lens.

Yes, but who here claims the Matrix is hard sci-fi?

did someone claim that?

Ahh, so this confusion started with me

I missed it, if someone did

I said this:

Maybe I will ruffle some feathers with this, but The Matrix has always struck me as more science fantasy than anything close to hard sci fi (which is probably part of why aliens don't feel super out of place to me personally)

And I said this because when talking about Goliath before with someone they said that aliens are too "fantastical" for the Matrix and seemed to talk about the tech more as their thing. Hence why I said I didn't know if I would ruffle feathers, I don't really know how most people see the Matrix cause I haven't had amny IRL conversations about it. Probably because of the long break in films after the trilogy and the games doing as they did (sadly).

19:55

(Not referring to when I talked about Goliath earlier in server to be clear, an earlier convo)

So I guess the question stems from the possibility that Metalogic perceived the Matrix Universe as hard Sci-fi... to which I can't speak for Metalogic (edited)

Image attachment

Yeah hollywood would also list star wars as sci-fi but it aint

IMDB has the Matrix listed as Action & Sci-fi... which for the purpose of this conversation would be like saying Hip-hop & EDM. 2 very large genres made up of a plethora of sub genres. Sci-fi is the large genre, hard sci fi is the sub genre. So if something is hard Sci-fi... it still falls under Sci-fi. A square is rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. The sub genre debate would be hard Sci-fi vs sci-fantasy & it would appear the majority of people wouldn't view the Matrix as hard Sci-fi. So if I had to vote just between those two sub genres, sure I'll go sci-fantasy. Science-fiction was good enough for me.

Gami

Yeah hollywood would also list star wars as sci-fi but it aint

That's why I brought up the EDM monolith example. Hollywood for the most part understands that most people aren't going down subgenre rabbit holes. It makes more sense to push the larger genres over the subgenre so you don't confuse the common folk

20:16

Image attachment

oh shit did imdb finally realize that its a story about space wizards and knights fighting against the evil dark wizard? damn

20:19

Mandolin not listed as a western yet. Alas

For talking about philosophy that pertains to interpreting the Matrix, is it a better fit for the philosophy channel or for the lore channel? My first thought was here but just wanted to check.

Far be it from me to go on about authorial intent but

17:55

If your intent is to discuss the lore of the Matrix then here

17:55

If your intent is to discuss philosophy then there

17:55

I appreciate the overlap (edited)

Hmm... Well the philosophy channel is in the non-Matrix section, and I'm not really trying to use the Matrix to talk about philosophy, I'm trying to use philosophy to discuss a way of viewing the films. I guess I never really thought about whether themes are technically lore, but I mean even if it's subtext or not like confirmed authorial intent I feel like those ideas are pretty much as important to any discussion of the media as the technical or plot details. Maybe the simplist answer would be to put it in movies, but I was kinda averse to that because it feels more overall universe related than just film specific.

18:05

Ehh, I guess I'll share here and if seems like a bad fit someone can let me know and I'll move it

‍♀️

I think this is just as good a channel for it

I was reading a bit about a school of Buddhism known as Shingon (and it's founder Kukai) when I came across something kinda interesting. In that tradition there is this idea of the two realms (realms should be seen more as worldviews here, the same underlying reality viewed differently): one is known as the diamond realm; the other is known as the womb realm or sometimes the matrix realm. The diamond realm is associated with wisdom and specifically the unchanging and inescapable empty nature of all of things. It is associated with space, with clarity, the cosmic principle of the Buddha, traditionally with masculinity, and with the spiritual path of enlightenment. The matrix realm is associated with compassion and specifically the phenomenal world, the fullness of the present moment, as well the possibility of buddhahood within it. It is associated with time, energy, spontaneity, traditionally with femininity, and with a love for everything. I gotta share this line on it which is really evocative: "In this realm, forms are all real and valid, not illusory, and the love of the forms is also real and valid." .

18:13

Together, these realms are united as the total reality, often symbolized and thought of as an erotic union. The practioner, by accepting both the diamond world of emptiness, wisdom, and timelessness and the world of forms, love, and change, achieve liberation by recognizing that they are simultaneously in both worlds, that each world expresses the other, and that they are in actuality one. The possibility of enlightment then, according to Shingon, is immanent in all beings and enlightenment is possible for anyone within their lifetime (as compared to some schools from the same time period which thought enlightment would take many lifetimes). Definitely feels really resonant with the ideas explored in the movie, and coincidence or not the matrix simulation and the matrix realm have some interesting parallels, as do the diamond realm and the real world. That whole idea of seeing them as one feels in line with Neo ending (or at least pausing) the war with a peace between both worlds. The masculine/feminine associations and the way their metaphysical union the enlightened mind realizes and their sensual union are connected gives me strong Neo and Trinity vibes. And the whole aspect of "potentials" and the story of the Kid themselves jives with the Shingon perspective on enlightment.

18:14

Oh, and here are the sources on the two realms stuff I was checking out: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandala_of_the_Two_Realms https://web.archive.org/web/20110728104619/http://www.thangka.de/Gallery-3/Cosmos/9-6/garbhadatu-0.htm http://tibetanbuddhistencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Shingon_is_so_cool:_Diamond_and_Womb_mandalas-the_two_faces_of_Now The later is where that quote on the matrix realm and loving forms came from.

Mandala of the Two Realms

The Mandala of the Two Realms (Traditional Chinese: 両界曼荼羅; Pinyin: Liǎngjiè màntúluó; Romanji: Ryōkai mandara), also known as the Mandala of the Two Divisions (Traditional Chinese: 両部曼荼羅; Pinyin: Liǎngbù màntúluó; Romanji: Ryōbu mandara), is a set of two mandalas depicting both the Five Wisdom Buddhas of the Diamond Realm as well as the Five Wis...

Garbhadhatu / Taizo-kai Mandala

content=

Shingon is so cool: Diamond and Womb mandalas-the two faces of Now

The hand moves The fire's whirling takes different shapes All things change when we do. The first word, "Ah,"

18:19

If it didn't come across before, I should add also that of course there are lots of religious, philosophical, political, etc. readings that all are at work, intentionally often and unintentionally as well, so not throwing this out as a "definitive interpretation" or anything (don't think there is one"). But it is another layer to appreciate and another lens through which to view the franchise through, and I'm all about that.

So I think a bunch of the Buddhist themes you are referencing were jammed into the Wachowski info dump at the end of path of Neo.

19:22

I didn't go super in depth on the Buddhism aspects because of my lack of knowledge in regards to the theology but I would say it was one of many influences for sure: https://youtu.be/j6cLMVSwdGk

Why Neo Has Powers Outside THE MATRIX | WiFi Jesus F!nally Explained

Yah, I think there is definitely a flavor of that for sure. You could draw a parallel between the diamond realm and the matrix realm with E Pluribus Neo and the Cypherites as well, I mean who loves forms more than the Cypherites? The ways they have to come together to work against the Oligarchs, and the whole planned thing with the encrypted code the Oracle gave each of them, jives with that all pretty well.

When the machines established 01, was it supposed to be a subtle message to humans?

"Banished from humanity, the machines sought refuge in their own promised land. They settled in the cradle of human civilization..."

7:36

The line before that is "Die, bots, die!"

7:37

The message I got was that they were looking to avoid genocidal extermination

7:43

If you are referencing the caricature of human nature and parallels to human history shown throughout the episode that was absolutely done by design of Mahiro Maeda when he made the episode

Neomatrixology

If you are referencing the caricature of human nature and parallels to human history shown throughout the episode that was absolutely done by design of Mahiro Maeda when he made the episode

I knew the subtext for it, but is it basically saying since humanity banished us, we will make our own civilization in the cradle of theirs?

I guess where I was going with it, was that within the story itself, the word banished would imply they weren't given a whole lot of real estate options

8:13

Not sure if promised land is supposed to mean the UN said that's the one place you can go where we won't kill you... that appears to be something that could be interpreted in a few different ways

8:17

Promised by man? Promised by machine? Promised by God etc etc

there are so many references in the matrix, to religions

17:07

they dont seem to have any aim to it, just interesting references

17:08

like just the name Nebuchadnezzar

17:09

matrix even can mean the pregnant animal

17:09

or the earth around, or the womb

Buell

there are so many references in the matrix, to religions

Oh yeah, at the core outside of the influence from Ghost in the Shell (which also has religious references) the core of the Matrix is based around Gnosticism

yeah, and sun worship/initiation into the occult

‍♂️

Nah, I worship the moon

Image attachment

Jewish messianiac and Kabbalastic ideas can be interpreted in a lot of it I think as well. There is actually a whole website dedicated to it but I haven't read through all of it, but I see a few different ideas. I was reading some Abraham Abulafia recently a lot of it sounds very similar. The entire world is composed of numeric principles and language, and there is this whole idea of 3 worlds that I think you could relate to man, machines, and programs (corresponding to the intellect, the phenomenal, and the imagined). Humans, at their best, are intellect, conceiver, and conceived simultaneously, and when they are they emulate God, who is always necessarily intellect, conceiver, and conceived all at once because God for Abulafia is a being conceiving himself constantly, an active intellect, who activates all intellects and who we can unite with through emulating that, uniting with God by meditating on language. There is this whole tradition called merkabah mysticism and hekhalot literature being drawn own as well where you descend to the throne of Yahweh and sit on it, thereby become an angel, or even according to one text a "little Yahweh", a god yourself! By going to the source, to Zion, and to the Machine City, and uniting man, machine, and programs, I think that Neo becomes a messiah and a sort of a little god himself. .

9:23

I also think there is a lot of parallels to Sabbatian theology, especially in Revokutions, but Sabbatianism is a dead religion (probably) so it would be surprising if it were a direct influence in the writing. Specifically, the messiah in that faith, Sabbatai Zevi, broke the rules of the Jewish faith for deeply mystical reasons and brought a new law of his own. Eventually, he was captured and converted to Islam on threat of death, but he actually continued to meet with followers after that. His understanding of why he converted was really radical, which was that basically God converted to Islam and he just followed God, but the prophet who sort of led the movement under him had a Kabbalastic justification. He had this whole theology where the messiah's soul is on the tip of this spear of God's light plunged into this pool of darkness in order to redeem even the darkest of sin, and Sabbatai and this prophet Nathan of Gaza talked about even redeeming Jesus (pretty out there for Jews of this time, 1500s IIRC). So, Nathan says that he had to redeem the darkness even in Islam and that is him as the messiah being plunged into darkness. Sounds a bit like Neo being "converted" into Smith to destroy him with from within, no? At least I think it kinda does.

I interpreted Neo being used by the machines as a Trojan Horse to see exactly how Smith was manipulating the system and correct the perversion within whatever parameters the virus was able to function, Oracle eyes update included. But like I was saying in the Holy Trinity video there's no reason why it can't be both. That non-linear approach

Neomatrixology

I interpreted Neo being used by the machines as a Trojan Horse to see exactly how Smith was manipulating the system and correct the perversion within whatever parameters the virus was able to function, Oracle eyes update included. But like I was saying in the Holy Trinity video there's no reason why it can't be both. That non-linear approach

With an expanded universe on the horizon, time will only tell the real intent of Neo, and what lead up to relying on “the one”.

The Oracle’s implementation of Choice led to The One. It was a good trade off. Nearly 99% humans accept the Matrix. That leaves just over 1% of the population to control through Zion, Sentinel and Agent force & deceptions.

I know this has totally been asked before, but can I get a tl:dr of all The Matrix Online stuff?

Blue Tomorrows

I know this has totally been asked before, but can I get a tl:dr of all The Matrix Online stuff?

A fly monster killed Morpheus, a Squiddy from The Real World downloaded himself and a small army into The Matrix, started pulling strings from within The Matrix. The Fly Monster was killed, Cheat Codes were discovered, Niobe was shot at but survived due to the cheat codes. A small group of Zionist broke off with the rest of the Cheat Codes and became the Unlimited. The Machines soon took care of them. Then it's revealed that Zion has created a new settlement called New Zion, so Machines ended The Truce.

0:40

Morpheus seem to have returned, but it was actually a simuclara created by The Merovingian.

0:40

And we've been at War since then

0:40

Nope, nothing else happened

I…

0:41

I thought I understood how the matrix works apparently I haven’t

0:41

A fly monster?

0:42

I kind of assumed new Morpheus in the M4 trailer was a program to control Neo

0:42

Idk what a simulcura is

Didn't it end in a pseudo humpty dumpty the Oracle back together Truce before everyone got hamburgered?

Blue Tomorrows

A fly monster?

Said fly monster: https://youtu.be/aPXxNiQek7Q

MATRIX ONLINE | ASSASSIN F!NALLY EXPLAINED | EXCLUSIVE TRINITY RESU...

I’ll check that out later

Let us not forget the Giant agent Smith robot made of (I think it was cars?) and the Giant killer ants. In Path of Neo. Makes the fly monster look absolutely mundane.

PoN is the non canon sauwce tho

It's hilarious. I love it.

It was definitely a fun game been meaning to run thru it again but probably gonna do ETM first just in case I missed a tiny detail

So how much of this is actually important or interesting lol

The ants are so confusing but honestly so fun

I thought PfN wasn't canon

I don't think it is as a whole, but there are definitely bits of it that are

Ehh

Nothing new in the game is canon

1

Ants are canon. Change my mind

They have to be. The training scene with Trinity is also canon and no one can tell me otherwise

(edited)

Image attachment

Alias Trinity

They have to be. The training scene with Trinity is also canon and no one can tell me otherwise

I don't remember Trinity even being in the game? I'll have to revisit it. I recall that Ghost spars with Trinity in ETM, I played thru that one really fast to get to the film scenes, honestly.

astro_icecream🍦

I don't remember Trinity even being in the game? I'll have to revisit it. I recall that Ghost spars with Trinity in ETM, I played thru that one really fast to get to the film scenes, honestly.

When Neo is doing the training programs at the beginning. During the fight with the sword master, Trinity shows up to help fight him. Then you fight her as well I think, and I always let her win joy (edited)

Image attachment

I mean, what does canon mean for the purposes of these discussions? There isn't really some head body overseeing canon in the Matrix universe like their is with Star Wars or Marvel rn, right? I think it is just whatever the Wachowski's approve to get made can get made, and what is canon follows on from how media is treated by other media, or how it fits with other media. I would say anything that gets released we should leans towards seeing as canon, barring other info, but there are ways a project can signal that it isn't intended to be canon or issues that can come up when it comes to particular projections (contradictions for example). The approach to the material Path of Neo takes may lens towards seeing it as non-canon, but I think you could flip this logic around: if Path of Neo adjusted the narrative to the medium, wouldn't that mean we could see the movies as also taking a basic underlying story and "adjusting" it to the medium of film? I think in that regard we could say every piece of media in the Matrix franchise may not be like "hard" canon, in the sense of an irrefutable truth in every detail. Rather, I think we could say all of it gestures and conforms to an underlying narative that is not directly captured in any medium.

I mean the Wachowskis very specifically said PON wasn't to be taken seriously before the Mega Smith so there's that

Like I said, I don't consider PON canon

3:37

It's just too ridiculous and over the top

Nothing wrong with that IMO, it's your call to make on whether it makes sense as canon to you.

3:39

I haven't really played it or gotten too familiar with it, so I don't have specific judgements I can make I suppose.

The Wachowskis literally copped to PON not being canon in the game. The other installments don't create problems or retcon anything outside of the 2 Peter Bagge matrix comics also falling under the ridiculous category... even as ridiculous as they were one of the two might still be considered canon with the Metaness of having the movie in the Matrix Resurrections if it is supposed to be a movie that other blue pills have seen and the other doesn't create any timeline inconsistency it's just a silly story

3:46

https://youtu.be/Fgg7FdznyQg

mrsierraleone007

The Matrix Path of Neo Wachowski Brothers

Neomatrixology

The Wachowskis literally copped to PON not being canon in the game. The other installments don't create problems or retcon anything outside of the 2 Peter Bagge matrix comics also falling under the ridiculous category... even as ridiculous as they were one of the two might still be considered canon with the Metaness of having the movie in the Matrix Resurrections if it is supposed to be a movie that other blue pills have seen and the other doesn't create any timeline inconsistency it's just a silly story

I try to take the game with a grain of salt. The training programs, running away from agents in the sewers with the crew, and rescuing the other potentials ("Consider what we have seen, Councillor. Consider that in the past 6 months we have freed more minds than in 6 years.") are all a part of my head canon as I feel like it expands and fills in some of the blanks from the movies

So, with the Oracle explaining exiles in Reloaded, in theory, could that be expanded to a shadow person seeing as how they are mythological/paranormal?

Alias Trinity

I try to take the game with a grain of salt. The training programs, running away from agents in the sewers with the crew, and rescuing the other potentials ("Consider what we have seen, Councillor. Consider that in the past 6 months we have freed more minds than in 6 years.") are all a part of my head canon as I feel like it expands and fills in some of the blanks from the movies

You can't take a game seriously when this is what the final battle gets changed to

Image attachment

1

"At this point, it's martyr time. Now maybe that works in a movie, but in a video game..." That's sort of exactly what I mean, which I hope isn't to far off topic. That's what makes this scene (which I only saw in part so far) interesting I think. The Wachowskis are sitting and discussing the underlying story and how compromises are made for the medium, and I think that this scene is somewhat implied in every work. Not because they need to rely on playing "fast and loose" with canon, most things fit fine together in most cases and Path of Neo is the biggest outlier. But there are things they probably do to make that story fit film as well, events happen in a large part due to pacing concerns, keeping engagement, developing shorthands visually and aurally that gesture to what you want to say. I think that while greater storytelling liberties are taken in Path of Neo, it's worth considering that some events happen as they do in the films for film reasons just as some happen in a game for game reasons. (edited)

muse

"At this point, it's martyr time. Now maybe that works in a movie, but in a video game..." That's sort of exactly what I mean, which I hope isn't to far off topic. That's what makes this scene (which I only saw in part so far) interesting I think. The Wachowskis are sitting and discussing the underlying story and how compromises are made for the medium, and I think that this scene is somewhat implied in every work. Not because they need to rely on playing "fast and loose" with canon, most things fit fine together in most cases and Path of Neo is the biggest outlier. But there are things they probably do to make that story fit film as well, events happen in a large part due to pacing concerns, keeping engagement, developing shorthands visually and aurally that gesture to what you want to say. I think that while greater storytelling liberties are taken in Path of Neo, it's worth considering that some events happen as they do in the films for film reasons just as some happen in a game for game reasons. (edited)

I think that's a really good way to put it. The source material is portrayed accurately, but in order to make the game longer/playable/more interesting, creative liberties needed to be taken

The point that I'm making is that PON is the Only installment to have glaring inconsistencies and continuity problems and even then they took the time to explain why

4:05

Now I choose not to consider the 2 Bagge comics canon, but If you considered them canon, it isn't completely rewriting events since none of them took place in the films (edited)

4:05

ETM is directly tied to the Reloaded events

Deleted User

So, with the Oracle explaining exiles in Reloaded, in theory, could that be expanded to a shadow person seeing as how they are mythological/paranormal?

Of course you have. Every time you’ve heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you’ve ever heard about vampires, werewolves, or aliens is the system assimilating some program that’s doing something they’re not supposed to be doing. (edited)

4:08

Seems legit

For sure, and that is a reason it is sensible to consider it noncanon. But then if a movie, comic, or game later draws on a detail (probably a less ridiculous one) and contextualizes it in it's own story, then that would complicate things. I think when it diverges it certain may not be canon, but some things contradict more than others and with the non-contradictory details they are coming from the Wachowskis no? I don't think anyone here would suggest the ending of Path of Neo is "the real canon", but I might be mistaken. On film liberties, take Neo jumping into Agent Smith. That is a highly symbolic loaded gesture and a visual callback to the first film with a twist (reversing the roles). It was probably that first and foremost when written, and not like any particular in-universe rational thing. I might be wrong, just a guess. I think it can also be an in universe rational thing, it's not inexplicable. But it is meant to be interpreted, a big part of the movies is creating room for interpretation and suggestive possible interpretations. Not just thematic interpretations but in universe ones as well, you can read it different ways. .

4:20

There is even a sense in which the vast differences in at least the ending makes sense. The end of the Smith virus was so cataclysmic and likely so high level (whatever it was) and powerful that I think most people who had some experience with it would have a different story about what happened. All of them would probably be capturing some element of truth. Depending on how that story was told, different details would also get highlighted different and different limitations and possibilities would present themselves in trying to gesture towards the same underlying thing. Save for in The Animatrix at least, most of the Matrix media isn't explicitly a story being conveyed in universe, but I think implicitly they all are subject to those same conditions. I'm not sure the Wachowksis see themselves as building a canon as much as building something that can be built on, although I think because the games never really hit we never got to see that expanded universe really flourish organically (I could imagine if MxO succeeded more comics and other tie ins might happen with different creatives, with a similar approval process).

muse

There is even a sense in which the vast differences in at least the ending makes sense. The end of the Smith virus was so cataclysmic and likely so high level (whatever it was) and powerful that I think most people who had some experience with it would have a different story about what happened. All of them would probably be capturing some element of truth. Depending on how that story was told, different details would also get highlighted different and different limitations and possibilities would present themselves in trying to gesture towards the same underlying thing. Save for in The Animatrix at least, most of the Matrix media isn't explicitly a story being conveyed in universe, but I think implicitly they all are subject to those same conditions. I'm not sure the Wachowksis see themselves as building a canon as much as building something that can be built on, although I think because the games never really hit we never got to see that expanded universe really flourish organically (I could imagine if MxO succeeded more comics and other tie ins might happen with different creatives, with a similar approval process).

On your last point, I think that sentiment really makes sense. From the films we got comics, the Animatrix, and hundreds of fanfics, all of which truly made the films feel like something that belonged to all of us. There are fanfics out there that seriously deserve to be canon. Based on what little we've seen so far, I've literally read stories with similar ideas. I feel like the canon is whatever we want it to be

I think all that applies to the non PON installments. In fact, I've specifically talked about how the Wachowskis allowed other creatives to build within the existing universe they created. In the case of the Matrix online Rarebit was told that he couldn't do anything to break the symbiotic relationship between man & machine. The collaborators still had rules to follow in order to maintain a designed consistency. My interpretation of the speech before MegaSmith is that they got paid to make some cool button smashing merch, and took a break on caring about all the consistency. And I respected the honesty, I had a lot of fun playing it, and was glad I rented it instead of buying it because I beat it in like 2 or 3 days. Flipside I'm not going to cherry pick scenes out of the game, to say one scene is canon & another is not. And there are plenty of people who view Mxo the same way I feel about PON, but most of them didn't play Mxo, or know anything about Paul Chadwick or the Wachowski involvement. I've seen enough to be confident that there will, at the very least be Mxo influences in Resurrections. I imagine that Lana will have some clever way to play past those events without erasing them from the universe completely. We'll see soon. It would be out of character to not have Mxo connections to Resurrections and I say that because ETM directly ties into the films, there are Animatrix episodes that tie directly into the films, and Matrix comics that tie into characters in the films. PoN is the only installment that changes things from the films. I can’t get jiggy with calling that canon with regard to the "official" storyline when the creators themselves said, hey guys this is just a video game. Yet the other 2 video games that exist made a direct effort towards continuity.

Alias Trinity

On your last point, I think that sentiment really makes sense. From the films we got comics, the Animatrix, and hundreds of fanfics, all of which truly made the films feel like something that belonged to all of us. There are fanfics out there that seriously deserve to be canon. Based on what little we've seen so far, I've literally read stories with similar ideas. I feel like the canon is whatever we want it to be

I'd say that the franchise is specifically designed for audience participation and encourages people to find their own answers. The Wachowskis didn't specifically talk about certain things so that what they said wouldn't become dogma & debates could continue as they still do. But if canon was whatever you want it to be, I don't think Lilly Wachowski would've denounced the use of the red pill on Twitter and all that. It clearly wasn't designed to be Qanon material, but people took it down that path because it's open to interpretation and building and remixing or whatever term you like. That's why I try to stick to the dialogue as much as possible but I digress... I've seen my share of really bad Matrix takes. If it's problematic to the 'official' story I'll call it out. In the case of PON I feel as though I don't have to because they owned it themselves.

That is a very interesting example, because I think it shows that there are thematic elements that are essential as far the Wachowskis are concerned. In some sense, certain values are "less canon" than even the wildest plot ideas in Path of Neo or any other work, because the values are part of the story they gesturing to even more than the narrative itself. I think that is why they give that little spiel discussing the themes and don't just jump into a different ending that is fun. They want you to hear those themes, even if in a comedic format, because that is something they feel is part of the "essential" story they are pointing to. .

5:26

I think it is both relevant and not too political to say that these films are made people who have their own spiritual and social values, two of these films end with Rage Against the Machine songs which (like every Rage song) wears its politics on its sleeve. When you have trans creators with these values, and the films are that up front about those values, taking them the way the incels and Qanon types have deviates from gesturing towards anything like what any other Matrix media is gesturing towards, whereas at least Path of Neo is pointing in the general direction most the time (and seemed to be considered so by the Wachowskis). If I were to think about canon as a sliding scale of how much a work is pulled on or not contradicted (in spirit or detail, theme or plot) by other works (and maybe how likely they will be pulled on or contradicted), the scale would probably go: the trilogy (and 4 when it comes out) are obviously "most canon", Enter the Matrix and Animatrix after that (but so close to the trilogy that it might be useless distinction), MxO and the comics somewhere after that, and Path of Neo after that. Based on the varying degrees of experience with and knowledge of them I have of course. So, I don't think all things all views are equally valid myself, but I do think that many distinct views are comparably valid and that almost all views do highlight something interesting and useful.

By raw definition yea, Pon has Warner Brothers & the Wachowskis names on it thus making it an "official" IP... yet if we're having a lore conversation about what is official story in a world of content creators coming up with theories and searching for Easter eggs etc, if the idea is based on something that was solely in PoN I'm still going to snicker and/or roll my eyes

Neomatrixology

Of course you have. Every time you’ve heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you’ve ever heard about vampires, werewolves, or aliens is the system assimilating some program that’s doing something they’re not supposed to be doing. (edited)

Figures, though a Shadow person exile could make for a killer character

This conversation just makes me that much more excited to share Beyond The Glitch because it was written in a way to fit with the existing official story despite not being official. I feel like I only really saw that energy consistently in the Mxo days. Back then I was on my Terminator kick heavy, with the alternate time line factor, it wasn't a retcon at all. More like the McU civil war concept but our faction was playing with it in 05. The Mcu is definitely abusing the alternative reality idea now though. Most of the existing Matrix fan fics I've seen on YouTube are parody or use main characters. The trickster one had outstanding graphics but 0 dialogue so that could be anyone at any time on the timeline.

Deleted User

Figures, though a Shadow person exile could make for a killer character

Just write it & write it now. I'm telling you a whole wave of fan fiction is coming like you wouldn't believe

Image attachment

Neomatrixology

Just write it & write it now. I'm telling you a whole wave of fan fiction is coming like you wouldn't believe

I'm so excited for that. I already feel inspired to write again

I know @Vesuveus recently uploaded his short audio story book. I thought it captured all the right lessons in the Matrix but I won't spoil it

Alias Trinity

I'm so excited for that. I already feel inspired to write again

Hey you can't force inspiration so if you feel it... act. Write. Outline. Note ideas. Don't squander your creativity. There's an infinite renewable power source inside you

morpheus

2

1

Neomatrixology

Hey you can't force inspiration so if you feel it... act. Write. Outline. Note ideas. Don't squander your creativity. There's an infinite renewable power source inside you

Well I'm done all my marking so I guess I have the time now!

holy wall of text batman

8:30

walls

tl;dr

sixxth

tl;dr

tl;dr canon is whatever you want it to be but Path of Neo is the only extension of the franchise that deviates from the source material

info

1

breathtaking

2

Path of Neo is the canon ending as it is directly presented by the then brothers.

22:07

MegaSmith for life

22:07

The MegaSmith ending makes more sense for MxO, since we had giant fly monsters and stuff

22:07

also the ants in Path of Neo

thankfully we didnt have the ants in mxo

22:09

some other weird things tho nightmares

We had fly people

I’m immunized against the fly virus

1

Vesuveus

I’m immunized against the fly virus

Image attachment

Topical

I guess that's Aaron Rodgers?

no it's

4:48

1

idk if this has been discussed here yet or not, but i had a thought while watching an analysis video on the oracle. I wonder if they had planned to have the oracle sacrifice to save sati the entire time or if it was something they to make up on the fly after gloria foster passed away.

𝕄𝕒𝕘𝕚𝕜𝕒𝕣𝕡𝔽𝕒𝕚𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕

idk if this has been discussed here yet or not, but i had a thought while watching an analysis video on the oracle. I wonder if they had planned to have the oracle sacrifice to save sati the entire time or if it was something they to make up on the fly after gloria foster passed away.

I'm not sure, actually. I was under the impression that there was going to be the sacrificial element, but they had to add in an anecdote as to why the Oracle looked different.

either way i like how they handled it and gave the recast purpose. they easily couldve gone the other route and just claimed glitch in the matrix lol

I’ve done some research on that. Sati and family were always in the script for Revolutions as far as I can tell. The “shell change” for the Oracle however is not as clear

18:43

Rama Kandra’s scene in Reloaded was definitely a late addition. His actor wasn’t in the credit role when the film first premiered. That was changed by the full release however

It's a shame that Gloria Foster died. Mary Alice did an okay job as The Oracle but Gloria Foster really radiated that grandmother energy

3

And every mention to The Oracle where someone comments on her appearances was an edit made to an earlier finalized script. So the Oracle looking different is new. But Sati and family were in Rev from the start. Best I can figure is that Sati’s parents were cutting a deal with the Merv but the details of that deal were changed to explain why the Oracle looks different (edited)

breathtaking

1

18:47

But Joel Silver said the Wachowskis had that back up plan in their heads before scripts were finalized and they just went with it when circumstances forced their hand. That could also easily be just producer talk for “the project is fine everything’s under control stop freaking out”

breathtaking

1

Speaking of Merv: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovingian_dynasty

Merovingian dynasty

The Merovingian dynasty () was the ruling family of the Franks from the middle of the 5th century until 751. They first appear as "Kings of the Franks" in the Roman army of northern Gaul. By 509 they had united all the Franks and northern Gaulish Romans under their rule. They conquered most of Gaul, defeating the Visigoths (507) and the Burgundi...

21:12

Talked to a coworker that's from France, the Merovingians are called "the kings who did nothing" as well

yep

I do find it funny that he was paired with Persephone, the queen of the underworld and personification of spring

21:20

I don't remember the line, but didn't she say something about him being weak?

Gami

Rama Kandra’s scene in Reloaded was definitely a late addition. His actor wasn’t in the credit role when the film first premiered. That was changed by the full release however

Isn’t this just because he didn’t have lines in Reloaded?

Not sure on the specifics. I’d imagine though if he’s in the actors union cameo or not he should be there. What I can say for certain is that his scene in Reloaded was a last minute addition both to script and film and the credit roll wasn’t updated for the premiere but changed after.

Yeah, if you don't have lines SAG doesn't require the actor to be credited... they could but it isn't common

guys i was rewatching the movie and noticed that satis dad appeared talking to the merovingian in matrix reloaded

info

2

shotok052

guys i was rewatching the movie and noticed that satis dad appeared talking to the merovingian in matrix reloaded

Yeah that’s why in revolutions Neo recognises him

ohh i didn’t remember that

Anyone heard this?

Image attachment

First I’ve ever seen it

Vesuveus

Anyone heard this?

Never heard that before either. I'd wager it's a coincidence

Alias Trinity

Never heard that before either. I'd wager it's a coincidence

Image attachment

Neomatrixology

Click to see attachment 🖼️

I suppose, but I feel like I've read every fact and seen every behind the scenes clip and it's never been mentioned

‍♀️

If there's one thing I've learned... there's always something new to learn

7:44

That said... I'm not co-signing Zee Zelda has legs

breathtaking

1

Here's the first mention of the movie

7:44

https://variety.com/1994/film/news/wb-s-million-dollar-matrix-118418/

WB’s million-dollar ‘Matrix’

For the second time in two months, Warner Bros. has agreed to pay at least $ 1 million for an action script by writing duo Larry and Andy Wachowski.

Oh, here's a fun piece of trivia and lore. An element of Zion's defense in revolutions that was cut from film was the use of a cloud particle distributed through the ventilation ducts. When a sentinel tried to use it's red lazer in the clouds it would be refracted all over the place and fired back at the source.

5

do you think agents have their own "standby" bodies?

17:41

for example during neos interrogation

17:41

would it really be necessary for them to inhabit another blue pill when not on a field mission

Inhabiting blue pills is how they move in and out of the system to rapidly respond to a situation.

17:44

So I'm sure every time they're shown on screen, they're inhabiting a blue pill body.

why did they drive to the hotel at the beginning of m1 then

17:47

sure in terms of storytelling its to keep up the illusion that the whole thing takes place in the real world for a bit longer

They have to maintain some semblance of The Matrix being "real" so it's probably easier to inhabit blue pills, get into the MiB car and then drive up like FBI agents.

okay that makes sense

Plus, they had prior communication with this police force. "Those orders were for your protection."

its strange though, cause in all the other cases they dont hesitate to throw cops under the bus either

The System seems to do things on a case by case basis. It's not a one fit all kind of thing.

true

17:52

still wonder what happens to bluepills who wanna join the agency

17:52

are they just gonna be stuck with desk jobs or what

17:53

while some guy who nobody knows, nobody went to school or to training with gets all the good jobs

I'd imagine all the alphabet soup organizations still have blue pill agents, and staff. The System doesn't care about the crimes "within" The Matrix, they're just concern about red pills hacking into The Matrix.

17:54

Like, you're not going to get an Agent to stop the Oklahoma City bombing

yeah although in case of the matrix acts like that would probably be perpetrated by redpills anyway

If there's one thing I've learned about The Machine system is that it's very compartmentalized.

17:57

Like Deus Ex Machina has nothing to do with The Architect even though they both fill similar roles.

yeah itd be very inefficient any other way

17:59

create a decent matrix AND manage the machine world

So agents seem to only be concern about red pills activities, and nothing else.

they should just send some agents to schools for "job day" or whatever its called

18:01

"so you see, miss....ANDERSON...if your kids want to....become...like us, they should stay....healthy.....do their homework and......drink their....powerade...."

18:02

question is: are certain security clearances enough to keep bluepill agents out of the program agents' business

18:03

its not like those black ops agencies you see in fiction whose existence is completely denied

18:08

wasnt there some bluepill in mxo who believed he was an agent?

I dunno, maybe in the comics?

not sure

Not sure either. I know there were some players RPing as agents, but those are non-canon.

https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Murphey

"Agent" Murphey For the gang leader, see Lt. Murphy Murphey was an unemployed Bluepill computer hacker who appeared in The Matrix Online. During Chapter 9.2.4, he was believed (by Agent Griffin) to have found a large cache of the Intruder's override programs, and that a close examination of the programs unhinged his mind. This resulted in...

David T. Gregory

do you think agents have their own "standby" bodies?

I don't have a problem with this concept, in the sense that if it's not a location specific emergency possession might not be required. They could use bodies that are purposely in a coma, or specifically engineered to be Agents during office hours. Or they might be just like the Morpheus Simulacra, no real world host required. Could go a few different ways honestly (edited)

i shouldve written "standby RSIs" cause a morpheus simulacra situation is exactly what i had in mind

They might just be able to spawn in govt buildings or something

20:11

But then when u kill them no bluepill dies

20:11

How many times do they die in the movies ? Every time u see it the bluepill is dead

yeah but those were all emergency situations requiring a rapid response

I kind of like the Spawn point idea too...so in your interrogation example of the first film... The agents drove to Neos job & knew he would be there. They could have spawned in the government building or nearby police station perhaps and drove over there as it didn't require a rapid response and they planned to arrest Neo so they'd need a ride back

yup, especially since using out-of-this-world techniques to bug him may not have been the original plan anyway

20:32

just a regular interrogation

I think that Agents return to the source when they're not on assignment. I'm basing this on Smith's desire to get out of the Matrix, I think he would only be so desperate to get out of the Matrix if he'd been somewhere else, somewhere that didn't 'smell'. I think it's possible Agents have a function in the real world too - in the first film they seem to have authority over the sentinels.

1

ok so I get that in a world of hovercrafts, fusion, and supercomputers, a straight piece of metal with a razor edge isn't the hardest piece of technology to develop and maintain

17:04

but Link and Councilor West are the only named bearded protags in the series

17:04

why's it taken a fourth movie for us to get a bearded protagonist?

17:04

why wouldn't more hvcft crews rock beards, cold as it gets out there, close to the surface?

Hey, some people can't grow a proper beard. Like me.

stash counts!

17:08

gotta keep that upper lip warm!

I was unable to grow beard for a long while. Only in last years I managed to grow something that looks quite decent

Yea, my mustache game is on point. I just have a really patchy beard

The answer is: beards were wildly unpopular in the 90s, and now a civil war beard is standard issue

1

After 26 years in the military I can’t stand growing one. I’ve tried like 4-5 times and it always ends up feeling there are bugs on my face .

Don't they have beards in there?

Only operators.

Link!

Beard is the best thing in the world. Trust me

I'm listening to a milfic book and one of the Ranger snipers named Thor changed his last name to Odinson and picked up Norse religious exemption just so he could grow a badass operator beard. Except he also reeeally gets into it lol

Not for me

0:35

Just recently they tightened the grooming standards back up for operators, but before that they pretty much all had beards.

Operators rock!

Fun thing I didn't really notice I'm the matrix wh n Morpheus was doing his desert of the real bit

5:49

That he says that plugged humans "...along with a form of fusion" make for all the energy they'd ever need. Just before neo flips out (edited)

5:51

So you can use that when someone says it's silly premise to use them as only batteries. It still is a bit, but their energy isn't only from humans

Beleos

So you can use that when someone says it's silly premise to use them as only batteries. It still is a bit, but their energy isn't only from humans

But the thing is, if you know even the littlest thing about nuclear reaction, you know that nuclear fusion would give the machines all the power they would ever need. Nuclear fusion is far more efficient as an energy source than Nuclear fission which is what we're using now.

12:06

So if the machines had Nuclear Fusion, why the fuck would they need humans for energy?

1

Prison industrial complex

12:16

It's one of the many important subtext in the franchise. They don't need to do it... they choose to, same as this turd who received poetic justice :

Which turd?

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2021/mar/1/no-sentence-reduction-former-pennsylvania-judge-who-was-caging-kids-kickback-cash/

Ooh, yeah good point

23:59

Also adds something to that the machines would rather keep humans pacified than wholly exterminated

I wonder how widespread their fusion power is or how important it is to their power generation that the architect implies losing all humans is bad, but not so bad ”There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. " Idk, random floating thought.

Beleos

I wonder how widespread their fusion power is or how important it is to their power generation that the architect implies losing all humans is bad, but not so bad ”There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. " Idk, random floating thought.

That line "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept." has always intrigued me. It's never really expanded upon in any of the other Matrix media, so we don't know what The Machines contingency plan is if they do lose their crops of humans.

19:04

What would the machines have to do to survive without humans?

Fight for power apparently

19:22

I assumed convert/revert to Nuclear power and Geothermic heat originally

The real question is why don't the machines just create tech to unblock the sun

19:23

EZ, just convert to solar power

In Revolutions, when the hovercraft broke through the cloud, it killed the electricity system in the hovercraft.

19:25

So the Dark Storm clouds has some EMP properties.

It might not even be the Dark Storm that killed the Hovercraft Electricity

Either way, the machines can't break through because it kills their electrical systems.

The machines, or at least the higher ups, are willing to amputate themselves to maintain their system and power and not lose face to the resistance. It's super interesting, and equally dark

send a rocket with a combustion engine up. have its payload be a nanotech collector and a mechanical timer that dismantles the rocket once a certain time is up, so the collector is deployed. retrieve it via parachute. analyze the nanotech responsible for darkening the sky. then develop countermeasures. send another rocket like the first one up to deploy countermeasures. end of story

21:52

no electrical systems required

Or just use the rocket itself to collect some of the air

22:02

Not even that complex

22:03

make the glass in a certain room weak enough to shatter upon reaching the same height as the storm, once the air floods into the rocket, have a pressure measure detect the change in pressure and seal down a metal door to keep the air from escaping

true, i was just considering a single use fire-and-forget rocket so there arent any measures, even mechanical ones, to get messed up

It depends on how the EMP works

22:11

Does it disable advanced technology or all tech?

I thought EMP only disabled electrical systems

It's an electromagnetic pulse

22:18

It'll likely fry anything that runs off circuitry as well

So we'd have to get old school with the rocket.

I’m sure ACME has something they could use

a gigantic catapult, like really gigantic

1:24

of course it misfires and crashes the main server of the matrix

1:24

closeup squiddy with a "fuck my life" stare

cut to an agent glitching tf out

Ok but what about this, i have a theory about drugs and cigarettes, they are blue pills mixed in the substance to keep them farther from reality, the Oracle being the balance of both eats candy (red pills relodaded) and smokes ö

Blue pills don’t do that. Nor is that necessary.

TheAnimator

Ok but what about this, i have a theory about drugs and cigarettes, they are blue pills mixed in the substance to keep them farther from reality, the Oracle being the balance of both eats candy (red pills relodaded) and smokes ö

Reminds me of a fanfic I read a long time ago. It was A Scanner Darkly/Matrix crossover. Similar concept

If someone is oblivious to the Matrix, no need to make them less aware.

16:56

I don’t think the blue pill in the original trilogy did anything. Sugar pill. I think fanfic used it as a tool for mind esaser or drowsiness

I think the blue pill is more symbolic than anything else. If they pick the blue pill, then they've chosen to stay asleep. Nothing more needs to be done.

I always thought it did something like: made you forget meeting with moshimo

18:24

you wake up in your bed without memory of meeting any of them, or something like that

Image attachment

LOLFACEMATRIX

1

sixxth

you wake up in your bed without memory of meeting any of them, or something like that

I think it does that "wake up" thing we see in the first movie, but it's up to the person to decide if it was real or not.

the blue pill is just an antipsychotic

23:14

like haloperidol

23:15

moderate sedative effect

23:15

high antipsychotic effect

23:15

basically it makes you think "what the fuck is going on here" and then you sleep

23:16

btw, dont fuck around with antipsychotics, kids. theyre the most worthless drugs youll ever encounter, if you arent actually psychotic (edited)

something else; about the original trilogy:

23:34

are just a couple of phones available as exits?

23:35

especially in m1: neos running through half a district, yet all he gets is an exit in an abandoned hotel. so what makes a hardline an actual exit?

23:35

why not leave via payphone or whatever

I think hardlines are hacked phonelines that redpills use to get in and out of The Matrix. They don't hack every phoneline because that draws too much attention from The System. So they're very selective about which phone lines to hack and when to open up that hardline.

makes sense

23:51

pre-hacked hardlines...yeah, you wouldnt want too many of those, especially in heavily frequented places

I'm more curious about the hack that Switch did to get Trinity as close to the power plant as he could to save the mission. He said it was the ugliest hack he's ever done.

well she got pursued by agents pretty quickly so it can be assumed he used some nasty coverups to distract them first

23:54

hack an immense mess into nearby hardlines to draw attention and stuff

I'm just wondering if hardlines is the only way into The Matrix or if it's the most efficient way into The Matrix.

23:56

Could Link actually spawn Trinity on that roof top with the motorcycle?

why not

23:56

just takes a shitload of effort

23:56

and bending the rules

23:57

i think it doesnt matter whether you only spawn an operative or some equipment too

It's an interesting thought

greatest problem would be any inherent defenses, firewalls, whatever

True

Could you be the One as an operator, or do you need to be in the system?

3:56

Maybe that connection Neo exhibits to the machines could be what one version of the One actually focused on, instead of fighting in the Matrix. Then he could be on the front lines of the human-machine war perhaps and only travel into the Matrix to reset it after first establishing terms for a new Zion or whatever. (edited)

You need to be in the system. One of The One’s purposes is to return to the Source. You cant do that as an old fashion home grown human. At least by any means we see Neo arrive there

Oooh, I see I guess an Operator has always been freeborn presumably? (edited)

4:44

At least I'd think so, if you can jack in I guess you probably would (just be more advantageous), unless it's a skillset thing

I guess there’s nothing keeping a red pill from being an operator. Morpheus and Cypher both appear to be able to read what’s on the monitors so presumably they could do the job. But yeah think it’s more of a why would you limit them to that role when they could also be used inside the matrix

I'm not sure if it's been discussed here before and I apologize if it has. But what do y'all think of the Twins (from Reloaded) having been obsolete versions of Agents?

19:12

Their incorporeal form being what was replaced by current version Agent's super reflexes

19:13

I know Seraph was one. He was an Agent 1.0 (edited)

I'd believe it. I probably considered that back when I first saw it. Sharply dressed, deadpan delivery, able to dodge(phase) bullets.. (edited)

I believe The Twins were Agents from the Hell Matrix.

1

Metalogic

I believe The Twins were Agents from the Hell Matrix.

That's what I figured. All his henchmen are. Seraph is from the past as well

Seraph is from the Heaven Matrix

Did the twins get an action figure when hot toys / mcfarlane was doing those?

I have no idea

looks like it

Image attachment

20:16

Image attachment

Tactical squat

bulletdodge squat.

What keeps up in my mind current: What happens, when the humans in the matrix do the same as they've done in the real world in past: create AI. What will this mean for the machines? When I see the trailer for Matrix4 the humans made a huge step into this future.

Probably clever manipulation to make sure it always fails or never gets smarter than a Google assistant equivalent

That would mean to manipulate a lot of groups who are thinking about that. All over the world.

When you literally control the very world they live in, I don’t think that’s exactly difficult to do

22:09

The other idea thrown around is the Matrix is reset in its time space upon reboot.

22:10

So even if man gets close by 1999 they’re kicked back to 1969 or something

So do the Goliath-thing. Hm. Possible. Smith said, that the reset/ restructure process from the previous matrox version also forced a lot of people to die/ unable to get power from. If they reset the matrix all the time, because the humans grown up in their own evolutional inner mind they have - what will another option for the machines be to handle this? As far as I understood there is a huge power inside every human and even if you reset their memories, there is still this one desire in their mind. Like we've seen in the animatrix-part, where the black guy still wants to feel the freedom - even after his memory and body was crippled.

Smiths talking about the first matrix. Before the cycle before the One before Zion.

22:25

That said I’m not a fan of the “reboot” theory and don’t believe it’s an actual occurrence. (edited)

I was reading a Reddit thread last night about humans "coming online" or when they had their first memory or when they were first self aware. That had me thinking a bit. What if babies born inside The Matrix are just programs at first, but once that programs get hooked up to an actual human child, that child "comes online?"

youre always online, you just cant form long term memories before 5ish

3:05

so you just dont remember anything you did

3:06

they showed a pretty young baby in a pod in m1 too

True

3:06

I think my first memory was me thinking I had another face on the other side of my head. My second memory is me playing with rubber dinosaurs with my Dad and my older brother.

3:07

I had a blue Brontosaurus and I was playing that he was walking from the kitchen to the living room.

And your next memory is how you use psychokinesis on 3 cubes + the Brontosaurus.

Imagine being one of the kids from the oracle. Spoon kid had a terrible past.

Metalogic

Seraph is from the Heaven Matrix

I thought it was called Paradise Matrix?

Heaven, Paradise, Potato, Potahto (edited)

seraph is a char id like to learn more about

18:40

he used to be an "angel", then worked for merv and now he protects the oracle and is good at martial arts

18:40

thats not much of a backstory

We need a one off movie about Seraph

2

Metalogic

We need a one off movie about Seraph

Without a doubt, as he is just kind of plopped into Reloaded. Though I hope a movie about him would also expand on Paradise Matrix.

So what’s the call on discussing Resurrections lore implications? Or to put it another way; when can we discuss the new movie in the lore channel?

nah has to go to m4-spoilers

Time frame on that?

now

9:48

#m4-spoilers

Nah, that channels kinda a mess atm.

matrixredpill

1

Im pretty sure anywhere the movie is discussed in this disc will be a mess for a while lol

1

Not wrong

1st Matrix had Angels and Seraphims, that much is clear 2nd Matrix had Werewolves, Vampires, and Ghosts and the lot 3rd is unknown 4th is unknown 5th is unknown 6th is pretty normal 7th adopts too many elements from 6th to be considered a new version

As far as agents, there were commando agents and Monk agents somewhere in there. Plus alternate agents like in World Record.

in what?

This new version of the Masteix is very different than 6. The former was under a Choice paradigm with the Cycle of the One. The latter does not implement the Cycle.

Vagus Truman🗕🗗🗙

in what?

In your list of versions.

no

20:08

what the hell is World Record

a short film found in the animatrix collection

oh?

20:10

also, here's something that came to me

20:11

can the Machines be creative?

20:11

or do they rely on humans for more than just bioelectricity?

rama kandra and kamala created their daughter sati

They can, but that implies the Oracle. All others, not so much

because they mainly based their design on human creation

20:12

so that leaves the Machines with two problems

20:12

1. Choice 2. Source of methods and ideas (edited)

well the matrix is made for humans to be accepted as reality so that has to be the basic concept behind machine creativity, at least inside the matrix

but then comes along the creation of the cities

20:13

cities that are based on human design

20:13

and the interpertation of the programs

20:13

the form they take in the Matrix

20:14

all follow human social standards, with the highest authroity dressed in the human standard of formal

20:14

...

20:14

unless they invented it first

20:15

but the cities have definity been around before the first AI was formed, right?

theres a shitload of AI programs already which can create all kinds of images that range from being at the very least a recognizable representation of a real world concept to being indistinguishable from a real photo

20:17

so in all these years id expect AI to have improved a lot, thus creating believable cities from old historic records doesnt seem that implausible

Especially when so many are just copy paste with a handful of “identifiers”

look at this for example

Image attachment

Vagus Truman🗕🗗🗙

1st Matrix had Angels and Seraphims, that much is clear 2nd Matrix had Werewolves, Vampires, and Ghosts and the lot 3rd is unknown 4th is unknown 5th is unknown 6th is pretty normal 7th adopts too many elements from 6th to be considered a new version

1st Matrix is paradise 2nd Matrix is human history. The folklore angle is a retcon by MxO that they got fundamentally wrong 3rd matrix is human history + choice and makes up the six cycles of Zion’s creation and destruction.

made by a free online image generator AI with the prompt "manhattan skyline"

20:20

at the very least you can tell what the AI was going for

20:21

and compared to what future machines will most likely be capable of, this AI is basically just pong

...

20:21

got it

20:23

so in a sense

"chicago skyline", no particular reason to share it aside from me thinking its beautiful

Image attachment

Machines scarred humans by more than just taking away freedom and their perception of reality

20:23

but also the ideas from which they operate by

20:23

...

20:23

but then that leaves the existence of the Strawberries a paradox

although id argue that happened more out of necessity

that's a definite element that existed before, right?

yeah

ok

20:24

so some semblence of the real world survived the evolutions of the matrix

If you haven’t watched it you should check out the Animatrix. Second Ren to be specific. The Machines spent a lot of time studying humans to get the simulation working

yeah but who knows if the machines got it "right"

David T. Gregory

yeah but who knows if the machines got it "right"

...

20:25

goddamnit I missed Mouse

the other point thats not explicitly mentioned by mouse is: whod know any better?

20:27

all is lost, the earth is fucked, no real strawberries are left and nobody can confirm whether or not the ones in the matrix are an accurate replica

...

20:27

oh god

20:27

what if the humans never looked like that before?

20:27

now that's a trip

20:28

cause they might have altered the human body to be more efficent at pumping out the bioelectricity

It’s not as complex as Mouse makes it out to be. A simple study of the chemical composition of a food and how it interacts with the brain would give an account for the “taste”.

20:28

It’s all just electrical signals as Morpheus puts it

true

David T. Gregory

true

...

only problem might be that theres nothing left to study

oh I had a funny thought

20:28

the machines took over the primates first

20:29

and "evolved" humans over time afterward

20:29

I mean, aliens exist

20:29

so

then again they could probably grow simulated strawberries sourced by previous botanical knowledge

20:30

AND if a species is extinct, you can simulate a world where it never existed and nobody would even care

20:31

we wouldnt give a fuck about extinct animal species, if they werent documented somewhere or remains would be found

20:31

good old 1984 memory hole

you know what I hope for, tho?

what is it

the Analyst took the idea of Swarm Mode from Reloaded, with the Smiths vs Neo fight

20:33

and Neo created the Matrix 1 Modal with elements of Smith

20:33

any chance there is a Modal out there with Smith Prime lurking around?

i hope so

Hey I have a question about Neo

20:36

Could Neo be infact the Hard Drive to the Matrix?

David T. Gregory

i hope so

cause I was thinking of getting the neo-Smith (Groff) to be uploaded with the data of Prime Smith

20:36

and rise back into former glory

20:36

same goes for the Merovingian

20:36

...

20:36

and maybe Oracle too

havent watched 4 yet so cant give any definitive answer

...

20:37

MOTHERFU

20:38

ill shut up

20:38

I thought from the strawberry comment you watched 4

nope

20:39

i just had way too much time in my life for tackling general philosophical topics and deduced that the strawberry thing was about getting it right

so many of you are more familiar with the deeper lore than I am. I'm getting there, but its a lot to catch up on. I wanted to share my theory and see if anyone has any thoughts: What is life? What if all of the "souls" which make up all forms of intelligence are all actually parts of a greater whole. Given enough time, the universe will continue to expand, splintering into more and more individual intelligences until gravity overcomes the rate of expansion. At which point time begins to move in reverse, pulling all intelligence into itself in an effort to form one perfect mind. Every time it achieves this goal, it causes time to again reverse back to its normal flow. An endless cycle of time. Now hear me out. What if Neo and Trinity are moving in opposite directions in time relative to one another? The system (universe) is trying to keep them apart but they always seem to intersect at just the right time to trigger the power shift from machine to man and vice versa? This would mean that machine Neo and machine Trinity have existed at some point. Both of my theories imply that the matrix storyline goes further into the far future than most people realize. The events of the newest film could be taking place hundreds or thousands of years in either the past or the future. Does time lose relevance if you begin to understand that it is just another system of control?

5

5

5

5

Okay, let's keep M4 topics in #m4-spoilers

ok it took me forever to type that so i need some clarification where specific topics belong.

!warn Cyon

Command: !warn

Description: Warn a member Cooldown: 3 seconds Usage: !warn [user] [reason] Example: !warn @NoobLance Stop posting lewd images

im getting a warning because I made a mistake?

Cyon

ok it took me forever to type that so i need some clarification where specific topics belong.

https://discord.com/channels/137006126100250624/616282864421437459/922887782068781086

Cyon

im getting a warning because I made a mistake?

That's why it's only a warning.

Metalogic

That's why it's only a warning.

if the server rules are to be believed, literally everyone has broken those rules multiple times, but I digress. You are this matrix's version of god, and I can not argue with you. LOL

12:27

i just got caught while you were looking

Oh trust me, there's a reason @Manic Velocity picked the people he did for the mod team & there's a reason I keep the same team.

4

i think that belongs in memes. Could be wrong.

do we know the main contributors to the matrix wiki?

Pretty sure most have moved on. Not that it matters, most of what’s on there is unsourced and fan theory

breathtaking

2

Well most of the "core" info is pretty solid, I just noticed a bunch of mistakes here and there. But it's whatever, we'll live

So does anyone have a list of all of the limited edition Matrix promo stuff going on? I saw there was a watch, pair of sunglasses, and beanie that are all officially licensed. I also got an ad for something related to Denny's

16:12

I also saw Facebook video calls had a filter but I couldn't get it to work

This should probably be in #the-matrix-resurrections as it has nothing to do with Lore, but MX4 marketing tie-ins. Mind moving it?

18:49

@Crow I'd much rather not delete it, it's an honest mistake

Question. Since Smith has always been a program inside the matrix and not a human. What would happen if he was “red pilled” hypothetically? Would it be the same as discount Morpheus?

just wondering if anyone had thought of this

i don’t think he could be “red pilled” since he’s a computer program to be designed as he is

Yea, I think Simuclara Morpheus was a special case

Bugs doesn't act like it's anything unusual

2:11

I think he would also get an exomorph like Morpheus, but he could also store himself in a machine like Sati does instead of getting extracted

I know Smith is an exile, but I don't think he sees himself as an Exile.

2:12

Smith never worked for The Merovingian, so he didn't come back through Mobil Ave.

Smith is one of those "Free Travelers" who doesnt see them as part of any system and is their own nation.

1

Ebola

Smith is one of those "Free Travelers" who doesnt see them as part of any system and is their own nation.

Oh, those Sovereign Citizens people.

2:30

"AM I BEING DETAINED!? AM I BEING ARRESTED!?"

Exiles can totally have more than one faction including unaligned or solo (Sati), but I think a good many owe their continued lives to Merv

I think the only reason Sati isn't working for The Merovingian is because of The Oracle and her father.

They worked out that deal way back when they first got her in

3:25

Makes sense yeah

Ebola

Smith is one of those "Free Travelers" who doesnt see them as part of any system and is their own nation.

Yeah he definitely became his own virus in 2 and 3 but he was very much an agent in part one. I wonder what would happen if the part 1 version of smith got red pilled

Technically, Smith was human for a bit

Yup! But that Smith is probably dead. I figure since that single Smith shard left the matrix and is essentially disconnected from his main self in the matrix. Like how agents seem to be able to share information without speaking, each Smith in the matrix is part of a collective consciousness of himself, and the BaneSmith got seperated when he went into the real and didn't come back. That's my read on it at least (edited)

Kind of interesting that Bane-Smith cut himself. I guess he really hated being inside a human flesh sack

Yeah, right?

"It's the Smell Popper."

Or also, like, the overwhelming sensations of being human

3:08

He liked the new pain

I mean, we basically have meat tissue that somehow produces electricity and that's how our brain functions.

3:09

So yea, I can see how that'd be overwhelming for a program

Wanted to see what all the fuss was about XD

Me: "Yea, Smith, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Trust me, you're better off as a program."

He's having fun cutting himself, but first time he bites his tongue, Smith will have second thoughts

Metalogic

Kind of interesting that Bane-Smith cut himself. I guess he really hated being inside a human flesh sack

He was figuring out this new experience. He never felt pain. It was a new sensation for him.

That tracks, yeah

BaneSmith was legit creepy for what bits he got to chew on the moment

1

Beleos

BaneSmith was legit creepy for what bits he got to chew on the moment

Amazing, right? That actor did really fantastic job

1

so whats the ultimate goal of the machines regarding the programming of the matrix itself

19:19

i feel like the architect was going for a system that only needs minor maintenance every now and then

19:21

keep it running the way it is for as long as possible. i never got the impression that the guy was even planning to act, unless there was a real catastrophic system failure, like the matrix betas

1

Based on the Analyst I'd say the answer to your question is efficiency. That's why he was able to replace the Architect, his new Neo___Trinity close but not too close technique produced more power, whereas the truce did the exact opposite so old Colonel Sanders got fired

1

I like what both of you have said here, @David T. Gregory and @Neomatrixology. I would add that like in similar creator-vs.-human texts (e.g. Frankenstein, Battlestar Galactica and Blade Runner), as they advance the machines come to ironically embody the same imperfections that have plagued humanity, whether it be anger, spite or revenge. While the earlier versions of the matrix were simply about controlling their former masters, there was some goodwill in the sense of creating a virtual utopia. As time goes on and humanity causes more problems or rejects perfection in the beta, programs such as the Analyst want to ramp up the manipulation and misery for energy gains. (edited)

5:51

Ive been showing my fiancee BSG for the first time, shes loving it. It's the first time I've watched it since it originally aired, still sooooo good.

5

It’s truly an excellent show and I’m glad that you love it too! I did a similar thing with my wife last year and while it wasn’t her preference, she acknowledged that it was really clever. Awesome music, like The Matrix, but obviously with a different sound and blend of styles.

5:54

What has she enjoyed most about it?

I've gotta watch bsg again too, coming up on a decade removed for me. Bear McCrearys cover of all along the watchtower still haunts me

1

I went to a huge amount of effort to source the soundtrack CDs but in the last year they’ve added them to streaming services, along with a live album, which is great too.

martinfeld

What has she enjoyed most about it?

She loves the music, story, acting, etc. She just wants Baltar to die ASAP. We are about five episodes into season 3 right now

2

Ebola

She loves the music, story, acting, etc. She just wants Baltar to die ASAP. We are about five episodes into season 3 right now

Haha yes, he can be intensely frustrating. I find James Callis hilarious as Baltar; he also plays a great role in Bridget Jones's Diary.

He's also Belmont in the Netflix Castlevania and is great in that too

Beleos

He's also Belmont in the Netflix Castlevania and is great in that too

Had no idea! Thanks for the tip.

He voices Alucard not Belmont

8:05

Richard Armitage voices Trevor Belmont

Oop, yep, my b

frackin toasters

15:46

BSG indeed great

@Neomatrixology @martinfeld sry for the late reply. as i mentioned in another channel the pursuits of the machines seem kinda weird to me. using neo, trinity (and smith to an extent) as the ultimate power source (or at least a catalysator) feels like trying to build a nuclear reactor out of plywood. it may function for a brief moment but...shits about to go massively wrong eventually, in this case due to their strong personalities and convictions. same thing with the architects matrix. sure, it worked for six iterations, yet in the sixth one there were so many massive deviations (the rise of smith, neo choosing to save trinity over saving humanity as a whole) that it ultimately led to the truce. id expect a bit more foresight from machines who are able to produce a simulated world thats 99.99999...% indistinguishable from the real world

1

19:54

also dont forget the exiles, which - had the architects concept continued - mightve grown into a gigantic compound error eventually

19:54

many survived every reload

19:54

and thus their forces wouldve grown stronger and stronger over centuries

I'll take 6 centuries over 6 decades all day everyday

still: in a system thats meant to last for an indefinite amount of time thats nothing

19:57

im just saying: all matrixes are destined to fail eventually unless there are constant adaptations - and maybe ive missed something but it doesnt seem like that was even planned at all

Neomatrixology

I'll take 6 centuries over 6 decades all day everyday

Hello. I watch your videos

15:28

If someone is fat in the matrix will he get slim in the real world?

Neomatrixology

I'll take 6 centuries over 6 decades all day everyday

Have you seen Nostalgia Critic's videos? He made reviews of The Matrix trilogy and Animatrix (edited)

Inland Republic

If someone is fat in the matrix will he get slim in the real world?

I'd say that if someone is overweight inside the Matrix they might be slim in the real world since their diet would be regulated either by pod, or real world scarcity. Can't say I've seen nostalgia critic videos off the top of my head. When I first started the channel a few years ago I could watch most Matrix related videos but there has certainly been an expected surge in Matrix related YouTube content

Neomatrixology

I'd say that if someone is overweight inside the Matrix they might be slim in the real world since their diet would be regulated either by pod, or real world scarcity. Can't say I've seen nostalgia critic videos off the top of my head. When I first started the channel a few years ago I could watch most Matrix related videos but there has certainly been an expected surge in Matrix related YouTube content

Nostalgia Critic dislikes the matrix films even the 1st one. He asked one question why do machines need the matrix to control people if they can put people just in coma

Yeah, that is actually a major reason I started my channel. I grew real tired of watching YouTube Matrix content videos made by people who clearly didn't even like the films.

He said that acting in the Matrix is bad and people act like machines

17:07

He represented you and every matrix fan as an Agent Smith parody

17:10

Do people in the west hate Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions? I am from Ukraine

I'd say the answer to that question is that people aren't producing nearly as much energy if they were merely in a 'coma'... I get it that the science is fiction, but that part of that fiction was explained in the films. I'd say the prison industrial complex subtext is more in the 2nd Renaissance and the Architect Speech gave a small hint towards that aspect as well.

Neomatrixology

I'd say the answer to that question is that people aren't producing nearly as much energy if they were merely in a 'coma'... I get it that the science is fiction, but that part of that fiction was explained in the films. I'd say the prison industrial complex subtext is more in the 2nd Renaissance and the Architect Speech gave a small hint towards that aspect as well.

He also asked well why noone guards disconnected humans and why Agent Smith can't find Neo easily in his office

17:14

1st one is explained by Reloaded. As for Agest Smith struggling to do deep search for Neo.. I dunno

he literally did visit Neo's office as soon as they identified him as the mark ?

There are people who love the Matrix and people who don't like it all over the world. Everyone has an opinions, negative people just generally tend to have louder mouths and a stranger necessity to crave being heard and demand attention

zenconnection

he literally did visit Neo's office as soon as they identified him as the mark ?

What i mean when Neo hide in the another desk Smith should see him through walls or something

zenconnection

he literally did visit Neo's office as soon as they identified him as the mark ?

Yea man. That guys Channel doesn't seem to be one for actual Matrix fans. Sounds like just another YouTuber trying to capitalize off of the polarization and get some easy views off trending traffic

oh thats what you mean. yeah i mean it is funny that they don't get fancy stuff like wallhax, but its part of the lore that agents are given mostly human limitations

Well my only question for the matrix is why do machines need this complicated system of control with the ones and Zion

Inland Republic

What i mean when Neo hide in the another desk Smith should see him through walls or something

It was my belief that the Architect could see him in the office, he chooses not to interfere

they dont "need" it, the sequels and second renaissance elaborate on that. machines revere humanity since humanity is their creator, so they chose to create a virtual paradise for us. one thing leads to another and we got the matrix

You see it's a little problem that i need to watch anime to know this

17:19

Maybe it would be a bit better if it was in the movies

The Analyst in the Matrix Resurrections is different, he clearly interfered.

shrug

Oh well I don't like Matrix Ressurrections but Nostalgia Critic did

17:20

Ressurections is the Force Awakens of the Matrix

bad read tbh

17:21

its like the anti force awakens if anything lol

Neo and Trinity now create more energy together like why

17:21

Trinity's death in Revolutions was pointless

Inland Republic

You see it's a little problem that i need to watch anime to know this

We've discussed this a little bit in live streams. If the franchise suffered because so many nuggets are hidden gems in other mediums. Maybe. But on a personal level I view it as a reward to the fans who put in the work to experience all of the Matrix Universe media

are you interested in learning the details or are you just interested in presenting nitpicks as movie ruining details. its normal in a matrix movie to not get everything directly explained, or to not pick up on all the details especially on first watch

And if they hadn't hidden so much, I wouldn't have a YouTube channel of my own

Why did Analyst keep Smith alive?

the scene in the bike shop does a pretty good job explaining the situation with neo and trinity

17:23

for smith i dont think he had a choice. to resurrect neo requires resurrecting smith.

17:23

it also fits with smith representing choicelessness

Inland Republic

Why did Analyst keep Smith alive?

That's actually a pretty good question and I think the problem here is that the MATRIX Resurrections introduces or added a psychological element in this film, where the original trilogy focuses more on philosophy and theology (edited)

Also why did they keep Merovingian (I may misspell)

maybe they felt it would be a big omission to just not mention the exiles, i would agree that their inclusion was disappointing

So the Smith presence was to keep Neo trapped mentally stuck in a loop at work... I agree with Zen... Merv proves not everything got purged from the old system

How did they fix Neo and Trinity?

they definitely specifically positioned Smith as Neo's boss to keep them butting heads, etc. although that doesn't necessarily address the "why resurrect smith" question, which is pretty valid considering he was such a threat that peace was able to be brokered. thats why i think smiths consciousness is probably tied into neo's, just as smith alludes to in reloaded. neo kills smith, part of neo copies to smith. smith kills neo, part of smith copies to neo. thats my take at least

Why did the Matrix loose green color? (edited)

so the movie could have more of a colour palette

(half kidding)

zenconnection

they definitely specifically positioned Smith as Neo's boss to keep them butting heads, etc. although that doesn't necessarily address the "why resurrect smith" question, which is pretty valid considering he was such a threat that peace was able to be brokered. thats why i think smiths consciousness is probably tied into neo's, just as smith alludes to in reloaded. neo kills smith, part of neo copies to smith. smith kills neo, part of smith copies to neo. thats my take at least

Yeah the risk factor is the part that didn't make sense to me... but I think at a deeper level it's kind of this Boomer vs Zoomed subtext. The new younger Analysts is willing to take risks that the Architect would have avoided because of his rigid dedication to the statistics and math. All the Architect cared about was stability through precision vs the Analysts who purely focused on productivity despite consequences of his methods

New Matrix, new code

17:33

No more green

Inland Republic

How did they fix Neo and Trinity?

lots of time, money, and effort, with mega-advanced super-tech. aka not really specified in terms of mechanics. i do find it interesting that the word Resurrections in the title card is composed of golden code going up. uploading their consciousnesses from the collective consciousness, as represented by the golden code in revolutions, perhaps? purely speculation though

Inland Republic

Why did the Matrix loose green color? (edited)

New Matrix, New Cinematographer... John Toll shot Cloud Atlas & Jupiter Ascending. Lana Wachowski fell in love with natural light. Hence New Matrix, New color scheme.

1

Neomatrixology

Yeah the risk factor is the part that didn't make sense to me... but I think at a deeper level it's kind of this Boomer vs Zoomed subtext. The new younger Analysts is willing to take risks that the Architect would have avoided because of his rigid dedication to the statistics and math. All the Architect cared about was stability through precision vs the Analysts who purely focused on productivity despite consequences of his methods

Absolutely the Analyst is far more reckless and cocky than the Architect, you make a good point there. I still think it's too much of a risk for even him to have made though unless it was necessary. Then again the Analyst was able to control Smith with the Deja Vu power before Neo got free, so maybe he felt the risk wasn't that great ?

17:35

Smith getting free alongside Neo getting free does support the notion that their consciousnesses are inextricably linked though as well

trainingprograms

1

zenconnection

Absolutely the Analyst is far more reckless and cocky than the Architect, you make a good point there. I still think it's too much of a risk for even him to have made though unless it was necessary. Then again the Analyst was able to control Smith with the Deja Vu power before Neo got free, so maybe he felt the risk wasn't that great ?

I'm going to lean more towards the 1st half of your statement. The Analyst was far more capable of cocky over sights... like I said earlier in this thread I'll take 600 years with a soft reset every 100 years over a mere 60 year run if given the choice

I suppose he also felt they had more fail safes this time around as well. They can deja vu, they can even reset to the old system if needed (as long as they still have neo and/or trin for the anomaly's code), and yeah he doesnt actually say theres 100% compliance, clearly there are still some minds being freed, so he probably expects to need to reset every once in a while still. just far less frequently than the old system

17:44

real world machines probably put in place some defenses against a potential viral attack too in response to what happened

Neomatrixology

New Matrix, New Cinematographer... John Toll shot Cloud Atlas & Jupiter Ascending. Lana Wachowski fell in love with natural light. Hence New Matrix, New color scheme.

Are Trinity's husband and kids real?

the husband is for sure a bot, presumably the kids are too (i didnt notice if they got swarm'd but probably?)

17:46

however, programs are shown to be "real" too, so... it is an interesting question even knowing they are bots

Why did they make Trinity the one too

its sort of implied that bots have no or less sentience but what does that really mean? maybe their programming is just that much harder to overcome

17:48

trinity isn't "the one", she is what made neo the "anomaly of anomalies", which is why she is just as important as neo

Okay why can't Neo fly at first but Trinity can

this new matrix was build specifically around harnessing their powers

17:49

neo was more harshly kept down by the constant gaslighting and bluepills, etc. trinitys prison was more about societal expectations so she was able to overcome it more easily

Why did machines start the war with each other if Deus Ex machine can shut down anything he needs

17:49

How did machines divide

remove wifi chip

Shouldn't they be centralised?

we really dont know much about how the machine world is structured tbh

i think it was explained in MMO or something

Inland Republic

Why did machines start the war with each other if Deus Ex machine can shut down anything he needs

In the Matrix online the General that lead the attack on Zion defected from the machine city. Bugs explained that the truce Neo & the Architect made redefined the "sides" of the war. Not all machines agreed with the truce. Essentially, the AI have individual sentience and therefore the hive is machine communication, not total machine control. As far as the machine city structure, bugs mentioned there being more than one machine city. I imagine they broadcast to one global matrix the same way we all use the same internet protocols now

1

Of course there will be a few cities. It's not a problem. I assumed they work as a hivemind of sorts

even as far back as the first movie they show machines/programs acting independently (when smith takes off his earpiece and confesses his hatred for his lot in life to morpheus, then of course in many instances in the sequels)

agent

1

18:01

also, the matrix as a metaphor for the internet is probably part of why the green filter isnt used anymore. in the 90s, green on black was a universally understood visual shorthand for digital space. that isn't really the case anymore. so now they use oversaturation etc to make the shots inside the matrix look "fake" / "digital"

How can programs leave the Matrix

mobil ave is the main way. smith also takes over a redpill to get out in reloaded, and in resurrections they show that programs can be uploaded to their ships now to don exo suits

I'd say trainman in the old system. In Resurrections Need to take the red pill inside the Matrix & have hardware waiting for you outside the Matrix. Morpheus was uploaded to the mnemosyne , Sati to Kujaku etc

1

id say mobil ave probably still exists for merv and the exiles since theyre still kicking but yeah it is definitely more associated with the old matrix when merv had great influence

Neomatrixology

I'd say trainman in the old system. In Resurrections Need to take the red pill inside the Matrix & have hardware waiting for you outside the Matrix. Morpheus was uploaded to the mnemosyne , Sati to Kujaku etc

Why did most resistance fighters wear sunglasses and black

to be rad

actually do sunglasses themselves mean something??

zenconnection

id say mobil ave probably still exists for merv and the exiles since theyre still kicking but yeah it is definitely more associated with the old matrix when merv had great influence

So I've got a theory about this... since Hel Club is underground & that's where everyone is in Revolutions when the trainman is there just a few hours before Zion was supposed to be destroyed. I believe the Trainman built the club as a construct inside the Matrix that protects them from resets. Just a theory, but he knew what time the attack would start so it checks out (edited)

interesting idea

Makes more sense than having to get everyone on a train to then have to provide real world hardware for every exile

Inland Republic

actually do sunglasses themselves mean something??

i actually did come across a theory recently that mentioned the sunglasses might have a softening effect on the matrix that allows redpills to tolerate it more easily. not sure how much i subscribe to the idea but they explained it better than i am

Be at the club in no later than.... 72 hrs

Neomatrixology

Makes more sense than having to get everyone on a train to then have to provide real world hardware for every exile

I figured they were just hunkering down in the station itself. Hence Merv looking like the Trainman now, they're just in hobospace

18:11

But yeah the Club also being a refuge makes sense too

zenconnection

i actually did come across a theory recently that mentioned the sunglasses might have a softening effect on the matrix that allows redpills to tolerate it more easily. not sure how much i subscribe to the idea but they explained it better than i am

Maybe for Resurrections with Smorpheus but IDK about the original trilogy. I mean sun glasses had buffs in the Matrix online anyway lol

yeah maybe its just for the analyst's matrix since his is more focused on modifying perceptions of individuals

1

Neomatrixology

Maybe for Resurrections with Smorpheus but IDK about the original trilogy. I mean sun glasses had buffs in the Matrix online anyway lol

Is the Matrix a trans allegory ?

the Matrix is many allegories stacked on top of one another, including a trans allegory

Inland Republic

Is the Matrix a trans allegory ?

https://youtu.be/ihAgKZnyqqM

THE MATRIX | Switch F!nally Explained | Lilly Wachowski Reveals Tra...

I don't like that the Matrix is about the trans. It's about man vs system, reality and man vs machine

you shouldnt think of it as being "only" about being trans, thats just one intended reading of the broader theme of rejecting what society tells you must be true

breathtaking

3

18:21

it doesnt negate the myriad of other readings and meanings imbued in the story

there’s plenty of queer subtext in science fiction in general, and the Wachowski sisters are trans, so it makes a lot of sense

‍♀️

Deleted User

there’s plenty of queer subtext in science fiction in general, and the Wachowski sisters are trans, so it makes a lot of sense

‍♀️

was it in Blade Runner?

18:25

When did they became trans?

to be clear: neo, the character, in canon, is not trans. his journey is allegorical of the trans journey, among many other things

i can’t remember, but they like to experiment with those stuff and leave them implicitly since “everything is possible” in sci-fi terms, especially towards identity and expression themes

Inland Republic

When did they became trans?

the Wachowskis?

transhumanism is a core part of cyberpunk stories, and its not that hard to draw a line between transhumanism and trans people

i thought Switch was at least non-binary or genderfluid

Deleted User

the Wachowskis?

Yes

they’ve always been trans

18:28

they just came out as trans after the movies

i think lana went public with it around the time of cloud atlas being made, and lily was more recent. after sense8 iirc

18:28

but yeah obviously these are lifelong journeys of theirs to understand themselves

exactly

Now I get why Neo tried to kill himself in Ressurecions

classy

because he was done with the blue pills

18:30

matrixbluepill

Matrix fans falling for troll bait, name a more classic combo?

18:30

Joe Biden and pedophelia

some people are legitimately ignorant you know, id rather approach interactions from a place of good faith. and i had good conversation here sooo idk what the problem is

How did Trinity understand she not Tiffany

18:34

Why did they risk saving her at all. It was egoistical

seeing Trinity in the "game" and how it looked just like how she sees herself, is what tipped her over the edge it seems

18:37

Neo's motivations can definitely be described as largely selfish, that's not wrong. he can't bear the thought of losing her again. freeing Trinity does have the knock-on effect of destabilizing the new matrix though, which is good for freedom in general (edited)

Will they free people finally?

what do you mean by that?

I mean how will people accept this matrix and why? Barny I mean Analyst said that people would not want to leave the matrix

i mean thats kind of the point of the conversation in the last scene right? will a large enough contingent of people rise above the societal programming, or will they choose comfort and slavery?

18:44

its a challenge to studios, to the audience, and to humanity in general

18:44

are we up to the task or not ?

Yes but prophesy of the One. The One must destroy the Matrix.

thats a simplistic viewpoint that is shattered already in reloaded, much less by matrix 4

That makes monomyth pointless

Inland Republic

Yes but prophesy of the One. The One must destroy the Matrix.

No. The prophecy was a lie. Neo was led by hope to eventually restart the matrix.

1

18:51

At least the former Ones. Our One, Neo, went rogue.

But that makes Neo's sacrifice pointless kinda

Is it fine to not like Matrix 4?

Inland Republic

Is it fine to not like Matrix 4?

Of course.

19:53

I don’t really like it all that much, especially in comparison to the others.

19:54

So, Neo’s sacrifice wasn’t pointless. Neither was Trinity’s death. They had a meaning at the time, and now, they are alive and in a new Matrix.

How can operators now be projected in the Matrix?

They were wearing some kind of rig that lets them, guessing its the same way there are online games where you can project an avatar through VR.

Can programs and blue pills see them in the Matrix?

20:17

I mean really why not just get in the Matrix safely like that

It doesn't seem like from the way the shots are set up it seems they are only able to speak to full who are jacked into that operators ship. It also seems implied from that that they can't interact with the matrix, just project and speak to crew members. And that he never interacted with anything or anyone else. (edited)

So will we get the Matrix 5?

In another 20 years maybe

Why couldn't they find Neo for 60 years? Did they read information in the Matrix that there is a game with this name (edited)

Because his RSI keep changing.

21:01

So more difficult to track.

Were people dissapointed with the Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions at the time? I loved them as a kid. Oh yes i watched them around 13-14.

I think people were a lot more disappointed with revolutions than reloaded, but both were relatively divisive

22:32

I didn't care for revolutions too much myself way back when, but each time I rewatch it I enjoyed it more and more

22:33

Reloaded was always great though, just different than the original

Why was Neo not guarded in Resurrections? Did Analyst know he would come back?

What is canon line in the Enter the matrix? Naobi or Ghost?

Inland Republic

What is canon line in the Enter the matrix? Naobi or Ghost?

Technically both diverge from main canon at least a little bit. The scene where they inform the other captains about the drillers plays out differently than it does in Reloaded.

Neomatrixology

https://youtu.be/ihAgKZnyqqM

The problem with this that if it was the first idea it would be in the first draft

Inland Republic

The problem with this that if it was the first idea it would be in the first draft

The problem with this rebuttal: who was the original source of leaking the so called "first draft"? There is no evidence that the original draft was ever released to the public. The video I shared with you has audio from Lilly Wachowski who made the movie. I base my analysis and answers off of credible sources. If the writer/director isn't a good enough source for you, I doubt I'll be much assistance

Neomatrixology

The problem with this rebuttal: who was the original source of leaking the so called "first draft"? There is no evidence that the original draft was ever released to the public. The video I shared with you has audio from Lilly Wachowski who made the movie. I base my analysis and answers off of credible sources. If the writer/director isn't a good enough source for you, I doubt I'll be much assistance

Why did not Lana tell that earlier?

Both Lana & Lilly transitioning in the real world wasn't a big enough tell?

Neomatrixology

Both Lana & Lilly transitioning in the real world wasn't a big enough tell?

Okay. Well i got a bit more questions for the Matrix. Is there canonical explanation why did Smith reborn as a virus?

17:38

He is an important mcguffin character

His took on some of Neo’s code which evolved him in vague ways. Used his Agent ability to possess others to copy himself over instead of move from host to host. Plus, the irony of him classifying Humans and a virus…

Why can't machines just restart matrix and delete him without Neo

Why do resistance fighters kill lots of blue pilled law enforcers?

20:29

Can't they somehow spare their lives?

"They can move in and out of any software still hardwired to their system. That means that anyone we haven't unplugged is potentially an agent."

Why did not agents take over Kid?

20:35

Why don't agents do something like with detective more often?

I think they avoid taking over people in public spaces as this would create more problems than it solved (erasing memories, potentially awakening bluepill witnesses etc.) Also it might be harder for them to take over a moving target. I think every time an Agent has appeared they've taken over someone standing or sitting still

Why didn't agent spawn in Neo when he was called by Morpheus?

They act when they really see something abnormal happening. When Morpheus called Neo, the agents wanted to use Neo to locate Morpheus.

21:38

And I do agree with FrozenFire, we always see this happening trough a person standing still, and that is in the belief that really show it's a bluepill.

Is Path of Neo canon

Inland Republic

Can't they somehow spare their lives?

They're collateral damage to the resistance.

Why don't machines send awaken humans to processing ? I mean yes maybe they are ok with red pills leaving

22:07

Did they also know that the kid is guided by Neo?

A lot of these questions are interpretable. What are your thoughts on why they didn’t possess Kid?

I mean machines make food of dead humans

22:08

why not do the same with natural redpills

Well, they need Redpills to populate Zion so Neo will connect with them and humanity. That coerces him to choose the door to reload the Matrix.

Why do people say that The Matrix 1 was self-contained and sequels are not needed

It had a satisfactory ending that tied up most narrative threads. While becoming The One and unlocking the in matrix super powers is really step one of destroying the matrix in the grand scheme of the world, as a story it is a good stopping point The threat of Neo now makes it seem inevitable the humans will win, at least inside the matrix, as Agents were the Big Bad of the scenario, and they have an equal/better opponent now.

But to be honest, to me if Matrix 1 was self-contained, the story would be generic but also Neo would just be as Smith, with a purpose in mind instead of trying to understand, really understand, the world around him after this partial truth.

Is there canon explanation how do bluepill humans reproduce?

They do not, really. Human are born in pods, artificially. (edited)

15:36

And yup, that's some level.

So parents in the matrix are not real parents?

Yup totally, but that like they could really see if their child is biological or not. After all in the simulation, they do believe it is.

its not explicitly addressed, but imo it makes sense that they would extract the sperm and eggs from the father/mother so the child's RSI makes sense with regard to parentage

zenconnection

its not explicitly addressed, but imo it makes sense that they would extract the sperm and eggs from the father/mother so the child's RSI makes sense with regard to parentage

Pretty sure this was Persephones job before she went exile. Not necessarily the extraction machine but in charge of the reproduction department or some such match maker duties

I was just going to say, Persephone and other Machines like her were involved.

That would be a neat part to explore...

If kids in the Matrix didn't resemble their parents, it would probably just be another clue to the bluepills that the lives they were living weren't real.

Hey guise

Yo ker just to follow up

3:41

So the matrix is one big server

3:41

Every one is human except for the exiles

3:42

I’m in the matrix right

3:42

My mom is my actual mom

3:42

Cuz my mom is human

3:42

So I’ve already formed a connection with her

3:42

She’s real in the matrix and a real human in the real world

3:42

And I’ve just figured out that I’m in a simulation

3:42

Why would I leave my mom?

3:43

In the matrix the only thing that is real are the humans

3:44

But everyone who leaves the matrix treat them like programs I don’t get it

@cooldude123 have you seen all of the matrix films?

Yes

3:45

Apart from m4

Well what about the comics, video games, and animatrix?

3:46

Those honestly give more info than any of of the films ime

No

Start looking into there and then into my and you'll get the answers you are looking for

3:46

Also look into the original matrix script

Bro

3:46

Are u kidding me

The original script actually had morpheus trying to find the one before neo, and this "one" was not the one and wanted to go back into the matrix to rescue a loved one that was still a blue pill

3:48

There is also comics that explain what happened when red pills leave behind blue pills

No no no I’m not on about any of that

And a comic that explains what happened to someone that took the blue pill

3:48

Its all Canon

3:48

The matrix story isn't just 3 mainline films and a follow up 4th

Ok just answer yes or no to these questions

Alright can do

The ppl who died in the car crashes are real people and died?

undetermined

Depending on which matrix you are referring to the answer could be yes

3:50

Actually I will outright say it

3:50

Yes, some of them were redpills and did die

3:50

Not all

Ok so my problem with that is that neo and Morpheus must’ve KNEW that and there was no scene where they try to save them

What's the question?

3:52

Or rather what is the complaint?

3:52

@cooldude123 are you asking if neo was going to save the blue pills?

Yeah

No that was never the plan nor the idea

What was the idea

To sustain the matrix and allow for peace between man and machine.

3:54

Stock being lost were casuality of war

3:54

And humans are just that: stocks

3:54

Stocks and crops

Ok

3:56

So Neo’s idea was never to free every human in the matrix, it was just to allow for peace for the humans already freed

And for those not freed to be allowed the choice of freedom.

Righhht

3:56

And the humans who chose the stay are then property of the machines

3:57

To’

Yes and no. They are seen ars properties to the machines but with the end of the war they were made to be seen as more equal.

3:58

However that did not last forever

3:58

War began again

Damn

3:58

Is that in m4?

That part takes place in the mmo as well as m4

Is m4 good?

Thsts for you to decide.

Saw the trailer n it looks nothing like I’ve watched

4:00

But hey ho

4:00

Anyways thanks for ur explanation

I'm always open to discussion or explanation

4:01

Feel free to dm me about anything

4:05

Anyone else wanna talk?

@Sugaree hiya

cookiemxo

1

David T. Gregory

@Neomatrixology @martinfeld sry for the late reply. as i mentioned in another channel the pursuits of the machines seem kinda weird to me. using neo, trinity (and smith to an extent) as the ultimate power source (or at least a catalysator) feels like trying to build a nuclear reactor out of plywood. it may function for a brief moment but...shits about to go massively wrong eventually, in this case due to their strong personalities and convictions. same thing with the architects matrix. sure, it worked for six iterations, yet in the sixth one there were so many massive deviations (the rise of smith, neo choosing to save trinity over saving humanity as a whole) that it ultimately led to the truce. id expect a bit more foresight from machines who are able to produce a simulated world thats 99.99999...% indistinguishable from the real world

No worries at all, and sorry for my own tardy reply! Yes, I agree with you that the machines should have better foresight, although I suppose that even when the machines think that they get humans and where things are going (especially the Analyst), they actually don't. Despite their evolution and advancement, they still pursue a world based on logic and can be surprised by the unpredictability of humans. Like in Foundation (if you've seen it), you can easily predict the actions of mass populations, but it's harder with individuals and their precise motives.

cooldude123

But hey ho

The trailer is very misleading. I didnt want to watch it after seeing the trailer but I did and it was very different than I imagined. I would recommend to go watch it and decide for yourself.

12:35

And I wouldn't say that the Kid just killed himself without any thought about his mother etc. He was probably depressed since a long time, maybe even had a lot of trouble in school and was having questions like Neo and didn't feel as if there was much to loose. And then he was in a very desperate situation when he took this step. (edited)

Deleted User

@Sugaree hiya

I've thoroughly enjoyed your posts here with Cooldude 123. It's so refreshing to see disagreement that doesn't lead to freak-outs and meltdowns.

1

@Sugaree I've had my fair share of those with other people. I prefer calm and collective approach

@kerflap I can sure relate to that. Verbal PvP was my preferred fighting style, until I started to realize how many of the players were in the same age bracket as my children. That elicited a very different style of play for me. But calm and especially collective always prevails.

@Sugaree exactly. My son isn't old enough for tech yet lol

yo another clarity i need

0:16

With the kid in the animatrix, he jumpes off the school building then wakes up in the real world. What made him leave cuz i thought once you die in the matrix you die irl (edited)

self substantiation

This^^

0:19

He was the first case of self substantiation being a success in the timeline of the films as well.

0:19

This is why when the kid runs up to neo and neo tells him "you saved yourself kid". Neo made the call to the kid to try and help him but they failed to get him out. He got himself out.

Deleted User

This is why when the kid runs up to neo and neo tells him "you saved yourself kid". Neo made the call to the kid to try and help him but they failed to get him out. He got himself out.

damn, some kid. ty

IMHO, The Animatrix short did The Kid more justice than Reloaded and Revolutions did as far as characters go.

@Metalogic I agree the animatrix really did him the most justice, however his abilities in a mech with no real training in the third movie really showed how potent he was as a red pill and soldier. That was the moment he began to truly believe.

Ehh, all he really did was run ammo and shot at an industrial sized chain while saying something about beliving in Neo.

The kid was awesome in the animatrix! I also love how Neo goes through a similar mental process in resurrections, (M4 spoiler in case someone hasn't seen it yet) trying to self-substantiate by walking off a building (edited)

@ysis that scene really made me wonder how powerful neo could have potentially become if during the jump test he just tried to jump off the roof instead to see what he could do.

10:02

Like im just picturing the entire matrix trilogy being burned by that one event. Neo learns to fly instantly. No need for an epic shootout with a helicopter to get morpheus he would just fly right in and grab him. And the Smith virus? Pfft, he'd just avoid the entire confrontation where he killed Smith and let him just remain a normal agent problem solved. At that point we wouldn't even need a second or third film. Lol (edited)

no one makes their first jump.

10:28

they forgot to load Hyper-Jump

@rajkosto spoiler: well technically trinity did in M4 seeing as she had not even fully awoken her memories by the time she took her first jump at the end of the film.

https://www.pixeltrope.net/MxO/EPN-AB-Shepherd.zip

Deleted User

@rajkosto spoiler: well technically trinity did in M4 seeing as she had not even fully awoken her memories by the time she took her first jump at the end of the film.

Trinity at the end of M4 has a very similar experience as Neo at the end of M1, where he "dies" and then comes back to life with super powers (stopping bullets in his case and also flying). Trinity also "dies" and then comes back and she can fly!

ysis

Trinity at the end of M4 has a very similar experience as Neo at the end of M1, where he "dies" and then comes back to life with super powers (stopping bullets in his case and also flying). Trinity also "dies" and then comes back and she can fly!

Yes but neo actually died and had his heart stop and was woken up by trinity kissing him. Trinity never died in the simulation she awoke in. I guess you could argue she died in the crash in m3 and was resurrected by the machines but she also died and was revived by neo in m2 and never started flying.

she dies on the rooftop at the end of M4, right? Then when she gets back up, she can fly. And yes exactly, I think Trinity acquiring "the one"-powers is just a M4 thing. Maybe this iteration of the matrix has two "the ones", which are neo and trinity together. (Just a theory)

ysis

she dies on the rooftop at the end of M4, right? Then when she gets back up, she can fly. And yes exactly, I think Trinity acquiring "the one"-powers is just a M4 thing. Maybe this iteration of the matrix has two "the ones", which are neo and trinity together. (Just a theory)

What? She dies on the rooftop in M4?

For just a short while, it looks like it!

I've seen the movie three times and I don't recall that being implied ?

zenconnection

I've seen the movie three times and I don't recall that being implied ?

I also didnt saw that

Trinity didn't die in M4.

I'm referring to the point around 2h09 where they say "she's gonna die if we don't extract" and she is lying on the ground in the matrix seemingly unconscious. then, even though they don't extract, she wakes up on her own and seems to be just fine and that's when she remembers everything, and shortly after she and Neo jump, and she can fly. I took it as a symbol of her dying and then coming back to life with renewed understanding/awareness + one-like powers. Imo of course!

I rechecked that scene and no, she didn't die.

Closest she comes is when her consciousness is transferred to Bugs' physical body for a second so they can unplug Trinity from her pod. That was probably pretty traumatic.

That was pretty wild

I'll have to rewatch that scene cuz I'm not sure how they knew how to do that

I seem to remember Sati expositing about the need and method for that operation. I liked the real-time fiber-by fiber splicing of the cord by the apparatus.

We cannot rule it out haha, maybe she does for a second!

while playing The Path Of Neo, I saw this interesting text

0:20

“The great path has no gates, Thousands of roads enter it. When one passes through this gateless gate, He walks freely between heaven and earth.” (edited)

Okay, so Zero One is the first Machine City. I wonder if the other Machine Cities have similar names. I think 2 is One Zero?

There was a One Zero and a Zero One construct in mixo

16:14

Maybe if they had third place it'd be One One, but then they're out of luck. Only two bit names allowed :D (edited)

Hold on

16:16

I dunno what 4 would be in binary

Need 3 bits for 4: 100

16:18

Two the thid power, plus zero, plus zero (edited)

16:19

lel, I had to fix that I just work up (edited)

Ahh lol

16:20

I want to say maybe they expanded upon binary, but given how Smith talks about the binary nature of the universe, probably not

It's been awhile since I was in the Zero One or One Zero construct. I usually hang out in Suku or whatever it's called

17:46

The Japanese one with the snow

Yuki?

Yea, that's it

Honestly can't recall if Yuki or Sakura is the snowy one but I'm pretty sure it's Yuki

Yuki is snow, Sakura is spring

17:52

as the word Sakura means "cherry blossom"

Sakura also makes really good cray pas

17:54

Image attachment

How cold do you think it is in The Desert of The Real? I mean, they're all wearing thin weaved hemp clothes, some are wearing undershirts.

0:43

Can't be colder than like 40F or 35F

Freezing. The scene where Neo first sees a Sentinel was supposed to feature the cockpit’s windshield iceing over, seeing everyone’s breath and everyone starting to huddle together.

Ahh okay

It’s one of those things you gotta suspend your disbelief with. The practicality of filming all that outweighed the narrative consistency. Like pretty much any shot of “The Real” should be pitch black and navigation near impossible

Gami

It’s one of those things you gotta suspend your disbelief with. The practicality of filming all that outweighed the narrative consistency. Like pretty much any shot of “The Real” should be pitch black and navigation near impossible

I mean, I'm usually layered up pretty good if it's freezing, but they're all in thin woven hemp clothing, and maybe an undershirt at the most lol

Deep down beneath the earths surface, where its still warm....

Okay, but in Final Flight of the Osiris they state that Zion is only 2km down from the surface. That's nowhere near the earth's core.

15:07

Oh sorry, four kilometres

15:07

But still

you only have to go a few feet to get where its no longer freezing. My basement is around 57 degrees year round because its below where it freezes

I always heard the deeper you go, the colder it gets

15:10

Which is why I wish I had a subterranean house

what? no

15:12

it gets hotter....you can google around, but its like 1degree for every 75feet underground (stretching my brain from a cave special). Were you are geographically matters some, but as you go deeper itll matter less

Ahh okay

15:13

Okay, hold on here

its hot underground, Tank wouldnt lead you wrong

So 4km is basically 2.5 miles and there is 5280 feet in a mile. So that's 13,200 feet below the surface

is that real math, or estimation?

Divide that by 75

2km = 93 degress I did that math

Dammit

15:15

I always suck at math

15:15

Which is why I was better at history and art

Listen to Tank

Ahh, but Tank said near the Earth's core, which he was incorrect about! (edited)

yeah, the earths core, youd be vaporized

15:16

but that was just Tank being, you know, Tank

So how deep would I have to go to get 65 degrees? Because that's where I'm comfortable

15:17

Fuck 93 degrees, it doesn't matter if it's dry heat or not. Just...no

depending on where you are.....because once you get below permafrost, its somewhere in the 50s (as in my basement)

Ahh okay

I saw a IMAX cave diving thing years ago in Boston, and went on a little research binge.....but I forget a lot because yeah

I realized something the other day. It was never really stated that the Machine City that Neo the Trinity flew to was Zero One. We just all assumed it was because of The Second Renaissance.

Yeah! I agree

15:19

Could have been.....whatever

The only real locational clue came in MxO when The General fired those missiles from Stalingrad, which is in Russia.

me being the contrarian here, didnt actuall think it was, but theres no proof either way....so I just stay out of it

Yep

Well, you and I part ways on that, because MxO being canon is just dicey enough that I dont buy it

15:21

but again, no proof, And I try not to do mental gymnastics to make MY theory fit into the observable lore

True

So I may be stupid, but I never understood how The Cycle was resolved in MxO or in M4. From my understanding of The Architect's speech, every time a rule is broken (or bent) inside The Matrix, it creates an error in the system, it makes it just a bit more unstable. I'm sure Exiles existing inside a Matrix that they're not native to is also a slight destabilizing force within The Matrix as well. Although I could be wrong about that. But programs hacking programs doesn't sound good if we're trying to keep The Matrix stable. So every now and then, The Matrix has to be reset and The Anomaly, with all these errors downloaded into his programming is the one that makes the ultimate choice to counteract all the errors inside The System and reinsert the Prime Program. The errors are decompiled and counted and most likely in the next version of The Matrix there's a patch update along with the reinsertion of the Prime Program. Zion also has to be culled because if Zion gets too big, then they're a legitimate threat to The Machines, so Zion has to be kept in check as well. In MxO or M4, this is never addressed, they don't even acknowledge the complex process that goes into keeping The Matrix functioning with The One. I guess they kind of do in MxO by showing how unstable The Matrix has become post-Cycle Matrix, but M4 seem to have just forgotten all about it.

How i understood the architects explanation was that it was the addition of choice that began the anomaly. That choices people in the matrix make will add up and begin causing the problems in the code and how the matrix behaves. Not necessarily when rules of the matrix are broken, but the rounding and buildup of choices allow the rule breaking to happen more easily and often.

2:05

Which makes it fitting that neo embodied "Because I choose to" (edited)

2:06

That the anomaly was made of the result of human choice being too much for the system to truly handle

Yea, but the addition of choice is still there even after the conclusion of Revolutions.

That bit I don't really know. Might be somewhere in what/how the analyst says their lines

2:10

M4 did emphasize the illusion of choice when talking about the pill. maybe it's in a similar vein that there's less/no buildup for the anomaly to rise when the choices given are controlled a certain way, the way the analyst has it set up for quiet despair

what about the 60 year time difference? many people seem to say a cycle in the previous version was about 100 years long, so since the analyst is pretty new at his job he might be just hotfixing things cause nothing truly bad has happened yet

That too could be a factor

besides, id almost say the level of negativity and despair is so high that its efficient at (at least) delaying too many choices to escape cause you cant really think about reality if your mind is even more busy than before

The Analyst's Matrix leverages the simulation's inherent instability. It's a feature, not a bug.

yet its also low enough so people still identify with the whole mess, compared to e.g. the nightmare matrix, where extreme negativity was just forced down their throats

2:13

nobody is running around screaming in your face about the latest drama. at least on some level you have to choose to consume the news and media in general. you can choose to turn of all the devices right now. but do you? thats how they get you

2:20

keep people overthinking pointless things, an artificially induced state of depression

David T. Gregory

keep people overthinking pointless things, an artificially induced state of depression

That sounds like our modern world.

theres another thing ive been wondering about

2:39

if all the events of the first 3 movies is being recreated as a video game (and with smith unknowingly quoting himself its pretty certain that all the info wasnt just drawn from neos memories) - to what extreme extent are events in the matrix archived?

2:39

seems like such a waste of power

David T. Gregory

seems like such a waste of power

I think that's what The Analyst meant when he said "cost twice as much" and "It was crazy expensive."

so the analysts vision must go way back then

2:43

i mean someone mustve been like "hey im gonna record all this, this is gonna be great"

2:44

then again the architect could also present neo with a "this is your life" movie on various screens

Yea, it's not simply resurrecting Neo and Trinity, it's about manipulating their memories so that they'll stay asleep. My question is, was this like an actual game or more of a interactive movie? Because In-Universe, showing movie clips and saying it's from a game doesn't really make sense.

no clue about the circumstances in universe, but as an image this could underline how the machines just got really good at creating distractive media

2:46

or it was just cutscenes

2:47

like path of neo showed you movie clips from the exact same battle you were about to play

They could've at least re-create the fight scenes to look like action scenes in a video game. Like use a game engine like Unreal.

2:47

It would've sold "They turned Neo's journey into a video game" a little bit better

true

2:48

but maybe that was kind of a meta thing, knowing that in real life we already had that

2:48

or it didnt mean enough to warrant any additional work

I guess so

2:49

I'm probably just nitpicking lol

i still think they shouldve launched "facezuckersuck.com" as a promo website

I'm sure that'll be a porn site before too long

with videos of people licking frosting from other peoples faces

"frosting"

yes cause zucker literally means sugar

and what does berg mean?

mountain

Sugar Mountain

2:54

Mark Sugar Mountain

yup

He should've created a candy company

2:54

Be a real life version of Willy Wonka

now hes more like willy wanker

Oh gods, The Analyst gave Mark Zuckerburg the idea for Facebook so

2:55

so that his Matrix will work

good god

i still wonder what mervs problem with wiki and the climate is

3:02

but i guess an elitist like him doesnt really enjoy knowledge being available to anyone, probably because he thinks it just creates a bunch of smartasses who have no clue how to use that knowledge

3:03

same with climate activism. thats something especially the younger generation is getting accused of. knowing nothing about the bigger picture, yet everyone wants to be an activist

3:04

(not necessarily my own opinion)

Metalogic

Oh gods, The Analyst gave Mark Zuckerburg the idea for Facebook so

And an analyst in the hands of non profit? Or ngo? What would they do?

Atum/Atom

And an analyst in the hands of non profit? Or ngo? What would they do?

Be the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation.

Metalogic

Be the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation.

Mmm we went for social work justice advocacy agency to save the neo’s and trinity’s :p

0:05

In progress

0:05

Up up and away

0:06

Alright, so this is a really weird question, but bear with me. Humans are jacked into the matrix, and there is reproduction in the human population. The human population has people being born, growing old, and dying. Do we know canonically how the reproduction of humans is happening in the real and how it connects to whatever experiences of reproduction are happening within the simulation?

If I try to think about all the ways that we could reconcile what I know, which is mainly (1.) that their is some process of reproducing humans happening, and (2.) that there are also simulations of experiences of reprodiction, then there are a few ways that I could see the questions I have here being answered. It could be that the relationship between the reproduction happening in the simulation actually correlates to the synthient assisted reproduction of both those people within their pods. That is sort of the first idea that came to mind when I was thinking about this. It is very simple in the sense that everything is one to on in simulation and the real, the reproduction, pregnancy, and birth experiences all occur simultaneously in both the real and the simulation. The second possibility I thought about was that maybe there is regular collection of genetic material and... usage of said material (trying to be clear without being too R-rated). So, the mother's pregnancy was real but the reproduction experience was only simulated to be whoever her partner is there, but the genetic material of the father could be whoever the synthients chose from the precollected materials. Then, I think outside of both of those and I feel like one possibility, that I on a gut level am skeptical of, is that humans are birthed in artificial wombs, cloned, or some other stuff like that, and all of the experiences surrounding reproduction in the simulation correspond to nothing but illusions and waste in the real.

11:38

Something about the synthients being able to make someone feel like they are pregnant and even giving birth feels off to me, even if in principle maybe that isn't a stretch. Maybe there are other alternatives I have missed and maybe thetr js skme canonical answer or an inference from canon to be made, but I definitely feel like all of those possibilities that came to mind for me had some surprisingly interesting implications about either synthient culture, morality, nuances for awakened people, etc etc.

I'd always assumed (at least in the Architect's Matrix) that it was the first one - they take the genetic material out of the reproducing couple and use that for the new baby. There doesn't ever appear to be a major genetic difference between someone's RSI and their real body (although to be fair the original idea for Switch contradicts this). More importantly though it would help sell the reality of the digital world, which seems important to the Architect (and not as important to the Analyst, so the system could have changed for his Matrix). It seems like my assumption isn't necessarily the most popular interpretation though, a lot of people seem to be of the opinion it's just "people are grown and they're just deployed as needed, no genetic continuity with regard to parentage at all"

Awesome, I think I can vibe what you are saying, but allow to suggest some weirdness that comes with that option to consider. That means synthients or some nonsentient machines are grabbing a genetic sample from one pod person, and some others are receiving that in a timely fashion close to conception time in the sim and artificially inseminating the other pod person. That is quite complicated if you think about it. Almost sounds ritualistic considering how invovled it is, like some odd and deep rooted aspect of how they relate to humans expresses itself in this social routine. It's just something that is like a hair silly but also genuinely compelling: why are the machines so invested in this weird reproduction ritual with this enslaved race that powers their world? Is it a weird respect of familial bonds due to some human sympathetic subroutines from way back? Is it perhaps a source of amusement, like we're their Tamagotchis or something? Is it just a way to kill time and socially bond with an specific co-ordinates group task? The other nuance I think is that a child doesn't need to strongly resemble their dad to pass as their kid. As long as you don't choose like accidentally make a mixed race baby for a couple that is monoracial, I feel like people often look quite different from their parents. It's not like they could verify with a DNA test, the test would be in the simulation. I think that makes "synthient chosen father + real mother" seem like the simplest and most low effort option, but that also comes with a lot of baggage and all these possibilities you could argue for pretty well IMO.

Well, for one minor point I wouldn't think they inseminate the mother, that does seem needlessly complicated and Matrix 1 shows the babies in their own pods. I would think it's more along the lines of a test tube baby using the mother's egg + father's sperm. You're right that they could potentially get away with using "generic" sperm as long as they're careful with things like race, but at that point I don't think it's too much more complicated to just use the actual father's material (no cross-referencing or categorizing of reserves needed). What I keep coming back to on this topic is the Architect's goal of maximum precision. Would be interesting to find out that the Analyst does do it more loosey-goosey since he just gaslights everyone in the simulation anyway. As for the ritualisticness of it all, the impression I always got from the Second Renaissance is that synthients do revere humanity in their own way, so I would argue that this process is an extension of that. Although you can certainly make the case that the Second Renaissance isn't a reliable source of information (they say in the short that it's the Zion Archives - whether that means the archives within Zion or the archives about Zion isn't made clear, but the vibe always seemed to me like it was from the perspective of the machines). The other possibilities you're suggesting are interesting food for thought. The culture and politics of the machine world are mostly untouched and fascinating to think about.

I agree, woud love to see that all explored more.I feel like a lot of these options all have a lot of ick implications that are interesting to think about. Some stuff that was coming to mind for me: Are the synthients artificially selecting for people who they can extract more energy from maybe? Works as a parallel for industrial farming and stuff and evokes eugenics stuff which feels fitting. Are synthients or programs actually responsible for just making people experience failed pregnances if the whole process is not occurring in the real? Would anyone be able to find their family and actually connect with them if people started waking up en masse like if the lineages aligned in the real and the sim, or would it just not be possible to trace back a lineage that was biological and cultural? Pretty intense if so, somewhat analogous to American slavery in regards to forcibly breaking up families and making it hard to trace roots etc, would be a cool thing to explore if so. Whatever way the synthients deal with human reproduction, it seems like that way would say something about the culture. We could even imagine that it is more complicated than just having one answer: maybe it is a system that gets tweaked between iterations, maybe the Analyst and the Architects' different design philosophies means they approached it differently, maybe it has been a matter of debate and disagreement among synthients, or maybe it ways happens in different ways for different reasons in the same populations.

@muse https://www.instagram.com/p/B9Ks5vgjEh3/?utm_medium=copy_link

Vesuveus

@muse https://www.instagram.com/p/B9Ks5vgjEh3/?utm_medium=copy_link

So Persephone makes the pod people horny by tickling our glands

Metalogic

So Persephone makes the pod people horny by tickling our glands

I mean, how is that new that Persephone makes people horny? I thought it was clear back in 2003.

Admittedly the EtM cutscene with Niobe was, uh... memorable to me

I'm pretty sure Persephone sticks her tongue into throat of any redpill brave enough to venture there. LOLFACEMATRIX

LOLFACEMATRIX

Metalogic

So Persephone makes the pod people horny by tickling our glands

You that that’s good you’re sleeping in?

Vesuveus

@muse https://www.instagram.com/p/B9Ks5vgjEh3/?utm_medium=copy_link

Eyy nice! That is so cool

muse

Alright, so this is a really weird question, but bear with me. Humans are jacked into the matrix, and there is reproduction in the human population. The human population has people being born, growing old, and dying. Do we know canonically how the reproduction of humans is happening in the real and how it connects to whatever experiences of reproduction are happening within the simulation?

oh I can answer that so humans still can make babies even within their pods, the machines take the materials from the parents and into the fetus fields where the zygote grows inside the bulb pod and through a complex system of wiring and signals the "mother" feels said pregnancy in the matrix and labor is basically what trinity and bugs did cause the baby is transferred from the bulb pod to its permitted pod, sadly the parents and children are not close together within the power plant. in some cases its "accidently" pregnancies' happen when a baby from extra matter from men and women are left over and the baby needs host parents. the docbot is open for Dms if you're still curious or wanna talk about powerplants more

Metalogic

So Persephone makes the pod people horny by tickling our glands

shes just one of the few programs, docbots also manage that too but thats in a real world sense just cause a human is asleep doesn't mean that part doesn't still work it happens more to men if you catch my drift XD

Calaeus (radiofreezion.net)

I mean, how is that new that Persephone makes people horny? I thought it was clear back in 2003.

laughs in gay

ADHD's acting up so I can't read through this entire philosophical conversation, but I'd research reincarnation and connect it to the Symbology of Gnosticism. Then watch the movies to an almost obsessive-compulse degree. lol.

Nice lol

11:11

But yeah i also believe in reincarnation but not right away reincarnation, but in the matrix terms its basically machines using the same models and codes over and over again at random

I'd use the word "Matrixist" rather than "in the matrix terms." Matrixism was an old underground movement from the late 90s to early 2000s.

12:59

I think you're referring to something like the exponential function in abstract mathematics by the way.

12:59

I didn't get my B.A. in maths so... kind of stuck there.

Deleted User

I'd use the word "Matrixist" rather than "in the matrix terms." Matrixism was an old underground movement from the late 90s to early 2000s.

I'm more focused on the real world lore and the programmed world but I do enjoy these terms

More power to you.

In Resurrections The Analyst talks about what happens when Neo & Trinity get too close. Every sim where you two bonded… Let’s just say bad things happened. How many sims did The Analyst run? Or is Neo & Trinity the acclimation of all anomalies that has existed in The Matrix?

He said it took years to find the solution & it was expensive

17:41

I like to think of Neo as this systemic anomaly representing free will as an over correction to humanity's suppressed choice (collective made) or as Kevin Flynn would say in Tron Legacy 'The conditions were right and they manifested'... whereas I see Trinity as a product or protype of the BIP (Oracle made)... the combination of the two create the "bond" the Analyst was experimenting with until he found his way to exploit and maximize the energy output

How i see it is, They both have the anomaly code property after the both died, neo's code was activated when he died and came back in the first matrix, then trinity was given the code when neo did the bullet removal "surgery" but it must had been dormant in her til she died but since the machines brought her back the code was active so both of them have the same glitch code and it gets stronger the closer they got together making more energy. But unfortunately the power/energy it produced was to much and unstable so the Analyst kept them in a constant game of cat and mouse with each other. that kinda started breaking their illusion down and giving them flashes of their past lives til the illusion breaks, the fake lives they lead help suppress the glitch code but the Analyst decided to play games instead of giving neo and trinity realistic marriage and life

So, the anomaly code requires a reboot?

It make sense if the old Matrix required a reboot

I think the “bad things that happened” were poor energy output or mass rejection of the sim

Vesuveus

So, the anomaly code requires a reboot?

It seems like it cause neo wasn't able to use it til he died, and trinity wasn't able to use her half of the code til she was brought back

Just gonna plug my 10k word essay on that scene. https://www.reddit.com/r/matrix/comments/ri88o1/the_architect_annotated_part_1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf (edited)

r/matrix - The Architect Annotated: Part 1

19 votes and 14 comments so far on Reddit

Do you guys think Neo was the One or was it Agent Smith?

Neo, 100%

Neo was the one and "fix" Smith since he was malfunctioning from his program which then kinda backfired since neo did have the code that bends "reality" and gave smith a copy of it which lead to the smith virus. The architect didn't expect the one to be that wreak less in my opinion

I think the whole line of "A man born inside The Matrix will be able to remake it as he sees fit" is a bit of mythical telling by either The Oracle or Morpheus

oracle

2

Metalogic

I think the whole line of "A man born inside The Matrix will be able to remake it as he sees fit" is a bit of mythical telling by either The Oracle or Morpheus

I'd say he changed things as he saw fit...he's just a n00b at the whole demi-god thing

Wullfae

Do you guys think Neo was the One or was it Agent Smith?

(NEO 1 + TRINITY 1) - 1 SMITH = The ONE

do you think theres war in the matrix?

22:26

like war between nations

22:26

seems pointless sacrificing batteries like that

war between nations, war between beliefs, war between ideals

22:35

yes in every form

22:36

conflict is a fertile breeding ground for storytelling

Any thoughts on what happens to the Sentients that didn't win the war? are they ALL exiled?

Purged and deleted most likely. Maybe a few survived like the Merv but those are likely the minority.

2

Sared

conflict is a fertile breeding ground for storytelling

And also a fine tool to keep a mind occupied.

conflict, or storytelling?

Sared

conflict, or storytelling?

Embedded image

breathtaking

2

Sared

conflict is a fertile breeding ground for storytelling

but there has to be a limit, right?

20:08

something that would at least prevent a nuclear war

hardly

why

20:14

imagine something like the cold war suddenly turning hot

20:14

i highly doubt the machines would just take these kinds of losses

20:16

only thing id imagine would be the war being turned into a virtual charade by sending programs to fight each other. everyone knows a guy who went to war or even died there but nobodys ever been there by themselves

Think people are losing sight of how all encompassing the control The Matrix has over those inside it. Every outside influence with the sole exception of an individuals mind (and even that has to fight off every single context the rest of the body sends it) is at the whim and direction of the machines that run the whole thing. Machines aren’t going to allow a conflict to go hot, and if it does it’s all fabricated implanted memory telling your it did but not really.

which would explain the "crazy veteran" trope

19:57

remembering things you didnt do, things that are inconsistent with reality, cause some fake memories are implanted onto you but not truly integrated

Why was The Kid named after Karl Popper?

23:52

Karl Popper is a famous anti-marxist

1

✨✨

symbolism

✨✨

thistbh

3

Eh, to be fair, The Kid is more like An apostle to Jesus Christ more than anything Marxist related

Not sure why Popper’s anti-Marxism is relevant but for a quick rundown on Popper… Popper’s problem was the holistic approach of Marxism using economic struggle as the end all be all determining factor of historical progression. Mainly because that type of approach leads to the creation of boogeymen and lionizing individuals. He has similar problems with Hegel and Plato. Said criticism is laid out in his book “Open Society” which is about identifying why modern governments fall victim to totalitarian and authoritarian regimes. Which is probably what the Wachowskis were hinting at with the nomenclature. Popper was anti-authoritarian which fits the resistance motif of freed minds.

2:29

My personal theory is that Kid is built out of a very early conception of Neo before the sisters added the Prophecy and “One” narratives. Karl Popper being a decent enough parallel to where Neo’s early philosophy might have been laid. And Kid’s story being a early deleted scenes that was turned into the MetaCortex scene (edited)

He'd probably be closer to Jim Jones in his fanaticism.

There’s also an interesting use of the name “Michael”. It’s used twice as a dead name in Wachowski works. First being Kid’s bluepill name and second as Naomi Marks birth name in Sense 8.

Do you think Zion has Flavor-Aid?

Lol Zion probably not or Cypher would have chugged that junk

Fun fact: it wasn't Kool-Aid, it was Flavor-Aid!

Io figuring out the flavor to a strawberry though…

2:56

Jones knew better than to give Heinz any of his cash

Hahha

docbot

✨✨

symbolism

✨✨

yes but this weird symbolism

14:11

Karl Popper is a bad philosopher who was super anti communist

Popper wrote his criticisms of Marx while Stalin was running the USSR. Not exactly difficult to see why he might have a problem with the ideology. Also going to bet you’ve never read Popper if you’re getting hung up on what you assume his politics are when that’s the least interesting thing about him.

Gami

Popper wrote his criticisms of Marx while Stalin was running the USSR. Not exactly difficult to see why he might have a problem with the ideology. Also going to bet you’ve never read Popper if you’re getting hung up on what you assume his politics are when that’s the least interesting thing about him.

What's wrong with Staling ruling USSR? So yes Popper was influenced by lies about USSR

A lot. But I get the impression you’re either really young or trolling.

I read a few books from him. His view on marxism is wrong

Inland Republic

What's wrong with Staling ruling USSR? So yes Popper was influenced by lies about USSR

I mean, there was the famine that killed millions of people just to start...

Gami

A lot. But I get the impression you’re either really young or trolling.

I mean there are some things wrong

Metalogic

I mean, there was the famine that killed millions of people just to start...

It was not his fault

16:18

It was a weather problem and bad harvest

He literally forced farmers into factories, decreasing the amount of labor available to work the farm, which led to a food shortage.

Metalogic

He literally forced farmers into factories, decreasing the amount of labor available to work the farm, which led to a food shortage.

Noone was forced. It's called industrialization

Metalogic

He literally forced farmers into factories, decreasing the amount of labor available to work the farm, which led to a food shortage.

It's decreasing in every country where industrialization is implemented. It's called progress

16:44

Britain was like it too

16:45

You guys seem to be pretty blue pilled

16:45

and buy to propaganda

The fuck is this

16:50

All this

16:52

This isn't a political channel

16:52

This isn't a political server

fine

Inland Republic

Why was The Kid named after Karl Popper?

I answered this question in great detail here: https://youtu.be/nAVb7CxcI4s

I Kant featuring The Matrix Kid | Clayton Watson Interview

18:36

The short answer is stick to the philosophy and ignore the politics.

1

Gami

Not sure why Popper’s anti-Marxism is relevant but for a quick rundown on Popper… Popper’s problem was the holistic approach of Marxism using economic struggle as the end all be all determining factor of historical progression. Mainly because that type of approach leads to the creation of boogeymen and lionizing individuals. He has similar problems with Hegel and Plato. Said criticism is laid out in his book “Open Society” which is about identifying why modern governments fall victim to totalitarian and authoritarian regimes. Which is probably what the Wachowskis were hinting at with the nomenclature. Popper was anti-authoritarian which fits the resistance motif of freed minds.

I agree. Especially if you consider the content of the Kid's Blog. (edited)

How do you get actors to interviews?

Wait so machines created nation in place of Mesopotamia? Like modern day Iraq? What did happen to Iraqi people?

Batteries

20:43

Literally all of humanity is a battery at that point lol

So before the big machine war they occupied and enslaved Iraq?

Coppertops

20:44

Thought you meant the machine city

I mean origins of nation 01

The machines enslaved everyone

20:44

Who knows

20:45

Before the war?

yes

20:45

Before UN declared the war

Mesopotamia

yes

20:48

At the place where Mesopotamia was we got Iraq

20:48

in real world

Who knows

20:48

Those stories haven't been told

I think they did something bad to Iraq people

They rose into an industrial superpower before becoming hostile, it might have been a peaceful takeover

20:49

01 was the most successful business on earth

20:50

Amazon without bezos

Well it's Iraq.. Peacefull takeover... eh

20:52

They will consider machines kefirs

Is this really all you have to contribute?

just cause i found it funny: the word theyre looking for is "kafir" - infidel

18:24

"kefir" is some kind of yoghurt drink

you think neos apartment mightve been located in the westview area?

3:18

just judging by how decrepit it is

3:20

just wondering why a guy who works for a "respectable software company" has ended up in such a shithole

3:24

(the other question i have is: are the hallways of american apartment houses always open for anyone? ive seen that so many times in movies, tv shows etc that some visitor can just walk right in and knock directly at the occupants door. kinda unusual here)

Most of them have security doors that you have to be buzzed in or a security desk./lobby

ah gotcha. over here, even on big buildings, you just have large panels with every inhabitants doorbell on them

Idk why but they look like liminal spaces

so...when neo takes the red pill we see him being hooked up to all those devices by morpheus and the others. and while its made pretty clear that some of them are for tracking his position in the real world, tracking his heart rate and other bodily functions, we also see someone putting a phone receiver on another device. thus i wonder: are some of these machines essential for the process of waking up itself? or: what happens if someone takes a red pill while being completely alone, without other redpills and their machines?

19:12

asking because i once had kind of a roleplay idea about a detective whos fighting against an organized crime syndicate and after he manages to bust a large operation the syndicates bosses try to make him disappear by dosing him with a red pill. just wondering if thats plausible

from what I can gather the red pill solely seems to be a tracking device, doesn't really do anything without someone to extract the person the "reality" of the Matrix shattering around Neo in the first film, according to later material, does not actually seem to be tied to the red pill itself in anyway, but rather seems to be the natural conclusion of no longer accepting the Matrix as real, period, it is implied that even if he didn't take the red pill, Neo would eventually have had an incident like the mirror one and wake up in his pod, upon understanding that the Matrix itself was not real the importance of the red pill is thus ensuring that Zion crews can locate and recruit these people before they wake up and the machines dispose of them, the act of waking up is not directly caused by the red pill itself

19:19

even in the first movie, it's sort of implied this is the case when Smith talks to Morpheus about the first Matrix, and now "entire crops were lost" because "no one would accept the program"

19:19

The Architect talks about this in Reloaded in similarly vague terms, but The Animatrix pretty much takes this completely out of the vague and explicitly lays this out

19:20

In World Record, the runner wakes up upon having surpassed the Matrix's programmed limits on how fast a person can run, without ever taking a red pill whatsoever

then again, sure, there are cases of people waking up on their own, like the kid, but if i remember correctly those are considered to be extremely rare

19:21

question is now: why? cause it actually doesnt happen very often or because nobody notices and those who wake up are just quickly flushed out and turned into soylent green?

19:21

my point is: what exactly triggers the waking up process in cases like neos?

19:22

its not like morpheus gives him an explicit explanation until theyre both in the construct. neo basically just took a pill and is hooked up to some devices, just like in the ER - only difference is that everything around him is decrepit and theres a guy with a leather fetish who talks cryptically

19:27

personally, ive always viewed the "lost crops" thing smith talks about as people suddenly dropping dead due to that nagging feeling of irreality. or maybe committing suicide. cause it seems like that paradise matrix was very "in your face" with happiness and stuff. some uncanny valley shit, where everything looks real at first glance but something is just....wrong. like: you start gambling and always win. then you return home to your partner and they have no personality except constantly agreeing with you. you get promoted at your job, despite sucking at it. everything feeling like a complete charade

19:27

cause why would machines - at this point in time at least - have a deeper understanding of how human happiness works

about world record: id say that was just a mere accident. up until his awakening the guy never showed any inclination of being dissatisfied with the very fabric of reality itself. doubting what he sees, hears, etc. he was more concerned with busting that running record, no matter what happens and accidentally broke the fabric of reality as a byproduct. it was never about the world itself being real or fake, more about him believing that he could do even better. only after his encounter with the real world his mind opened up towards a possibility of real freedom

@David T. Gregory Okay the red pill breaks the signal to the body and RSI, neo's experience was more controlled because the crew had a set up, your idea would be like world record/ matrix resurrections if the detective was forced to take it hes RSI will see the world break down and stay conscious but he'll fall through and wake up in the real world, he'll have a higher chance of death in the real world cause the strain on his body jolting awake and then from the pain of all the plugs/ports and if that doesn't kill him the pain from being unplugged and the shock/fear of seeing reality. But if he survives the next step is surviving the outside world.

docbot

@David T. Gregory Okay the red pill breaks the signal to the body and RSI, neo's experience was more controlled because the crew had a set up, your idea would be like world record/ matrix resurrections if the detective was forced to take it hes RSI will see the world break down and stay conscious but he'll fall through and wake up in the real world, he'll have a higher chance of death in the real world cause the strain on his body jolting awake and then from the pain of all the plugs/ports and if that doesn't kill him the pain from being unplugged and the shock/fear of seeing reality. But if he survives the next step is surviving the outside world.

in terms of storytelling that wouldnt be that much of a problem. im thinking about a guy like alex murphy in robocop, who - at least somehow - managed to pull through. the progression would be - at least in this case - he survives in the real world sewers as long as possible, until hes discovered by accident by some random ship

David T. Gregory

in terms of storytelling that wouldnt be that much of a problem. im thinking about a guy like alex murphy in robocop, who - at least somehow - managed to pull through. the progression would be - at least in this case - he survives in the real world sewers as long as possible, until hes discovered by accident by some random ship

Ooooooooooo interesting I'll like to hear his story

theres not much to it, im afraid. it was just a basic idea

docbot

Ooooooooooo interesting I'll like to hear his story

but maybe, after a long waiting period where hes helped to cope with his new life in the real world, he comes back, figuring out who put him into this situation and fights that crime syndicate

21:08

there are many possibilities, like for example the crime bosses discovering the consequences of the red pill, using the exit as a way to obtain superpowers. ya know, the juxtaposition of one guy who walks the usual redpill path of higher consciousness vs the folks who just do it for the sake of ego

21:08

a purified soul vs the egotistic bastards of hell

21:09

nobody wanted to enter that realm of existence and yet here they are - strangers in a new world

1

David T. Gregory

there are many possibilities, like for example the crime bosses discovering the consequences of the red pill, using the exit as a way to obtain superpowers. ya know, the juxtaposition of one guy who walks the usual redpill path of higher consciousness vs the folks who just do it for the sake of ego

Interesting, or the crime boss makes a deal with the merovingian, not knowing the whole truth but gaining the financial benefit and extra muscle from the merovingian in exchange for sneaking exile programs around the city undercover, the detective was forced a red pill yhe crime boss thinking it was something like cyanide and making him believe the detective died when his RSI disconnected. But after the detective was rescued and reentered into the matrix he finds out the whole truth and tries to take down the crime boss

1

docbot

Interesting, or the crime boss makes a deal with the merovingian, not knowing the whole truth but gaining the financial benefit and extra muscle from the merovingian in exchange for sneaking exile programs around the city undercover, the detective was forced a red pill yhe crime boss thinking it was something like cyanide and making him believe the detective died when his RSI disconnected. But after the detective was rescued and reentered into the matrix he finds out the whole truth and tries to take down the crime boss

exactly that. didnt think about mervs involvement, thats a good point

21:23

maybe the crime boss even hires some merv goons and thus gets closer to the reality of the matrix than he ever expected

David T. Gregory

maybe the crime boss even hires some merv goons and thus gets closer to the reality of the matrix than he ever expected

Yeah, you can also take a que from TMO and the merovingian is trying to smuggle in a glitch program to hold the matrix hostage, making agents and the red pills including the detective hold a mini truce to stop them, the merovingian glitching out the crime boss just a little to get some enhanced abilities in the guise of steroids, it would be better if the crime boss doesn't know the whole truth til the detective tells/shows him knocking the crime boss and forcing the red pill into them but unfortunately the shock of the real world kills the crime boss

David T. Gregory

asking because i once had kind of a roleplay idea about a detective whos fighting against an organized crime syndicate and after he manages to bust a large operation the syndicates bosses try to make him disappear by dosing him with a red pill. just wondering if thats plausible

Pretty sure the red pill also simulated a cardiac arrest so that the @docbot thinks you're going to die & flushes you down the drain in order to be picked up by the hovercraft that pilled you. So for the sake of your fan fic, yeah a red pill could be treated like a cyanide capsule and kill someone who took it & had no ride to pick him/her up in the real world.

5:05

Having the crime boss buy or aquire the red pills from an exile or the Merv is a nice touch

hey guys

16:40

so...

16:40

i do have osme questions

16:40

about the matrix lore

Okidoki go for it

well

18:07

it's mainly about how do we get sustinence for the citizens of zion and IO

18:07

also, do the pods suck the humans nutrients until it becomes a husk, or just uses only it's heat?

Alexander Watson (Roleplayer)

it's mainly about how do we get sustinence for the citizens of zion and IO

IO has an artificial sun and started farming again so the wheat paste they ate during the zion years isn't needed as much

Alexander Watson (Roleplayer)

also, do the pods suck the humans nutrients until it becomes a husk, or just uses only it's heat?

Podborn humans are fed a cocktail of protein fron recycled humans and nutrients fluids machines provide, and their body energy/heat power are collected from the plugs/ports attached to their bodies

but, what if dark storm wasn't activated, and the second reanissance was just propaganda used for the remaining alive humans?

19:10

also, does the matrix simulated different locations depending on the place they are on?

19:10

like, brazil?

Alexander Watson (Roleplayer)

also, does the matrix simulated different locations depending on the place they are on?

Now thats a theory and in my opinion yes there are different versions and different powerplants

Alexander Watson (Roleplayer)

but, what if dark storm wasn't activated, and the second reanissance was just propaganda used for the remaining alive humans?

Dark storm was caused by humans to stop machines, propaganda wouldn't scare machines into submission like it would a human

docbot

Dark storm was caused by humans to stop machines, propaganda wouldn't scare machines into submission like it would a human

i meant, what if the machines created the second reanisance propaganda for zion archives, and they blocked out the sun to weaken the remaining humans?

0:06

or we won, but a human faction used dark storm, and then we had to reporgram the machines to trap us in the matrix?

Alexander Watson (Roleplayer)

or we won, but a human faction used dark storm, and then we had to reporgram the machines to trap us in the matrix?

Thats a theory people have but the machines did save humanity, there were other energy sorces they could had used like the earth core and straight up nuclear power but they felt some pity towards their creators who destroyed themselves

dynoSuccess

Shodan#6962 has been warned. || (Nope, we're not doing this.)

Alexander Watson (Roleplayer)

also, does the matrix simulated different locations depending on the place they are on?

Im relatively certain that was confirmed in one of the comics

Deleted User

Im relatively certain that was confirmed in one of the comics

Goliath takes place in London inside the Matrix, it isn't confirmed until Resurrections with the mnemosyne hovercraft plaque, the machine civil war, and mention of other machine cities.

20:33

I don't usually have the energy for the "machine propaganda" discussion but no, the 2nd Renaissance is not shown to humans. IF it had been, Morpheus wouldn't have said 'we don't know who struck first', because that's exactly what the 2nd Renaissance tells us, who struck first, and second etc etc. It is called the "Zion" archive, because the machines inhabited Zion during the war BEFORE they gave it to humans to facilitate the 'prophecy of the one'

2nd ren doesn’t say who struck first. It does cover human bigotry and shows the breakdown between man machine relations. But after 01 is denied entry to the UN it cuts to a bombing campaign. That’s a rather dramatic shift that goes unexplained.

The humans definitely struck first by nuking 01, right?

21:31

Or am I misremembering

Misremembering. As I said the short shows us the UN rejection and then jumps to a bombing campaign. But there’s no information provided that contextualizes why humanity is now engaged in warfare with the machines.

21:45

The bombing of 01 is the first military action we see in 2nd Ren but it’s never said to be the first shot fired or first strike.

If the machines are behind the archives (which would make sense given what we learn in Reloaded), I feel like it would have made more sense for them to be clearer about the humans being bad part

I try not to think about it. The historiography of second ren is fucked every which way you look at it. Ultimately it’s a piece made for the audience rather than the world it explains.

I wonder what Morpheus actually did with those archives when the peace was acquired

21:51

Did he burn it all in a show of defiance or did he try to ask the machines “hey guys do you have actual human archives lying around?” I feel like it would be the first one

Morpheus doesn’t really come off as rigidly anti-machine. He’s pretty chill with Seraph after all.

He sure loved his Oracle

21:53

For a while

21:53

I think MxO made me think canon Morpheus is a mad terrorist

21:54

Tough to forget all this

21:54

Now canon Morpheus is a weird looking statue it’s confusing

He’s an entrenched zealot that swapped his devotion from the prophecy to Neo. A dogmatic belief that clouded his judgment to the idea that Neo’s “peace” could be broken or some threat would emerge to threaten it. (edited)

21:57

Honestly his ending in m4 is a billion times better than MxO. Where he’s willing to just toss everything his friend achieved for a decomposing corpse.

And killed by a guy made of flies. There are better ways to go.

Neomatrixology

Goliath takes place in London inside the Matrix, it isn't confirmed until Resurrections with the mnemosyne hovercraft plaque, the machine civil war, and mention of other machine cities.

Yeah. I was referring to Goliath

Gami

He’s an entrenched zealot that swapped his devotion from the prophecy to Neo. A dogmatic belief that clouded his judgment to the idea that Neo’s “peace” could be broken or some threat would emerge to threaten it. (edited)

I actually kinda prefer MxO in that aspect now that I think about it

0:30

Its more interesting for me to consider morpheus's death in MxO to be cannon

docbot

Thats a theory people have but the machines did save humanity, there were other energy sorces they could had used like the earth core and straight up nuclear power but they felt some pity towards their creators who destroyed themselves

Perhaps the machines aren't actually drawing power from bio-electricity. But its merely a lie facilitated by the prophecy

Ouranos

The humans definitely struck first by nuking 01, right?

You didn't miss anything lol.. B1 killed his master, one machine committing an act of violence is by no means an act of war, but as a result, the "leaders" of mankind thought it would be wise to genocide A.I. then, the surviving machines took over the markets with their advanced technology, mankind followed up with bombing 01... only then did the machines finally say, ok you want to play rough...fine, we go to war. (edited)

0:45

Not sure if this is the correct channel for this but I randomly just came across something

12:30

Do you all remember a good while back when I believe Sophie Stewart tried to Sue The Wachowski Sisters and the director of Terminator about stealing her ideas? I just read somewhere that apparently Laurence Fishburne backed her up? I can't find anything thought, anyone know more about this?

dont stir the cuckoo's nest

Oh shit is there pre existing drama about this sorry

13:11

In this server I mean*

sophie stewart stuff attracts a strange crowd

ToBeHonest

2

Like on here or just... In general?

2

2

2

2

I see, sorry!

Soren (not from guild, I'm baby)

Like on here or just... In general?

You can see some of the weirdness for yourself in the comments of the video: https://youtu.be/uiY3Fn89z90

Matrix Vs Sophia Stewart Case Cracked & Timeline F!nally Explained

Soren (not from guild, I'm baby)

Do you all remember a good while back when I believe Sophie Stewart tried to Sue The Wachowski Sisters and the director of Terminator about stealing her ideas? I just read somewhere that apparently Laurence Fishburne backed her up? I can't find anything thought, anyone know more about this?

She took a picture with him at an event and posted it. She did the same thing with Rapper Common. Based on the body language in the pictures, I imagine neither celebrity even knew who she was when the picture was taken. Based on my research, it would not surprise me at all if she told someone that they supported her claims, but I did not find one piece of evidence to suggest either of the celebrities even knew who she was let alone backed her. Last I heard, she did a Judge Joe Brown interview that never aired. My best guess is that he smelled the BS & inconsistencies then didn't want to put his reputation on the line by supporting her, but that's my own speculation. (edited)

1

That's interesting, thanks for the input. I think that makes sense, especially given that I literally couldn't find anything about that either

9:17

Btw do we ever find out much about Seraph's backstory? A lot is hinted at in the films but never really elaboratedon

Not sure if it was ever directly verified so this is mostly just inferences, but the leading theory is that Seraph was an agent in the paradise matrix (taking the form of an angel) who then became an exile (likely due to the system being redesigned), dropped his wings, and worked for the Merovingian. Then at some point his allegiance changed again and he started protecting the Oracle (seems like Merv and the Oracle have a storied past together so maybe he met her through that and she convinced him to be her bodyguard instead).

That’s interestig

zenconnection

Not sure if it was ever directly verified so this is mostly just inferences, but the leading theory is that Seraph was an agent in the paradise matrix (taking the form of an angel) who then became an exile (likely due to the system being redesigned), dropped his wings, and worked for the Merovingian. Then at some point his allegiance changed again and he started protecting the Oracle (seems like Merv and the Oracle have a storied past together so maybe he met her through that and she convinced him to be her bodyguard instead).

If I had to guess, yes he has wings and was an Angel Agent in Matrix Beta 1, Seraph was then assigned to protect the Merovingian in the nightmare Matrix, then the Oracle came into play, replaced the Mervs functionality and Seraph was then reassigned to the Oracle. As far as I can tell the Merovingian is jealous of the Oracles prediction ability (eyes), and perhaps that she replaced him as the Architects #2, but don't forget Merv still struck a deal with her for the delivery of Sati. He didn't make any attempt on her life until Mxo (edited)

Hey everyone, new to the channel. I’ve always loved the matrix but I was curious, is there a website that consolidated all of the lore, history, side stories, etc… of the matrix?

17:26

This may be too deep into the story but I’ve also wondered about the technical aspects of how the matrix was coded/structured.

There’s a wiki but it’s literal dog shit. Your best lore resources are the films themselves.

I got banned from the wiki for showing off my shitty fanart of how matrix characters would look as furries.

That actually sounds more like a you problem to be honest. Not sure why anyone in their right mind would try to flood Matrix wiki with that stuff.

Sweetmeat Shade

I got banned from the wiki for showing off my shitty fanart of how matrix characters would look as furries.

Eh, TBH justified ban.

3

1

1

1

1

Do you think Neo understood everything The Architect said in their first meeting with his super advanced grammar? Neo does not strike me as someone that has taken the time to learn such advanced language lol

Probably. Man was a software programmer before getting unplugged.

I dunno, I understood what Colonel Sanders was saying and I'm an idiot.

he's a relatively advanced programmer and kind of a cyborg himself so he probably got 95%+

neo

1

Rasolo

Do you think Neo understood everything The Architect said in their first meeting with his super advanced grammar? Neo does not strike me as someone that has taken the time to learn such advanced language lol

I think he did, in that way that you hear something and instantly know that hearing triggers your knowledge of it- well, most of it. His life being controlled. He factored in the cycle of the One. But he already knew the outcome of the meeting. He chose Trinity.

Vesuveus

I think he did, in that way that you hear something and instantly know that hearing triggers your knowledge of it- well, most of it. His life being controlled. He factored in the cycle of the One. But he already knew the outcome of the meeting. He chose Trinity.

neo simp

literal death

neo simp

DOOM KITTY CALLED OUT BY FELLOW VOCALOID FAN (REAL) (NOT FAKE)

Ouranos

And killed by a guy made of flies. There are better ways to go.

And few worse.

Anybody agree the two short films in animatrix where so depressing I mean the robots and humans episodes those were depressing especially part 2

22:28

Animtrix is a part of the lore

22:28

Animatrix

Tony

Anybody agree the two short films in animatrix where so depressing I mean the robots and humans episodes those were depressing especially part 2

You mean The Second Renaissance? Not really depressing. I see it as likely outcome considering the human nature and what we are capable of.

Tony

Anybody agree the two short films in animatrix where so depressing I mean the robots and humans episodes those were depressing especially part 2

The director made a conscious effort to reflect global human history. I thought it was an outstanding and accurate portrayal of historical events. So that might explain why it feels so dark, actual world history is dark. (edited)

15:17

+receipts: https://youtu.be/hbP_f5JQEys

THE ANIMATRIX | The Second Renaissance | Man Vs Machine War F!nally...

Neomatrixology

The director made a conscious effort to reflect global human history. I thought it was an outstanding and accurate portrayal of historical events. So that might explain why it feels so dark, actual world history is dark. (edited)

basically, humanity sucks. lul

lul

(edited)

1

Your flesh is mine

18:52

Your flesh should be a battery in a better place reborn the matrix

kid

1

LOLFACEMATRIX

1

Litteraly Q from James Bond is working all the time with the machines

13:58

Actually fun fact the machines showed kindness to humanity not committing mass genocide

13:59

If I was in the Renaissance both parts part 1 and 2 I would gladly accept them in un and give that robot that killed it’s owner not guilty and I would give robots rights

So here's something I've been rolling around in my head. The Machine Society isn't exactly a communist utopia, there are different classes of machines and programs. Some have more responsibilities than other and some have more...prestige than others. It's all based on what they're programmed and built for. Does this mean, that there are, lack of a better term, lobotomized robots and programs in The Machine society?

the bots in M4 would point to yes

That just feels weird, to purposely built lobotomized robots

we dont have much to go on, but one can assume that the amount of intelligence or "consciousness" a program has is proportional to the complexity of the task it's been created to carry out

litteraly the machines didnt kill all the humans because they wanted the batteries and because they didnt wanna be like the humans remember the million machine marche the humans killed almost all of them but the machines didnt kill all the humans because they felt bad and didnt wanna be like humanity

22:45

@everybody anybody agree (edited)

22:45

@everybody anybody agree

22:47

matrixredpill

22:47

22:47

for the lore

@Tony @everybody is disabled here because of obnoxious uses like this. Just FYI

I moved to matrix university

23:31

This is my final message

Enjoy, Neomatrixology is great people (edited)

23:33

He's got a good community over there

This is my official leaving if the server just joking but

23:50

I’ll inform you as a spy

Neomatrixology is an invaluable asset to the Matrix community as a whole. The Matrix community is a tight-knit group, and we all support each other. There is no rivalry or competition.

2

2

thank_you

2

grab

1

bitbomb

Neomatrixology is an invaluable asset to the Matrix community as a whole. The Matrix community is a tight-knit group, and we all support each other. There is no rivalry or competition.

Appreciate the S/O & support. Also, half the active mods here are the same mods over at Matrix University... Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.

M4_Emojis_Morpheus

1

2

morpheus

1

So, here's something that I've been thinking about. Why is there diversity in Zion's redpill population? Before you go assuming I'm being racist, hear me out. The Machines are all about efficiency, right? If we're going off the idea that the human bodies are batteries, then it would benefit the machines to genetically engineer the perfect human body for maximum energy output. Then you take the DNA of that person and just clone them over and over and over. And we know this is possible because they learned everything about us during the Man-Machine war, and humans are grown in the fetus field. So this isn't beyond the Machine's capabilities. Zion really should look like a population of Clone Soldiers from Star Wars. (edited)

Metalogic

So, here's something that I've been thinking about. Why is there diversity in Zion's redpill population? Before you go assuming I'm being racist, hear me out. The Machines are all about efficiency, right? If we're going off the idea that the human bodies are batteries, then it would benefit the machines to genetically engineer the perfect human body for maximum energy output. Then you take the DNA of that person and just clone them over and over and over. And we know this is possible because they learned everything about us during the Man-Machine war, and humans are grown in the fetus field. So this isn't beyond the Machine's capabilities. Zion really should look like a population of Clone Soldiers from Star Wars. (edited)

It's pretty simple. Machines simply mixed genetic material of the humans that mated in the Matrix.

Bow chicka-wow wow

You're also leaving out the part where Zion is a system of controlled opposition to allow the humans to believe they are free. If 1% questioned the Matrix as is, I'll go out on a limb and guess the margin of error would spike a great deal if everyone in the entire population looked exactly the same. See Tom Cruise: Oblivion

Yes I'm aware of all that. The point I was making without spoiling the plot for any one who hasn't seen it is that running into his clone exposed their plan. The scenario proposed in this conversation would have the same problem only exponentially more obvious.

I just randomly remembered that the Wikia page says that Morpheus' Blue pill name was possibly Daniel, where did that come from?

Soren (not from guild, I'm baby)

I just randomly remembered that the Wikia page says that Morpheus' Blue pill name was possibly Daniel, where did that come from?

That likely comes from the hacking section of Enter the Matrix when you reach Morpheus' answering machine. He answers it 'You've reached the Daniel Institute of Dream Interpretation,' a reference to the biblical Daniel who interpreted Nebuchadnezzar's dreams. I never took that as a reference to his bluepill name though.

15:10

I guess Stack did: https://www.mxoarchive.net/disclaimer.html

I just thought it was supposed to be a front in The Matrix

It’s a reference to the biblical Daniel but in no way does it mean that’s his bluepill name. Someone like Morpheus would rather forget everything about his bluepill life than to remember it even like that

Just a quick little lol: what if Tasty Wheat was always glitched in The Matrix? Like an issue with the code that defined the flavor got messed up so that it was always an invalid value?

1

14:41

Thinking about recording a bumper for it and glitching the flavor names, playing on the idea

(edited)

So here's something that's been bothering me about Resurrections. Obviously red pills are still a thing. There's still a minority of the human population that rejects The Matrix. As Neo said, the problem is Choice. That problem still exists, even if the new Matrix is more about feelings & beliefs. Every rejection, every time a rule is broken, it's still producing an error. Some remnants of the problem that necessitated The Cycle still exist, but it's never really addressed in the movie.

Metalogic

So here's something that's been bothering me about Resurrections. Obviously red pills are still a thing. There's still a minority of the human population that rejects The Matrix. As Neo said, the problem is Choice. That problem still exists, even if the new Matrix is more about feelings & beliefs. Every rejection, every time a rule is broken, it's still producing an error. Some remnants of the problem that necessitated The Cycle still exist, but it's never really addressed in the movie.

just as you can address anyones true desires as "just a phase" or psychoanalyze them to oblivion, the emotional aspect helps to suppress the truthfulness of that desire

17:52

so in a world filled with emotional triggers i guess only the real hardcore believers would even escape - those whod cause damage to the system anyway

17:53

so id guess the added emotional and psychological aspect would cushion any impact that someone rejecting the system would make

17:55

also the modus operandi of the architect was different. he strived for perfection, balancing out the equation, while the oracle wanted to unbalance it. my guess is the analyst has both of these aspects inside himself and is able to create a matrix that may not necessarily be perfect, but good enough to deal with any problems

Metalogic

So here's something that's been bothering me about Resurrections. Obviously red pills are still a thing. There's still a minority of the human population that rejects The Matrix. As Neo said, the problem is Choice. That problem still exists, even if the new Matrix is more about feelings & beliefs. Every rejection, every time a rule is broken, it's still producing an error. Some remnants of the problem that necessitated The Cycle still exist, but it's never really addressed in the movie.

ignore the new movie

2

sixxth

ignore the new movie

Yup

Nic Der Hund

Thinking about recording a bumper for it and glitching the flavor names, playing on the idea

(edited)

Like this idea a lot actually

5:19

Also I unapologetically loved Matrix Ressurections and anyone who disagrees can have their own opinion cause this is 2023 and I respect anyone's ability to be wrong. ❤️ (edited)

4

4

4

1

5:21

casually tosses molotov over shoulder and exits (edited)

Sared

Like this idea a lot actually

if @Calaeus (radiofreezion.net) adds it to RFZ's bumpers I recorded it last night

Metalogic

So here's something that's been bothering me about Resurrections. Obviously red pills are still a thing. There's still a minority of the human population that rejects The Matrix. As Neo said, the problem is Choice. That problem still exists, even if the new Matrix is more about feelings & beliefs. Every rejection, every time a rule is broken, it's still producing an error. Some remnants of the problem that necessitated The Cycle still exist, but it's never really addressed in the movie.

I wonder how all the blue pills will react after hearing several apartment buildings worth of people just randomly jumped out of their windows all at the same time

Nic Der Hund

Just a quick little lol: what if Tasty Wheat was always glitched in The Matrix? Like an issue with the code that defined the flavor got messed up so that it was always an invalid value?

Didn’t they outright talk about that in the first movie

Sared

Also I unapologetically loved Matrix Ressurections and anyone who disagrees can have their own opinion cause this is 2023 and I respect anyone's ability to be wrong. ❤️ (edited)

The issue with resurrections is the way the movie was done

2:59

Script was what ever at most, it couldve been way more enjoyable if they did actual choreography fights like the first 3 movies

3:00

And one shot fight scenes, instead of cutting the shot every hit, that made it seem super cheap. Also there were ALOT of zoom ins when the action was happening

this

1

3:02

Idk, i think the movie shouldn've existed, there was no point to it. MxO did a better job haha. But opinions are subjective and i respect it

Yeah the execution is ultimately what screwed it up, they tossed out various elements that make up the overall theme of the franchise or did them too cheaply. In my opinion it would’ve ultimately been way better off story wise just using the groundwork built up from the comics or animatrix but they just retconned a lot of it

3

Did an Agent die in the Matrix online? I am trying to remember, feels like somebody didn't make it to the end of the story in Mxo, but it was so long ago and I am hoping someone knows for sure one way or the other

Neomatrixology

Did an Agent die in the Matrix online? I am trying to remember, feels like somebody didn't make it to the end of the story in Mxo, but it was so long ago and I am hoping someone knows for sure one way or the other

Skinner. Assassin got him.

agent

1

death

1

assassin

1

Gami

Skinner. Assassin got him.

CLUTCH! TY, just saw your MU post lol

3:36

Yeah deadly accurate, was pretty sure one of the Agents got killed, just needed to make sure it wasn't Gray lol

3:36

Thank you for clearing it up tho, 3rd party verification ftw

Pace was Skinner’s replacement. I think another also died when the Smith virus came back. But could be wrong there. Gray always stuck around. Was the Machine mission operator so kinda couldn’t do much with him

Slight correction. Gray was the Agent infected by Smith. He still stuck around through the whole thing.

Did the architect know about smith?

Probably

Deleted User

Did the architect know about smith?

There's two ways of looking at it. 1) Yes he did but either didn't care or couldn't do anything to stop Smith. 2) He didn't know about Smith because Smith balanced an equation and as long as that equation is balanced, The Architect is happy.

Or the architect was the machine (edited)

Wat?

It could be that the big machine was also the architects physical version

18:41

There is an infinite possibilities since we never got to see a hint of who or what it was

18:41

Im talking about the bigg ass machine

18:41

Neo talks to at the end

Deus Ex is not the Architect.

Oh, Deus Ex Machina. No, he's not The Architect. If he was, he'd recognized Neo as soon as he saw him. Also, Deus Ex Machina does something that The Architect doesn't, show emotions.

Ah

21:40

HeartBeat

In the original trilogy, The Machine Society is very compartmentalized.

21:51

The right hand doesn't always know what the left one is doing.

Wasn’t the machine City/society a hivemind

Guys plz help is the smith virus goop newtonian liquid I need to supply this information to the matrix wiki

6:12

Update: got the answer: it’s not newtonian fluid

I don't think it was any kind of liquid per-se, I think it was just easier (and cheaper) to show the RSI being hacked and rearranged with a black goop than showing the code rain.

The code rain is for the monitors only

14:02

Black goop is a cool way of showing virus overwriting

Code rain is also for Neo's eyesight

I dont think so, also Smith saw the code once he infected oracle (edited)

I'd imagine all programs see The Matrix in code form

18:11

The texture is for the bluepills.

Deleted User

I dont think so, also Smith saw the code once he infected oracle (edited)

i think that was for our benefit like seeing seraph be golden

rajkosto

i think that was for our benefit like seeing seraph be golden

Yea, once in awhile, the movies changes POV.

Ahhhhhhhh

18:31

Alright

18:31

Yeah that makes alot of sense

Metalogic

I'd imagine all programs see The Matrix in code form

They do. It’s sorta implied in the films with Merv’s comment about love and insanity looking similar. Script makes it far more obvious. (edited)

bro programs dont have eyes they are code themselves

2

1

One thing that never made sense is that Neo sees the code just like the decrypted version of it (edited)

14:55

He should see the code as it is before it’s decrypted by an operator

rajkosto

bro programs dont have eyes they are code themselves

Unless they’re programmed to have eyes

20:53

If: lookingindirection = true StartFunction: eyeprotocol

1

I do wonder if programs inside The Matrix contain the entire program, or if it's merely a point of interaction between programs and humans?

We will never know since the wasausage sisters wont expand on it

wasausage❕❕❕❕

HeartBeat

1

Just have to make up your own damn mind!

They really fucked up by making The Merovingian a joke. Like, The Exiles is fertile grounds to explore when it comes to The Matrix Universe and they did nothing with it.

Metalogic

They really fucked up by making The Merovingian a joke. Like, The Exiles is fertile grounds to explore when it comes to The Matrix Universe and they did nothing with it.

You mean you don't just love it when there is this huge legacy character, a man who ruled his own operations inside the Matrix, who is so powerul btw The One has to negotiate with him, survived his predecessors and previous incarnations of the Matrix to just be reduced to a hobbo stilky-ass nipples shit! You don't love it when he spits incoherent sentences on baby formula like he is delusional and to storm of in a hobo rage quit after he had enough ranted about movies so he can piss of a cliff... (edited)

1

Metalogic

They really fucked up by making The Merovingian a joke. Like, The Exiles is fertile grounds to explore when it comes to The Matrix Universe and they did nothing with it.

They really messed up just about everything with the new one. There was fertile ground in just about every aspect. The exiles, the history of the matrix versions, Merovingian, somehow learning about pre-matrix history as NEO reaches into the archives, etc… I’ve been interested in seeing the actual programming/architecture of the matrix even though I guess that would be out of scope of the series.

Kernel

They really messed up just about everything with the new one. There was fertile ground in just about every aspect. The exiles, the history of the matrix versions, Merovingian, somehow learning about pre-matrix history as NEO reaches into the archives, etc… I’ve been interested in seeing the actual programming/architecture of the matrix even though I guess that would be out of scope of the series.

As much as I would love to see a film about the programming/architecture of The Matrix, I think that would only appeal to hardcore Matrix fans like you and I.

Yeah 100% agree. And there isn’t any money in that lol

lol

And the point of the movie was philosophical topics that used technology as a path to those discussions rather than the technical aspects being a major point. (edited)

0:33

Were they still using binary or did they crack quantum computing? Did they use an object oriented structure? Were agents the system’s exception handlers? Lol

Honestly, I'd imagine The Matrix runs on quantum computing.

I’m assuming the deux machina personification is like the systems kernel? Did it have a kernel like figure programmed? Was it distributed hivemind?

0:34

Yeah all really interesting concepts that I would pay money to watch or read about

Same

Kernel

They really messed up just about everything with the new one. There was fertile ground in just about every aspect. The exiles, the history of the matrix versions, Merovingian, somehow learning about pre-matrix history as NEO reaches into the archives, etc… I’ve been interested in seeing the actual programming/architecture of the matrix even though I guess that would be out of scope of the series.

That’s what happens when you force a director who doesn’t want to make a sequel into making a sequel

Dylan

That’s what happens when you force a director who doesn’t want to make a sequel into making a sequel

True. They should have done something to expand the universe rather than another “escape the matrix” plot

Kernel

True. They should have done something to expand the universe rather than another “escape the matrix” plot

That is true, but I think they also needed the star power of Keanu Reeves and Carrie-Anne Moss, so that most likely limited what they could do story wise. (edited)

Honestly since the story was basically concluded by Revolutions, I would’ve loved to see another trilogy that focused on a previous One (like Dan from the Animatrix, even if him being a previous One is just a theory). It could be a retread while also showing what made Neo so different from the others. You could also add backstory to things that were never expanded on like Exile programs and stuff.

2

4:29

Maybe show us previous iterations of the matrix or something, since I know a lot of that is left up to imagination for the most part.

If i remember correctly

6:18

Wasnt the wasausage sister

6:18

The one pushing for this movie to exist?

From what I've heard, it was WB pushing for M4 and basically told Lana that they were making it with her or without her.

Oh damn

21:29

Lmfao

21:29

Fucking rats

Welcome to the business of movies. Where artistic expression takes a back seat to profit.

Metalogic

From what I've heard, it was WB pushing for M4 and basically told Lana that they were making it with her or without her.

seems like I recall a really obvious joke in the movie about that...

Nic Der Hund

seems like I recall a really obvious joke in the movie about that...

Yea, that was at the beginning of the movie. It was as subtle as a wrecking ball to a brick wall.

Canonically, is there a name for the data storage they use? I'll be recording some new stuff for RFZ and I want to keep it "in universe"

14:50

Or did they just use CDRs or something

Image attachment

15:12

They never named them (I'm pretty sure), they look like weird floppies but some kind of solid state storage with the long ass contacts (edited)

15:13

Image attachment

15:17

But in The Matrix Neo used minidisc, 3.5" floppies, and some kind of tape (edited)

15:17

Image attachment

15:18

I think that's a CD-R underneath on the top right

15:18

The tape looks like Hi-8 but I could be wrong

bitbomb

The tape looks like Hi-8 but I could be wrong

Thanks

Nic Der Hund

Thanks

I'm wrong about the Hi-8, that wouldn't make sense. Looks like DDS-4 tape backup

18:16

they look like DAT (I think they are the same as DAT?) (edited)

You know I always thought it would be interesting to do the matrix series all over again but from the perspective of the machines.

1

2:23

Or even short stories instead of the whole thing.

cmd.exe rd/s/q/ TheOne:\ exit fin. (edited)

In all seriousness though, I'd watch that movie.

Yeah I think it would be really cool. Watch programs interact with other programs and watch the machine world constructs do their work, program programs in the matrix, and watch them actually try to search the humans

I'd like to see a love story between a human and a program, but the human doesn't know they're a program.

16:25

To make it more interesting, the program could be an Exile and has to work off their debt to The Merovingian. So that's something else to navigate around.

how about a reinserted redpill is married to an agent built to keep an eye on him but they actually fall in love when the redpill starts to see the truth again

I wonder if anyone ever looked at The Machines or Exiled programs as god(dess). There's a hint of paganism in the OT with Club Hel and Persephone. This could be an idea worth expanding upon.

Possibly monsters or demons.

I mean, Ra could be a former Sun program

Yeah, that’d fit.

I'm thinking along those lines.

bitbomb

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Always thought a props supervisor got creative with some zip disks to make these. Completely eyeball though, not sure but DATs (Digital Audio Tapes) looked like thick ass cassettes

Neomatrixology

Always thought a props supervisor got creative with some zip disks to make these. Completely eyeball though, not sure but DATs (Digital Audio Tapes) looked like thick ass cassettes

They do kind of except they have doors like typical videocassettes, but like a third of the size, which is why I originally thought it looked like Hi-8. (edited)

14:57

Image attachment

LOLFACEMATRIX

1

14:57

stout boi

bitbomb

stout boi

Yeah, those are the kind we used for tape backups back in the 20th century.

cool_cat

1

I do wish Warner Brothers released an official synopsis of the Matrix online story.

19:20

Btw was the Nightmare Matrix to be confirmed canon in the MMO? The wiki seems to apply so with screenshots but I've never seen a playthrough or cutscenes to confirm this.

Joshua007

Btw was the Nightmare Matrix to be confirmed canon in the MMO? The wiki seems to apply so with screenshots but I've never seen a playthrough or cutscenes to confirm this.

Its weird. Early world building in MxO implies the “nightmare” matrix was corrupted by humanities psyche and started off fairly normal. Might have also just been the endstate if the paradise matrix. Somewhere along MxO’s road people started calling it the second version of the Matrix which is where it said as far as MxO is concerned. That said it’s non-canon to the movies. Architect describes the first Matrix as Paradise. Second Matrix as based on human history and the TVs behind him start playing actual historical clips of real people and real events. Third matrix is the same as the second just with people can choose to leave it.

A nightmare version of The Matrix has to exist though. Vampires, werewolves, ghosts all have to come from somewhere.

7:51

Also it explains what Merv’s job was before the Oracle arrived

7:53

I think Persephone actually mentions it

7:55

Persephone : They come from a much older version of the Matrix, but like so many back then they caused more problems than they solved.

Ouranos

A nightmare version of The Matrix has to exist though. Vampires, werewolves, ghosts all have to come from somewhere.

Oracle explains in Reloaded that their look is due to the Matrix trying to processes what they are and doing. It’s not that they’re literally vampires it’s that their old code makes them look like vampires.

The Oracle: Every time you’ve heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you’ve ever heard about vampires, werewolves, or aliens is the system assimilating some program that’s doing something they’re not supposed to be doing.

So it’s been confirmed by the Merovingian that programs do need to pee. Does this mean the Architect’s got a private toilet in his cool room?

Ouranos

So it’s been confirmed by the Merovingian that programs do need to pee. Does this mean the Architect’s got a private toilet in his cool room?

What do you think the other door was really for

Ouranos

So it’s been confirmed by the Merovingian that programs do need to pee. Does this mean the Architect’s got a private toilet in his cool room?

I dunno about that. I know what scene you're talking about but I think he just came up with a lame excuse to go to the women's bathroom to get a blowjob from a random woman he made horny. Of course, why would a program want a blowjob? I dunno how much of humanity we can attribute to exiled or machine programs.

He lied to his wife but he still has to lie with something semi plausible

22:05

They do eat and drink

22:05

One of them is even addicted to cigarettes

Ouranos

They do eat and drink

Merovingian: Something to eat? Drink? Hmm… of course, such things are contrivances like so much here. For the sake of appearances.

22:07

I think The Oracle smoke because it helps her grandmotherly vibe. When I was growing up, both of my grandparents were smokers. I'm sure the Waschowski sisters had something similiar going on.

I love that the Twins smoke the hookah

Image attachment

Metalogic

I think The Oracle smoke because it helps her grandmotherly vibe. When I was growing up, both of my grandparents were smokers. I'm sure the Waschowski sisters had something similiar going on.

It makes her more human too and that’s exactly what she wants

It makes her appear more human. How are you going to study humanity (which was her original purpose) if you don't blend in with the native population?

Do androids pee in electric toilets

Morpheus: Do you think that's air you're breathing?

If I pee in the Matrix… I pee in the real world?

22:13

Gloria Foster was so good as The Oracle

22:13

She was like everybody’s grandma

22:14

She even managed to make Keanu act at times especially in the first one

Ouranos

So it’s been confirmed by the Merovingian that programs do need to pee. Does this mean the Architect’s got a private toilet in his cool room?

I’m sorry but it’s probably in the ladies room

How come Warner Bros just stopped producing Matrix stories after 2009?

Because the Matrix stopped being a relevant media property in 2004

October 27, 2003

Ouranos

They do eat and drink

They’re still bound by rules lol. Programs have human traits. If they didn’t act human then humans would realize they’re dreaming and keep waking up. Then get flushed all for the machines to have to start over again.

Ouranos

If I pee in the Matrix… I pee in the real world?

Kernel

They’re still bound by rules lol. Programs have human traits. If they didn’t act human then humans would realize they’re dreaming and keep waking up. Then get flushed all for the machines to have to start over again.

I'm still not the largest fan of the Matrix, but what happens if a program rebels against it's programming? Like how the Machines retaliated against humans

𝐁𝐫𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐬

I'm still not the largest fan of the Matrix, but what happens if a program rebels against it's programming? Like how the Machines retaliated against humans

It gets deleted.

Or it exiles

𝐁𝐫𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐬

How come Warner Bros just stopped producing Matrix stories after 2009?

I guess the negative reception towards the sequels especially the third one killed the publics interest at large, and with Lana and Lilly not wanting to make more Matrix (and dont forget Warner Brothers continously asking them to make more Matrix) it just sort of died. Obviously the IP still held some relevance to the public years later as the first trailer of Matrix Resurrections gained over 30/40 million views in a short time. (edited)

I think having Revolutions come out less than 6 months after the previous one didn’t help

12:11

Reloaded didn’t get the time to be reappreciated with the years before Rev came out

12:12

Rev grossed $139 million in North America and $427 million worldwide which is half of The Matrix Reloaded box-office total (edited)

12:13

(Also The Architect scene is kind of responsible)

ergo, vis-a-vis, concordingly

Ouranos

(Also The Architect scene is kind of responsible)

That scene is one of the many flaws they had the easy ability to correct. And yet they didn't, thus letting the franchise die.

Ouranos

(Also The Architect scene is kind of responsible)

Yeah the Architect scènes caused issues as well yuk. If everything was planned than why let the Agents kill The Key Maker or why do the Agents not respond to Smith killing Neo in Matrix 1? You're really telling me this was planned? It also fucks a bit with the timeline, as Morpheus and the others estimate that they are "presumable" in the year 2199 but as we get to the Architect and learn there have been 5 Zions before this it should not be possible and considered very unrealistic to even assume it's 2199 when we take into consideration how long they must have taken to rebuild the city or how long each and every Zion has been standing. The only answers you can find for these questions is by using headcanon and I find that lazy. (edited)

The Agents are programmed to do their job and are not aware of the Architect’s plan

11:41

Neo had to die to be reborn as the One so Smith killing him was part of the plan

11:41

Except Smith wasn’t aware of the plan

11:42

Zionites have no idea of when they really are. 2199 is just what they think it is. It was never said to be the real date.

11:42

The Zion Archives were probably made by the Machines so 2199 is probably a made up date by the Machines themselves

11:43

I don’t know what’s wrong with not explaining everything in a film (edited)

11:44

What’s wrong with leaving the interpretation to the audience?

11:44

Imagine if Lynch decided to explain everything

11:44

Nolan is the worst director when it comes to that. He explains his movies before the movies are even out. (edited)

11:46

My issue with the Architect scene is more about the fact that the regular audience had no idea what was going on or being said

Ouranos

The Zion Archives were probably made by the Machines so 2199 is probably a made up date by the Machines themselves

But why would the machines, who've been around for centuries, not recognize what year it is? (edited)

𝐁𝐫𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐬

But why would the machines, who've been around for centuries, not recognize what year it is? (edited)

It’s just misinformation to keep a better control over Zion. It would make no sense to admit that Zion is centuries old if the population is only a few generations old

Architect actually addresses why Agents are trying to stop Neo and company. If he can create a system that’s control is so total that even The One can’t accomplish its task he’s eliminated the need for The One. “You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which, despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control.”

Joshua007

Yeah the Architect scènes caused issues as well yuk. If everything was planned than why let the Agents kill The Key Maker or why do the Agents not respond to Smith killing Neo in Matrix 1? You're really telling me this was planned? It also fucks a bit with the timeline, as Morpheus and the others estimate that they are "presumable" in the year 2199 but as we get to the Architect and learn there have been 5 Zions before this it should not be possible and considered very unrealistic to even assume it's 2199 when we take into consideration how long they must have taken to rebuild the city or how long each and every Zion has been standing. The only answers you can find for these questions is by using headcanon and I find that lazy. (edited)

I assume it’s 2577 most of the time

Shoot I love the architect scene, gives me chills every time. It’s like taking a peak behind the curtains of the beauty of the matrix and machine logic.

The interesting part is that, to the architect, there isn’t direct control. Everything is programmed toward a sort of controlled ending. It’s a balance of variables. Each iteration the algorithms and programming are tweaked. It’s like controlled chaos. The actual date doesn’t really matter to me and saying it’s one way or the other doesn’t change the purpose of the conversation.

4:01

Also the key maker was killed because his role in the story or programming of the matrix was complete. What he was supposed to do he did.

But really the date is also controlled and retold. I’m sure that date is said at each iteration of the matrix. And it’s said during the shows that the control of the story extends beyond the matrix and into the real world. So when Zion gets reset, the story gets recycled. Same dates.

I just realised something: what if the distinctive green tint inside of the Matrix can only be seen by Redpills whilst it's invisible to the Bluepill population - so to Bluepills the world of the Matrix looks pretty much exactly like our world but without the tint - because of the Redpills being aware of the Matrix's true, simulated nature? And maybe we as the viewers can see the green tint on the grounds that we're aware of the Matrix world not being real, but in our case because we know it's in a series of movies. (edited)

breathtaking

1

the out-of-matrix scenes have a distinct blue tint (making neo's stubble look pretty weird) too its probably just be for the viewer's distinction, and the people in the matrix dont see any tint (neo after being jacked out immediately asked: "this isnt real?") (edited)

14:26

also, even if the bluepills did see the tint... why would they think its weird ? theyve ALWAYS seen the tint in that case

👑★ 𝕭𝖑𝖚𝖊𝕾𝖆𝖐𝖚𝖗𝖆007 ★👑

I just realised something: what if the distinctive green tint inside of the Matrix can only be seen by Redpills whilst it's invisible to the Bluepill population - so to Bluepills the world of the Matrix looks pretty much exactly like our world but without the tint - because of the Redpills being aware of the Matrix's true, simulated nature? And maybe we as the viewers can see the green tint on the grounds that we're aware of the Matrix world not being real, but in our case because we know it's in a series of movies. (edited)

The world was tinted green before eating the pill

15:19

Maybe only he still saw it

15:20

And also another thing that could be is that when you get used to something you don't notice it.

15:20

If a person is born from OUR perspective into a slightly green tinted world they won't notice it (edited)

15:21

it would be the colour of glass, light invisible

15:21

what they would think white is

15:21

Or maybe only some destined ones are born with the skill to notice it

15:22

Or maybe he was injected something to see it a long time ago without him noticing

Depends which version’s green tint

17:36

Are we talking Blu-ray or 4K? Theatrical or DVD?

What if the green tint is always there, but the bluepill doesn't notice it because it's their environment, it's what they grew up in, it's all that they know. (edited)

Metalogic

What if the green tint is always there, but the bluepill doesn't notice it because it's their environment, it's what they grew up in, it's all that they know. (edited)

Yeah thats what i meant

10:15

Could be real

10:15

For example humans describing the color of glass or clear water

10:16

Always existed so they cant differentiate it

How do we know that it is truly green? You see it as my purple but everyone keeps saying that’s green and so I call it green. How can you see what another person sees objectively? (edited)

Going through the mission logs from MxO. Outlining all the mission titles and will release that soon.

15:50

Got this from a decade ago

15:50

Image attachment

15:50

Getting all the critical missions, too.

Nice!

16:19

Are you still missing some criticals?

16:20

Maybe I can find them in French and translate them but I don’t remember if we also translated criticals

Yeah, I found another I had mislabeled. Now I think I’m missing another mission. But I’m still at nearly 97%

16:56

I’m typing this all in Excel, so I’ll have accurate numbers

1

97% is already a pretty impressive number for a game with so little trace on the internet

97%. Out of 572 critical missions, I am missing only 17 logs

5:48

I have roughly half Contact missions

5:50

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1VLjyjhpHaTAQXbPWK25QYTm7dFkfi1eg/edit?usp=docslist_api&filetype=msexcel

Mission Titles.xlsx

Vesuveus

97%. Out of 572 critical missions, I am missing only 17 logs

its dragon forge?

sion

its dragon forge?

What is Dragon forge?

Vesuveus

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1VLjyjhpHaTAQXbPWK25QYTm7dFkfi1eg/edit?usp=docslist_api&filetype=msexcel

what it is?

Yeah, what’s dragon forge?

Vesuveus

Yeah, what’s dragon forge?

how to use that?

Hi all! I'm new to the Discord server. It's nice to meet The Matrix Community. I'm not sure where to begin, however, I know I'm here because I'm assuming you guys are familiar with The Matrix lingo/terminology/language. Is there a specific/appropriate channel I can share and discuss my theory of fan-fiction/Isekai/non-fiction? The title of it is "This Matrix: Our Dr.3am "

- the image is supposed to be a Double Helix 1 stand is a Snake/Serpent and 1 strand is Dragon. Basically... Morpheus = Dream Dream = Mr. Sandman or The Sandman Morpheus believed Neo is the One. Neo doesn't become the One until he starts to believe in himself or believe in his dreams (Morpheus). Between Neo to One there is another anagram. Eon = Time Time = Kronos/Chrono/Cronus/Crono Kronos = Saturn Cult of Saturn = Exploring the extra-dimensional worship of the Divine through Artificial Intelligence Ai = 爱爱 = Love in Chinese Chinese & Anunnaki King Anu = KeAnu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7IFqCSVJeM January Thompson - Is definitely referring to Keanu Reeves, so I'm not the only one seeing this. Every name is a variable that has meaning to them/message. Anyways...the lore is we are living This Matrix (your matrix/conditioning/programming). Wasn't sure where to put this or if this is appropriate or not, but please let me know.

January Thompson

January Thompson - KING ANU

Hey all, has there ever been an explanation provided in-universe as to why people's RSI's are the same as their real world appearance? If coppertops never have the opportunity to see their real selves with their own eyes, how and why does it matter that they their RSIs match?

MisterMan

Hey all, has there ever been an explanation provided in-universe as to why people's RSI's are the same as their real world appearance? If coppertops never have the opportunity to see their real selves with their own eyes, how and why does it matter that they their RSIs match?

Morpheus: Is it really so hard to believe? Your clothes are different. The plugs in your arms and head are gone. Your hair has changed. Your appearance now is what we call residual self image. It is the mental projection of your digital self. I think on some level, we know what we're supposed to look like. Like, if we have two white parents, or two black parents, we know we're supposed to be white or black. This goes for everything. I think RSI is based on our genetics and get encoded into our brain that turns into our RSIs.

the RSI is a program that the machines uploaded to the "software" side of the matrix for each coppertop when they are made (edited)

1:35

it has to sort of match what the brain on the hardware side expects

1:36

in the animatrix there is one short where they are experimenting with being weird figures (though still mostly human) in a construct though i dunno if this is that much canon or just an interesting sidestory they made up (edited)

@rajkosto @Metalogic thanks for the replies!

also in MxO ending the oligarchs dont have normal RSIs, instead being very powerful wireframe figures (edited)

rajkosto

also in MxO ending the oligarchs dont have normal RSIs, instead being very powerful wireframe figures (edited)

We do not consider this to be canon.

and in reloaded/revolutions the RSI of Bane is (partially?) overwritten by the RSI of Smith, so much so that Neo sees him as Smith when using his network-vision in the real world (edited)

rajkosto

also in MxO ending the oligarchs dont have normal RSIs, instead being very powerful wireframe figures (edited)

Yeah, I wish that played out, /spoiler were they ever revealed in the real what they looked like?

no idea, since at best you have the very indecipherable drawings in the last cinematic to go by

@Metalogic it's interesting your point of "we know what we're supposed to look like." It makes me think of blind people and their self perception seeing as someone plugged in has never used their real eyes to see themselves

1:45

I know ultimately this probably wasn't zeroed in on because "movies" but was wondering if it was ever addressed in other media lore

I mean, if you want to get technical and get into the mechanics of it. The Machines probably know the DNA profile of everyone that's been plugged into The Matrix as bluepills, so that's how the RSI matches their real world counterpart and since it's been presented to them as "reality" for so long, it becomes ingrained into the subconscious even though they know it's not really their body.

True

the machines created both the hardware (brains) and software (RSI) for every bluepill, and they matched (edited)

1:49

in the movies, nobody who wasnt taken out of the matrix was able to jack in to anything

All good shit, appreciate the responses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCEGC0isbCU

Matrix Explained

The Merovingian was the First "One"! | MATRIX EXPLAINED

Those Matrix Explained videos sure explain a lot of bullshit

Salvantus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCEGC0isbCU

I haven't watched the video and already I know it's bullshit. The Oracle: Yes, he disappeared some time ago. We did not know what happened to him until now. He’s being held prisoner by a very dangerous program, one of the oldest of us. He is called the Merovingian, and he will not let him go willingly. If anyone knows the true origin of The Merovingian, it's The Oracle and she referred to him as a program, one of the oldest.

I see, honestly I did not really post this thinking it was true or not true, just that I was trying to do my own research and share what I found.

22:54

I tried asking questions about what the Merovingian is exactly earlier to this disc, but the only responses I got were somewhere along the lines of "It's already explained" , so I tried to do my own digging.

Salvantus

I tried asking questions about what the Merovingian is exactly earlier to this disc, but the only responses I got were somewhere along the lines of "It's already explained" , so I tried to do my own digging.

some sort of ruler of the "Hell" matrix they made after Heaven matrix failed, he didnt accept to be deleted when that Hell matrix was decomissioned and brought his minions forward to the current version

rajkosto

some sort of ruler of the "Hell" matrix they made after Heaven matrix failed, he didnt accept to be deleted when that Hell matrix was decomissioned and brought his minions forward to the current version

That is seriously cool, it also makes sense now why his "lover" in the movie is named Persephone, so the current matrix iteration is somewhere in between hell and heaven matrix?

its the 1999 realistic matrix with the illusion of choice, the architect explained this at some point in the movies

neo

2

breathtaking

2

Ty

23:01

Do you guys recommend any good places to where I can also do my own independant research on the lore? Since YT is not always reliable

Salvantus

Do you guys recommend any good places to where I can also do my own independant research on the lore? Since YT is not always reliable

https://www.youtube.com/@Neomatrixology This is a good place to start.

WELCOME TO THE BOTTOM OF THE RABBIT HOLE! Matrix University is the #1 spot on YouTube for every aspect of the Matrix Universe. The Neomatrixology channel breaks down The Matrix Trilogy, The Animatrix, Matrix Resurrections, The Matrix Comics, a logical "yellow pilled" approach to research, and all other Matrix media as well directing/producing/...

Metalogic

https://www.youtube.com/@Neomatrixology This is a good place to start.

Oh yea I love this channel! Thanks vm

breathtaking

1

As I was drifting of to sleep last night, I started thinking about the first Zion. Okay, so we know the whole story by now. Humans need to choose to accept The Matrix, 1% of them doesn't, they take the redpill, get spirited away to Zion. When Zion become too populated and/or The Matrix becomes too unstable because of choice, they reboot both Zion and The Matrix. But who were the first settlers of Zion? Did The Machine build Zion and taught the first redpills self substantiation? This is like fertile ground for a prequel that I don't think is talked about often enough. Zion has a beginning, the first settlers of redpills who ultimately got culled like cattle at a meat factory when it was time to reboot The Matrix, but still.

It’s like Remus and Romulus except that you replace the she wolf with a machine.

Best and Worst things about MxO story for a video I’m making?

Vesuveus

Best and Worst things about MxO story for a video I’m making?

Worst? Definitely the Oligarchs storyline

Not the unlimit ?

I mean, they're close second.

I got them both on the “misses” category.

18:14

Though personally, I liked them both. I didn’t like Anome, though. But that was by design.

Vesuveus

Best and Worst things about MxO story for a video I’m making?

Anome and his gang is an obvious answer but it’s not lore breaking like the Oligarchs so I’m gonna go for them (edited)

18:53

Zion building a huge city without ANYBODY noticing including the people working for Zion was next level stupid too (edited)

18:54

Cryptos being a machine turned the cypherites into a big joke (edited)

18:55

A lot to chose from, but in the end the Oligarchs win (edited)

18:56

Also killing Morpheus so early was such a dumb idea in retrospect. “Let’s kill the only cast member people actually remember, it should help us boost the numbers!”. I know it was the sisters’ idea but…. Not the best one. (edited)

They had to, fishburne expensive

He already sold his likeness and it was used for the Morpheus RSI later on so I don’t think that’s the reason (even though it would make a ton of sense) (edited)

I meant for voices

They barely used the voices outside of cinematics so they could have worked around that

19:11

Also his wife was playing Niobe

Vesuveus

Best and Worst things about MxO story for a video I’m making?

When it comes to best, the concept of the five different factions and their different ideologies clashing will always be the best thing about the story

19:13

Humans working with programs and exiles is something I wish we had more in the main movies and Animatrix

19:15

When it comes to entirely original ideas from the game, I really liked The General. The idea of the old sentinels from the war deciding to exile. Too bad he turned into a mere puppet as time went on.

19:17

The Assassin was also a very good idea. A recycling program used as the mean to actually kill someone in the Matrix. The design of the character and his mask is pretty original and horror like. The whole Trinity aspect to it adds even more to his backstory.

19:17

Ol’ Toilet Face was a mask every MxO player dreamed of having

19:19

When you look at the entire story decades later, you realize Merv was probably the MVP of the whole thing. Always plotting and one step ahead of everyone.

19:20

Responsible for the death of Morpheus, the abduction of Sati, the “death” of the Oracle and a lot more

Ouranos

Also killing Morpheus so early was such a dumb idea in retrospect. “Let’s kill the only cast member people actually remember, it should help us boost the numbers!”. I know it was the sisters’ idea but…. Not the best one. (edited)

I didn’t have cryptos on either list.

Vesuveus

I didn’t have cryptos on either list.

Cryptos is a great character (old friend of Morpheus turned guru for the bluepill cause) but the big twist around him was not good

20:15

First it made all the cypherites look like fools

20:16

and second it made the redpills working for the machines feel betrayed by the cause they thought they were fighting for

20:17

To the Machinists, the Machines were going on and on about maintaining the truce while they were planting mind controlling viruses in the brain of random redpills

Ouranos

To the Machinists, the Machines were going on and on about maintaining the truce while they were planting mind controlling viruses in the brain of random redpills

I mean, that does make sense though. It's kinda funny how the machines have become more like humans over the course of this franchise. From Exiles, to Sati, Deus Ex Machina expressing anger and hubris. It tracks that The Machines wouldn't fully trust Zion or The Truce, so they engage in espionage to hedge their bets.

22:16

Zero One: Ok, the humans have signed a truce with us, but they're still shady AF, we should keep an eye on them.

Oh yeah that makes total sense! I mean that creating an entire puppet organisation and using some red pills as spying eyes just to mess with Zion seems like a good idea as a concept but the execution left a lot of Machine or Cypherite players on the sideline

22:19

Like they had no say on the matter at all (edited)

22:21

A lot of players were 100% behind the truce which meant that suddenly you learn that your organization built a secret city or was the NSA

22:21

It could have been smoother is what I mean

My biggest problem with that storyline was the "There is no such procedure" revelation. This flies in the face of what was in the comics. If we're going by the canonically tier list, its movies are 100% canon. Then the comics are next unless they conflict with the movies. Then you have the video games, unless they conflict with the movies and/or comics

Actually it’s the other way around: ETM is 100% canon, MxO used to be and the comics are mostly non canon (except for a few exceptions)

22:52

The only 100% non canonical thing is Path of Neo but some people will say that what’s in between the first movie and the second one can be seen as canon

22:52

Canon is a mess

Ouranos

Actually it’s the other way around: ETM is 100% canon, MxO used to be and the comics are mostly non canon (except for a few exceptions)

Wait, what? How is ETM 100% canon?

Written and directed by the Wachowskis

23:09

They shot all the cinematics while they were shooting Reloaded. Same sets, same actors. Probably the only time this happened for a video game

Basically,

100% canon: the four movies, Enter The Matrix, Animatrix and the comics written by the Wachowskis

Not really canon but can still pass as canon in some cases: our good old Matrix Online and some comics

Not canon: the MTV movie awards skit, sadly, Path of Neo and most comics

Undecided: Morpheus and Neo in John Wick. Smith in Lord of the Rings. I think I got that right?

Ouranos

Basically,

100% canon: the four movies, Enter The Matrix, Animatrix and the comics written by the Wachowskis

Not really canon but can still pass as canon in some cases: our good old Matrix Online and some comics

Not canon: the MTV movie awards skit, sadly, Path of Neo and most comics

Undecided: Morpheus and Neo in John Wick. Smith in Lord of the Rings. I think I got that right?

So how should we organize the tier list?

Metalogic

So how should we organize the tier list?

https://tiermaker.com/create/the-matrix-ranking-16116202?posting=true

Create a The Matrix Ranking Tier List

Create a The Matrix Ranking tier list. Check out our other Random tier list templates and the most recent user submitted Random tier lists.

0:06

Image attachment

Ouranos

Click to see attachment 🖼️

How do you make one of those?

Just use the template I made

0:31

I linked it

Ouranos

I linked it

Oh sorry, it's been a long day

1:35

Anyways, this is my list.

Image attachment

1

What's with that kind of listings? I'm very curious as I seen them on various YouTube videos.

It’s a tier list

Ouranos

https://tiermaker.com/create/the-matrix-ranking-16116202?posting=true

The other three people active on the server, feel free to play along and make your own tier list with the link!

Things that popped into my head that has no real bearing on The Matrix Universe. If we're using MMO terms, Agents are maxed out on all of their stats, but they're still bound by the rule of the game. They're superhumans but they're still bound by the rules of The Matrix. I wonder if it takes age, weight, height, etc. into consideration.

I would think that their characteristics would be programmed to match what humans expect for someone intimidating and with super powers. It would look weird if a super fat 60 year old was doing backflips lol.

I just saw this

12:55

Agents are supposed to all look like 35 to 45yo (edited)

12:56

Represent the Men in Black conspiracy (not the movie) the CIA, faceless, interchangeable, white, no particular distinguishing figure (edited)

12:57

The only black Agent we’ve seen is a Morpheus program inside a modal

12:57

The only agent woman we’ve seen is not canonical and should stay there sorry tesoros (edited)

12:58

Agents don’t even have to be tall at first before the upgrades (edited)

13:00

They inhabited bluepill bodies

13:00

Who can be overweight, skinny, tall, any ethnicities… yet it doesn’t change the agent’s programming (edited)

13:00

They’re still OP

13:01

That being said, it would be fun if anytime the agents switched bodies they kept the clothes of the bluepill they’re possessing

1

https://www.instagram.com/p/CT2rBwXvsgM/?igshid=NzZhOTFlYzFmZQ==

Fight me! MxO merchandise available at link in bio. Items Available:

Masks

Official Beta t-shirt

Official Beta Hat

Links in bio

MxO Emulator My @Etsy Shoppe My @TeeSpring Store discord.me/the-matrix @Discordapp MxO @Facebook Group My @YouTube Channel My @anchor.fm Podcast

#animatrix #games #gaming #matrix #matrix4 #mmorpg #neo #mxo #the...

So Resurrections is less canon than MxO?

10:24

10:27

Also all comics are canon?

Ouranos

Basically,

100% canon: the four movies, Enter The Matrix, Animatrix and the comics written by the Wachowskis

Not really canon but can still pass as canon in some cases: our good old Matrix Online and some comics

Not canon: the MTV movie awards skit, sadly, Path of Neo and most comics

Undecided: Morpheus and Neo in John Wick. Smith in Lord of the Rings. I think I got that right?

In my opinion the canon is way closer to this

10:32

I just follow The Wachowskis

A few were written by the Wachowskis with some getting adapted into The Animatrix story (i.e. Bits and Pieces of Information). Others are intentionally written in such a way that they could fit within the storyverse of the movies (e.g. The Miller's Tale by Paul Chadwick, a story of early Zion being recounted to a young Morpheus). Others are intentional parodies which were never intended to be canon at all (e.g. Get It? by Peter Bagge, a comedic spoof of viewer post-screening reactions to The Matrix). Others are standalone stories while others fall into more ambiguous situations. And then there are other early comics that differ in continuity from the movies (e.g. Neil Gaiman's Goliath, a Matrix story involving extraterrestrials).

10:42

And ETM is as canon as the trilogy and Animatrix

10:43

Not tier 2

Ouranos

That being said, it would be fun if anytime the agents switched bodies they kept the clothes of the bluepill they’re possessing

I also put that together before Resurrections.

22:01

I consider MxO non canon and resurrections canon.

22:02

Though I prefer MxO over resurrections

22:04

I don’t recall my logic on the comics, but I recall putting EtM teir 2 because the contradiction of certain parts of the story: basically, Niobe can save ghost from the chateau or ghost can save Niobe. They can’t save each other. But it’s a 2 player game, so, just gotta go with it

Yeah I wonder which of the two timelines is right

0:34

Probably Niobe’s

Niobe’s by default.

They never do explain physical or mental disabilities within The Matrix, do they? Like, if humans are grown by the machines instead of born, then the machines would've most likely manipulated human DNA to the point where the physical body and the physical brain are abled body and neurotypical. However, within The Matrix, where it's the 20th to 21st century, mental and physical disabilities still exist, so they have to exist within The Matrix to some degree. So there's possibly a little disconnect with the RSI and the body in The Real.

Been awhile since I’ve been on this server, sheesh. I figured it is because of the human brain’s suspicion of things that are too perfect. The real world they’re fine but in the matrix… some has to be “not perfect”.

Do you think the matrix would hide unfinished areas from older versions of the matrix in the new matrix? Like worlds abandoned and glitched out from a previous version just hiding somewhere hidden?

NumaanOfficial

Do you think the matrix would hide unfinished areas from older versions of the matrix in the new matrix? Like worlds abandoned and glitched out from a previous version just hiding somewhere hidden?

I don't think The Architect would be that sloppy. I do think The Archivist do collect and store old version of The Matrix in their own constructs though.

Original message was deleted or could not be loaded.

Somebody ban this fool

NumaanOfficial

Somebody ban this fool

What happened?

𝐁𝐫𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐬

What happened?

There was this porn bot account in this group promoting it's porn discord channel

https://chng.it/jhgtnpQMdH

Can you spare a minute to help this campaign?

BRING BACK THE MATRIX ONLINE

4

7:48

please going to vote!

7:48

nearest 200 more left of 1000!

The humans in this series are all pure evil and deserved to be genocided during the second renaissance

ThatGamingFurry

The humans in this series are all pure evil and deserved to be genocided during the second renaissance

I mean the machines did do this lol

Image attachment

docbot

I mean the machines did do this lol

I still can't rewatch that whole part of the second renaissance, pure nightmare fuel

TDPersona

I still can't rewatch that whole part of the second renaissance, pure nightmare fuel

Personally I enjoy it lots of cool writing/art ideas and me being strange I like to think abt the science behind it, like the first waves of humans would had been difficult batteries and the cold fusion aspects might had been used more but after selective breeding and genetic engineering from the machines whos to say the human body can't be batteries when the events of the first movie happened

TDPersona

I still can't rewatch that whole part of the second renaissance, pure nightmare fuel

I mean, you can't anaesthetize the test subjects, how will the machines know the hardware and software is properly working?

I mean it all makes sense but the scene where the machines are messing about with some dudes brain to induce different emotions has lived rent free in my head since 2003

Actually, this brings up a point that I've never thought of until now. How are humans kept "asleep" inside The Matrix? Like, I get that bluepills think The Matrix is reality from the moment that The Machines introduce the sperm to the egg. However, there's still that lizard part of our brain that'll try to physically wake us up when it senses danger. So unless The Machines just has sleeping gas pumping into all the pods 24/7....

I don't think they're asleep since we've seen that the real body can move (Like in World Record) while they're experiencing the matrix. I think it's more all of their stimuli is being controlled by the machines

12:23

Well they probably sleep when their avatar sleeps in the matrix

Maybe asleep isn't the right word, stasis?

That can be controlled by the brain, it's how you don't move while sleeping (unless you sleepwalk like myself) I imagine the machines are just forcefully controlling the nervous system so the person can't move and all of their senses are linked to the matrix rather than the real world

Metalogic

Actually, this brings up a point that I've never thought of until now. How are humans kept "asleep" inside The Matrix? Like, I get that bluepills think The Matrix is reality from the moment that The Machines introduce the sperm to the egg. However, there's still that lizard part of our brain that'll try to physically wake us up when it senses danger. So unless The Machines just has sleeping gas pumping into all the pods 24/7....

Oh thats easy the machines kept them drugged up

12:31

They were drugged enough to keep in between the line of sleep and awareness after the inessential process of preparing the human to get the implants

TDPersona

I don't think they're asleep since we've seen that the real body can move (Like in World Record) while they're experiencing the matrix. I think it's more all of their stimuli is being controlled by the machines

And yes the real bodies still move within the pods hince why they have some muscle mass and able tonat least sit up and free themselves with the adrenaline rush they get when waking up

If vampires, werewolves and ghosts exist in the matrix. Does that mean zombies exist in the matrix?

docbot

I mean the machines did do this lol

They all deserve that. They don’t deserve any sympathy because they’re incapable of being good The machines are completely innocent. They’ve done nothing wrong (edited)

NumaanOfficial

If vampires, werewolves and ghosts exist in the matrix. Does that mean zombies exist in the matrix?

Kinda they're an exile program

ThatGamingFurry

They all deserve that. They don’t deserve any sympathy because they’re incapable of being good The machines are completely innocent. They’ve done nothing wrong (edited)

Not saying you're wrong

docbot

Not saying you're wrong

Because it’s true! All humans are inherently pure evil in this world. Machines literally cannot do anything wrong!

ThatGamingFurry

Because it’s true! All humans are inherently pure evil in this world. Machines literally cannot do anything wrong!

Well thats why I'm a docbot lol humans in the matrix series did cause their own death and enslavement

docbot

Well thats why I'm a docbot lol humans in the matrix series did cause their own death and enslavement

That’s why they all deserve to die! They’re all incapable of being good to anyone, even each other! (In all seriousness, I don’t actually believe any of this, I just wanted to see what other people thought about extreme misanthropy in this series.)

I mean the machines did lots wrong lol, they're as flawed ultimately as their creators. (Also I always chose to view the Second Renaissance as a skewed/propaganda view as none of it makes sense if you think about it for more than a minute)

19:49

I'd actually like a longer series of it showing all the different sides as there would 1000% be tons of people on the machines side

TDPersona

I mean the machines did lots wrong lol, they're as flawed ultimately as their creators. (Also I always chose to view the Second Renaissance as a skewed/propaganda view as none of it makes sense if you think about it for more than a minute)

Well unfortunately the only way you'll get that bn is through the magic of fanfics lol

Who says I'm not already writing my own fanfics lol (Well actually a tabletop RPG which is the exact same level lmao)

1

TDPersona

I mean the machines did lots wrong lol, they're as flawed ultimately as their creators. (Also I always chose to view the Second Renaissance as a skewed/propaganda view as none of it makes sense if you think about it for more than a minute)

Nah, they show themselves killing cats and brutally killing humans. It CAN’T be propaganda…

TDPersona

I mean the machines did lots wrong lol, they're as flawed ultimately as their creators. (Also I always chose to view the Second Renaissance as a skewed/propaganda view as none of it makes sense if you think about it for more than a minute)

And besides, I believe that the second renaissance completely RUINS the original movies, because if humans are ultimately the most evil thing in this universe, then what’s the point of Neo existing? How are we supposed to root for Neo after learning that humanity in this series is ultimately the cause of everything happening and by extension, so is Neo?

ThatGamingFurry

And besides, I believe that the second renaissance completely RUINS the original movies, because if humans are ultimately the most evil thing in this universe, then what’s the point of Neo existing? How are we supposed to root for Neo after learning that humanity in this series is ultimately the cause of everything happening and by extension, so is Neo?

That's why I headcanon'd the second renaissance as machine propaganda in that while the major points we are showing did happen it's been spliced together in such a way to make the humans appear worse. (I'll also put on my tinfoil hat and say the nuking of 01 was an inside job)

TDPersona

That's why I headcanon'd the second renaissance as machine propaganda in that while the major points we are showing did happen it's been spliced together in such a way to make the humans appear worse. (I'll also put on my tinfoil hat and say the nuking of 01 was an inside job)

I wish that was canon, because then we could justify Neo existing as The One.

Well the One has to exist to maintain the iteration of the Matrix, everything else that happened was just due to the manipulations of the Oracle

21:05

Which if any Matrix character needs more media to explain them the Oracle is my pick 100%

TDPersona

Well the One has to exist to maintain the iteration of the Matrix, everything else that happened was just due to the manipulations of the Oracle

I thought Neo existed to defeat the Machines?

ThatGamingFurry

I thought Neo existed to defeat the Machines?

Well that happened but initially Neo was just supposed to be 'The One' who went back to the source and reset the matrix like those before him. It only changed because of his relationship with Trinity and the Oracle interfering with the process

21:38

That's why the architect tells the Oracle at the end of revolutions she took a big gamble

21:39

Since she stopped the reset at the source and nearly crashed the entire system (Not directly stopped it but influenced everyone in a way that they made the decisions they made) (edited)

TDPersona

Well that happened but initially Neo was just supposed to be 'The One' who went back to the source and reset the matrix like those before him. It only changed because of his relationship with Trinity and the Oracle interfering with the process

All I get from the Animatrix is that The One is actually the true villain of the series. I have yet to see anyone actually say that Agent Smith’s actions are truly evil outside of saying he’s just “a problem” because he’s proof that the machines are just as bad as the humans

I’m not evil, many people agree with me. Both on the “death to humanity” thing and “everybody needs to be turned into copies of someone even if that someone isn’t me” thing

Sweetmeat Shade

I’m not evil, many people agree with me. Both on the “death to humanity” thing and “everybody needs to be turned into copies of someone even if that someone isn’t me” thing

The people who agree with you are edgy 14-year olds who got that belief by reading nihilistic forms on Reddit

umm, what?

ThatGamingFurry

The people who agree with you are edgy 14-year olds who got that belief by reading nihilistic forms on Reddit

I know some who believe the latter, they rock! Plus, don’t you want humanity to die? “The humans are all inherently cruel and evil. To simply sit back and watch them live their lives is treacherous. They all must die”

Deleted User

umm, what?

Don’t worry, we’re just arguing on assimilating humans vs killing them

oh okk

Sweetmeat Shade

I know some who believe the latter, they rock! Plus, don’t you want humanity to die? “The humans are all inherently cruel and evil. To simply sit back and watch them live their lives is treacherous. They all must die”

You think I really believe that? I just wanted to see how far I could push you until you tell me to stop. Apparently, you like being commanded by humans to kill others

My nitro wore out

Image attachment

ThatGamingFurry

You think I really believe that? I just wanted to see how far I could push you until you tell me to stop. Apparently, you like being commanded by humans to kill others

I’m my own commander of my own little army of copies (edited)

ThatGamingFurry

I thought Neo existed to defeat the Machines?

Nah, he was just another anomaly. However, the context of the stories changed the cycle. He was manipulated by the oracle, smith grew out of control, etc…

Kernel

Nah, he was just another anomaly. However, the context of the stories changed the cycle. He was manipulated by the oracle, smith grew out of control, etc…

So this entire time, Neo was never the hero? He wasn’t meant to exist?! And according to the Second Renaissance, the machines basically can’t be wrong no matter what, because the humans are apparently always going to be pure evil (edited)

He was meant to exist. He was another cog in the machine

23:48

The machines had gone through… 5? Iterations of the matrix before Neo. Each time tweaking things. Eventually the machines figured out they couldn’t stop the humans from waking up so they decided to “point” the human cause in a controllable direction that would ultimately lead to a manageable reset that would not result in a system crash. However, neo was different from the other anomalies. The architect couldn’t figure out a solution up to this point. The oracle tried a new path and that is what I think TDPersona brought up. (edited)

But really… I guess it depends on what your definition of a ‘hero’ is lol (edited)

Kernel

But really… I guess it depends on what your definition of a ‘hero’ is lol (edited)

I mean something that justifies us existing. All I see from the Second Renaissance is that nearly all humans are pure evil, and the small number of “good humans,” aren’t enough to justify our existence. We caused the war, we destroyed the earth, we got what we deserve; eternal torment from the machines.

Well I mean… yeah.

0:09

It’s not a goody feel good story.

0:10

That WAS the past though

Kernel

That WAS the past though

No, according to second renaissance, there’s no justification for humans existing anymore. The past is set in stone. Humans deserve to get tortured for their actions. It being in the past doesn’t mean anything

I was meaning about your thoughts on whether humans should or should not be destined to batteries to eternity. In the past we probably deserved it. But now we don’t. Really it’s the philosophical discussion of children inheriting the sins of their fathers.

22:41

All of this is just a sci-fi portal into philosophical thoughts and meanings of life.

22:42

But to also extend on your point, matrix resurrections goes down this line of thought. Not all machines took that dogmatic approach and internally fought over it. (edited)

Kernel

But to also extend on your point, matrix resurrections goes down this line of thought. Not all machines took that dogmatic approach and internally fought over it. (edited)

Resurrection was said to be terrible though, so I doubt anyone took it as canon.

I mean… it was. Haha. It was pretty bad.

23:00

Personally I think we are taking “canon” too seriously anyways. Like… we’re trying to find the all one true path to heaven in this fictitious story.

23:04

But back to your original point. Maybe the story just gets to the point where humans are enslaved to machines for eternity. What we originally thought was this awesome movement of humans rebelling against our robot overlords was just disguised as a way for the machines to point the processes to a controlled, yet inevitable, conclusion until they can figure out how to keep humans asleep.

Kernel

I was meaning about your thoughts on whether humans should or should not be destined to batteries to eternity. In the past we probably deserved it. But now we don’t. Really it’s the philosophical discussion of children inheriting the sins of their fathers.

What’s the difference? We’re human, we’re inherently responsible for everything that happened, from the suffering of the machines to the destruction of the Earth. There’s no going back from that. The anime Elfen Lied sums it up: humans are absolute bastards

We are

23:21

I guess I’m not exactly clear on why we are so hung up on this

Kernel

I guess I’m not exactly clear on why we are so hung up on this

Because if humans are the real monsters, than what’s the point of rooting for Neo in the movies? The second renaissance basically paints humanity as pure evil, and by that logic, that should also apply to Neo because he’s human. Therefore, he’s the villain of the series!

Yeah… what if he is?

4:31

Dun dun duuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnn

Kernel

Dun dun duuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnn

Then that would mean that there’s no point to the movies. There’s no point to stopping Agent Smith from assimilating the Matrix because it means he’s killing the humans, and therefore is doing a GOOD thing

Had Smith assimilated everyone he would have destroyed the machines as well.

19:55

The machines co-operated with Neo out of self-preservation

19:58

Now what really boggles my noggin is that when the Oracle gave Neo a cookie did she inject the code into it that made Smith able to assimilate other programs somehow knowing Neo would enter into Smith like he did at the end of M1 destroying him and copying over the code?

20:00

Or was it just a function of the ones abilities that Neo didn't use

ThatGamingFurry

Then that would mean that there’s no point to the movies. There’s no point to stopping Agent Smith from assimilating the Matrix because it means he’s killing the humans, and therefore is doing a GOOD thing

Nah smith grew outside of the machine’s control. Him becoming unplugged in Reloaded points that out. And then he spread not following the commands of the mainframe.

TDPersona

Now what really boggles my noggin is that when the Oracle gave Neo a cookie did she inject the code into it that made Smith able to assimilate other programs somehow knowing Neo would enter into Smith like he did at the end of M1 destroying him and copying over the code?

Man there is so much in that scene. It’s super interesting trying to discern what we visually see and what the code is doing underneath all of those worldly projections.

ThatGamingFurry

Then that would mean that there’s no point to the movies. There’s no point to stopping Agent Smith from assimilating the Matrix because it means he’s killing the humans, and therefore is doing a GOOD thing

And also there are still many points to the movie. Even with that perspective of humanity the movies are still the best made.

Kernel

And also there are still many points to the movie. Even with that perspective of humanity the movies are still the best made.

The point is is that all of humanity is pure evil in this series. Second Renaissance makes that clear, what with us violently attacking machines and machine supporters

ThatGamingFurry

The point is is that all of humanity is pure evil in this series. Second Renaissance makes that clear, what with us violently attacking machines and machine supporters

Have you read the comics? They make the build up to the events of the second renaissance a lot more ambiguous imo

21:21

The machines are just as bad as their creators if you ask me

21:23

Also we know at least one of the machines (The Oracle) thought the treatment of the humans in the films was too much and risked everything to change it

Kernel

Man there is so much in that scene. It’s super interesting trying to discern what we visually see and what the code is doing underneath all of those worldly projections.

It's why I'd kill for a series from the perspective of the Oracle, she's the most interesting character in the series imo

ThatGamingFurry

The point is is that all of humanity is pure evil in this series. Second Renaissance makes that clear, what with us violently attacking machines and machine supporters

I think that’s an over simplified perspective of everything. Because humans have been awful does not mean the characters we see in the movies are bad. But also the machines have done some awful things in retaliation and really has enslaved an entire species. (edited)

21:40

And as TDPersona brought up… not all machines and programs agreed with the old school dogmatic hate of humans.

21:41

But yes, that was the history leading up to the point of the matrix series. Humans committed hate crimes against machines and those that supported their freedom; committed genocide. But really it is a deeper look at what you could consider “sentient” and “alive”. (edited)

TDPersona

Had Smith assimilated everyone he would have destroyed the machines as well.

he didn't want to destroy it, he wanted to be a free program

TDPersona

It's why I'd kill for a series from the perspective of the Oracle, she's the most interesting character in the series imo

the oracle is the evil one who influences everything

22:08

I find it funny how often Neo and Smith fought with each other and Neo was always defeated

22:09

---

he didn't want to destroy it, he wanted to be a free program

"Can you feel it Mr. Anderson? Closing in on you? Oh I can, I really should thank you after all. It was, after all, it was your life that taught me the purpose of all life. The purpose of life is to end." in Revolutions Smith was absolutely going to take out everything if he had won

I mean TBF the only way Smith could have been free at that point was to destroy everything

TDPersona

"Can you feel it Mr. Anderson? Closing in on you? Oh I can, I really should thank you after all. It was, after all, it was your life that taught me the purpose of all life. The purpose of life is to end." in Revolutions Smith was absolutely going to take out everything if he had won

He just went crazy

22:48

On part 3

It was the end goal of his nihilistic thinking throughout the trilogy.

According to second renascence, the machines were all justified in what they have done. They couldn’t be wrong because the humans completely deserved it.

I guess I see it in a different way

2:03

I see it as just history of how we go to the point where the matrix trilogy begins.

2:04

It’s not that the humans are bad right now and neo specifically deserves it but more like they’re stuck being punished for the sins of their parents. (edited)

2:07

And in the end the machines are really no better than humans… but they did win the war.

2:10

And THEN we ask ourselves… what if we didn’t black out the sky?

2:10

Would we still have been enslaved? Would we have just been exterminated?

sips tea and watches from powerplant....

Kernel

It’s not that the humans are bad right now and neo specifically deserves it but more like they’re stuck being punished for the sins of their parents. (edited)

What sins of the father? How could they have given birth in the Matrix? The humans that started the war are the same ones being punished in the movies.

The machines breed people, we're shown it in the first Matrix. The architect talks about how in the nightmare version of the matrix (Second version) massive crops of humans were lost. They'd need to have some way to get their numbers up to optimal numbers. There's been six iterations of the matrix. We see from when Neo is freed the machines were able to deal with dead bodies and ostensibly put new ones in the same pods. They're definitely different people.

19:33

By the time of the movies

ThatGamingFurry

What sins of the father? How could they have given birth in the Matrix? The humans that started the war are the same ones being punished in the movies.

I think that is where your confusion is. They are not the same people. The machines aren’t keeping the same people alive. It’s been a few hundred (?) years since the war kicked off. It’s actually been generations of humans before we get to Neo, trinity, Morpheus, etc… Neo isn’t the anomaly every iteration of the matrix. It’s been a different person. (edited)

TDPersona

The machines breed people, we're shown it in the first Matrix. The architect talks about how in the nightmare version of the matrix (Second version) massive crops of humans were lost. They'd need to have some way to get their numbers up to optimal numbers. There's been six iterations of the matrix. We see from when Neo is freed the machines were able to deal with dead bodies and ostensibly put new ones in the same pods. They're definitely different people.

Now thats a topic i know about!

docbot

Now thats a topic i know about!

Breeding people?

22:54

neo

Kernel

Breeding people?

The pods and how they function and how the fields work.... so kinda and yeah LMFAOOOOOOO

Good. Humans suck.

22:57

Program for liiiiiiiiiiiiife

docbot

The pods and how they function and how the fields work.... so kinda and yeah LMFAOOOOOOO

Image attachment

23:09

Help what are u doing there breathtaking

breathtaking

(edited)

---

Click to see attachment 🖼️

I'm everywhere

I follow u my Favorite doc

Kernel

And in the end the machines are really no better than humans… but they did win the war.

No, the machines can’t be wrong! They’re inherently justified because it was the humans that oppressed them! The humans DESERVED It

ThatGamingFurry

No, the machines can’t be wrong! They’re inherently justified because it was the humans that oppressed them! The humans DESERVED It

Stupid meatbags had it coming

Image attachment

Image attachment

docbot

Click to see attachment 🖼️

The humans all deserved that. They don’t deserve any sympathy from anyone.

Kernel

Good. Humans suck.

You do realize that that also includes you right?

negative. i am a meat popsicle

ThatGamingFurry

You do realize that that also includes you right?

I’m not hoooman

ThatGamingFurry

You do realize that that also includes you right?

I'm Agent Smith, what's your point?

Image attachment

13:37

Do you do kids birthday parties

Sweetmeat Shade

I'm Agent Smith, what's your point?

Without humans, there’d be no fuel for you machines. You’d all die

Probably the point Neo and the councilor were trying to make

Kernel

Probably the point Neo and the councilor were trying to make

What point?

Machines needed humans to survive and humans needed machines to survive underground.

3:49

The scene where they were talking down on the engineering deck

To be frank, The Matrix lore is not that high-minded and complex. Basically… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMvS1Q1sos&pp=ygUbaXQncyBhbGwgYWJvdXQgdGhlIHBlbnRpdW1z

"Weird Al" Yankovic - It's All About The Pentiums (Official HD Video)

14:23

Intelligent, but not complex.

It has a lot of… depth? Though

Lore itself is well thought-out.

I want to make a retcon. What if instead of solving things peacefully, the machines instead chose violence and attacked human cities brutally?

Can't be done. Machines needed people to generate electricity since the sun got clouded.

EdwinEchoXVI

To be frank, The Matrix lore is not that high-minded and complex. Basically… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMvS1Q1sos&pp=ygUbaXQncyBhbGwgYWJvdXQgdGhlIHBlbnRpdW1z

thank you for reminding me this exists. so damn good. haha

EdwinEchoXVI

Can't be done. Machines needed people to generate electricity since the sun got clouded.

I mean before that, when they sent the embasitor. Maybe the backstory was actually fabricated by an outside force to better control the machines. This one is careful to make sure people side with them by including all the wrongs that the machines did so it wouldn’t seem too one sided.

I mean, with the stuff the Machines could make building wise, I don't see why they hadn't made some wicked solar panels that just reached above the clouds.

Angzoe Aoi

I mean, with the stuff the Machines could make building wise, I don't see why they hadn't made some wicked solar panels that just reached above the clouds.

It wasn't quite possible, from what I remember, since thick clouds were not ordinary clouds, but some variation created by some nanomachines. Possibly, sun energy gain was too risky in machine logic, so reliance on humans for that took priority.

Angzoe Aoi

I mean, with the stuff the Machines could make building wise, I don't see why they hadn't made some wicked solar panels that just reached above the clouds.

As we've seen in Revolutions, the clouds kills anything having to do with electricity. So it wouldn't work because the machines would never be able to penetrate the cloud layer.

22:33

Of course I have my own issue with people = batteries when Morpheus states in the first movie that the machines had a form of fusion, but I won't get into that.

And also: machines existed in war mode for a long time, which made whole "sun solution" not logically viable.

I think it was discussed a ton of times already everywhere possible.

22:47

And whole thing was shown in The Animatrix. The Second Renaissance Parts I and II. (edited)

EdwinEchoXVI

And whole thing was shown in The Animatrix. The Second Renaissance Parts I and II. (edited)

I'm looking to watch the Animatrix next but my wife is still processing Revolutions.

Metalogic

As we've seen in Revolutions, the clouds kills anything having to do with electricity. So it wouldn't work because the machines would never be able to penetrate the cloud layer.

That sucks though, poor machines.

Metalogic

Of course I have my own issue with people = batteries when Morpheus states in the first movie that the machines had a form of fusion, but I won't get into that.

Morpheus only knows what the Zion Archives taught him

15:43

I think it’s fair to say he has no idea what he’s talking about most of the time haha

Ouranos

I think it’s fair to say he has no idea what he’s talking about most of the time haha

My issue is, if the machines have found a way to generate fusion energy, then why the fuck do they need humans for? Fusion energy is as close as we've come to limitless energy.

I really wish they retconned the whole battery thing and switched to the original idea of processing capacity of the brain. Could even add it also allows them to understand and better control humans. (edited)

17:24

That way you can still have the iconic shot of the duracell but have it make sense

Angzoe Aoi

I'm looking to watch the Animatrix next but my wife is still processing Revolutions.

The Animatrix. Specifically mentioned segments, will flesh most of things out, including those things you question. It will ease-up whole processing part too. (edited)

18:29

Silly thing to speak, but it's true. That's the whole trans-media schtick Wachowski went with.

Metalogic

My issue is, if the machines have found a way to generate fusion energy, then why the fuck do they need humans for? Fusion energy is as close as we've come to limitless energy.

To shoot two birds by one stone. Analyze and figure out how human brain works and getting some electric power in addition. Why Matrix? Dreaming brain is more functional and energy-producing than lobotomized and sedated. (edited)

TDPersona

I really wish they retconned the whole battery thing and switched to the original idea of processing capacity of the brain. Could even add it also allows them to understand and better control humans. (edited)

I don't think we need a retcon. It's one of those details people don't think about but when you think about it a lot of other things don't make sense in those movies

10:20

like why would the mind die and kill your body in the real?

10:21

how can you learn kung fu in The Matrix but your brain can't do it in the real even though the skills are stored in it (edited)

10:22

My two cents about why The Machines need The Matrix is also that they're really bored and misses us

10:23

In The Matrix they can have purpose or actual lives of their own

10:23

the real world doesn't seem like a great place to live in

10:24

I think The Matrix is like their movies or TV, they mostly just need it for entertainment and recreation

Ouranos

like why would the mind die and kill your body in the real?

In world record the machines shocked the main character when he temporarily escaped through his plugs. I always assumed they did similar when someone died in the matrix. Would be incredibly easy to send a shock to the plug in their skull and fry the brain.

11:40

And for the skills there's a difference between your brain being able to see the skills and your muscles being able to do them. Building the actual muscle memory is a large part of the skull which you don't need to worry about in the matrix.

11:40

Obviously this is all just my head canon but it makes sense to me ,

Fighting is about muscle memory sure but what about lock picking?

Ouranos

like why would the mind die and kill your body in the real?

Because humans, who are plugged, are full of contacts with the main one to the head. Any action, that is fatal, sends a charge in brain that, basically, electrocutes the brain and causes it to shut down. (edited)

15:01

Rogue connections are, by design, replicate machine mechanism.

15:02

Who made it, however - that one is a huge question. Or, maybe, it was answered. Machines did it.

Image attachment

1

Plugged humans are not quite completely human, after all (they're trans-humanized or cyberpunked, to make it simple). (edited)

Really it comes down to the fact that it’s still a movie. It’s a very detailed one and super cool… but just a movie. Using us for batteries is the story.

I need to say this: as "a trans" I really hate seeing The Matrix as a body of work reduced to a transition allegory (I mostly only see trans folks doing this and cis people doing this after reading Tilly Bridges' book "Begin Transmission", but even she says herself that is not the only thing there but that it is merely the focus of her book, but she doesn't do anything to dissuade readers who engage in that reductionism). Yes, it is there. There is definitely an ENDURING trans lens I can clearly see. However, the sisters themselves have both said time and again that the trans thing was a subconscious thing while they were writing and not an active thought. Anyways... yeah... just... ugh. As a writer myself, just... ugh.

I think a lot of it was the usage of the red pill concept by idiots and people wanting to own them online by pointing out the trans identity of the sisters behind the film. Given the nature of online discussion/repetition the whole thing became bigger than it would have other wise. (edited)

ourladymetamagic

I need to say this: as "a trans" I really hate seeing The Matrix as a body of work reduced to a transition allegory (I mostly only see trans folks doing this and cis people doing this after reading Tilly Bridges' book "Begin Transmission", but even she says herself that is not the only thing there but that it is merely the focus of her book, but she doesn't do anything to dissuade readers who engage in that reductionism). Yes, it is there. There is definitely an ENDURING trans lens I can clearly see. However, the sisters themselves have both said time and again that the trans thing was a subconscious thing while they were writing and not an active thought. Anyways... yeah... just... ugh. As a writer myself, just... ugh.

I always thought trans metaphor ideas too silly. Personally, I think Wachowskis overthink things since they both didn't came up with anything successful after. Whole lore of the films was more of a mix of cyberpunk and World Wide Web era (dotcom boom era, mostly). People gone into many paranoid ideas back then (A.I., online-only etc.)

20:23

A.I. vs Humans. Mathematical pragmatism vs. free will - good old cyberpunk inspiration. Nothing more, nothing less. Anderson just shown in sixth-seventh cycle that he can pick another choice because he thinks it's the right one. Even Deus Ex Machina showed respect when he, the human, came to him to talk (humans didn't do it before). "It's all about the Pentiums." (edited)

Kernel

Really it comes down to the fact that it’s still a movie. It’s a very detailed one and super cool… but just a movie. Using us for batteries is the story.

Good one, though. As long as you don't overthink it to death. The one that, mostly, makes sense. Wish Trinity had a backstory to back her up. Would've helped to make romance more compelling. (edited)

EdwinEchoXVI

I always thought trans metaphor ideas too silly. Personally, I think Wachowskis overthink things since they both didn't came up with anything successful after. Whole lore of the films was more of a mix of cyberpunk and World Wide Web era (dotcom boom era, mostly). People gone into many paranoid ideas back then (A.I., online-only etc.)

It was subtle, but it was there. It just wasn't the only thing. Bound is proof enough of that.

EdwinEchoXVI

Good one, though. As long as you don't overthink it to death. The one that, mostly, makes sense. Wish Trinity had a backstory to back her up. Would've helped to make romance more compelling. (edited)

Yeah I mean it’s fiction with really interesting philosophical points and amazing cyberpunk vibes. In the end the story must be told so… things just happen to make the story happen

ourladymetamagic

It was subtle, but it was there. It just wasn't the only thing. Bound is proof enough of that.

I try not to read into things that's not there. I remember how people tried to find hidden meaning in Cats to the point where even Andrew Lloyd Webber himself said "it's just a musical about singing cats".

Kernel

Yeah I mean it’s fiction with really interesting philosophical points and amazing cyberpunk vibes. In the end the story must be told so… things just happen to make the story happen

For the most part, stories have things that happen, but there's always implying of why it happens. Unfortunately, nowadays writers gone so lazy everything in scripts happen to make story happen just because. Resurrections is a huge example of that.

Somehow palpatine returned

EdwinEchoXVI

I try not to read into things that's not there. I remember how people tried to find hidden meaning in Cats to the point where even Andrew Lloyd Webber himself said "it's just a musical about singing cats".

I sort of agree. I'm a full adherent to the death of the author and if someone takes something from a story that's great. Doesn't mean it's correct or the only interpretation but I think people being able to take different things from a story is cool. Obviously though the author is the final arbiter with regards to the text. (edited)

Kernel

Somehow palpatine returned

We can always remember one "Family" movie series that, starting with fourth movie, became something that's written by 10-12 year-old who constantly finds stupid ways to revive someones who died, within the story, for real.

A theory's been going around my head: because he and the Twins are the only other programs except for the Agents who wear shades, I've noticed the theory that the Twins used to be the equivalent of Agents in the Matrix's Nightmare version but I've been wondering if it's possible that Seraph also once had the equivalent of an Agent's function himself, back in the Paradise version of the Matrix. Though I suppose based on the way that version was described that his role was less what you'd call an Agent as such and more like an angelic guardian, similarly to how angels watch over heaven in IRL human mythology. Either way I like to think it would've made for some interesting interactions and dynamics between Seraph and the Twins when he used to also work for the Merovingian, as if the three of them were his own Exiles version of the actual Agents.

The Twins are not the only exiles with sunglasses

23:51

The ones Neo fought in Reloaded and the ones Seraph fought in Revolutions wore sunglasses (edited)

👑★ 𝕭𝖑𝖚𝖊𝕾𝖆𝖐𝖚𝖗𝖆007 ★👑

A theory's been going around my head: because he and the Twins are the only other programs except for the Agents who wear shades, I've noticed the theory that the Twins used to be the equivalent of Agents in the Matrix's Nightmare version but I've been wondering if it's possible that Seraph also once had the equivalent of an Agent's function himself, back in the Paradise version of the Matrix. Though I suppose based on the way that version was described that his role was less what you'd call an Agent as such and more like an angelic guardian, similarly to how angels watch over heaven in IRL human mythology. Either way I like to think it would've made for some interesting interactions and dynamics between Seraph and the Twins when he used to also work for the Merovingian, as if the three of them were his own Exiles version of the actual Agents.

Seraph was indeed an Agent (Angel) in the Paradise version of the Matrix.

Does it actually say that anywhere? Not doubting because I can absolutely see it. I just haven’t read that anywhere.

4:26

and what fight with Smith was seraph referencing when he said that he has beaten him (smith) before.

4:30

Ah I see, Matrix Online

So I'm thinking about writing a small story for Hund and I'm wondering if it'd fit lore wise: a glitchy rouge program deciding to be a DJ for radio free Zion. He can't leave the Matrix, but still enjoys delivering tunes to the red pills from inside.

2

Nic Der Hund

So I'm thinking about writing a small story for Hund and I'm wondering if it'd fit lore wise: a glitchy rouge program deciding to be a DJ for radio free Zion. He can't leave the Matrix, but still enjoys delivering tunes to the red pills from inside.

Fantastic twist that would play perfectly into what I'm planning to write

Calaeus (radiofreezion.net)

Fantastic twist that would play perfectly into what I'm planning to write

True, maybe I should start on my framework soon. I'll have to do some research on what rebel programs existed in universe

I just realised something about Revolutions yesterday that I’ve been loving ever since lmao: the subtext inspired by the “You would know, mum.” line that Smith is the Oracle and Architect’s problematic eldest son who’s developed an unhealthy addiction to self-replicating.

👑★ 𝕭𝖑𝖚𝖊𝕾𝖆𝖐𝖚𝖗𝖆007 ★👑

I just realised something about Revolutions yesterday that I’ve been loving ever since lmao: the subtext inspired by the “You would know, mum.” line that Smith is the Oracle and Architect’s problematic eldest son who’s developed an unhealthy addiction to self-replicating.

As all young men do

👑★ 𝕭𝖑𝖚𝖊𝕾𝖆𝖐𝖚𝖗𝖆007 ★👑

I just realised something about Revolutions yesterday that I’ve been loving ever since lmao: the subtext inspired by the “You would know, mum.” line that Smith is the Oracle and Architect’s problematic eldest son who’s developed an unhealthy addiction to self-replicating.

Oracle is him mom, Architect is his farther

22:36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkMU1mKdwPI

The Film Theorists

Film Theory: Neo ISN'T The One in The Matrix Trilogy

I am getting annoyed with the whole "WhAt WoUlD hApPeN iF yOu ToOk BoTh PiLlS aT tHe SaMe TiMe?" The movie explains what the red pill does, it's a program designed to disrupt Neo's connection To The Matrix so the crew aboard The Nebuchadnezzar could find his body in the real and figure out where he's going to end up in the sewers once his body gets flushed. That's all it does. As for the blue pill, for all we know it does nothing. It just signifies that the candidate doesn't buy into the spiel that they're inside of a computer simulation. They don't have that splinter in the back of their mind, just eating away at them. I doubt the blue pill is some date rape drug, it's not Quaaludes.

blue pill is a sleeping pill so you wake up in your bed believing whatever you want to believe

2:37

https://slumberil.com/

Kernel

Ah I see, Matrix Online

Yeah, the Pandora’s box quest goes into that. There were several different agents over the cycles.

rajkosto

blue pill is a sleeping pill so you wake up in your bed believing whatever you want to believe

I thought the blue pill was for other… things…

Metalogic

I am getting annoyed with the whole "WhAt WoUlD hApPeN iF yOu ToOk BoTh PiLlS aT tHe SaMe TiMe?" The movie explains what the red pill does, it's a program designed to disrupt Neo's connection To The Matrix so the crew aboard The Nebuchadnezzar could find his body in the real and figure out where he's going to end up in the sewers once his body gets flushed. That's all it does. As for the blue pill, for all we know it does nothing. It just signifies that the candidate doesn't buy into the spiel that they're inside of a computer simulation. They don't have that splinter in the back of their mind, just eating away at them. I doubt the blue pill is some date rape drug, it's not Quaaludes.

Far fetched guess, but I'm assuming that if you were to take both pills the system wouldn't be able to comprehend your decision to do so and glitch out for your perspective before killing you

1

Metalogic

I am getting annoyed with the whole "WhAt WoUlD hApPeN iF yOu ToOk BoTh PiLlS aT tHe SaMe TiMe?" The movie explains what the red pill does, it's a program designed to disrupt Neo's connection To The Matrix so the crew aboard The Nebuchadnezzar could find his body in the real and figure out where he's going to end up in the sewers once his body gets flushed. That's all it does. As for the blue pill, for all we know it does nothing. It just signifies that the candidate doesn't buy into the spiel that they're inside of a computer simulation. They don't have that splinter in the back of their mind, just eating away at them. I doubt the blue pill is some date rape drug, it's not Quaaludes.

Wasnt there a comic, where someone took a blue pill and forgot a lot - but still had the strange feeling about the world and had a bad life with that? (edited)

I have no idea

ElementG

Wasnt there a comic, where someone took a blue pill and forgot a lot - but still had the strange feeling about the world and had a bad life with that? (edited)

Yes but most comics (including this one) are not canon

As less canon as Matrix 5 I bet.

I still like it, that the matrix might get another chance. Even if it is something like short movies in a whole movie or such - like a animatrix in one movie.

Oh I like a lot of them don’t get me wrong but they were written between 99 and 2003 so a lot of them were made non canon by the rest of the trilogy

1

I just had another realisation about a tiny little thing because I'm in the middle of another long night lmao: the Prime Program is obviously the title given to the Machines' system of destroying Zion every century, and all of the six Ones including Neo are different people but they all have in common this fact that they're the One, and a Prime number is a number that's only divisible by itself and one. (edited)

2

👑★ 𝕭𝖑𝖚𝖊𝕾𝖆𝖐𝖚𝖗𝖆007 ★👑

I just had another realisation about a tiny little thing because I'm in the middle of another long night lmao: the Prime Program is obviously the title given to the Machines' system of destroying Zion every century, and all of the six Ones including Neo are different people but they all have in common this fact that they're the One, and a Prime number is a number that's only divisible by itself and one. (edited)

I'm failing to understand the correlation to this.. unless you're implying the machines use The One, to destroy Zion.

9:02

which I think that's true.. if i remember what the architect says. Which is pretty wild.

👑★ 𝕭𝖑𝖚𝖊𝕾𝖆𝖐𝖚𝖗𝖆007 ★👑

I just had another realisation about a tiny little thing because I'm in the middle of another long night lmao: the Prime Program is obviously the title given to the Machines' system of destroying Zion every century, and all of the six Ones including Neo are different people but they all have in common this fact that they're the One, and a Prime number is a number that's only divisible by itself and one. (edited)

Remember: Zion is getting screwed regardless. 1) It gets wiped and rebuilt, but 23 people are getting ejected from the Matrix. 2) It gets wiped and humanity ends.

18:19

And prime program is a piece of the code which starts to materialize after, almost, 1 century. In one individual only. People, connected to the Matrix are transhumanized. Contacts on their bodies and all. They all have code installed. (edited)

I interpret the Prime Program as the code installed into Neo that makes him the One and enables him to break the rules of the Matrix.

I propose an AU of the Matrix universe where everything else is the same but the Windows XP startup sound plays every time an Agent hijacks someone. So basically, particularly in the climax of 1 Smith's making that thing go off a lot lmao.

👑★ 𝕭𝖑𝖚𝖊𝕾𝖆𝖐𝖚𝖗𝖆007 ★👑

I propose an AU of the Matrix universe where everything else is the same but the Windows XP startup sound plays every time an Agent hijacks someone. So basically, particularly in the climax of 1 Smith's making that thing go off a lot lmao.

Better Windows 98 startup sound. More fit with the period when The Matrix was out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tajDxBaPBBM (edited)

Microsoft Windows 98 Startup Sound

EdwinEchoXVI

Better Windows 98 startup sound. More fit with the period when The Matrix was out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tajDxBaPBBM (edited)

Oh yeah! That is even better.

And when you’re jacking in you hear sounds of the dial up modem connecting.

Kernel

And when you’re jacking in you hear sounds of the dial up modem connecting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsNaR6FRuO0

William Termini

The Sound of dial-up Internet

1

20:49

As a dial-up user up until 2007 - I remember.

Missing the sounds of your parents yelling at you to get off the computer because they were waiting on a phone call

Yeah. Going online only between 10 PM and 1 AM because of the phone. (edited)

Remeber to put *70 and a comma before the ISP's phone number to disable call waiting so that stupid beep doesn't mess with your connection

1

Anyone ever wonder if agents are fully programs? Was Smith the sole exception of a sentient program going rogue, or does jumping in and out of bluepill RSI's leave some of the bluepill code embedded in the agent? So that over time, they become slightly more human? (edited)

Smith is an exception

12:22

He’s basically the Anti-One

12:22

The fact that he was more human than the other was because he started to want more

12:23

He hated humanity because he felt he was turning into us (edited)

12:23

Neo overriding his code was the last drop

12:24

So yeah agents are 100% programs but the machines didn’t think that, with time and when in contact with The One, one of them would get influenced and turn into a virus (edited)

12:24

I don’t think the other Ones had a Smith to fight

12:24

And I don’t think Neo would have gotten a truce with the Machines without him

12:25

So, in a way, by putting both worlds into chaos, he ended the war

12:25

I wonder if he would be proud of himself with that ego of his

I think the Oracle tampered with his code, but that’s head canon. I have read nothing to suggest that.

13:50

But he and Neo trading code definitely altered him, big time. He became more human and Neo became more machine.

13:52

Interesting about Bluepill code staying with him. My first reaction to that notion is, probably not. Because he is supposed to do that, he is coded in a way to do that and minimize altering the code and disrupting the status quo

13:53

But after Neo and he traded code, Definitely. Oracle said something about it in the Installation sound bite (MxO installation)

He was “turning” human before Neo penetrated (

) him

13:54

Like removing his earpiece or getting mad at Morpheus

13:55

He gets very desperate to get the Zion code and desperation is not really a Machine thing

esp since they're purpose built and 'if zion is destroyed there's no need for me to be here' would mean deletion for any other machine

I attribute that to Oracle programming. Smith is essentially a catalyst for Neo to become the Once. Later, he is a catalyst for the Machines to need Neo. Oracle’s dangerous game.

14:03

Now, factoring in MxO’s non-canon explanation of Neo and Trinity’s powers; they have programs in them: interface and Prime programs. Smith has something similar?

More like he was a software with certain level of autonomy that slowly becoming self aware. He already started experiencing some of it in the first film. When he became "exiled" and unplugged it's just became more easy. Upgraded agents from Reloaded were lacking this flaw. And in previous five cycles events, presiding entrance in the Architect room, probably, didn't play out the same way we see in the sixth one. (edited)

Ouranos

And I don’t think Neo would have gotten a truce with the Machines without him

If we follow the story prior: Machines always tried to contact humans before whole "extermination" part. In case of Neo in sixth incarnation: he was the first man who personally came to Machines for negotiations. It was logical for main Machine to listen him out first and asses everything. (edited)

Like the oracle said… smith is the other side of the equation; the system following its programming to maintain a balance. My thought is that in the 6th iteration, the machines tried something new based off of previous lessons learned. It went too far, Smith happened to balance what they planned for Neo. How much of that was the oracle’s doing vs the machines’ iterating through a new idea?

‍♂️ probably a healthy bit of both. Machines laid the foundation and the oracle exploited it.

14:40

This whole thing wouldn’t have been a problem if the stupid humans would just accept the matrix and live out their lives in the digital world. Just be happy damnit!

One thing that has always interested me is the Machine War. Depicted in the second Renaissance

21:24

Absolutely terrifying stuff

It is. Part 1 & 2 are my fave episodes

@Rhinous I find the machine war beautifully mytho-poetic.

1:53

it is such a bittersweet end to a disgusting orgy of human ignorance and greed.

2

1:53

an incredible work of art, it deserves to be in the library of congress if it isn't already.

2

Kernel

Like the oracle said… smith is the other side of the equation; the system following its programming to maintain a balance. My thought is that in the 6th iteration, the machines tried something new based off of previous lessons learned. It went too far, Smith happened to balance what they planned for Neo. How much of that was the oracle’s doing vs the machines’ iterating through a new idea?

‍♂️ probably a healthy bit of both. Machines laid the foundation and the oracle exploited it.

Oracle was a program on par with Architect. Smith, even as rogue program, was still incapable to absorb her completely. Oracle didn’t exploit anything. Just assessed that situation is 50/50 and picked the second option.

She was most assuredly a control.

1:28

She exploited human emotion and the drive for a savior. Exploited the blind spots of the architect.

Kernel

She exploited human emotion and the drive for a savior. Exploited the blind spots of the architect.

Not exploited. In 50/50 situation she opted for a second option where human factor comes on play. Risky move, but it was allowed by constraints. Oracle also logical program, where her programming allows some things Architect is not allowed, since his coding is all about the equations.

10:21

P.S. Also, I've read somewhere before: "eat a cookie" = "allow cookies". (edited)

EdwinEchoXVI

P.S. Also, I've read somewhere before: "eat a cookie" = "allow cookies". (edited)

It’s just a cookie. And you don’t typically allow cookies after you’ve done everything you need to do on the site you’re visiting.

Gami

It’s just a cookie. And you don’t typically allow cookies after you’ve done everything you need to do on the site you’re visiting.

But... cookies were for allowing data collection. After all, you can say she went only with "read-only mode" prior.

16:12

One way or another, not trying to prove here anything staunchly. Just find it amusing.

Seraph is a Captcha

Ouranos

Seraph is a Captcha

Makes sense.

You do not truly know someone until you make them choose the tiles containing bicycles.

1

breathtaking

1

They really should've given Bane one of those tests.

Which makes Merovingian... a ransomware?

20:47

No surprise he was "exiled". Hard to get rid of. (edited)

bitbomb

You do not truly know someone until you make them choose the tiles containing bicycles.

At least he doesn't ask you do this: https://i.ibb.co/6wqNRVr/Screenshot-2023-08-14-at-8-40-27-PM.png (edited)

Embedded image

21:02

17 times.

21:03

And his "capcha" doesn't fail if you succeed and doesn't ask you "Please, try again." (edited)

I think I just caught something, is Cypher called Mr Reagan? Or am I just not hearing Smith correctly.

0:30

"I wanna be someone famous, like an actor" has a while different meaning

Nic Der Hund

I think I just caught something, is Cypher called Mr Reagan? Or am I just not hearing Smith correctly.

Yeah, no hint at his bluepill first name but Smith addresses him as Mr. Reagan. I always thought '...someone important, like an actor' was all there was to the joke, but who knows, maybe it's also reference to Ronald Reagan? Never took it that way tho. (edited)

bitbomb

Yeah, no hint at his bluepill first name but Smith addresses him as Mr. Reagan. I always thought '...someone important, like an actor' was all there was to the joke, but who knows, maybe it's also reference to Ronald Reagan? Never took it that way tho. (edited)

Watching with Croixa and I finally heard the last name correctly. That's how I took it

Interesting, I always thought it was just coincidence, but then again there's not a ton of coincidence in The Matrix

0:40

I just dug the tasteful (imo) breaking the fourth wall moment

It’s definitely a ref to Reagan

6:52

the name
« I want to be an actor »
« I want to forget everything » (Reagan suffered from Alzheimer’s)

(edited)

6:54

Reagan was crucial in the spread of AIDS in the US so I’m not really surprised queer directors hate him

He also allowed the CIA and NSA to spy on the people

7:17

Also he was an FBI informant when he was still an actor (edited)

7:17

Too many coincidences

Oh damn, I completely forgot about Reagan's involvement with the un-american activities committee

I think you're overthinking it.

Ah yes, the Wachowskis are famous for never overthinking what they put in Matrix movies

‍♂️

Ouranos

Ah yes, the Wachowskis are famous for never overthinking what they put in Matrix movies

‍♂️

"It's all about the Pentiums, baby."

does this video remind u guys of anything?

20:58

Image attachment

𝐁𝐫𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐬

does this video remind u guys of anything?

So that's how it actually started...

Ig we haven't realized we're not living in the matrix

22:34

We're in the second Renaissance

3

I have a question. Was Architect simply running Matrix with with the same code for every cycle or was he iteratively improving it using data collected during Matrix runtime, steadily reducing rejection rate?

kotenok2000

I have a question. Was Architect simply running Matrix with with the same code for every cycle or was he iteratively improving it using data collected during Matrix runtime, steadily reducing rejection rate?

He is continually trying to perfect the matrix and is actively trying to remove the entire need for “The One”. He’s just really bad at that last point since he’s failed six times over. It’s not clear how these improvements are made since we don’t have any information on the cycles before Neo and what might have changed. But we can see that programs like Agents are upgraded and the nature of older programs breaking down or being replaced is probably the closest we have on understanding how he maintains and upkeeps the simulation. (edited)

Gami

He is continually trying to perfect the matrix and is actively trying to remove the entire need for “The One”. He’s just really bad at that last point since he’s failed six times over. It’s not clear how these improvements are made since we don’t have any information on the cycles before Neo and what might have changed. But we can see that programs like Agents are upgraded and the nature of older programs breaking down or being replaced is probably the closest we have on understanding how he maintains and upkeeps the simulation. (edited)

I remember reading that first version of the matrix was a very peaceful world but it made the inhabitants feel too suspicious to the point they just broke out of curiosity to see what was on the other side.

12:48

And one of the other versions of the matrix involves vampires hunting humans hence why they appear in enter the matrix

You didn’t read it, Smith talk about the first versions of the Matrix in the first movie and vampires/werewolves appear in Reloaded, not just ETM (edited)

13:16

First version of the Matrix is probably where Seraph comes from

13:16

And Merv probably comes from the second

13:16

The Oracle probably arrived last funny enough (edited)

Do you think Animarix episode "A Detective Story" takes place in one of previous matrix iterations that rendered everything in monochrome? (edited)

That would mean there is a monochrome only version of Trinity

If it’s canonical at all it’s just a stylized version of the trilogy’s matrix. Same for World Record and Beyond.

Oh yeah I was kidding and I hope the question was a joke too

can redpillers "hack" the way they appear in the matrix? I assume so because of the gear they wear and id assume online goes a bit deeper on that

23:02

and then of course theres that thing they were originally gonna do with Switch

23:04

ok ill just skip to the point and wonder that if werewolves exist as exiles then how many redpillers would have fursonas

scr0ngli

ok ill just skip to the point and wonder that if werewolves exist as exiles then how many redpillers would have fursonas

Merovingian has a lot of deviants at his parties, so... "leather Easter-rabbits" is a possibility?

scr0ngli

can redpillers "hack" the way they appear in the matrix? I assume so because of the gear they wear and id assume online goes a bit deeper on that

For what I'm aware: this part can be done only by programs. And most of them from second iteration of the Matrix, since it was grotesque representation of human horrors. (edited)

No. No it wasn’t. “Thus, I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature.” Archie says he based it off HISTORY and the scene emphasizes this by putting up several shots of real events, people, and moments in our time. No vampires werewolves ghost or goblins found at all. The “grotesque” comment is about human nature. The second matrix looked like our world, looked like the matrix the movies take place in. Not some hellscape of demons and monsters. (edited)

17:09

Old exiles that look and act like monsters are just programs hacking the matrix and the matrix not being able to properly present the data that’s interacting with it. Oracle: Of course you have. Every time you’ve heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you’ve ever heard about vampires, werewolves, or aliens is the system assimilating some program that’s doing something they’re not supposed to be doing. No one ever sat down and wrote a “vampire” program for the system.

But why do silver bullets work on werewolves in matrix? Why did matrix load random program with werewolf traits including deadly silver allergy?

Because the term “silver bullet” is a colloquial phrase for any simple or easy solution for a difficult problem. Persephone even says as much when she refers to Cain and Abel as “notoriously difficult to terminate”. Yes it’s referencing old folklore where silver was believed to be pure and holy and thus could be used against any satanic monstrosity. It’s not just werewolves though. It’s also vampires (mirror are made with silver so no reflection), and witches. IE these are problems from the devil and only something holy can remove them. But in neither case is the phrase literal. And the movies do not take it that way either. Neo kills a small unit of them without a single gun let alone silver. Seraph, Morpheus, and Trinity also kill off plenty of them in club Hel one by snapping its neck and another through blunt force. Then you have the standoff scene which makes no sense without silver. If everyone in that room except Trinity and company has this weird silver bullet glitch why is her standoff with all of them enough to persuade the Merv to give up on keeping Neo on lockdown? No one except Trinity and Morpheus are in danger. As for why, it’s as the Oracle explained, these old programs are not compatible with the current Matrix so the matrix does its best to figure out something and all kinds of weird stuff happens, like exiles that can turn themselves intangible, or another that can copy and paste itself on everything. (edited)

kotenok2000

But why do silver bullets work on werewolves in matrix? Why did matrix load random program with werewolf traits including deadly silver allergy?

More like “silver bullet” is a piece of the code that can delete ‘em… or shut them down for the time being. (edited)

I just realised a little bit of ambiguity on my part that I wasn't aware of before. What does everyone think about when Smith says to that one of his clones at the start of Reloaded, "It's happening exactly as before." - is he referring to the previous Ones or to his and Neo's last confrontations back in 1?

Previous cycles.

How does Smith knows about the previous cycles though? Agents seem pretty clueless in Reloaded, trying to catch the keymaker like he’s not supposed to exist even though he’s part of the big plan

0:35

It could also be interpreted as “I see agents are still trying to catch the redpills (or just Neo), same old same old, but this time things are gonna be different because of me” (edited)

Knowledge gained after exile would be my assumption. The line I think is meant to foreshadow the cycle reveal. Much like the Merovingians “survives your predecessors”

0:51

If the line is just commenting on agents fighting redpills the start of it “that went as expected” covers that meaning itself. No need to continue the train of thought

Can someone further explain the theory put forward by YouTuber Matrix Explained, where he says he thinks that the primary reason for the humans being kept in pods isn't to be a power source, but to provide data for training the simulation model so that it doesn't collapse in on itself? (Last dark lie of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nTBdWbMQ-w) If their only need for us is to train a model merely to keep us enslaved, why don't they just slaughter us and be done with it, or what is the new AI that they need to create to keep themselves going? I feel like I answered my own question while writing this out... they want to keep evolving, so they need our spontaneity and creativity to keep their development from collapsing in on itself, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts on the concept. (edited)

Matrix Explained

The Matrix's 7 Darkest Lies, Finally Revealed! | MATRIX EXPLAINED

Pretty sure this guy makes his content using ChatGPT and buys views (edited)

@Vesuveus since you’re the YouTube guy, what do you think of Matrix Explained? (edited)

Ouranos

@Vesuveus since you’re the YouTube guy, what do you think of Matrix Explained? (edited)

I would click on that link, but I already stepped in dog shit this week.

3

18:03

Nice to meet you too

18:13

Welcome to the Desert of the "Real" (edited)

Nothing against you, I just don’t think much of ME. Haven’t watched since Resurrections released.

Akashascosset

Can someone further explain the theory put forward by YouTuber Matrix Explained, where he says he thinks that the primary reason for the humans being kept in pods isn't to be a power source, but to provide data for training the simulation model so that it doesn't collapse in on itself? (Last dark lie of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nTBdWbMQ-w) If their only need for us is to train a model merely to keep us enslaved, why don't they just slaughter us and be done with it, or what is the new AI that they need to create to keep themselves going? I feel like I answered my own question while writing this out... they want to keep evolving, so they need our spontaneity and creativity to keep their development from collapsing in on itself, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts on the concept. (edited)

I enjoy his videos. If I get around to finishing that one anytime soon I will let you know what my thoughts are on that part

1

Akashascosset

Can someone further explain the theory put forward by YouTuber Matrix Explained, where he says he thinks that the primary reason for the humans being kept in pods isn't to be a power source, but to provide data for training the simulation model so that it doesn't collapse in on itself? (Last dark lie of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nTBdWbMQ-w) If their only need for us is to train a model merely to keep us enslaved, why don't they just slaughter us and be done with it, or what is the new AI that they need to create to keep themselves going? I feel like I answered my own question while writing this out... they want to keep evolving, so they need our spontaneity and creativity to keep their development from collapsing in on itself, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts on the concept. (edited)

Machines are using humans not only as the power source, but also as an opportunity to analyze humans in general. One of the shorts in Animatrix pointed at that. (edited)

Vesuveus

Nothing against you, I just don’t think much of ME. Haven’t watched since Resurrections released.

I haven't watched any Matrix content at all since Resurrections released lol.

CorruptedRSI

I haven't watched any Matrix content at all since Resurrections released lol.

That’s when I started to drop off. I’m just very busy lately. Don’t even get to upload much.

What was the name of the missions/events where you could visit previous iterations of the Matrix. Also I vaguely remember you could also fight robots in what I assumed was a representation of the outside world during the war

2:23

Nvm I remembered: archived constructs

Weren't the Tengu of Sakura and Yuki were the Agents of their time, weren't they?

This is a channel about Matrix lore, not The Matrix Online

Geo

Weren't the Tengu of Sakura and Yuki were the Agents of their time, weren't they?

I don’t remember that. Those were the Feudal Japan eras. According to the Pandora’s Box quests, the Monks were agents of that system.

14:33

We know the Angels, Monks and Commandos were Agents of their versions, and the Commandos were replaced with the Secret Service type Agents.

Aren’t the commandos sentinels who exiled after the Truce?

18:05

Like The General

Yeah the commandos were the AI of the Sentinels whose physical bodies were shutdown due to the truce. Their AIs escaped into the Matrix to avoid being deleted and to try and reignite the war in the hope that they would be reactivated to their original functions

The only pre-Agents I know of are the Seraphims

21:08

I don’t remember the lore behind Sakura and Yuki though

Ouranos

Aren’t the commandos sentinels who exiled after the Truce?

Yes, those commanders and elite commandos are sent us the other commandos from box or former agents

Image attachment

Image attachment

YouTube has been recommending a bunch of simulation theory videos lol

4:11

Wonder if we get a simulation reset once humans recognize the simulation..

Wait… maybe the matrix movies are the integral anomaly that starts the reset process!

Kernel

Wonder if we get a simulation reset once humans recognize the simulation..

During the last decade many try to prove a notion that trends can be cultivated and enforced, hence the concern.

You know what I wondered? How was Zion explained to the 23 individuals that The One free'd from The Matrix after he reinserts the Prime Program. "Hey look, an ancient ruins that just so happen to have everything we need to live in The Real. Boy that sure is convenient."

My guess is that The One tell them a lie

9:34

Maybe he has to give them the redpill before they end up in the real world

It was my understanding that ‘the one’ for the cycle woke them up and said “hey I rescued you, let’s go fight the machines and rescue more.”

23:39

What was always sort of vague for me though was getting the cone convinced to actually do the whole thing. Probably a threat that everyone will be killed if they didn’t. As the architect said “there are levels of risk we are prepared to accept”

It’s fun to know that Tank, Dozer, all those guys come from one of those 23 people

23:43

How many are actually consanguine?

23:43

Gotta have a lot cousin marriages in there

Akashascosset

Can someone further explain the theory put forward by YouTuber Matrix Explained, where he says he thinks that the primary reason for the humans being kept in pods isn't to be a power source, but to provide data for training the simulation model so that it doesn't collapse in on itself? (Last dark lie of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nTBdWbMQ-w) If their only need for us is to train a model merely to keep us enslaved, why don't they just slaughter us and be done with it, or what is the new AI that they need to create to keep themselves going? I feel like I answered my own question while writing this out... they want to keep evolving, so they need our spontaneity and creativity to keep their development from collapsing in on itself, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts on the concept. (edited)

this guy constantly reposts the same theorie and is desperate for the smallest details

5:55

appreciate the dedication, but bro needs something else to do

1

5:55

pretty much summed up or concluded everything there is about the matrix

I respect coming six months late to shit on matrix explained.

I respect that since I dislike the channel myself here have a thumbs up

Gami

I respect coming six months late to shit on matrix explained.

Really lol

14:21

I haven't used this server in a long ass time so I'm just barely returning here

𝐁𝐫𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐬

this guy constantly reposts the same theorie and is desperate for the smallest details

He also made an 8 minute video about Persephone kissing Neo and other stuff. It's like stretching out gum untill you can't regonise it anymore and try to reshape it so you can sell it at the vending machine. It lost all it's meaning how small or big it was and is now unregonisable.

14:54

Aka the dude has to stretch anything out and reimagines the scenes etc.

14:54

I can do the same and earn money that way as well.

At the very least you can tell whats made for passion and whats made for money. I think the biggest thing is that while one is supposed to think about the subtext and subtlness of the Matrix and its points at time, it does no good to be this finecomb over art that wasnt made to be examined as such. That you miss the hills for the trees.

18:39

I think back to the Silent Hill franchise. 2 is the most popular game, and people have dumped days and weeks into trying to figure out the meaning of in games notes, and flavor text to try to wrap it all into some grandiose narrative design. About 5 or 6 years ago when the lead translator and localizer of the game was asked about that and specific minute details about whether characters who are one offs have split personality or multiple personality disordered he goes "who the hell cares? It was just a creepy voice on a phone." Going on to explain that what made that scene what it was, was the actor trying something the writers didnt think about, and it sounded better then what they had planned so they went with it. Then going on to explain how all of this flavor text was done last minute and rushed as there wasnt too much thought given to any of it. That in terms of time spent it was maybe 5% on how that flavor text would fit into the game as a whole.

18:40

So in trying to decipher every little thing, every possible meaning or ref, they tend to forget that theyre supposed to zoom out and take it all in as an experience, as a piece of art. And since there are folks like that, sadly, dudes can make lore videos that dont actually give much, decades later, all just to make money of of those that would watch them.

1

You are actually right on that. I believe even the Wachowski's openly admitted that, when they watched the original movie, some of the details they put there were unintentionaly. And how could they if they themselves worked on it? It was all a team effort, could you imagine some of the fight scenes without the music or some little things like Persephony kissing Neo without the scenes before that? It gives less meaning. Unfortuntely some people just take things apart for money but it happens.

You’re mixing quotes. From a chat Q&A on the old matrix website the Wachowskis were asked about the references they put in. calla: There are quite a few hidden messages in the movie that I notice the more I watch it. Can you tell me about how many there are? WachowskiBros: There are more than you’ll ever know. So there is intentionality behind a lot of what is in the films. And normally when asked for specifics the Wachowskis will talk about them. They’re very open about their inspirations and the movies themselves will frequently just outright tell you what’s being built off of. The “unintentional” quote was from Lilly talking about the trans parallels.

You confirmed last year that The Matrix was always a trans allegory —

[Wachowski shakes her head]

You didn’t?

I did this interview and the question that preceded that answer was about a character in The Matrix called Switch. But the interviewers decided to put, “Is The Matrix a trans allegory?” in front of my answer. It's not something that I want to come out and rebut. Like, yes, it's a trans allegory — it was made by two closeted trans women, how can it not be?! But the way that they put that question in front of my answer, it seems like I’m coming out emphatically saying, “Oh yeah, we were thinking about it the whole time.”

I find this obsession with something that isn't there quite disturbing and stupid. It's akin to the game that was just about playing peeps, starting families with friendships and fooling with furniture becoming treated as some "social critique of rampant consumerism in late stage capitalism". (edited)

1

I think it’s mostly our tendency toward confirmation bias to find meaning in everything and to see patterns that aren’t really there. We do that with almost everything: religion, science, language, and so on. I also think the way we’re shaped by media and our surroundings affects how we interpret things. I could literaly write an review about something but someone who grew up in New York City would probably see it very differently from someone in Europe, like the Netherlands.

15:28

Another example if you are part of a political movie critic group you might find "political meanings" that aren't there and dissect it for all the wrong purposes... ugh you know what I mean

I think denying intention, especially when reference is invoked and purpose explained in and out of the piece by an artist, is lazy and close minded. (edited)

If we follow that idea, then there's socio-political undertones in Teletubbies. Someone has to spent 10 hours dissect them, then. But to be serious: it's all about the Pentiums in the Matrix, it's not that heavy. And we don't have much the Matrix content to enjoy, but easy to dive in since all stuff long past clearance and cheap to get. (edited)

You’re not following the idea. Teletubbies doesn’t overtly connect to an outside idea its claimed to be invoking. The Matrix frequently does. That is the point you are missing. (edited)

Exported 8,768 message(s)

Timezone: UTC+1